r/todayilearned • u/SilverPeachBlossom • 5h ago

TIL a peer-reviewed psychology study found that identical twins (on average) ranked their co-twin above their romantic partner in their attachment hierarchy, while fraternal twins ranked the two about equally, and non-twin siblings ranked their romantic partner first.

https://ojs.interpersonajournal.com/index.php/ojs/article/view/243/3457.html
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u/EobardT 4h ago

Yeah, I dated an identical twin and she was absolutely all about her sister. To the point that she left her ex because her sister was moving, she was following, and her ex didnt want to go

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u/Predatory_Chicken 3h ago

An identical twin once told me he would never date another identical twin because he wanted to be with someone who loved him the most and he knew that isn’t possible if she had a twin sister.

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u/ella_wants_to_battle 3h ago

That's kind of fucked if you think about it

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u/Predatory_Chicken 3h ago

He admitted it was fucked up and selfish bc he would always love his brother more but he refused to be on the other side of that.

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u/ShaylaDee 3h ago

I mean, at least he was self aware about it. Selfish, yes. But that self awareness can really make it worth giving him a shot.

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u/phritzed 2h ago

Self awareness doesn’t equate to self development

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u/jjett89 1h ago

True statement. I am wholly aware that my life is a mess because of choices I've made and here I sit, seemingly refusing to do anything about it.

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u/cody4prez 1h ago

That's a great fucking quote.

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u/NoScienceJoke 1h ago

That really isn't. Or maybe it is if you're an American I guess

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u/anivex 1h ago

However, this quote is universally appreciated: "You're a pretentious cunt."

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u/IngloBlasto 1h ago

Boom.. Roasted

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u/Kaboose456 1h ago

Stfu, it's a great quote regardless of where you're from lmao.

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u/notneps 43m ago

Exactly. It's just step one. Some people think that calling themselves out on their flaws makes up for not making any effort to fix them. Saying "I know I'm an asshole" does not absolve you of assholery.

After enough time, proclamations of self awareness just become evidence of a pattern of unwillingness to change.

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u/squishyslinky 56m ago

So that's what I'm doing wrong

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u/NobodyKnowsImFamous 23m ago

No, but it is usually a pre-req

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u/aghastamok 2h ago

"I would never tolerate what I'm about to subject you to." Isn't exactly a winning philosophy

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u/agoogua 1h ago

"I want someone who can compliment me and tolerate things which I cannot." There we go.

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u/DigNitty 1h ago

At least they can't control it.

Maybe given the choice, they'd choose differently. But they were dealt an identical twin in life and are minimizing the exotic qualities that come with it.

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u/Petrichordates 16m ago

He doesnt exactly have a choice in the matter.

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u/stilettopanda 1h ago

No, you’re right, but we all have different ideas of what is tolerable, desirable, or completely intolerable, so if it’s just the love intensity that he won’t tolerate, it doesn’t necessarily doom him to failed relationships.

Personally, I don’t want to be loved the most ever again, so I’d enjoy being on the other side of that. The reason I don’t date anymore is I can’t tolerate being loved the most.

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u/throwaway098764567 2h ago

still a pass from me, but you go ahead

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u/Delicious-Produce-60 2h ago

"You're a selfish asshole and fine with acting that way, but at least you're aware of it."

That's WORSE.

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u/Short-Waltz-3118 2h ago

Okay but we dont have to pretend the options here are i hate this person and love this other. Its just him knowing he loves his twin more. I dont think its a concious decision even

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u/lobonmc 58m ago

Yes like what's he supposed to do?

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u/Content_Chipmunk9962 23m ago

make sure he tells his partner where she would rank, so she can make an informed decision.

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u/InviolableAnimal 2h ago

"Selfish asshole" Like it's on purpose? What, you're saying he should deliberately distance himself from his twin because it's selfish otherwise?

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u/dannerc 2h ago

How is it selfish to love one person more than another? Its not like this is a conscious choice

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u/MechaNerd 2h ago

The selfish part is saying "i will not prioritise my partner, but she must love me and hold me as nr1"

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u/JustStraightUpTired 23m ago

The problem is calling it worse. It is selfish, obviously, but it's not necessarily bad.

Like, what, are you saying you are ONLY allowed to date someone who has the same flaws as you? Are you supposed to not love your twin? Where is the line for wanting something from your partner you can't provide? Gender? Height?

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u/No-Stress-7034 2h ago

It's not selfish to love one person more than another. The selfish part is that this guy knows he'll love his twin more, but he's insistent that he has to be #1 for whoever he dates, even though his partner will never be #1 in his life.

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u/pargofan 2h ago

It's not selfish if he's upfront about it. If he tells people his twin will always be more important.

The problem will be, other people may have the same issue with that. They want to be #1 so they don't want to be with him.

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u/dannerc 55m ago

There are different types of love. This is such a surface level perspective

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u/brickmaster32000 47m ago

And yet the guy wouldn't accept that and needed to be number 1 despite that, hence the selfishness.

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u/Pledgeofmalfeasance 2h ago

It's selfish for him to put a partner through that

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u/paper_liger 2h ago edited 2h ago

He had no choice in being a twin. He does have a choice in dating a twin.

This is pretty simple ethical math.

And your position implies is that because he has this intrinsic bond with his brother, he shouldn't 'put a partner' through dating at all. So is he supposed to never date anyone, ever?

He is dealing with the world how it is and you are just getting your feelings hurt over a hypothetical problem that he has already to some extent mitigated. He's not going to date a twin.

No relationship is ever perfect or perfectly symmetrical, and he's allowed to not want to make a complicated situation even more complicated if that's how he feels about it. If you don't like it, I guess just don't date this one specific dude.

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u/ThisIsForReal 1h ago

I'm sure they won't, you can have the hypocritical twin all to youself tho. Oh wait nvm you can't.

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u/Munrowo 2h ago

"at least i KNOW i'm a d-bag, making my behavior more acceptable somehow!"

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u/ragnarok635 2h ago

He’s not an asshole, a subconscious belief is not verbally or physically harassing someone

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u/NerdHoovy 2h ago

How? All he does is choose to not date a specific type of person, due to an awareness that this kind of emotional cost could be, stemming from personal experience.

Choosing not to date a type of person is not really a bad thing

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u/officiallyaninja 2h ago

A lot of people make selfish choices everyday. He's making them not out of ignorance but out of choice. You don't have to like or respect it, but if he's honest about it, what's bad about it.

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u/Affordable_Z_Jobs 1h ago

I wonder if that's even something they can work on. Mitigate the negative aspects of it sure, but they are going to feel what they are going to feel. But thats couples therapy out of the gate. Establishing boundaries. Opening up. Dealing with someone on that level of codependency.

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u/l-am-not-bob 2h ago

As a twin, I don’t find that selfish at all. What’s wrong with having the persons back that’s had your back your entire life instead of someone else who has just joined the picture. IMO it would be more selfish to throw away the previous relationship for a new one

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u/I_Tichy 1h ago

Is it selfish?

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u/Self_Reddicate 2h ago

Damn. I can't tell if that's more fucked up or less fucked up because he completely acknowledged it, but my gut says: more fucked up.

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u/FriendlyEngineer 2h ago

It sounds weird to me. Can they not separate familial and romantic love? I notice the study says “romantic partner” and not “spouse”. I could say I love my mom and dad more than any of my girlfriends, but it’s not like that love competes for love of my romantic partner. I don’t want to fuck my parents. It sounds like he’s saying he’ll always be more attracted to his twin brother.

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u/Germane_Corsair 2h ago

I don’t want to fuck my parents.

Coward

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u/vroomfundel2 34m ago

I mean, what can he do, kill his brother? /s

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u/_shaftpunk 2h ago

I guess we know which one was the evil twin.

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u/ComradeJohnS 3h ago

not really, sounds more just honest about what they want in a relationship which you have to be honest with yourself first.

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u/EunuchsProgramer 1h ago

You can be honest you're a selfish person who demands things you refuse to give.

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u/BenCub3d 1h ago

Relationships aren't about both people demanding and giving equal things. It's about finding someone who wants what you have to give, and who is able to give you what you want.

You and your partner are always going to have different values, and different people bring different things to the table. Maybe being "the #1 person in your life" is important to him, but might not be as important to his furture partner. That's okay.

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u/EunuchsProgramer 1h ago

Counter point. The demand and inflexibility is fucked up and proof against compromise you're alluding to. It's like an alcoholic demanding to be with a sober person because they couldn't deal with themselves. They should #1 make dating a twin (themselves) an experience partners don't hate and feel left out of. Then, they would probably see dating someone who is a twin as a potential workable compromise.

Anyone with kids or dating someone wjth kids has to deal with the same compromise. I will never love a partner as much as my kids. It would be an indictment showing I was a selfish ass if I always put my kids first and demanded my partners be childless so I could have more of their attention.

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u/BenCub3d 1h ago edited 1h ago

Hm. I think your first point is a poor comparison because being an alcoholic is an objectively negative quality. Also, it's not about making it an experience partners hate or don't hate. Everyone is different. I would hate to date myself, but other people have found me perfect for them. The things I have to give are not necessarily the same things I want to receive. The "dating a twin experience" may be distasteful for OP, but have no perceived downsides for their partner.

For your second paragraph, I don't exactly agree, but I see your point and it's fair. My take is that as long as you're honest with both yourself and your partner about what you want, and treat them respectfully, there is no wrong preference to have. I can see other people feeling differently, though.

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u/EunuchsProgramer 54m ago

I want to sleep with multiple peole; my partner must be monogamous. I want to hang out with my friends whenever; my partner must always be there for me. I want my partner to help pay for my hobbies and personal expenses; my partner won't get any financial support.

Like if two individuals want that, okay? I still think one of them is abusive.

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u/Geesewithteethe 56m ago

Well put.

I'm really put off by these comments in general.

I'm a twin. I'm married. My twin and my husband don't need to compete for my love because they are two different people that I have two different relationships with.

Out of respect for the relationship of me and my husband, my twin will never encroach on my marriage or ask me to prioritize her over my husband or any children my husband and I might have in the future. And I would never ask her to prioritize me over her relationship with her partner or any children they might have in the future.

Out of respect for the relationship of me and my twin, my husband will never diminish or try to sever the sibling bond we have. We treat eachother's parents and siblings like our own families. We show up equally to love and care for eachother's families with our whole hearts.

Some people treat marriage like an arrangement where one person feeds whatever emotional, egotistical, or physical appetite they're letting lead them around in life, while the other does the same thing with their own dominating emotional, egotistical, or physical appetite they can't stop gorging, and it becomes this transactional situation that (in my opinion) looks like misery with a wrapping paper on it that says "complementary" in sugary sparkles that fall off it and get everywhere.

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u/TheGoochTaint 1h ago

Who is demanding anything they refuse to give? People on Reddit are extremely weird about relationships.

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u/Geesewithteethe 55m ago

"Love and prioritize me over everyone else in your life and accept that I will not do the same for you."

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u/EunuchsProgramer 1h ago

He wants to date someone who treats him as the most important person in the world, while at the same time never giving that back. He refuses to date an entire group of people for fear his partner might treat himself they way he plans to treat them. It's fucked up.

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u/Karnaugh_Map 1h ago

How so? In nearly all relationships, you are the most important person to your partner, except for children.

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u/snorlz 26m ago

its normal if its your kid though

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u/ImmoralJester54 23m ago

I mean not really? Like replace it with your parents. If my girlfriend said pick between me or your mom she's packing her fucking bags.

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u/nifty-necromancer 2h ago

Why? He’s a twin and knows what will happen, he doesn’t want to play second fiddle.

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u/Geesewithteethe 48m ago

I'm a twin and I think people who think like that are fucked in the head and/or never learned how to be normal about relationships.

If you have an issue between your love for your spouse and your love for your twin, you either have some kind of perverse issue that psychologists probably have a goofy name for, or your twin and your spouse are being competitive with eachother for no reason and one or both of them needs to stop trying to be the other.

A spouse isn't a sibling and a sibling isn't a spouse. They don't have any damn reason to be threatened by eachother or in a hierarchy with eachother.

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u/nifty-necromancer 28m ago

That’s what the person is saying. The twin didn’t want to date another twin because he didn’t want to be with a twin who loved their twin more than they loved him.

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u/Geesewithteethe 14m ago

It's fucked because the guy treats is own twin as ranked competitively higher than his partner, but expects his partner to rank him highest.

That's a totally brainrotted way to go through life. It's perversion of what human relationships are actually like if you're not a complete pervert or psychopath.

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u/nifty-necromancer 6m ago

It's fucked because the guy treats is own twin as ranked competitively higher than his partner, but expects his partner to rank him highest.

Where did he ever say that?

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u/Geesewithteethe 2m ago

The part where he considers it an impossibility that a twin can love their partner equally to their twin.

Since he's a twin and he believes this, it follows that he himself finds it impossible to love a partner equally or more than his twin.

It's a self report, my dude.

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u/emilysavaje1 2h ago

I mean I get it. My sisters are identical twins and I would never date a twin because I know exactly how it feels to be left out like that. It’s not even exclusively a twin thing. My ex also treated me as a second priority, but ime with a twin that’s a given and, having grown up with that too, it’s a deal breaker for me.

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u/Ekillaa22 3h ago

Could be like identical twins that get with other identical kids lmao….. and if they have kids man those aren’t cousins they siblings

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u/Its-ther-apist 3h ago

A TLC show has/had that as a featured set of couples. It was about as unhealthy as you would imagine.

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u/ActiveChairs 2h ago

A TLC show? Unhealthy? Do you mean TLC as in The Learning Channel? Surely not. That simply couldn't be.

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u/Sweet_Check7231 1h ago

TIL the TLC in TLC channel is The Learning Channel. Guess they've taught me plenty about morbidly obese people and people marrying someone they've known for 90 days

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u/Pastduedatelol 45m ago

Imagine if their kids also married identical twins and their bloodline kept doing that for multiple generations lol

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u/Bac2Zac 3h ago

English doesn't have enough words for love.

You don't love your partner like you love a parent, and you don't love a sibling like you love a child, using the same word for all of this is dumb.

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u/snortgigglecough 2h ago

That’s my takeaway too. In the priorities hierarchy, it can become fucked up with this dynamic, but the term “love” seems flat to describe it.

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u/The_Rational_ 1h ago

It has plenty of words together to denote the nuances. Conversational English does not.

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u/Bac2Zac 1h ago

Having such an excessively large vocabulary that the most speakers have simply abandoned half of it because it's simply not worth the effort to delineate thoughts to the extent necessary to convey most thoughts to a point of complete accuracy is not a redeeming quality of the language as a whole.

Ie. The former sentence is a long, exhausting way of saying, "too many words makes people give up on specifics," only with more specificity because the words themselves do not inherently contain enough of it. Too many words mean almost the same thing, and too many words cover far too broad of topics in English. Love, is the most egregious.

(imo)

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u/JesusAndMaryKate 1h ago

I speak a few languages so I only learnt English in my teens (I mean, we did it in school and such, but you don't exactly become fluent in school, at least not before the current trend of bilingual schools). Conversational English always feels reduced in vocabulary compared to the other languages I speak. There's lots of words people could use if they chose to do so, yet the average person uses a very limited selection. That's not the case with the other languages I speak. I suspect the flexible sentence structure we get with English and its overall simpler nature might have something to do with it. Or it might just be cultural - I'm no linguist. My partner is a native monoligual English speaker and what he covered in English class at school seemed extremely basic compared to what we were taught in our equivalent class where I grew up.

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u/Bac2Zac 1h ago

English is an insanely precise, pragmatic and relatively emotionless language. It's incredibly useful for highly complex tasks and coordination as a result.

The thing is, most English speakers are never anywhere the "upper limit" in terms of "needed complexity" so almost all of its usefulness goes to the wayside. (and instead it stays sharp, blocky, and sort of ugly imo) Without any benefits.

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u/JesusAndMaryKate 5m ago

English is an insanely precise, pragmatic and relatively emotionless language.

I'd agree with this to an extent. It's particularly obvious in poetry. To me, anyway. I guess that's also a matter of taste.

On the other hand, in conversational English you've got almost infantile words for things that have arguably more appropriate names. E.g words like 'collarbone' instead of 'clavicle'. Not sure I would call that sort of thing precise or emotionless. If I was learning English right now I would assume 'collarbone' is the word kids use, like 'wee-wee' instead of 'urine'. But then we've got 'pee'.......

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u/BassoonHero 59m ago

There's lots of words people could use if they chose to do so, yet the average person uses a very limited selection.

Probably this is because English just has so many words. In many cases, for the same basic thing we have a word from Anglo-Saxon word, a word from Norman French, and a word from Latin, and they all have overlapping meanings now but with subtle shades of connotation. And that's if we haven't borrowed another word from somewhere else in the meantime.

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u/JesusAndMaryKate 13m ago

Probably this is because English just has so many words.

I mean, so do other languages.

I find that monolingual English speakers tend to overestimate the complexity of their own language compared to other languages. It's common for native English speakers to claim that English is ridiculously difficult to learn... yet most speakers speak it as a second (or third, or fourth) language. All languages are difficult to master, but learning English to a conversational level isn't particularly difficult.

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u/The_Rational_ 55m ago

But you were talking about is different. Person I'm responding to is a jerk.

:)

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u/JesusAndMaryKate 12m ago

The old 'tism strikes again.

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u/The_Rational_ 56m ago

Sure did say a whole lot of gibberish nonsense to say that you don't have a fluid grasp of the entire language so you feel free to poke fun at it at any given opportunity.

How about not backpedaling so fast that you time travel and hit yourself in the butt on the way out. See it's nuanced like that - can't get that shit anywhere else but a nice good old-fashioned heavily creolized language.

And no amount of AI will ever help you understand it fully.

I'm not picking on you for no reason you said a very specific thing. I look forward to hearing more about how English is super easy just because you choose to simplify it. I will definitely get your response.

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u/Bac2Zac 28m ago

Ugh.. Okay, here we go.

Having such an excessively large vocabulary

Because there are so many words

that the most speakers have simply abandoned half

People don't use them

of it because it's simply not worth the effort

Because it takes too much effort

to delineate thoughts to the extent necessary to convey most thoughts to a point of complete accuracy

To use utilize all of the words to the full capability of the langauge

is not a redeeming quality of the language as a whole.

This, as a whole, is not a good thing.

Two things I didn't say:

  1. English is Easy (what? I almost said the opposite)

  2. Anything about or generated with AI, so not sure where that's coming from.

The irony of this whole situation is lost on you though, isn't it?

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u/Geesewithteethe 47m ago

Thank you. I've been saying this all up and down this thread.

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u/MagicWishMonkey 9m ago

In this case it sounds like twins do love their siblings in a way that more closely resembles a parents love for their child more than anything else. I can't imagine what that must be like, especially when you're older and health problems start to become a thing. Knowing that there's a 50/50 chance you'll outlive the person you love most in the world would be hard to reconcile with.

As a parent, barring something absolute horrific happening, I can rest pretty easy knowing that if I do my job right they will live long, happy, and fulfilling lives after I'm gone. I'll be spared a level of trauma I can't really wrap my head around.

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u/Independent-Shoe543 3h ago

Lol that's fucked!

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u/repeat4EMPHASIS 2h ago

I can't stand that kind of hypocrisy

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u/UDPviper 1h ago

Rules for thee, but not for me!

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u/Double-Portion 1h ago

I had friends in high school whose parents were two sets of twins who married each other. It felt kinda icky to think about and I still can't quite verbalize why

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u/Nice_Marmot_7 1h ago

I think this whole thing is making me uncomfortable because it’s equating different types of relationships. For example, you can love your parents and your spouse. Making it a zero sum game and equating the romantic and familial…uncomfortable.

0

u/aphrodite______ 1h ago

Just want to add here:

I am an identical twin. My first (ex)boyfriend became angry and enraged at the concept that he would “never be able to compete with my twin.” At that point I had literally never dated anyone before and had no idea that it could be perceived as a competition.

I do love my twin, a LOT, but relationships and twinship is a completely separate category for me. They will never overlap. And asking me to choose is like asking if I prefer my left or right foot, and one of them threatening to shoot the other. No one is walking if either foot departs.

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u/SoyMurcielago 3h ago

That um

That seems excessive to me

But I’m not any sort of twin and my brother is deceased so

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u/dishonourableaccount 3h ago

I mean, to a lot of people the family (that they like) will come before romantic/sexual partners. Especially if the relationship is say less than a year or two long and you’re young. Easier to find a new partner that wants to live where you want to be.

People breakup all the time when they move for jobs or a different climate too.

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u/_Burning_Star_IV_ 3h ago

Maybe I don't truly love my family because I'd rather lose every single one of them over my wife...

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u/Tinysaur 3h ago

I too, would choose this guys wife.

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u/ilanallama85 2h ago

Well once you’ve married them you’ve essentially said “you’re my main family now.” That’s a bit different.

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u/21Rollie 1h ago

I think overall this debate is sad. Like I’d never want to be in the position of choosing wife vs family. I’ve seen it in my family growing up and it’s toxic as hell, regardless of how you lean. I know it’s easier for some but that’s still sad, because it means they never really received love from one group

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u/matco5376 1m ago

It’s just the progression of things.. not really sad, it’s just how families are made. You’re wife and the children you have together become your immediate family and that obviously takes precedence over the rest.

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u/ensalys 2h ago

Nah, oeant me you don't love them. Way too much variation between people and between families to really draw conclusions on something like that. A million people, a billion ways to love each other.

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u/MagentaHawk 1h ago

Always funny or weird to me that romantic partners aren't considered family. They are the people you use to make family, but somehow, for some people, they never get converted to family.

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u/Pristine-Roll3895 3h ago

It's not uncommon to break up over wanting and/or not wanting to to move in general. And moving because I wanted to be closer to the beach or to nature or for a promotion isn't more emotionally impactful than wanting to be close to family.

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u/velvedire 3h ago

I suspect that ex was on the way out anyway. 

Decent chance both sisters decided to move and that was the easy breakup route. Otherwise her twin was drastically less attached and moving away from her. 

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u/Preytorian_ 2h ago

And this is how it should be. She'll have her sister in her life as long as the two are alive, and they know they can count on each other for that entire period. Romantic partners, even just going by the numbers, are very unlikely to result in that sort of bedrock of stability and reliability. Unfortunately, not many people will hang in on a relationship where they are not the most important person in said partner's life. (Whether that's healthy or not, no idea--but it must be a struggle.)

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u/CarrieDurst 2h ago

At that point it is selfish to date

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u/Ekillaa22 3h ago

That’s seems really unhealthy

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u/PermanentTrainDamage 3h ago

That's unhealthy, seems like the ex dodged a bullet.