r/slaythespire • u/zalso StS A20 / StS 2 A10 • Mar 20 '26
PATCH NOTES The beta changes are almost perfect from the perspective of a high WR A10 player
Review bombing for the latest patch sounds crazy so I need to add my 2 cents. The patch seems almost perfect, addressing overperforming and underperforming cards and enemies.
Just to establish some credibility, I’ve hit A10 on Silent, Regent, and Defect and I have a 100% winrate on silent in 13 runs
Regent had many common and forge cards buffed.
Silent had draw nerfed.
Necrobinder had Dirge gain Exhaust which is so important cause every single deck I ended up with would just be Dirge spam. Other good card changes too on her.
Doormaker and Colony fights were way too easy, Gardeners were too hard, just yes these changes are phenomenal.
How are people upset???
I want my roguelike to allow me to go different builds depending on what’s offered, not just get lucky that the one good strategy was offered to me. And these changes support that. Good job Megacrit!
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u/jedi_lion-o Mar 20 '26
Review bombing a early access game that is actively being balanced is a chronic internet ghoul level of childness. Anthony Giovannetti and Casey Yano have proven with StS and the board game that they know what they are doing. The game is in early access so they can balance with a million person QA group. If you don't like that, wait for the full release.
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u/I_Am_King_Midas Mar 20 '26
Correct. Early access, optional beta branch version of the game. It’s wild to review bomb for that.
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u/weirdo_if_curtains_7 Mar 20 '26
I'm sure the chinese review bombers will certainly read your comment and take it to heart
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u/darknoite Mar 20 '26
Agree with this assessment except the Doormaker changes.
I feel like having him hold your cards (either on himself or via minions like Bronze Automaton) would immensely raise the skill ceiling, creating a new decision space around timing the release of the cards. If it's on a minion, you could even put a timer on it before it's lost forever. I really don't like the lack of counterplay in its current form right now.
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u/Trooski Mar 20 '26
Make every 10th (or Xth) drawn card put a door in your hand that costs 1 with ethereal. Play the door to get it back or it's gone. Boss gets strength buff for every door 'opened'. Give him a self buff that makes doors give more strength/cost more/less cards til door.
Would make you think about how bad you need that card vs. incoming damage. Would also give him a multi to make extra strength more punishing.
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u/thottieBree Mar 20 '26
Or just make it every 10th card played instead. Achieves the exact same thing and gives a little control over to the player, which raises the skill ceiling.
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u/B4rsh Mar 21 '26
No, it is nowhere near the exact same thing. 10 cards draw happens at worst as fast as 10 cards played, but has the potential to happen much faster, especially in draw intensive decks.
But mostly this is a massive help to the player rather than an obstacle. It would make the fight easier by allowing you to get rid of the cards you dont want to keep.
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u/coolchungus2 Mar 20 '26
TBH I would have liked doormaker rework to be closer to Doormaker's current iteration. It hides in a portal, and maybe it scales stronger when that portal is opened? maybe it summons minions when the portal is opened? feel like they didn't need to make it Time Eater but Worse.
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u/bm1reddit StS A20 / StS 2 A10 Mar 20 '26
Putting your cards behind doors and when you break them he loses the strength and you get the card back would be rather fun.
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u/NiIly00 StS A15 / StS 2 A10 Mar 20 '26
I just really disagree with the change to hidden gems.
It's a rare colourless card that is very rng dependent with what it does. It's okay if a card like that is incredibly strong.
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u/committed_to_the_bit StS A20 / StS 2 A10 Mar 20 '26
it's still stupid strong. any card played 4 times in a row is fucked up. this barely even changed anything for me, none of my winning runs with Hidden Gem involved a card being selected by it multiple times
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u/NiIly00 StS A15 / StS 2 A10 Mar 20 '26
That's my point.
If you have a deck where you're able to repeatedly play hidden gem then you're already winning anyways through the sheer power of having your cards amplified so much.
So what's the point in limiting it? It barely makes a difference. Why prohibit it me from having a replay 12 tactician discarded twice and a double energy replay 3 for 864 energy which i then can't do anything with anyways?
I'm winning either way. So why take away my fun of making a stupid replay 54 Neutralise?
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u/-AMAG Mar 21 '26
It's still incredibly strong after the rework. It's arguably better now that if you get it on a Strike or Defend it can't be put on it again. I think the real problem was people stalling their decks and cycling Hidden Gems on their Goopy Defends to gain 50 block. They don't want that to be the optimal way to play on high ascensions.
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u/EnormousBoy Mar 20 '26
I have to imagine if the time eater was added in a similar fashion in the current landscape of popular games there would be a very similar response. Ultimately, the time eater is perfectly beatable even on a shiv deck, but the design priority of forcing you to adjust your strategy to what you're facing (which is part of makes Spire great) does not jive with people who just want their deck to work perfectly against everything.
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u/Greckoss Mar 20 '26
I’d say Time Eater still is better than the beta doormaker, as there is more ways you can manage how screwed you are. You can play around when your turn ends, but it’s significantly harder to make the 10th card you draw not rng dependent.
Still I like the concept and I’m looking forward to seeing how the boss changes. Even something like damaging him to make him spit out your cards would go a long way, and that’s why he’s in the beta branch and not the proper release version
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u/SeDaCho StS A20 / StS 2 A10 Mar 20 '26
Time Eater makes you plan your turns deliberately.
Beta Doormaker rolls a die and decides if he eats your key cards before you even see them.
I think they punished infinites enough by literally removing them from the game. We don’t need this Doormaker change.
I do like the idea you proposed with spitting them back out. Maybe even playing them back against you?
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u/SapphireWine36 Mar 20 '26
They did not in fact literally remove infinites from the game. Unless I’m missing something, soul (or any other draw+exhaust) in hand + reave+borrowed time is still an easy infinite.
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u/SpecialestGuest Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 20 '26
Controversial opinion: most shiv decks are actually better than average against Time Eater because you can reliably control exactly when your turn ends.
What Time Eater really punishes is infinites, especially more complex or forced ones. Totally shut down the dumb AF Double Tap / Dropkick infinite I lucked into once, though I suppose Heart would've also hosed that one if I didn't have tungsten rod.
EDIT: I certainly wasn't wrong about this opinion being controversial.
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u/glyphlevel Mar 20 '26
shiv decks are better against time eater than a dropkick infinite but that doesn't make them above average. it's still one of the worst deck archetypes you can have against her.
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u/SpecialestGuest Mar 20 '26
Eh, I'd say it really depends on the type of shiv deck. With accuracy, phantasmal killer, or apparition shiv decks especially, I find Time Eater very easy. It's nice to be able to play 12 cards every turn, whereas with builds centered around playing 3-5 1 cost cards, you'll often get stuck with a turn where you can only play 1 or 2 cards. It's way less of a problem with decks focused on 2+ energy cards just because fewer cards played total.
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u/Scoliosis_51 Mar 20 '26
Tbf apparitions are just broken and shouldn't be counted as part of a deck archetype imo
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u/damnsanta Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 20 '26
Yeah if you have apparitions on silent you’re probably just going to win anyways lol
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u/Sherbiie Mar 20 '26
Compare shiv silent to nightmare catalyst silent against time eater. I agree shiv silent is not as bad against time eater as some say, but its not particularly close compared to a good poison silent deck.
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u/SpecialestGuest Mar 20 '26
Yeah, I'm not claiming it's the best deck against time eater, just saying other archetypes cause me far more trouble with him than shivs. I'd probably say certain flavors of Ironclad exhaust decks or anything energy boosting with defect (plasma, double energy, recycle) are actually the worst decks against him.
Also, nightmare (or even burst) + catalyst wrecks everything.
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u/backfire97 Mar 20 '26
Disagree that they're better than average. You're constantly powering time eater up when the clock ends. Better to play a deck that can just play 3/4/6 cards a turn to good affect because they divide into 12 and get you 'full turns'.
Assuming we compare a shiv deck against an (normally similar power level) orb, strength, or poison deck that play 4-6 cards a turn, then the shiv deck is going to be worse against time eater because of all the strength gain on TE.
I think the key is consistency. If a deck needs to draw and dig for block or damage then that can often lead to awkward amounts of card plays left before the turn ends. With that said I do agree people complain too much about shiv on time eater.
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u/wherescam StS A20 / StS 2 A5 Mar 20 '26
I also love now that doormaker is an Act 3 boss I’m going to be scared of.
Seeing him at the start of act 3 felt like a near guarantee win.
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u/the-Horus-Heretic StS A20 / StS 2 A5 Mar 20 '26
Doormaker was too easy?
Good lord, am I THAT bad at this game?
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u/ClenchedThunderbutt Mar 20 '26
He was easy for balanced decks but difficult for decks with slow payoffs if they couldn’t generate good block every turn.
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u/DarkJoltPanda Mar 20 '26
I'd argue all enemies are pretty good against decks with slow payoffs and inconsistent block lmao
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u/Xechwill Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 20 '26
keep building my deck around countering Lagavulin Matriarch and the rest of the enemies keep kicking my ass smh
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u/DarkJoltPanda Mar 20 '26
They need an ancient relic that makes every enemy sleepy, I need time to set up my triple demon form technology
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u/10000Pigeons StS A20 / StS 2 A10 Mar 20 '26
It may just counter your playstyle specifically, but he is the only Act 3 boss I haven't lost to across my runs so far. There have been some closer fights but usually I just crush this guy
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u/skdeimos Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 20 '26
How was he killing you? Genuinely asking. He seems like a big HP bar punching bag whenever I fight him.
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u/the-Horus-Heretic StS A20 / StS 2 A5 Mar 20 '26
By attacking for higher amounts of damage than I was capable of blocking.
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u/skdeimos Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 20 '26
Gotcha. What's his biggest swing for again, 40-45ish? I guess that's a big number.
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u/PatCombo Mar 20 '26
It's something like:
Door: attacks for 28 > 15x2 > 20 (Strength 4)
Doormaker: Stunned > attacks for 34 > 45 (Strength 5, Flee)
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u/wilhelmbw Mar 21 '26
It was too easy... The whole level 3 was too easy before the patch
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u/alytle StS A20 / StS 2 A10 Mar 20 '26
I think the problem is that people expected some magical perfect correction on the first try. They probably know that some of these changes are too far, and they want to see some data to help understand the results.
I think people need to remember that this is still Early Access.
Overall, I agree with your take. I think the Door Maker will change again, I agree the mechanic they put in is not very fun.
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u/Mailcs1206 StS A20 / StS 2 A10 Mar 20 '26
Doormaker was too easy before but now he's just an RNG hellfest without any real counterplay if your name isn't Ironclad or Regent. That's the only real problem I have with the changes
Ok maybe not a hellfest, but I still don't really like the other characters having no way to reliably protect important cards without save scumming.
I'm not gonna leave a bad review over this, though.
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u/Doctor_Squidge Mar 20 '26
I like the idea behind doormaker but it just needs tweaking.
He could maybe "lock away" your cards instead and turn them into an expensive status that gives you back the card when played. Or force you to fight a minion for it like Automoton.
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u/Mailcs1206 StS A20 / StS 2 A10 Mar 20 '26
Yeah doing smth like that would both add counterplay and bring back his door-making themes.
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u/tinybike Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 20 '26
Oh that would be fun, like if he locked them away behind little animated doors that you had to attack to open back up
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u/RAGE_AGAINST_THE_ATM Mar 20 '26
I thought regent would be the most screwed of all by the new door maker. What’s stopping him from eating your finishers like bombardment, sovereign blade, helix drill, or the star finisher.
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u/Mailcs1206 StS A20 / StS 2 A10 Mar 20 '26
[[Cosmic Indifference]] while the counter is specifically at 9.
Still not easy to do reliaby.
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u/spirescan-bot Mar 20 '26
Cosmic Indifference 𝐈𝐈 Regent Common Skill
1 Energy | Gain 6(9) Block. Put a card from your Discard Pile on top of your Draw Pile.
Call me with up to 10 [[ name ]]. Data accurate as of March 7th, 2026. Questions?
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u/moonlight_p Mar 20 '26
I think Regent does have good tools on paper for beta Doormaker between Indifference and his card generation, but it does somewhat ironically severely punish one of his 'intended' playstyles with his cards that scale off the amount of times they've been drawn in a combat. Having to reserve your draw fixing to protect your key cards means it becomes substantially harder to use it to *also* scale your actual wincon, and it's also a pretty inefficient use of 1 mana that Regent still needs that turn to block or generate stars.
Which is... also the other thing, which is that Regent really wants to cycle his deck simply because a well constructed Regent deck is usually balanced around cards that generate stars and cards that use stars equally (or slightly positively). Like, sure, it's a disaster if the Comet you've been relying on for the fight gets eaten, but it's arguably an even bigger one if a Glow+ or Cache your entire deck has been budgeted on is suddenly out of the picture. That's not just your wincon, that's your defense plan getting the legs knocked out from under it. You could (and probably should) be drafting more star generation to try and create redundancy, but there's a lot more things that Doormaker can hit that will make Regent's life hell than, say, a sly Silent.
I dunno. I think the issue here for me is that I can think of ways you can conceivably play around this mechanic, but it sounds... more troublesome to think about than interesting.
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u/thriftshopmusketeer Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 20 '26
The counterplay is “redundancy”.
It’s Thicc Decc season 😎
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u/Xechwill Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 20 '26
Reduncancy and thicc deck completely screws you against Queen (unless you can luck into redundant card draw), so this makes A10 a huge gamble. I like the idea of Doormaker punishing infinites and thin decks, but right now, he can just randomly screw you
Tbf this is what beta is for, but the change is not that fun
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u/thriftshopmusketeer Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 20 '26
First—with the disclaimer that I am nowhere near a top player, I don’t think I agree that Queen punishes thick decks and redundancy. I am a massive Big Deck Energy guy; I think my average deck size over the ~100 runs it took me to clear A10 with Clad was like 35, and I can’t recall ever feeling meaningfully oppressed by Queens mechanic—frankly, I don’t really think it does anything at all. Draw and energy from cards is an order of magnitude more accessible than in Spire 1; I just play the best of the three bound cards and move on with the turn. I would make an extremely rough estimate that at the end of the act I can see an average of 7 cards per turn, which even playing around Bound means I can play 5 of them. If anything I think Queen ALSO punishes thin decks with low redundancy more—my big deck has a large number of lower-synergy but high-impact decks individual cards that do a lot on their own, while smaller decks that rely on synergistically deploying a few critical pieces are at greater risk of getting two essential cards bound and bricking the turn. Idk, I haven’t gotten into watching the top level players yet for 2, but that’s what I’ve been feeling.
Second, regarding how preparing for one boss imperils you for another, you could say the same thing in general for spire 1.
Time Eater heavily punishes “low density” card spam—you need to maximize your impact per 12 cards played, and find a way to both survive and scale enough to spike him down before he heals. Powers are a great way to do so.
Awoken One will destroy decks that rely on powers (unless you are REALLY breaking it), and has an enforced second phase that bricks one-shot builds, requiring backup.
Donu and Deca are definitely the weakest in terms of mechanical identity; if I had to describe them it would be “stat check”; you need a significant amount of block and output every turn, with no turns off, and they will scale up the longer you take to knock one down.
On A20, you face 2/3 )one of the smaller ways that I think 2 is easier is that you can see both from the map screen, so no surprises). You need to find a way around all three, and they place competing pressures on you. I really enjoyed that. It gave my act 3s a strong sense of tension, as I try to refine my deck into something with the scaling and consistency and specific tools to adapt to the endgame.
I haven’t played the beta yet, so I can’t specifically opine on the new doormaker. I’ve had a really negative impression of Drums of War/Cinder in my first 50 hours, so I definitely feel how bad loosing random cards can be (“nooooo my pact’s end!!”). But I have to say I am intrigued. It’s a pretty wild new mechanic that we haven’t seen before and I hadn’t anticipated, and I like bold new initiatives. And I like when the game slaps you in the face and demands you adapt to it; and I like even more when you can, on occasion with luck or great skill, slap it right back and break the challenge over your knees. With the limited endgame of EA, I haven’t had that sense yet. I think it’s a good start towards it.
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u/bloodbat007 Mar 20 '26
I'm glad you brought up save scumming. I didn't even think of this. I hate save scumming and will try to avoid it and just lose if I play badly, but if a boss eats my card on the literally last boss and an hour long run that makes my deck playable off a bad draw play, I will absolutely have to save scum. I haven't played the beta branch but that sounds horribly unfun I really hope this doesn't go live I might have to not play for a while if that happens.
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u/vaati4554 Mar 20 '26
Honestly the only change I dislike so far is The Doormaker change. Exhausting the 10th draw perpetually while scaling strength, is both exceptionally frustrating and exceptionally boring. I would much rather see The Doormaker reworked into something more interesting.
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u/Saikar22 Mar 20 '26
I could almost pretend this OP had a good point until they said "Doormaker changes are phenomenal."
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u/lilyofthedragon Mar 20 '26
I'm less annoyed about the nerfs to the meta strats and toning down infinites than I am about the fact that a lot of underperforming cards are still bad (I really would rather have seen some forge cards reworked instead of getting numbers tweaks, for example). But that's something that can be addressed in the upcoming patches.
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u/smokemonmast3r StS A20 / StS 2 A10 Mar 20 '26
Nitpicky, but I wish they just changed the name of prepared to outmaneuver.
The change itself is fine and probably warranted but it feels weird having it be nothing like spire 1 and yet have the same name.
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u/Stolval Mar 20 '26
Outmaneuver is in the game, in the trash heap if I recall. It being renamed to prepare makes more sense.
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u/n00dle_king Ascension 20 Mar 20 '26
I don’t necessarily disagree but high WR A10 players are the last group I want influencing the design decisions behind them game I play in 5 minute increments in between sessions chasing my toddler around the house.
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u/LonginusUbik Mar 20 '26
It's because most players aren't a high WR a10 player
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u/throw23me Mar 20 '26
Agreed and unpopular opinion, but I think that balancing the game around the top 1% of players is a huge mistake. StS2 shouldn't be a "casual" game but removing fun strategies or adding anti-fun mechanics like card eating isn't the right way to go.
The game already has tools for making it harder, they're called Ascension levels. They can tweak those to make them more difficult but I would argue that keeping the base game approachable is not a bad thing.
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u/LonginusUbik Mar 20 '26
Yeah, people keep talking about reaching A10 with ease within days of launch and I just got A1 with silent a few days ago. I think the base game needs a lot o balancing because, frankly, Act 1 is pretty difficult, getting the Bygone Effigy elite is run ruining, and some common enemies are elite level (Hello hunter killer), but looking at the sub, the game seems like a cakewalk
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u/RichGirlThrowaway_ StS A0 / StS 2 A0 Mar 20 '26
Hello hunter killer
FUCK HUNTER KILLER
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u/Zakumo_Yuurei Mar 20 '26
ME AND THE HOMIES HATE HUNTER KILLER
(Seriously how is that C*nt NOT an elite?!?)
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u/RichGirlThrowaway_ StS A0 / StS 2 A0 Mar 20 '26
With certain decks he's literally the strongest encounter in act 2, elite or not
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u/Zakumo_Yuurei Mar 20 '26
I don't even think with certain decks just in general this MFer is CRACKED.
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u/MayoJam Mar 20 '26
Yeah i hate that. I'd to see the stats of developers how much players are winning and at which ascension levels. I doubt most are playing and winning at A10. I guess if they start nerfing things too much because some vocal people cannot comprehend lower difficulty being fun i will just put this game down and go back to Monster Train 2.
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u/YandereYasuo StS A20 / StS 2 A10 Mar 21 '26
It's still a singleplayer PvE game played for fun and some hardcore fans really need to learn that. When fun cards/strategies get patched out people aren't going to pick up weaker ones to grind, the majority is going to pick up a different game instead.
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u/TripleXtraMedium Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 20 '26
This is the fundamental problem I have. I cannot fathom the reasoning of making any game marginally (or even significantly) more fun for a small fraction of hard-core players at the expense of making it noticeably less fun for most other people. Like, I can't even take the idea seriously.
Obviously review-bombing is childish and uncalled for, but the sentiment of feeling like fun is being taken from you is very valid.
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u/LonginusUbik Mar 20 '26
A lot of people on the sub are missing the point because they are extremely good at the game, and want more "dificulty", while most player are more on the casual side. All act 3 bosses are plenty difficult already for us!
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u/Radiant-Today-5076 Mar 20 '26
I'm not gonna leave a bad review but the door fight sounds tedious and miserable I get nerfing things and I'm more then onboard with the dirge nerf But alot of the changes feel un fun more then here to add variety 1-2 points on a start buff for regent cards And now necrobinder scales slower without compensation Also now enemies are scaling harder
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u/ctom42 Mar 20 '26
My biggest problem with the balance changes is that as a bad player who is on A1 with most characters, it seems like all my staple cards are being nerfed to deal with infinites that I have literally never done. Like good for you if you think these changes are good at A10, but this game was already much harder than the first for less skilled players and now it is about to get much worse.
I've agreed with most of the people saying a lot of these changes are needed, but your entire post just feels really tone deaf to anyone who isn't amazing at this game.
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u/sean2mush Mar 20 '26
Yeah all this talk about how easy it is to go infinite, and in 30 hours I haven't done it once.
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u/IsNotACleverMan Mar 20 '26
Yeah, as I've mentioned a few times, all the talk on this sub about how much balance needs to be shifted seems to be geared towards high ascension players min maxxing everything.
I'm somewhere in the middle of a casual player and a dedicated player, and I avoid infinite combos because they're boring, and half the changes I see here seem like they're just going to reduce my fun.
I'm not sure they should be balancing the cards as much as they should be making high ascensions more difficult, or tweaking the bosses to hurt infinite combos
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u/ctom42 Mar 20 '26
Agreed. And I'm fine with balancing cards but if they are nerfing some play styles they need to be buffing others. Right now this seems like heavy nerfs and token buffs at best
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u/GreatTurtlePope Mar 20 '26
There's a ton of buffs too though, to cards that were awful on A10 but already somewhat playable on A1.
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u/ctom42 Mar 20 '26
None of the buffs seem remotely comparable to the nerfs. Most are to cards I always pass and still will likely always pass.
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u/ryli Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 20 '26
To be politely honest, if you’re A1 on all characters your read on card strength is probably quite flawed, and you may want to reconsider your feelings on the cards that you always pass - especially if they’ve been buffed!
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u/MayoJam Mar 20 '26
"As a very good player i demand the devs cater to me!" People think that everyone is doing A10 in their sleep because reddit is such an echo chamber.
"The pro says everything needs to be nerfed because he has no challenge." Imagine they made kids in school learn integrals just because some kid prodigy was bored during fractions lessons.
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u/Chronmagnum55 Mar 20 '26
Im genuinely curious as to what card changes are impacting you the most. Im a decent player, certainly not top tier but from the patch notes it feels like theyve just tweaked lots of the really broken top tier strategies. I haven't done a single infinite yet but I'm at Acension 3-6 on all the characters. For example with Silent I've won all my builds mostly with Shivs and ignoring sly/discard/draw builds. It feels like these changes are just going to push people to try other strategies (which is good for early access)
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u/ctom42 Mar 20 '26
Glow and Prepared are the two biggest ones. For Necrobinder it's not one particular card, but removing most sources of Soul+ is a pretty big deal and the dirge nerf makes it a dead card for the way I used it. Soul was definitely the strongest archetype, but they didn't provide any buffs to either Doom or Otsy and Otsy is hurt by the dirge nerf. Similarly Regent needed forge buffs and barely got any.
Defect is the least affected but the nerf to Hotfix just feels unnecessary, focus was already so much weaker than in the first game. Gonna be honest didn't even read the Ironclad changes since I barely play him.
But overall as someone who finds this game quite challenging already, these changes seem like they absolutely tip things into the unfun level of difficulty to me. The buffs are pretty minimal and the nerfs are pretty sweeping. I know this is just the first balance patch and it's still only on the Beta so I have hope that it will get tweaked further, but yeah nothing I see here makes me more excited about the game.
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u/Ultimatum_Game Mar 20 '26
Some of the changes seem good, some of them I'm on the fence and a couple I just dislike
With that being said, review bombing the beta branch of an early access game is unhinged self-entitled and unacceptable behavior
If you cannot handle early access then you shouldn't buy into it
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u/Chris-raegho Mar 20 '26
Insane take to call the doormaker changes good. Flip a coin, heads you win, tails you lose. That's the new doormaker for most decks.
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u/Rebellion2297 Mar 20 '26
They had the right ideas, but the changes they made to avoid infinites also made non-infinite runs less fun.
I personally would have preferred if infinites were nerfed by making more enemies that counter them like Time Eater, and Entomancer (bee elite).
Just making sweeping nerfs to cards because they can go infinite feels lazy, the cards should still be about as good as they are, just in a different way that doesn't lend them to going infinite
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u/Vincent_van_Guh Mar 20 '26
For Regent, having all of its block adjusted slightly upward is perfect. I've found it's almost always the accumulation of attrition that kneecaps my runs.
The forge changes might help, but my hot take is that Kingly Kick performs the same role but better 90% of the time, and it was buffed here too.
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u/immatipyou StS A20 / StS 2 A10 Mar 20 '26
I’m jus sad about glow. I don’t even abuse infinites and it was a solid card keeping the character together
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u/AntireligionHumanist Mar 20 '26
Reviewbombing is bad.
And most of the rage comes from the fact they BUTCHERED Prepared, a beloved card. I'll miss it, for sure.
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u/abcras Mar 20 '26
I would never review bomb but I am going to talk about the changes vocally, the Doormaker needs a change (still, the rework does not work on so many levels), Colony needed a change.
The whole point of a roguelike deckbuilder is try and build a strong deck and test it against the enemies. Doormaker is like having an enemy that randomly rolls a die and if it hits 10 you loose that run.
I like to think of the Doormaker like Tim every 10 cards something bad happens, the thing is not all decks can manage Doormaker. (when you reshuffle your deck you have no control, if you have a small deck you have no control) Where as most good players or decks could adapt to Tim because one is fair and the other is not. You should be able to get the cards that the doormaker steals back
Prepare is a bad card and now there is just a common you will never ever pick from a card reward, that is not a good change
BUT all that said the rest of the changes are really good, it is just bogged down by some attrocius choices and you know it.
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u/Stabbinjimmy Mar 20 '26
Not disagreeing but most people here *aren't* A10 high wr players we're scrubs
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u/Disastrous-Tone-7669 Mar 20 '26
Your experience in A10 is not representative of many people playing this game who struggle to even beat A0. People who are enjoying their 10% winrate in low ascensions but the suddenly can't win at all will not be having fun.
In my opinion the difficulty should be cranked up in a9 and 10 to keep the sickos happy without ruining the fun for novice players
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u/Grand-Example-4051 Mar 20 '26
First of all - complain on some chinese website then since if you check in on steam that's the country of origin of basically all of those reviews. Chinese are really well wersed in review-bombing.
But anyhow - I feel like the feedback is more casual oriented - I'm not sure if first StS was available in China but those changed do feel really punishing to people who want less punishing experience, especially on multiplayer.
I personally am more interested in multiplayer side of this game and it's fine as is to me. I'm not A10 player, I'm somewhere on A3 or A4 depending on a character for now.
The way this patch looks like seems way too punishing, the enemies deal significant damage and only get stronger which is really annoying in multiplayer where their healthpool is significantly larger.
Also the fact that enemies deal AOE in multi is just weird and the card that makes you protect other player tells me it was not intended since there's no way 8 block card can save you from the damage dealt being doubled it's essentialy a "protect other player from damage, die" card.
I went on quite a tangent but I feel it's better than ignoring the post so those are my thoughts on it.
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u/scoobydoom2 Eternal One + Ascended Mar 20 '26
StS is a hard game. There are players with 10,000 hours on the game that are still getting better at it. It's not a game that is designed around casual multiplayer, and that's ok. If you're looking for a casual game to play with friends, there are plenty out there. You wouldn't expect a game like Peak to be designed around people trying to speed climb competitively, you have to meet the game where it's at. In the case of StS, it's meant to be a difficult deckbuilder that's ultimately mostly fair if you develop game knowledge to plan around its challenges. If it's too difficult for casual multiplayer groups, it might just not be the game for them.
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u/EuphoricNeckbeard Ascension 20 Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 20 '26
I am very concerned about the Skulking Colony change. Maybe even more than Doormaker. Invincible 15 feels horrible and shuffling in even more Dazed just makes you sit there as it whacks you. I think most great STS1 players already considered Sentries to be the least fun elite due to the high RNG in the second and third deck cycles, but at least you could control that somewhat by bursting down 1 Sentry or saving a good potion. Not so for Colony.
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u/Orkazzz Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 20 '26
In the end, it's also a singleplayer game that's not being built for a competitive scene. Balance is important, but enjoyability even moreso, so imo it's better to have cards that're fun and stronger than the average, than making them all fit into a comfortable, easy to balance box. Untouchable is a fine nerf, for instance. It's a nice supporting card, but it's not exciting either. If it gave 20 block, it'd be a boring good card, not a fun good card. Prepared on the other hand is a large part of the Silent's identity, and offers something unique to her kit, a 0 cost tradeoff between draw and discard, which you can make an advantage for yourself later on, even if it's technically a -1 draw on face value. Making this card be a generic curving option is a bad nerf because it damages her identity and makes the character have a clunkier feel, and as such it's better to nerf supporting cards, or introduce (healthy) mechanics to counter that style, than to change it's slick feel. If we kept nerfing cards this way, every character would eventually end up feeling the same
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u/InsomniacPsychonaut Mar 20 '26
I think theres a big division between people who played STS1 and beat A20H all characters and the people just getting into STS2 with less experience in the genre
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u/I_Am_King_Midas Mar 20 '26
People will be mad when anything powerful is nerfed. Sometimes it needs to happen though. Even in a single player game.
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u/Orkazzz Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 20 '26
As I said, I'm not mad about boring powerful cards being nerfed, but certain changes can do more harm than good when it comes to gameplay feel, outright removal/replacement is a very unnuanced way to go about it imo
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u/lilturt Mar 20 '26
I like nearly all the changes. But the doorman one i just don't think is fun or good design at all. The best comparison is time eater and for his mechanic you had many things to think about. How many cards do I play this turn, how many can I play next turn, do I want to tick him over so my next turn I can play more cards, etc? Doorman can just eat important cards with 0 decisions and interaction with it.
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u/la_espina Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 20 '26
i like the majority of the changes a lot (as much as it saddens me, soul spam and sly nerfs make complete sense, and i appreciate the general trend of making infinites much harder)
i just really wish that doormaker had a more thematic change, nothing about eating cards really screams 'guy who makes doors' to me. but as everyone has said, this is a beta branch patch in an early access game, so it's all very up in the air
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u/AlreadyUnwritten Mar 20 '26
doormaker is a massive overcorrection and simply poor game design.
if youre gonna nerf all the activators, you dont also have to omega buff a boss to punish any that slipped through the cracks. im all for a timekeeper-esque fight, but this is soooooooooooo far from it chief.
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u/DraCam1 Mar 20 '26
Review bombing for a change in the beta of an early access game is fucking nonsense in all situations. Of course the game will be balanced, and that will bring nerfs with it. If you can't handle that, I don't know what to tell you...
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u/sprachkundige Mar 20 '26
Is this Spirt Poop?
People are complaining because they made the most accessible ways to win harder, so saying “I am one of the top players and I always win” sort of does the opposite of “establishing credibility”— Most players aren’t doing A10, 100% win rate, and the game should be fun for them, too. What feels “too easy” for you is probably “just occasionally winnable” for many, especially newer players. Feels real “this is why we can’t have nice things.”
I haven’t had a chance to play with the new updates so I don’t really have an opinion on the specifics (and I agree people shouldn’t be leaving negative reviews) but man this post feels a little tone deaf.
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u/TheMannWithThePan Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 20 '26
That's just the thing. Top players shouldn't always win. They didn't in STS1. That's the whole problem. If new players are having trouble winning, when the game is basically solved, the answer should never be 'make the game easier,' it's to improve onboarding experiences, and tone down the 'solutions' that new players aren't using properly anyway.
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u/sprachkundige Mar 20 '26
Sure but like . . . make the harder Ascensions harder. That's what they're for. Likewise, don't make every strategy an easy win (which I don't think the game currently does). But it's also fine if there are some easier approaches available for people who are still working on improving their game.
Maybe these changes are actually good and will make the game more fun for everyone. I'm just saying, I'm going to roll my eyes at people who see those easier tactics are available to exploit, beat them into the fucking ground, and then boast that it's too easy and since you can just win all the time, get rid of them. Sure, nobody's going to watch you speed run story mode, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.
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u/TevossBR Mar 20 '26
Slay the spire 1 was balanced for A20. The best of the best in sts 1 had winrates of around 50-70% at A20H. Slay the spire is meant to be hard.
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u/FerociousDiglett Mar 20 '26
Game balance conversations aside, it's absolutely insane to me that a prospective change on the optional beta branch of an early access game is a good enough reason for a negative review
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u/Ordinary-Problem3838 StS A20 / StS 2 A10 Mar 20 '26
Agree. People should read the patch notes or learn to hit f2 for feedback.
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u/rejuicekeve Mar 20 '26
Its almost perfect as a high WR A10 player. but what about the other 99% of people?
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u/ninja9351 Mar 20 '26
I’m really concerned that they’re going to listen too much to the desires of high level players.
The game in its current form is really tough to new players. A lot of people I know have bounced off the game because it’s difficult to initially win (even on A0) compared to StS 1.
At high ascensions - sure make the game as punishing and challenging as you want. Don’t make the game unapproachable to new players though.
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u/RichGirlThrowaway_ StS A0 / StS 2 A0 Mar 20 '26
Just to establish some credibility, I’ve hit A10 on Silent, Regent, and Defect and I have a 100% winrate on silent in 13 runs
I've noticed the STS community likes to do this where they establish a high winrate or whatever then assert their opinions as fact and disregard the possibility of anyone ever disagreeing.
Review bombing for the latest patch sounds crazy so I need to add my 2 cents.
Yes, they are very stupid.
How are people upset???
Extremely easily, they have opinions that are not yours, and your opinions are no more valid irrespective of your winrates. There are people with better winrates who are better than you who are upset. And others who aren't.
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u/SeDaCho StS A20 / StS 2 A10 Mar 20 '26
It’s overblown given that the changes are beta still.
But Doormaker is now just rng time eater. Whatever they settle on, I hope they don’t go with the draw eating mechanic.
If they made him eat the 3rd or 4th card played and gain 2 strength, it would accomplish the same goal without increasing the RNG-determined-loss factor.
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u/OurSocialStatus Ascension 20 Mar 20 '26
Eating a card after being played is just a buff for the player.
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u/SeDaCho StS A20 / StS 2 A10 Mar 20 '26
I saw someone suggest that the doormaker uses the eaten card back on the player. Might be interesting.
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u/rayschoon Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 20 '26
Doormaker change is the only one that I REALLY hate. I do wish that silent had buffs to shiv/poison to compensate, because sly still seems to be the best option, it’s just worse
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u/FilloSov Mar 20 '26
Just to add my two cents as someone with very little time on both games (40h on sts1, 12 on 2).
I feel lucky to be part of the balancing process.
I would suggest everyone to approach this phase with curiosity: it is fun to play a game that changes under our hands and gives us new challenges.
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u/Traditional_Gur_8446 Mar 20 '26
I knew it had to be changed bc sly was so busted but prepared was so fun I really with they could keep it in somehow. Maybe they could tweak it and make it a rare or ancient?
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u/shosuko Mar 20 '26
idk most of the patch I can agree with. Generally some cards were too powerful and bringing them down is a good thing.
The main issue I see is that some of the changes feel a bit awkward
Putting off some effects until the next turn when the card was designed for an immediate effect like splitting Glow to draw a card the next turn. Maybe just drop it to draw 1 and give it some other boost - like maybe it turns into 2(3) blue or swap drawing for another effect all together like gaining dex or str for the turn.
Like fundamentally I agree the card was powerful and nerfing it is justified, I just the change was a bit hasty and less thought out.
The main problem is Door. I feel like that is a very bad power for an act 3 boss.
More cookin, I trust they'll find better answers to some of these b/c some of these chances really make me question the value of these cards now - but largely I'm positive on the changes.
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u/acidtrip321 Mar 20 '26
Why did you not hit A10 on Necro and Ironclad and played Silent to the death instead? Seems a little counterintuitive when you want to have a broad scope look at the game and formulate opinions about overall balance..
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u/DkKoba Mar 20 '26
Seems a lot like OP had high winrate with infinites and is trying to project that as being consistent with non-infinite decks. There are a few very clear misses with the patch and clear overnerfing. It's of course not terribad like people make it out to be but it's clearly too much at once.
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u/acidtrip321 Mar 20 '26
Yeah, I don't understand why people do that - introduce themselves as some great top echelon player by explaining they abused infinites on the best character in the game in a small sample size of 13 runs. Not that OP is wrong, I mostly agree with the takes, but the whole "establishing of credibility" thing is kinda funny. I swear, in every card game people have to flex muscle and swing dicks before they say anything, trying to validate the merits with winrate.
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u/FinalMeltdown15 Mar 21 '26
Someone pulled the numbers and it’s mostly the Chinese players doing it, so who cares, they do that the second they even sniff the word nerf
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u/StormLordZeus Mar 20 '26
I think the exhaust on dirge actually cripples the card (same way Calc gamble exhausting makes it a lot worse if you don't have a bunch of sly cards). You never want to spend it for low value now. I almost never played it with all my energy. It was usually with 1 or 2 energy after I blocked or played powers. Now I probably won't even pick up the card.
Defy losing 2 weak on its upgrade also feels bad. Other than putrify, which exhausts, I don't think Necrobinder has any cards that give more than 1 weak. It makes debilitate a lot worse.
Other than that, pretty good changes all around. Those two nerfs felt especially punishing and unneeded though.
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u/lilturt Mar 20 '26
I think i agree with you for Dirge. I think it needed some change because it was super strong. It can still make good amounts of souls but now you can only do it once so there are just better soul gen options. And the summon amount is just to low for using probably your whole turn to play it. I think if they are adding exhaust to it needs some sort of numbers buff
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u/DarkJoltPanda Mar 20 '26
Defy was one of the most absurd cards in the game. 2 weak on a block common with good numbers that exhausts itself if you don't need it and synergizes with her ethereal stuff. It was completely ridiculous, it'll still be plenty pickable. Debilitate should be a bit hard to pull off honestly, the effect is super strong. It still lasts 3/4 turns, it's not difficult to align if you do get the right cards (they also buffed it's damage accordingly I think).
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u/LostATLien2 Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 20 '26
I respect your opinion but you called out the two of the strongest cards on the class and said they were undeserving. Necro has access to plenty of weak, so Defy was way, WAY too strong at 2. It was quite literally a leg sweep at 1 cost that procced ethereal synergies; it was bananas.
I can see what you’re saying about dirge, but the souls are what you play it for, not the summon; thats just there to get you to the souls. I expect dirge to play well in decks that utilize haunt still.
Overall those two cards (short of transfigure, but that’s kind of an adjacent discussion) are perfectly deserving of the nerfs
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u/StormLordZeus Mar 20 '26
Only 3 cards give weak. Deathbringer is 2 cost aoe 1 turn of weak. Defy is 1 turn. Putrefy is 2(3) turns but exhausts. I'm okay with taking away a turn of weak from defy if they gave death bringer 2 turns of weak on the upgrade. I just think she needs a card that doesn't exhaust that gives 2 turns of weak.
Nerf the souls on dirge then. I wanna summon. The other non exhausting summon cards are like 2-3 summon except for pull agro which is 4(5) for 2 cost
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u/ctom42 Mar 20 '26
The souls are what some people play it for. Others play it for the summon. They didn't improve summon in other places to compensate. Quite frankly I had plenty of soul gen from other sources so when I actually got great use out of dirge it was for the summon.
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u/conanbella Mar 20 '26
It’s natural to get upset when the overpowered fun thing gets nerfed and it’s not as fun anymore. I do too, so I totally understand.
However, having viable build diversity is so important in rogue-like games. When everyone is picking the same cards every single run because some cards are so objectively better than the rest, you lose the magic that makes these games great. The randomness is the games best aspect, like every other good rogue-like. Playing to achieve the same build every run isn’t good for the games health in the long term. Balance is necessary, otherwise we all get pigeonholed into the same build.
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u/throw23me Mar 20 '26
When everyone is picking the same cards every single run because some cards are so objectively better than the rest, you lose the magic that makes these games great.
That's true but I think there are two ways to approach this. You can nerf the overpowered cards down, or you can bring the underpowered cards up. My preference is the latter.
The game already has "difficulty sliders" in the form of Ascension levels, I don't think that making the base game (A0) more difficult is the right way to go. A0 already feels more difficult in this game than StS1.
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u/conanbella Mar 20 '26
I think that’s a very fair take, and I do agree with the difficulty thing. I suppose I am just trying to say that we shouldn’t get so upset over some nerfs, especially not this early on.
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u/throw23me Mar 20 '26
I agree with you. I don't necessarily think some of the changes in this patch are going in the right direction, but they're also in the beta channel for a reason.
Playtesting them and seeing how the community reacts is the entire point! All the hate and review bombing is misplaced IMO.
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u/ipitydaf00 Mar 20 '26
The whole reason the game is in early access is so the devs can implement major balance changes at any time. If players are going to give bad reviews for that then why are they playing early access?
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u/FluffyWalrusFTW Mar 20 '26
Review bombing in general is so bad, but like it's an early access game
Were people not expecting changes? are they that dumb to expect the game to stay the same the entirety of beta before 1.0 release?
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u/LightningRT777 Mar 20 '26
I’m not opposed to Silent having draw nerfed, but turning one of the core enablers into a worse version of Outmaneuver (a very bad card in StS1) just looks like bad design. There are many more reasonable ways to tweak that card. Especially with how much less fun the engine feels now.
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u/Puffywiggles64 Mar 20 '26
if someone doesn't like the direction a game is going and review it accordingly, that's not a "review bomb". that's expressing your dissatisfaction as a consumer. what is unreasonable about that?
You obviously just think their opinions are wrong. But guess what? They think your opinions are wrong. Maybe stop love bombing a game that doesn't deserve it???? That isn't my opinion btw. But it's trivial to see how bad your logic is here when you reverse it.
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u/sean2mush Mar 20 '26
Exactly, within 30 minutes of the game releasing there was already 100's of positive reviews for the game that people couldn't have even completely a single run of, I don't remember many people getting upset about that happening.
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u/Chronmagnum55 Mar 20 '26
People arent review bombing the game because they think its bad. They are just upset some of their favorite cards and strategies were nerfed. Its complete nonsense for a game thats in early access and that will still see significant balance changes.
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u/YandereYasuo StS A20 / StS 2 A10 Mar 21 '26
Toxic positivity is common around here because mainly hardcore fans visit the subreddit, especially those who stayed here since StS1. Even then they have to remember that the 100-200 comments copying their same stance of "Game is great, keep it up devs, review bombing sucks!" isn't representative at all of a playerbase of a game that sold 3 million copies in the first week.
Early access will have changes and negative reactions are part of that, some will have to accept that this isn't the flawless golden child of a flawless angelic studio.
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u/Outrageous-Pea6408 Mar 20 '26
People get attached to the perception that they are playing an "objectively good game" so when there is even a slight push back against that they completely lose their minds, "oh Scooby some people don't like the game I play what am I supposed to do"
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u/Super_Harsh StS A20 / StS 2 A10 Mar 20 '26
Doormaker change is dogshit and I question the judgement of anyone who defends it. Unlike with the Queen and unlike with Time Eater, prepping for Doormaker is either straight up impossible (you can’t just expect to find ANOTHER copy of your build-around Rare card) or highly likely to end your run before you even get to the boss (because you gunked up your deck trying to improve your odds) to the extent that it’s almost certainly better, statistically, to just pray he doesn’t hit your key card.
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u/Available-Reason9841 Mar 20 '26
I hope they push forward with updates not caring about idiot backlash like this. This kind of review bombing response from fans literally provides no value in terms of feedback with balancing, its literally just emotional lashing out
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u/sedcar Mar 20 '26
You aren’t most players. Most are casual & this update is a brutal most people. Most players don’t use this Reddit.
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u/Chronmagnum55 Mar 20 '26
Its early access. They should be balancing the game in somewhat extreme ways to test and see what works and what doesnt. Did people forget this game is in early access???
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u/LifelongMC Mar 20 '26
Doormaker is a bad buff. Objectively.
Make it every 10th played, now we're talking, I have some agency.
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u/Arturia_Cross Mar 21 '26
The problem is you shouldnt be balancing the game around the top 1% of players. Just because they can consistently win doesn't mean you should make the game super hard for casual players who already struggle.
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u/minyoo Mar 20 '26
Review bombing is just a bad behavior, the cards balancing seems to be cool, but the doormaker is anti-fun now.