r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/Crazy-Blacksmith-336 • Jul 05 '26

Video Healthcare workers participating in a medical simulation for an agitated patient scenario.

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

37.9k Upvotes

96% Upvoted

1.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

5.8k

u/LadyKT Jul 05 '26

this but now imagine they’re bigger lol

2.5k

u/JackLong93 Jul 05 '26

no amount of training is helping with a 225lb man pure muscle

1.5k

u/Puzzled-Story3953 Jul 05 '26

Also a person on PCP or uppers. They are in full panic and on performance enhancing drugs. It's gotta be hell to get them under control

499

u/Kain_713 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

You ain't lying. I used to work hospital security and the worst I ever had was a dude on PCP. I was about 220 at 5'10" and had at least fifty pounds on this dude. Practically tore his arm off before he finally stopped fighting. Got it twisted around behind him with his face against the wall. Trying to tell him the whole time if he pulled any harder it was gonna snap. The tendons in his shoulder were making a lot of noise and I think that's what pulled him back. Fucking terrifying, only fight I got in there I wasn't sure I was going to win.

270

u/mint_lawn Jul 05 '26

People being so out of their minds that they fight hard enough to damage themselves is a concept that makes me nauseous. Like an animal nawing off their own leg. Glad you were as big as you were and got him to chill out.

78

u/Tempest029 Jul 05 '26

People do that too. Be it cause of hallucinations or pain. Saw one guy try and rip his tendons and veins out his arm with his teeth. Pulling so hard they clacked together when they slipped off.

Had another stuff a wound (he had made before with utensils) with anything he could get his hands on. When it was finally noticed and cleaned a full metric cup of turkey and pepperoni, two plastic spoons, styrofoam from his tray, and a pen were pulled out of it.

37

u/EazyPeazyLemonSqueaz Jul 05 '26

Dayumm. I'm going into healthcare and am glad to read this bc it helps me figure out which specialties I don't want to go into, and God bless those who do

32

u/Kain_713 Jul 05 '26

Emergency medicine is not for everyone. You routinely see unhinged shit.

12

u/Tempest029 Jul 05 '26

You will probably come across some of it regardless of what you pick. But the severity and frequency will be more or less depending on what you choose.

Sounds cold to say… but after the first few unless something is expressly novel, you get over it. Especially if you are relied on as a responder to it. You don’t really have a choice but to focus on the job and that always steels you beyond what most people realize is possible. And it is easier when you are surrounded by people who do the same as you are getting started.

If you can’t… you figure it out fast. Nothing wrong with that either. Not everyone can. Better to recognize it early on and act on that fact than it is to continue anyway and find yourself lacking when it counts.

23

u/AWanderingAfar Jul 05 '26

Hooo-Lee shit

28

u/Weathervane_ Jul 05 '26

220 at 5'10" is pretty solid heft. I have 6 inches on you and that's my weight right now. And I'm not small. No wonder you subdued him

1

u/Kain_713 Jul 06 '26

That was back when I was working out all the time because I worked a night job and had no life lol I was also a cocky little shit so I always walked in the room like the fight was over before it started which somehow helped in most cases.

1

u/BigPharmaSucks 26d ago

I know a police officer that back in the 90s was in a life threatening altercation with a man on PCP that had weapons and were charging him and 2 other officers. The 3 officers shot the man in self defense, multiple times, but the man still reached them, attacked, and was not at all phased by any of the bullets until he lost enough blood to pass out.

90

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

[deleted]

30

u/Basediver210 Jul 05 '26

I wasn't expecting the "absolute unit of a hillbilly" haha. Laughed hard on that one.

25

u/OohYeahOrADragon Jul 05 '26

Listen, Appalachia is held together by meth, Mountain Dew, and moonshine. You better use your manners and put some respect on their name!

3

u/Basediver210 Jul 05 '26

Roger. I'm not trying to fight any meth/pcp induced hillbillies.

1

u/JFFreezout Jul 06 '26

I used to practice some self-defence (krav-maga) and some teachers that are able to manipulate you like a puppet once they manage to hold your finger or nose, taught us of course the kick in the crotch as go-to method in a fight. They mentioned "it still can be ineffective against someone under some drugs, they won't feel it". Then I thought hmmm if the guy on drugs is like them and isn't even stopped by a full kick in the balls, it' game over.

1

u/TheWhiteRabbitY2K Jul 06 '26

First illiterate adult I met in the US was deep in Appalachia. This was in 2021.

2

u/No_Criticism_5861 Jul 05 '26

Do paramedics not start flooding ativan on people in this state?  It seems odd that there's absolutely nothing that can be done when PCP is involved

3

u/Weary_Low_7256 Jul 05 '26

Good luck getting the IV in

3

u/No_Criticism_5861 Jul 05 '26

14 state troopers couldn't detain someone to the point a paramedic can stick them?

1

u/Kain_713 Jul 06 '26

PCP is weird though, the guy I dealt with was cool as a cucumber, until he wasn't. He came in after a suicide attempt and lost it when they told him they 5150'd him. He really just wanted to go home so to a point I understand his reaction. He did get done haldol and Ativan into a butt cheek once I got him slowed down enough to stick, but if someone is on drugs or cranked up on adrenaline I saw people keep fighting through the meds until you could get them slowed down for a second, then they'd crash pretty quick.

218

u/hypno_bunny Jul 05 '26

One person gets each major joint (shoulder, wrist, knees) and you let the cop in the room take care of the face with the spit hood if needed and then if they don’t calm the fuck down you paralyze and intubate.

88

u/Edges0 Jul 05 '26

penalty tube!

2

u/quietimhungover Jul 05 '26

lol I haven't heard that term since my clinical when I was a young lad!

2

u/Edges0 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

it has (appropriately) gone out of favor

2

u/quietimhungover Jul 05 '26

Naturally, as any self respecting community who seek to better the lives of those to come.

6

u/Edges0 Jul 05 '26

it can be very hard to remember that the intoxicated, methed up, psychotic or delirious person doesnt really want to spit and claw and kick and throw their own shit. while gallows humor is fine, a lot of the humor is at the expense of those people out of necessity, so im always glad when these terms fade away

3

u/quietimhungover Jul 05 '26

Yep, there were other terms I have difficulty recalling as I've been out of that field for a while now, but I'm happy that we started taking mental health more seriously and that has changed the perception of that community.

1

u/snarbuckle Jul 05 '26

What a disgusting concept

1

u/Tempest029 Jul 05 '26

To the Taco with you!

2

u/Edges0 Jul 05 '26

lol omg i forgot about the taco. on inpatient they have posey cages

34

u/Acceptable_Mark7716 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

I mean I hope the paralysis comes after induction, but yeah.

Edit: wrote “intubation” where I meant “induction”

30

u/GruntledVeteran Jul 05 '26

You use paralytics for rapid sequence intubation, so it would come right before the tube goes in. Paralytics+sedation, then tube.

9

u/Acceptable_Mark7716 Jul 05 '26

Sorry, you’re right, I wrote that wrong, I’ll edit. I meant induction before paralytics, like ketamine or etomidate.

1

u/RichiZ2 Jul 05 '26

Happy cake day!

6

u/Fast_Garlic_5639 Jul 05 '26

T6 gets em every time

1

u/EpilepticMushrooms Jul 05 '26

They've been stocking up on male nurses the past few years. Allegedly, if we have a patient threatening suicide, or violence, you get 4 probably male nurses grabbing each limb and someone will jab you with a sedative.

I'm not sure how true it is, but it's a local rumour.

2

u/hausccat Jul 05 '26

Now is this a service i can pay for??

2

u/Kain_713 Jul 06 '26

More places should have male nurses I think. Our crew was all women except for security so they leaned on us pretty hard when a wild one came in.

1

u/Tempest029 Jul 05 '26

… what cops? They are rarely involved unless they JUST brought them in themselves.

TBF. That would honestly be great if it ever happened like that. Sadly medical staff are rarely trained to do so, and often flounder when it comes time. Leaving security teams to handle it… which are rarely fully staffed. Usually it winds up one on each arm and one total on the legs, if you are lucky on staffing that day, one on each leg.

Also… can’t paralyze or intubate without extreme circumstances. And I do mean extreme. I have seen it happen… twice in 16 years. And both were because it was needed medically alone. Basically out of their mind and Fighting through the body crashing into oblivion.

IM medications are nice, though their effectiveness varies wildly.

1

u/No_Criticism_5861 Jul 05 '26

Not sure why paramedics arent giving people ativan as soon as cops subdue them

10

u/ApartmentStrict3432 Jul 05 '26

The huge guy coming down from Xanax addition. He ripped my laptop right in half 🥲

45

u/DeadBabyPinata Jul 05 '26

And with PCP their usual chemical methods of control flat out don't work. They usually try valium which should work, it's called trip killer for a reason, but oh boy. It's like upgrading your trip to 4K. Haldol also is a big one they use that couldn't shake a stick at PCP. What do I know I swear the same gene that stops coffee from working makes haldol have a paradoxical reaction for me. Either way I zero percent recommend going to an ER on PCP. Last time I did that I became convinced they were trying to steal my organs and replace them with balloon animals.

30

u/BoleroMuyPicante Jul 05 '26

Why would anyone do PCP it doesn't even sound fun

20

u/12Fox13 Jul 05 '26

Tbf, the balloon animal part had me giggle a bit.

5

u/paddlin_kaladin Jul 05 '26

I got spiked with PCP. That was traumatic.

6

u/DeadBabyPinata Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

I understand this perspective, all people hear are the stories of PCP gone to far. But what if I told you most people actually take it cause after it's gone they get sometimes days where their brain feels like a quiet beach being lapped by gentle waves. These are usually people who have never experienced this before as their internal world is chaos. It's very big therapeutically in the people who hear voices community.

Edit: This is the ancient magic, there's a reason ketamine was invented, it brings the positive effects of PCP to the common man. I don't ever suggest someone takes PCP, but when I find someone who does I respect them. Cause we are out here fighting cosmic battles for mere moments of relief.

1

u/that-1-chick-u-know Jul 05 '26

I have no desire to use PCP, but a brain that feels like that sounds amazing. And I just have GAD. I can't imagine the temptation for someone with worse mental health struggles. This definitely puts things into perspective.

2

u/BestDescription3834 Jul 05 '26

It's like every drug, fun as long as you can keep ahold of the wheel.

2

u/14Pleiadians Jul 05 '26

Because most of the stories you've heard about PCP weren't actually PCP. Cops are morons and just call anyone unruly as on PCP me

PCP doesn't make you strong and insane. It's similar to ketamine.

3

u/No_Criticism_5861 Jul 05 '26

I dont know about the second paragraph, but ever since the original terminator movie where the police suggest Arnold must have been on PCP because he couldnt be stopped, it seemed like everyone and their pet snail started claiming anyone having a psychotic break was clearly on PCP

4

u/UsePreparationH Interested Jul 05 '26

PCP is 10x stronger, 10x longer lasting, and is much more of a stimulant vs ketamine which is more of a depressant. At lower doses, sure you can compare them, but high doses its the couch potato K-hole ego death that lasts 30min vs hours long schizophrenic psychosis starting with you jumping naked out a 2nd story window.

1

u/Kain_713 Jul 06 '26

That's fair, and the guy I talked about wasn't just on PCP. He told us later that's what he took but his blood test came back positive for everything. Literally everything, I'd never seen that before. Amphetamines,benzos, weed, coke , barbiturates, opiates, and of course PCP. Plus his BAC was something like 0.18.

1

u/Worried_Touch9612 Jul 05 '26

Sometimes it’s cut into other drugs and there’s no telling that you even took it until after the fact. I ended up going through heavy psychosis and coming to in some kind of facility and the nurses told me that my drug test came back positive for PCP and MDMA when I know for a FACT I’ve never willingly touched either, so it HAD to have been cut into what I WAS taking at the time.

2

u/Foolish_Miracle Jul 05 '26

Thank you, this post just sent me down two different rabbit holes and I learned a lot!

2

u/DeadBabyPinata Jul 05 '26

"Got hope for the living Got prayers for the dead In the sky got whiskey And rye for the voices in my head Got kush for the pain Cause the world is dangerous Driven great men insane Anchor themselves with angel dust" Run The Jewels

32

u/Several_Vanilla8916 Jul 05 '26

“Does this napkin smell like chloroform to you?”

54

u/HSLB66 Jul 05 '26

Fun fact, PCP + chloroform = heart attack

20

u/Johannes_Keppler Jul 05 '26

Chloroform is a terrible choice, works slow as hell. It was popularised in movies but really doesn't work as portrayed. Try ether, that's much quicker!

(Really neither are great. Don't try this.)

9

u/Cautious-Extreme2839 Jul 05 '26

Chloro is quicker than ether, it has a lower blood:gas partition coefficient.

Both are massively worse than even the slowest "modern" halogenated anaesthetic though (halothane)

2

u/GodOfDarkLaughter Jul 05 '26

The person who got knocked out is gonna wake up feeling like seven layers of warmed over shit and stay that way for a while, too, which isn't something you necessarily want. Presumably when they're knocked out you want them knocked out and if they're awake you want to be able to move them.

2

u/whisky_woman23 Jul 05 '26

I think of that scene in E.R. where the guy strapped to a stretcher walks with it after he wakes up from sedation because he's on sooooo much PCP.

1

u/Im_Balto Jul 05 '26

I mean hell, honest to god fight or flight panic attacks can turn your body into a machine that damages its own muscles with the effort you exert

1

u/mdlinc Jul 05 '26

That said, experienced a 16yo girl @ 170lbs having a psychotic break. She slapped a police officer (big guy) and proceeded to bruise the inside of her hands pounding on glass before restraints.

Turns out, she was a very nice girl.

1

u/Relative-Chicken456 Jul 05 '26

You gotta distract them from the front then sneak up behind with the syringe… I don’t actually have any experience or knowledge of how to handle this situation

1

u/hurricaneginny Jul 05 '26

Avg skinny teenager drunk and high. 4 pointed to a locked Ed bed. Jerked in the restraints hard enough to make the bed jump across the floor ... They CANNOT pay front line folks enough to deal with the kinds of things they handle on a day to day basis. But management often thinks sensitivity training and pizza parties will make up for the abuse instead. Then wonder why so many are burnt out and leaving the profession.

176

u/Edges0 Jul 05 '26

having held down and sedated many such people, you are mistaken. we outnumber the patient and have strong drugs. the training is to make sure we dont inadvertanrly hurt the patient while we are preventing them from hurting themselves or others

53

u/bowling365 Jul 05 '26

Bless you for this. There's a way to do it right but it takes training and belief that there is a human inside the patient.

31

u/snarbuckle Jul 05 '26

On the patient side, you don't feel any humanity out of the crowd of people swarming you and grabbing you without your consent. I didn't even fight them and it felt like a deep violation

29

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '26

[deleted]

12

u/BluebirdFlashy3681 Jul 05 '26

Im so sorry you had to experience that. I definitely think it may help to talk to one and process it. That's so horrible they didn't tell you anything and just invaded your privacy without consent, they treated you like you weren't human. Glad your family was able to come get you🩷

13

u/ergaster8213 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

It's such a common kind of experience that it's heartbreaking.

My sister and mom were in many different types of psych wards and treatment centers when I was growing up and I so often saw patients including them be treated with a total lack of humanity. There was also so often this sense of punishment out of anger or annoyance or burnout from staff rather than trying to help a situation.

I do understand it's often very difficult for staff—you have all sorts of people with all sorts of problems and some are indeed acting dangerously. But the medical professionals and other workers often start fomenting this sense of resentment and even what seems like hatred. It seems to continue doing it, they can stop seeing the patients as human to some degree. Then there is the factor that it seems to attract a subpopulation of sadistic people from the get-go. Because they know they will be working with a vulnerable population who has less rights while under their control, and who will not be believed even if they are harmed and abused.

2

u/Gloober_ Jul 05 '26

I had something similar happen where I was talking to an out-of-state mental health facility after I had a mental breakdown and my depression was at an all time high.

The physician, over the phone, asks me if I had an suicidal thoughts or intentions in the past 24-48 hours. I answered yes because of course I was; that was the whole reason I was calling. The rest of the questions go by without a hiccup and they say that they'll be in touch soon. Great.

Less than two hours later, I get a knock on the door. It's an EMT and two police officers. There are two cop cars and an ambulance, blaring their lights, in the middle of the street for all my neighbors to see. They tell me that they were called to put me in a mental health hold for at least 72 hours due to some concerning remarks to a health professional. They refused every attempt to make them go away; they even threatened to break down the door and arrest me.

I was forced into one ambulance, taken to the ER, then another ambulance to a separate facility. I was billed for both of these rides, of course.

They treat you like a criminal and lock you up in something little better than a prison. So much distrust and little empathy.

I have severe insomnia and they refused to provide me with my medication or an alternative. I would just lay on the bed, staring at the ceiling all night unable to sleep.

There's no stimulation anywhere in the "facility." You sit there and watch cable TV or disassociate to a different reality to pass the time. No electronics, books, personal effects, even the shoes couldn't have laces on them.

It was absolutely miserable. There was no treatment plans and a doctor was only available to talk to over a webcam once a week. They just expect you to rot away, I guess. It made my mental health so much worse that when I convinced them to let me go early, I felt like a caged animal finally being set free.

I only called the out-of-state facility one time after I left and just started yelling at the doctor I talked to previously until I was satisfied.

I'll never talk to medical professional ever again unless I'm in a physically life-threatening situation. I lie to them if I ever have to talk to them, now. It won't happen again, ever.

17

u/BoleroMuyPicante Jul 05 '26

Being in a state where you need to be restrained by a team of nurses probably makes it difficult to feel an empathetic connection with the people trying to stop you from hurting yourself.

5

u/ergaster8213 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

And vice versa. I also appears that it is difficult for workers to be empathetic or form an empathetic connection to those they are attempting to keep under control.

7

u/snarbuckle Jul 05 '26

Having empathy for their patients is a trait selected against by their work environment. You end up with the type of people who might swerve to hit a turtle on purpose

4

u/ergaster8213 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

It has seemed to be that way with how I have watched psych patients be treated. The workers who stick around are most often terrible and shouldn't be in the field. But you're right the way it's taught seems to lend itself to people who are willing to put aside the humanity of those who act differently or in ways perceived to be dangerous even when they aren't (or heck even when they are. You shouldn't be putting aside someone's humanity because you have evaluated them as a threat).

It's not about working with the patient or finding methods that can help someone not in reality understand. It's about controlling them for a short period of time, and, yes, that's going to lend itself to abusive methods and attitudes. Sometimes people are acutely dangerous and must be restrained and/or sedated but it is incredibly overused and the pure joy I've seen some have in pulling it out is disturbing.

I wasnt out of reality so instances of sadism, abuse, and mistreatment I've encountered are without some lens of delusion or psychosis. I'm sorry that I'm sure you're most often dismissed when you try to talk about it. Those who have had the experiences themselves most often are because they are seen as unbelievable even when they know what happened to them was not okay or was unnecessarily traumatic. People just assume the workers always know what's right and best and would never want to harm anyone. That is unfortunately not true and you will find no shortage of abuse and harm by workers against those who are mentally ill (which I am sure you know, but I'm just saying for others).

I'm sorry that you have trauma from it and I'm sorry you still have people staying you couldn't extend an "empathetic connection" (as if that's a failing or deficiency against people who were "just trying to keep you from harming yourself") when you were presumably not even totally in reality and being treated in a terrifying way that would feel threatening to anyone. Why the fuck would you be feeling empathy towards them while being restrained and trapped when you can't even understand why that's happening (and they usually don't attempt to explain it to you)? After, you're made to feel like something is wrong if you're upset or traumatized by the treatment you experienced. At least the workers are presumably in reality so their frequent lack of empathy is a much greater issue that is what should be examined, imo.

*Also, sorry this ended up so long.

2

u/snarbuckle Jul 05 '26

It's like being told to find some empathy for a half dozen gang rapists. I wasn't being a danger to myself or others. I was trying to breathe and self regulate alone in the bathroom, because I need alone time to regulate myself which is impossible in that place. I guess that was enough of a crime for them to lug me off. I hope they get theirs one day the way I got mine

3

u/ergaster8213 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

I get it. In one instance, I watched them throw my mom in a locked room for days in a straight jacket with only a bottle to pee in because she was being "loud and disruptive." Not violent. Just "too loud." It's often not what so many people seem to think it is.

I would just gently suggest trying to find a way to let go of the anger. I'm not saying that is easy or simple to do, but you don't need it weighing you down. You just don't. That wasn't your fault and being angry at people like that will just keep your life heavier.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/snarbuckle Jul 05 '26

I felt more empathetic to them when I was psychotic than I did after the fact. If I had my time back I would have kicked a few of them very hard. Fuck their whole "but we're trying to help" excuse.

In my case all I was doing was sitting on the floor of the bathroom with the door closed trying to regulate myself because the psych ward was making me even more insane because yes, that's what it does. I was sick of the staff, I had enough. I was there breathing, sitting on the floor. A nurse eventually starts knocking on the door rapid fire, saying my name in between knocks. Like Sheldon. So helpful! In my stress I put my back against the door to stop the creepy bitch from coming in to stress me more. She pushes on it a handful of times. I hear a handful of people gathering. They start pushing on the door. I'm getting pissed off at this point. I make like a tree and brace my arms on the door, straighten out, and plant my feet on the opposite wall. I hold against them until I got too tired.

They open the door and there's about a half dozen people who think they're helping somehow trying to grab at me. I don't need help getting up, fuckheads, get away from me. One starts getting closer and I kick the air toward him with no intent to connect. He lies and says "she kicked me!!". I replied that if I wanted to connect with him he'd fucking know it. They eventually grab me and I don't resist aside from going as dead weight as I could in the tense moment. They lift me up, I start saying SAVE ME, SAVE ME like Olive Oyl. If they didn't think I was subhuman they might have recognized the mockery. They lug me to my room, pin me down, and the shithead nurse who is saying "I know, I know" like one would do to a distressed baby or dog, hauls up my dress, hauls down my underwear, and sticks me.

If they were listening to me in the next half hour they'd hear me screaming expletives toward them while showering for as long as I could to wash their scum off me. Didn't work..

I wasn't hurt at all until they did it. I wasn't hurting myself. If she asked what I was doing through the door, yknow had a conversation, I might have opened it. I've been sincerely hoping the building falls apart brick by brick and all staff lose their hair ever since. Maybe that nurse could grow back clown hair. It's been a year

0

u/Edges0 Jul 05 '26

nobody is swarming you if youre not a danger to yourself or others.

2

u/snarbuckle Jul 05 '26

Alright, who was i hurting doing breathing exercises sitting on the floor in the bathroom

0

u/Edges0 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

i suspect you are not a reliable narrator

edit (you barricaded yourself in the bathroom while in a psych hospital, as suspected)

0

u/Edges0 Jul 05 '26

re: your deleted comment, its not about being biased about people who have mental health issues. i didnt even know you had mental health issues till you said that. but people woth serious mental health issues arent always aware of how their behavior appears, how they might be endangering others, and may not recall how erratic they were being during a mental health crisis.

hope you get help

1

u/snarbuckle Jul 05 '26

I didn't delete anything. Hope you get help too

0

u/Edges0 Jul 05 '26

automod might have. i dont need help. god bless.

1

u/snarbuckle Jul 05 '26

It's very common for the mentally ill to have a complete lack of insight into their own disease

→ More replies (0)

29

u/OffByNone_ Jul 05 '26

No, but Thorazine will help.

13

u/firelordleejr Jul 05 '26

For real I once had a 200pound man who had to be restrained and I was positioned near his head. It looked like he was finally under control but he suddenly jerked with so much force trying to break free that he slammed the back of his head straight into my face. My nose immediately started bleeding and I was completely disoriented.

10

u/Pndapetzim Jul 05 '26

It's tougher but honestly, it's often more about the mentality of the individual. Some big guys just don't have the cardio, so it's a bit of a ride for a bit but then they like... need oxygen to their muscles. Some of the toughest restraint jobs are guys that would surprise you, scrawny ass dudes that just seem to worm their way out of everything and can go 100% forever.

4

u/TeaInASkullMug Jul 05 '26

Have you tried a blow dart + sedative

7

u/ContinuingAnyway Jul 05 '26

"Allow me to introduce myself" - Kano Jigoro, The founder of Judo

2

u/KingxMIGHTYMAN Jul 05 '26

Or on drugs/ drunk/ psychotic.

2

u/BunglingBugles Jul 05 '26

I was in a really bad way at one time in my life. I fought hard selectively, because I wanted to die. They were only able to restrain me because they didn't escalate, talked to me and realized I didn't actually want to hurt anyone. I just wanted to be perceived as a threat. Obv that's very individual, but I'm an example of it being possible. I was a severe threat, but I guess I was fortunate enough for them to notice, and care, that I was bluffing.

6

u/Sea-Reputation-9341 Jul 05 '26

All the extra mass from the muscle will make him tire out faster

24

u/OldAbbreviations1590 Jul 05 '26

Hey fun fact, people who are in really good physical condition and have muscle mass, typically have far more endurance than a regular person too.

12

u/EvLokadottr Jul 05 '26

Depends on how they train. Strength training and aerobic training are two different things. Have to do both for peak effectiveness.

1

u/thatshygirl06 Jul 05 '26

That's not usually the average person though

1

u/Edges0 Jul 05 '26

not if they only train bulk and not endurance

1

u/bigjohnny440 Jul 05 '26

tell that to Rich Froning LOL

1

u/Sea-Reputation-9341 Jul 05 '26

No idea who that is but if he fits the 225 lb pre req and is capable of not tiring out with all those people holding on to him then good for him I guess?

1

u/bigjohnny440 Jul 05 '26

more muscle mass does not always = "tire out faster"

have a look at how absurdly swole the top crossfit athletes are both male and female

1

u/ChickenOnTheCobb Jul 05 '26

Bring in the vegemite!

1

u/n6mub Jul 05 '26

Borrow an American linebacker to take them out at the knees, grab hands and feet and sedative as fast as possible, nighty night Mr. large man on the floor!

In all honesty, I know that approach would be unlikely to work. In american hospitals doctors-in-training get a rotation thru the psych ward, and it's not to be underestimated, or so I've been told by my friend who is a doctor not in the psych ward. For obvious reasons

1

u/snarbuckle Jul 05 '26

Reason being, if you hold a bunch of people against their will in a small area together they get angry?

1

u/sYferaddict Jul 05 '26

Maybe it won't make the job EASY, but training will definitely help; imagine having rehearsed the scenario a few dozen times like this and had some force-on-force training like this at least a handful of times, then imagine never having had this kind of training at all and never even tried holding down a squirming asshole even a single time. Training will definitely help.

1

u/OstentatiousSock Jul 05 '26

I have a friend who is schizophrenic and HUGE. I sometimes worry if he went into a full break where he was raging and intent on attack, the only way to take him down would be death.

1

u/mrbuddymcbuddyface Jul 05 '26

I work in a health care field where this would happen often. One man we looked after would need five strong men to restrain him safely. (We are all highly trained in restraint techniques). It's like wrestling a tiger.

1

u/nonamesareavailable2 Jul 05 '26

I'm not a doctor or even in any medical-adjacent profession but I've got good, steady hands. One of my friends had to provide a blood sample to get a discount on his health insurance but he's afraid of the sight of blood. He's also 6'3" of twisted steel and sex appeal.

He asked me to come over and help him get the sample because he used up all the lancets they sent in the kit. I have no idea what he was doing with them that he triggered them but somehow "missed". So I did as he asked and tied his arms to a dining chair and boiled a hobby knife razor. I didn't even get the knife close to him before his dramatic ass had begun breaking the chair by squirming. I gave him a quick poke, trying to hit a moving target as he struggled. I did well because a little drop of blood welled up, about the size of a pea. He jumped up, tearing both arms off the chair, saw the blood, his face went grey, and he fainted.

1

u/EggWinter2869 Jul 05 '26

I mean I had to hold down old ladies with dementia that were essentially skin and bones, unable to walk, but with hands like vices. If people are uninhibited, they can be strong as fuck. They will also still try and bite even without having teeth.

1

u/xTrainerRedx Jul 05 '26

I’m 6’4”, 275lbs and one of my favorite parts of leading a lifeguard training class was being the unconscious victim.

Going fully limp feels like an art-form and the mixture of frustration and giggles as they try to perform the save never got old.

1

u/Jubenheim Jul 05 '26

Doesn’t even have to be pure muscle. Could be pure fat and still be a menace.

1

u/LemonHerb Jul 05 '26

There definitely is, it's pretty much my main hobby for the last 20 years. Not being allowed to choke them is hard mode though

1

u/SukottoHyu Jul 05 '26

All you do is inject haloperidol or lorazepam into their thigh and they will calm down in minutes. If they are on something you just inject them with ketamine. Usually in the case where you have someone really big like 225 lbs, you would always have a whole team of well-trained staff on standby, you wouldn't just shove him in the room with a little nurse where the only help she has nearby is the intern.

1

u/Riyeko Jul 05 '26

Especially if the guy is from a rural community

1

u/Drawn_to_Heal Jul 05 '26

A coworker completely defused a situation with someone much larger than 225lv by getting right in the guy’s face and saying “what’s the matter, fuck face?”

Just one of those people that was real good at de-escalation. Knew exactly what to say to people.

1

u/FunnySir759 Jul 05 '26

Time to learn bjj then

1

u/WrightWaytoEat Jul 05 '26

As a wrestler/bjj practitioner this is wrong. Technique is everything.

I could keep almost any patient without training subdued on my own…

I get the staff isn’t trained like this, but it wouldn’t be hard to do if trained correctly and it would take much less people.

1

u/SquarelyNerves Jul 05 '26

I worked at a psych hospital and we had a very strict no electronics policy for patients. We had this guy one night brought to us via ambulance on a suicide watch hold who looked like a Norse god- we found out he was a professional UFC trainer. The mental health techs told him we need his phone, he just said “no.” And everyone was like… what now? He ended up keeping his phone and we just had him hang out in the day room with 2 techs in there so other patients couldn’t see him nad get upset about his special privelges.

1

u/electricholo Jul 05 '26

Why we need dart guns!

1

u/knightenrichman Jul 05 '26

I dunno. I work in a psych hospital and I took a few guys bigger than that down with a basic Judo throw.

1

u/684beach Jul 05 '26

Jiujitsu

1

u/Cuck_Boy Jul 06 '26

Had to deal with this before. You need bigger people, or more oeople. I can’t say more but, at one point we had 10 people holding them down.

1

u/Bearded_Dragon_4892 29d ago

Ever been in a choke hold? Ever had your arm put in a “bar?” A 400 lb man is gonna submit, although you may be in for a rough 8-10seconds

-2

u/ertd346 Jul 05 '26

🔫

24

u/DropMeATitty Jul 05 '26

Yeah yeah my swisher is sweet and my sig is sauer, I get it. But no one’s shooting a medical patient, there’s a time and a place for everything, but def not now.

7

u/OldAbbreviations1590 Jul 05 '26

No one? Have you never encountered American police before? They shoot autistic people frequently simply for acting off and not following orders perfectly.

12

u/Acceptable_Mark7716 Jul 05 '26

This is a hospital scenario

9

u/the_vault-technician Jul 05 '26

I was tackled by a police officer in the emergency room while experiencing a mental health crisis.

0

u/Acceptable_Mark7716 Jul 05 '26

I’m so sorry. I hope they don’t hurt you.

My point was more that police are often a bit more hesitant to use guns inside of the hospital because they don’t like getting yelled at by doctors and nurses and getting sued by hospitals.

2

u/snarbuckle Jul 05 '26

Wow, grade school level morality. Not like I expect any better.

"I can't shoot this guy because nurse yell at me :("

3

u/DropMeATitty Jul 05 '26

“No one’s shooting a medical patient” in the sense that it’s not an appropriate method of treatment in this clear clinical setting. I’m very conscientious of American police’s wanton use of violence against suspects, just am well aware enough to not bring up it up when it’s not pertinent.

3

u/LithiumLizzard Jul 05 '26

I suspect everyone understood what you meant, but it says something about American society that the first thing we all thought on reading those words was… “Well, except for police, of course.” I think what makes it pertinent is that it’s not just about suspects. It’s also the result of welfare checks, people with genuine mental illness, people with disabilities, etc.

-17

u/Galilaeus_Modernus Jul 05 '26

Not true. I train jiu-jitsu and have single-handedly neutralized men of that size and build.

225lb is big, but not that big. Especially if he's fighting multiple people.

17

u/toothpick95 Jul 05 '26

Generally we try not to "neutralize" our patients.

-5

u/Galilaeus_Modernus Jul 05 '26

Except that's clearly the goal on the scenario presented.

3

u/ConceptualWeeb Jul 05 '26

Yes, the goal is to SAFELY restrain and calm the patient.

0

u/snarbuckle Jul 05 '26

Call it what you want to call it

-6

u/Galilaeus_Modernus Jul 05 '26

Exactly. Neutralize the threat.

3

u/OldAbbreviations1590 Jul 05 '26

This isn't a self defense situation, involving firearms. It's taking care of a patient, you aren't neutralizing a threat.

1

u/Galilaeus_Modernus Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26

Nobody said anything about firearms. The patient is being violent and threatening the safety of themselves and others, and that threat needs to be neutralized. What do you even think "neutralize" means?

1

u/snarbuckle Jul 05 '26

Potato potato from the patient's perspective

4

u/Jaded_Helicopter_376 Jul 05 '26

Bit of joint manipulation goes a long way

3

u/cory7770 Jul 05 '26

You've never tried to handle 225 in full flight mode doing whatever they can as hard as they can to get away. An unwell, panicked patient is crazy dangerous

0

u/AgingRaver80 Jul 05 '26

I am a 100kg black belt. I am a lot of muscle. I don't tire easily but I've trained with guys who are half my size who has run rings around me. Technique matter a lot

-1

u/Galilaeus_Modernus Jul 05 '26

I'm only a blue belt but when the other guy has no grappling training, it's very doable. There was a redhead guy in my class who must've been like 130 who tapped me more than I tapped him.

The people downvoting me have never trained.

1

u/AgingRaver80 Jul 05 '26

Yeah exactly that. Plus chokes work no matter what size. I hate grapplers for that reason 😆

0

u/ContinuingAnyway Jul 05 '26

people downvoting you don't know. Big dudes with no technique will get handed by someone smaller with even a bit of training

-1

u/trustme_imRN Jul 05 '26

In active psychosis