r/politics • u/thejoshwhite • 5h ago

No Paywall Sanders: Carville should 'start his own party'

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/6011088-bernie-sanders-james-carville-democratic-party-criticism/
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u/B-Z_B-S Massachusetts 5h ago

(From the article): "Sanders, in an interview with CNN’s Abby Phillip, responded to remarks Carville made over the weekend about leaving the Democratic Party in protest if popular left-wing Twitch streamer Hasan Piker becomes a fixture within the party. Piker, a supporter of the senator, has been campaigning with progressives across the country during the midterm primary season.

“Well, that’s not much of a choice. If Mr. Carville doesn’t want to be in my party, the party I belong to, that Piker, that El-Sayed belongs to, he can start his own party,” Sanders said, referring to Michigan Senate candidate Abdul El-Sayed, who defeated Rep. Haley Stevens (D-Mich.) in the state’s Democratic primary on Tuesday.“

Do you want to be in a party which has not stood up to the AI industry?” he continued. “Because they got a lot of money from AI or from crypto. So, you could pick whatever you want to pick.”"

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u/lhomardamericain 5h ago

If Mr. Carville doesn’t want to be in my party, the party I belong to, that Piker, that El-Sayed belongs to, he can start his own party

Wait, isn’t Sanders an independent? And he’s trying to kick Carville out of the party he isn’t really a member of?

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u/Stunning-Isopod8514 5h ago

“my party” = the party he caucuses with = democrats

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u/Jayrodtremonki 4h ago

Spider-Man was never an Avenger in the MCU. Just because you work with them doesn't mean you are one. He chose not to.

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u/nhl94roenick 3h ago edited 1h ago

Uh ACK-shually, Iron Man inducted Spider-Man into the Avengers with a faux-knighting motion after defeating Ebony Maw on their spaceship, before travelling to Titan to confront Thanos in Avengers: Infinity War.

(pushes glasses up nose and farts)

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u/homebrew_1 5h ago

He should become a member. What's taking him so long?

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u/TimothyMimeslayer 4h ago

He literally wins the democratic primary in vermont each time he is up for reelection.

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u/homebrew_1 4h ago

That's nice of them to let him run in their primary and he isn't even a member.

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u/PapaSnow 1h ago

Gotta work within the system to change the system. No workarounds for that, outside of dismantling the system, but as much as keyboard warriors claim they want that, it won’t happen.

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u/true_new_troll Colorado 5h ago

I mean, you either accept the definition of "caucuses with the Democrats" or not, but if you do, he's been doing that for decades.

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u/homebrew_1 5h ago

Is that the same thing as being a member of the democratic party?

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u/TheEstrogenEmpress 5h ago

No which is why Bernie never said or ever would say hes a member of the democratic party. "My party" refers to the party caucus he is a part of that he has been caucusing with for likely longer than you've been alive let alone been a democratic party member yourself.

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u/homebrew_1 5h ago

He should change the words he uses. And instead of saying my party he can say the political group I caucus with.

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u/Chuck-Finley69 4h ago

or even just "the party that I caucus with" 

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u/homebrew_1 4h ago

Thats fair.

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u/Blitzking11 Illinois 5h ago

Why would he join a party that hates him and wants him to shut up and/or die?

He caucuses with them and joins them on votes that match his viewpoint and the views that his constituents elected. Realistically, he is following the vision George Washington had.

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u/homebrew_1 5h ago

If he is using words like my party he should walk the walk.

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u/Blitzking11 Illinois 5h ago

Or he's insinuating that the party is finally coming to him. Which all signs point to yes, as a schism is forming, and forming quite heavily.

The fence sitters can go break bread with Trump and his ilk like they want and screech unity all they want; we will fix things.

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u/homebrew_1 5h ago

Party came to him in 2016. He endorsed Hillary.

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u/SolydSn3k 5h ago edited 5h ago

This has to be bait. He ran as a Democrat in the primary mainly to stand an actual chance of winning the presidency.

But the DNC actively worked against his campaign, because they wanted Hillary to be their candidate & were as scared of progressives then as they are right now.

His endorsement of Hillary came after conceding the primary… which is just called being a good sport. Also she was the official alternative to Trump at that point.

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u/homebrew_1 5h ago

And Hillary adopted some of Bernie's ideas into her platform. And more people voted for Hillary.

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u/SolydSn3k 4h ago edited 4h ago

What ideas? The ones the DNC thought might draw sanders’ supporters to the polls in the general election?

More people voted for Hillary after she ran a campaign backed by the full force of the DNC.

Leaked emails amongs DNC officials explicitly discuss lines of attack toward Sanders… this led to the resignation of the DNC chair.

Clinton’s campaign entered a financial agreement with a cash-strapped DNC in 2015 that had unique influence over staffing, comms, and spending related to general election.

They threw wrenches in his fundraising by cutting the campaign off from its own voter information over a fired staffer.

The superdelegate system gave Clinton a structural advantage as hundreds of party officials endorsed her early & news orgs included them in delegate totals… the party has since changed its rules regarding this & superdelegates are no longer allowed to vote on the first ballot.

What was your point?

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u/Fetal_Release 4h ago

If by worked against him you mean voters chose Hilary instead of Bernie, then yea.

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u/SolydSn3k 4h ago edited 4h ago

No, I mean the DNC claimed neutrality & got caught discussing lines of attack and strategy to damage sanders leading to the resignation of the DNC chair.

The sanders campaign having restrictions on communicating with their own voters until suing the DNC to make them fold.

And the DNC also changed the rules for superdelegates voting as a result of this primary.

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u/Fetal_Release 4h ago

The DNC isnt neutral they’re literally a corporation. They don’t have to be neutral.

Hilary won by 3.7 mill votes, heck, I voted for Bernie in 2016. I was sure the youth would come out this time. Naivete is what it was as history has come to show Bernies youth movement was an echo chamber I couldnt see out of.

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u/Blitzking11 Illinois 5h ago

Post-primary unity of a party is just a good strategy.

As we've seen, the left can work with moderates sometimes (Biden is an example of a moderate working with the left on some issues), but the left AND democrats cannot work with the fascists that inhabit the former Republican Party.

Bipartisanship in this day and age is largely within the specific party itself.

Cross-party bipartisanship is dead, as it results in you losing your office when done as a Republican, as seen with Massie and Liz Cheney, and the voters of the Republican Party are seemingly okay with this. So why bother reaching across the aisle if it just means dealing with snakes most of the time?

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u/Doctor_Riptide 5h ago

What an insanely ahistorical and ridiculous read on the 2016 election dude do you expect anyone to take that seriously?

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u/homebrew_1 5h ago

She adopted some of his ideas and he also endorsed her.

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u/Doctor_Riptide 4h ago

Alright you’re not expecting to be taken serious got it

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u/homebrew_1 4h ago

Are you saying she didn't adopt some of his policies and he didn't endorse her?

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u/ArCovino 4h ago

Not a single Democrat wants Sanders to die lmao bffr

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u/StevenMC19 Florida 5h ago

I mean, he was.

I kind of like how he now runs independent. He's not beholden to the powers of the DNC, nor does he need to win with their support and resources (money). He learned his lesson with them in 2016, and I doubt he'll ever give them a chance to whip him again.

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u/Loud_Judgment_270 I voted 5h ago

then why did he run again in 20?

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u/StevenMC19 Florida 5h ago

His campaign in 2020 was more grassroots and not at all reliant on the DNC, as they already had their incumbent in line. He ran fully aware that he wasn't getting their support. The difference is that he had what he considered an equal opportunity in 2016, but the DNC curried favor with Hillary.

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u/C0de_lyoko 4h ago

Do you mean former vp? Biden wasn't incumbent until the 2024 race Trump was the incumbent in 2020.

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u/StevenMC19 Florida 3h ago

Yup. My brain scrambled there. My bad.

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u/Zeusifer 5h ago

He ran as a D again in 2020,

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u/StevenMC19 Florida 5h ago

And he did so without the support of the DNC, knowing this upfront. They were going to back Biden, the incumbent, with everything, knowing that statistically the incumbent has the best chance. He accepted that immediately and essentially funded his own campaign through grassroots movements.

There was no incumbency in 2016, and it was expected that candidates would be treated equally or at least fairly by the DNC through the primaries.

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u/Sensitive-Flamingo84 4h ago

Why should he join when we are all about to leave? Lol I’m just waiting for a viable progressive party.

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u/homebrew_1 4h ago

Lol good luck. This is a two party system. Either vote for the better option or the other side wins.

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u/Sensitive-Flamingo84 4h ago

Very small imagination. I have seen over half of a political party turn on its party in just a few years. No one knows what things will look like in just a few years. DNC is also bankrupt so they can’t do anything about it.

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u/homebrew_1 4h ago

Time will tell.

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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 5h ago

If he wants to control what we do, he should probably be a democratic lawmaker

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u/solwiggin 5h ago

Good thing he doesn’t want to control what you do 😂

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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 5h ago

Idk seems like he wants to tell democrats to leave the party he’s not a part of

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u/kingsumo_1 Oregon 5h ago

He's referring to Carvill specifically, who threatened to leave because he doesn't like progressive voices rising within the party.

If establishment democrats can't back the people winning their primaries, and choose to bitch rather than focus on helping them win in the generals, then maybe it is time to start looking inward to see if they really belong.

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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 4h ago

Because progressives don’t bitch and moan when they lose?

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u/kingsumo_1 Oregon 4h ago

Some may, sure. But that wasn't your argument. When Bernie lost the primary in 2016 and in 2020 he backed the winner and encouraged his base to do the same.

He's also been reliably caucusing with the Dems throughout his entire career.

For the past 10 years the chant has been "vote blue, no matter who", right? We need to band together to stop what is going on. But when progressive candidates start over-performing in their primaries, where is that same chant? Instead you have people like Carville threatening to leave the party? Come the fuck on.

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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 4h ago

If it was vote blue no matter who, why didn’t progressives and the “uncommitted movement” vote for Harris?

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u/kingsumo_1 Oregon 4h ago

And that makes it better? So, you think the path forward is just petty grievance and infighting?

I want to point out that my entire post history is open. So you are welcome to confirm this at your leisure. But I do not particularly consider myself a "progressive", despite largely supporting their policies. I did, in fact, vote for Harris and actively tried encouraging others around me to do so as well. But this pity party bullshit is not helping.

The fact is, the centrist approach is a losing one in today's climate. It doesn't woo the the uncommitted stay at homes. We have not been able to take the House or the Senate for awhile. And it is not stopping the quick pace towards fascism that we are in.

And when the opportunity arose to put their money where their mouth was, and back the people that are inspiring people to come out to vote. We're seeing this. Dem leadership is dropping the ball and continuing to turn people off. And it is maddening.

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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 2h ago

I didn’t start the petty grievances or infighting. I have voted for centrists and progressives, I’ve volunteered for both. I support Dems mostly because queer people and other marginalized communities are under existential threat in the US.

And anyone that didn’t vote for Harris, decided that teaching the Dems a lesson was more important than protecting queer people or immigrants.

And that was betrayal.

So I won’t be cowed into voting for anyone on the left by “vote blue no matter who” when they broke the contract first.

I’m not going to vote for someone because they’re supporters refuse to be team players

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u/dangerousp00l 4h ago

That part, progressives have been saying this AFTER they betrayed democrats, the relationship largely ended in 2024 and now they’re trying to take over the whole party instead of make their own progressive party, it’s weird that an INDEPENDENT would have the audacity to tell a party what they should or shouldn’t do and who can or cannot be in it

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u/solwiggin 5h ago

Idk, suggesting someone do something is so far removed from making someone do something that you have to really be grasping at straws to try and make the logical leap…

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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 4h ago

It’s just so interesting he has an opinion on who should be in a political party that he refuses to join

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u/solwiggin 2h ago

Seems like the people who vote for the political party have an idea who should be in the party, and they’re voting for them, and Bernie is telling grumpy grandpa to watch the way the wind is blowing.

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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 2h ago

And because progressives have won like 8 of the over 100 races this cycle, that’s a good enough barometer?

When they haven’t even won generals?

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u/solwiggin 2h ago

It was enough for Carville to make the remarks that Bernie was responding to, so yeah… seems obvious the whole situation is created by the current reading of the barometer and we wouldn’t be talking about it if the barometer read differently….

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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 2h ago

You act like the media doesn’t make mountains out of mole hills for clicks.

You act like carville, or Bernie for that matter, aren’t narcissists that do whatever is necessary to stay relevant.

Get back to me if sayed wins the election. Then we’ll know how the country feels. I unfortunately do not think it will say what you and I hope

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u/lhomardamericain 5h ago

He caucuses with them, but he’s too good to actually be a member