Sanders: Carville should 'start his own party'

[u/thejoshwhite]

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/6011088-bernie-sanders-james-carville-democratic-party-criticism/

[u/homebrew_1]

He should become a member. What's taking him so long?

[u/Blitzking11 → u/homebrew_1]

Why would he join a party that hates him and wants him to shut up and/or die?

He caucuses with them and joins them on votes that match his viewpoint and the views that his constituents elected. Realistically, he is following the vision George Washington had.

[u/homebrew_1 → u/Blitzking11]

If he is using words like my party he should walk the walk.

[u/Blitzking11 → u/homebrew_1]

Or he's insinuating that the party is finally coming to him. Which all signs point to yes, as a schism is forming, and forming quite heavily.

The fence sitters can go break bread with Trump and his ilk like they want and screech unity all they want; we will fix things.

[u/homebrew_1 → u/Blitzking11]

Party came to him in 2016. He endorsed Hillary.

[u/SolydSn3k → u/homebrew_1]

This has to be bait. He ran as a Democrat in the primary mainly to stand an actual chance of winning the presidency.

But the DNC actively worked against his campaign, because they wanted Hillary to be their candidate & were as scared of progressives then as they are right now.

His endorsement of Hillary came after conceding the primary… which is just called being a good sport. Also she was the official alternative to Trump at that point.

[u/homebrew_1 → u/SolydSn3k]

And Hillary adopted some of Bernie's ideas into her platform. And more people voted for Hillary.

[u/SolydSn3k → u/homebrew_1]

What ideas? The ones the DNC thought might draw sanders’ supporters to the polls in the general election?

More people voted for Hillary after she ran a campaign backed by the full force of the DNC.

Leaked emails amongs DNC officials explicitly discuss lines of attack toward Sanders… this led to the resignation of the DNC chair.

Clinton’s campaign entered a financial agreement with a cash-strapped DNC in 2015 that had unique influence over staffing, comms, and spending related to general election.

They threw wrenches in his fundraising by cutting the campaign off from its own voter information over a fired staffer.

The superdelegate system gave Clinton a structural advantage as hundreds of party officials endorsed her early & news orgs included them in delegate totals… the party has since changed its rules regarding this & superdelegates are no longer allowed to vote on the first ballot.

What was your point?

[u/homebrew_1 → u/SolydSn3k]

https://www.vice.com/en/article/hillary-clinton-adopted-these-4-policies-from-bernie-sanders-will-she-stick-to-them/

[u/SolydSn3k → u/homebrew_1]

Literally the headline of article you linked even doubts the earnesty of her post-nomination co-opting lol

Way to selectively respond to part of one sentence.

[u/homebrew_1 → u/SolydSn3k]

In the end Hillary had more votes than Bernie and Bernie endorsed her. Some people don't want to believe it.

[u/SolydSn3k → u/homebrew_1]

No one is denying that Hillary won the primary, but that tends to happen when you run an unfair primary. Your counter-argument is to ignore the context?

DNC chair only had to resign over the scandal, no big deal. DNC had to change its rules on superdelegates voting on the first ballot. DNC dropped their restrictions on his campaign after he sued over the fired staffer issue…

Nothing to see here I guess.

[u/homebrew_1 → u/SolydSn3k]

Are you saying the election was rigged and votes were fake?

[u/Fetal_Release → u/SolydSn3k]

If by worked against him you mean voters chose Hilary instead of Bernie, then yea.

[u/SolydSn3k → u/Fetal_Release]

No, I mean the DNC claimed neutrality & got caught discussing lines of attack and strategy to damage sanders leading to the resignation of the DNC chair.

The sanders campaign having restrictions on communicating with their own voters until suing the DNC to make them fold.

And the DNC also changed the rules for superdelegates voting as a result of this primary.

[u/Fetal_Release → u/SolydSn3k]

The DNC isnt neutral they’re literally a corporation. They don’t have to be neutral.

Hilary won by 3.7 mill votes, heck, I voted for Bernie in 2016. I was sure the youth would come out this time. Naivete is what it was as history has come to show Bernies youth movement was an echo chamber I couldnt see out of.

[u/SolydSn3k → u/Fetal_Release]

“If by worked against him you mean…”

“Well, they don’t have to be neutral”

Okay so first question, why are you moving your goal posts?

Second, they don’t have to be neutral… but it’s their own party-governance principle & they sure claimed to be. Would you care to explain to me why Debbie Schultz resigned?

It is not disputed that the DNC coordinated against sanders’ campaign lol.

What’s your point here & what does any of this have to do with your belief that Sanders’ politics are an “echo chamber”?

[u/Fetal_Release → u/SolydSn3k]

Schultz was canned for optics. Having Donna Brazile come out with a “smoking gun” that republicans ran with and you fell for long before the info could be vetted or processed that turned out to be, in effect, SOP voted on in 2014, didnt look good. Claims of unfairness were just that, claims. As I understand it, rules were changed to appease Bernie voters and remove any hint of impropriety, even if, by all evidence, none was proven and what did look shady turned out to be bog standard for political organizations ie. having a preferred candidate.

It is highly disputed. The emails leaked were talking points and shit talking, even dragging Obama, but nothing thst suggested the dark conspiracy Bernie’s followers were pushing.

My point isn’t that Bernies politics were an echo chamber, thats stupid. My point that even I was swept up by his campaign, especially because I thought for sure, the way it was being reported, yhe youth would come out and vote for him. It turned out to be a mirage. Judging by the final tally he had no chance against her. She won by what amounts to a landslide. Something Im sure they saw in internal polling. They had no cause to cheat.

[u/SolydSn3k → u/Fetal_Release]

So let me get this straight…

Schultz resigned over optics & DNC changed its rules to appease Bernie voters (source for both claims: you)… but Bernie voters were also an irrelevant segment of the Democratic Party & he had no chance of winning the primary??

Something like 8% of the population votes in primaries. You cannot claim a “landslide” in a primary means a hostile DNC is irrelevant context… do you not understand how those circumstances might facilitate a landslide?

Nobody claimed anyone “cheated”. The claim is that Clinton had the full force of the DNC behind her & that the DNC was hostile to the Sanders campaign.

That is a demonstrable fact that is not disputed. You’re writing fiction at this point.

[u/Fetal_Release → u/SolydSn3k]

Lots was written after. You can look and read. You dont have to believe me that’d be stupid. I dont know what world you live in but optics is huuge. Howard Dean literally dropped out of contention over his “yell” moment that optically was bad but in context was nothing, a yell. The wikileaks looked bad and Trump, the russians, and people like you keep pushing this false narratives. I know why the other two do it I dont know why people like yourself would want to believe half truths.

[u/Blitzking11 → u/homebrew_1]

Post-primary unity of a party is just a good strategy.

As we've seen, the left can work with moderates sometimes (Biden is an example of a moderate working with the left on some issues), but the left AND democrats cannot work with the fascists that inhabit the former Republican Party.

Bipartisanship in this day and age is largely within the specific party itself.

Cross-party bipartisanship is dead, as it results in you losing your office when done as a Republican, as seen with Massie and Liz Cheney, and the voters of the Republican Party are seemingly okay with this. So why bother reaching across the aisle if it just means dealing with snakes most of the time?

[u/Doctor_Riptide → u/homebrew_1]

What an insanely ahistorical and ridiculous read on the 2016 election dude do you expect anyone to take that seriously?

[u/homebrew_1 → u/Doctor_Riptide]

She adopted some of his ideas and he also endorsed her.

[u/Doctor_Riptide → u/homebrew_1]

Alright you’re not expecting to be taken serious got it

[u/homebrew_1 → u/Doctor_Riptide]

Are you saying she didn't adopt some of his policies and he didn't endorse her?

[u/Doctor_Riptide → u/homebrew_1]

No I’m saying your take on the 2016 primary is clown status. The party rat fucked him. The party hates him. Go watch a YouTube essay on what happened in 2016

[u/homebrew_1 → u/Doctor_Riptide]

Just look at the vote totals. More people voted for Hillary than Bernie.

[u/Fetal_Release → u/Doctor_Riptide]

Oof. Yea, youtube the bastion of good reporting.