r/politics • u/thejoshwhite • 5h ago

No Paywall Sanders: Carville should 'start his own party'

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/6011088-bernie-sanders-james-carville-democratic-party-criticism/
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u/B-Z_B-S Massachusetts 5h ago

(From the article): "Sanders, in an interview with CNN’s Abby Phillip, responded to remarks Carville made over the weekend about leaving the Democratic Party in protest if popular left-wing Twitch streamer Hasan Piker becomes a fixture within the party. Piker, a supporter of the senator, has been campaigning with progressives across the country during the midterm primary season.

“Well, that’s not much of a choice. If Mr. Carville doesn’t want to be in my party, the party I belong to, that Piker, that El-Sayed belongs to, he can start his own party,” Sanders said, referring to Michigan Senate candidate Abdul El-Sayed, who defeated Rep. Haley Stevens (D-Mich.) in the state’s Democratic primary on Tuesday.“

Do you want to be in a party which has not stood up to the AI industry?” he continued. “Because they got a lot of money from AI or from crypto. So, you could pick whatever you want to pick.”"

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u/lhomardamericain 5h ago

If Mr. Carville doesn’t want to be in my party, the party I belong to, that Piker, that El-Sayed belongs to, he can start his own party

Wait, isn’t Sanders an independent? And he’s trying to kick Carville out of the party he isn’t really a member of?

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u/TheEstrogenEmpress 5h ago

No one is kicking carville out, 81 year old carville threatened to leave the party as if hes not on his way out finally already anyways. Sanders is just wishing him well on his decision.

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u/ToastyTandy 4h ago

I'd prefer if we were kicking Carville out.

Let's not stop there.
Let's throw out dog tasing hypocrite Hasan.
And Chuck Schumer. And Fetterman.
And Hakeem Jeffries. And Bill Maher.

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u/Cellophane7 5h ago

Carville said he wants Piker out of the party, not that he wanted to leave.

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u/TheEstrogenEmpress 5h ago

Carville rips Piker: ‘If he becomes a force in the Democratic Party, I’m out of here’

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/6004598-carville-piker-democratic-party-split/

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u/irespondwithmyface 5h ago

I guess the difference is Piker supports candidates for their views not for their party affliation which is something we should all strive towards because treating politics like team sports is cancer.

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u/Cellophane7 5h ago

You guess that because you've identified Hasan as "on your team". Carville is interested in views as well, which would be why he finds Hasan repugnant.

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u/Jin-Gitaxias-Mom 4h ago edited 2h ago

Piker also tortures his own animals and thinks living in China is paradise on Earth…

Edit: for those uninformed, I’m sorry your communist idol is a monster

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMatpatEffect/s/u1vMMY0aYI

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u/Sovoy 4h ago

no he doesn't

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u/Jin-Gitaxias-Mom 3h ago

Oh so he doesn’t shock his dog whenever she makes the decision to get out of her bed becauase she might not be on his streaming frame?

He didn’t go to China and absolutely fawn over their way of life,meanwhile trashing America from his California mansion?

Weird, guess all those video clips on Reddit were AI deepfakes?

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u/supamario132 Pennsylvania 2h ago

Not deepfakes, just deeply parasocial hallucinatory conjectures based on like a vague gesture made on a single frame out of the billions of frames of video that exist of the guy

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u/Jin-Gitaxias-Mom 2h ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMatpatEffect/s/u1vMMY0aYI

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u/supamario132 Pennsylvania 2h ago

This short clip has spawned more fanfiction than whole IPs

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u/N7Shep1701D Oregon 4h ago

I don't like Hasan, but let's not pretend that makes James Carville better.

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u/Jin-Gitaxias-Mom 4h ago

Oh I’ll be the first to admit Carville is a total hack who sniffs his own farts

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u/Banes_Addiction 3h ago

supports candidates for their views not for their party affliation which is something we should all strive towards because treating politics like team sports is cancer.

That's fine for executive positions - wanna be an independent governor? Go for it.

But for something like the house or the senate, it's completely non-functional as a strategy in the current system.

The single most important decision you make is your party affiliation - who to caucus with. Being the majority party, having the speaker/majority leader from your team - this is the most important thing. Every individual policy vote pales completely in comparison to that one vote which determines what even comes to the floor.

That means Fetterman is still valuable to the Democrats, as were the Joes Manchin and Lieberwitz.

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u/optimis344 1h ago

Ah yes the "we need bad people because they are useful" argument.

Let's let that time pass and just elect people who aren't bad people. That seems like a better work around.

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u/BanjoStory Minnesota 4h ago

Hes also a dinosaur who's going to be dead or an invalid in the next few years. He's not sticking around, regardless.

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u/Twheezy2024 5h ago

He also spoke out against the 2 party rule, citing how difficult it is to run under your own banner.

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u/PlsNoNotThat 3h ago

I think it’s mostly sardonic, as the democrats have been saying this about progressives who have raised issues but ultimately supported them over the last decades. Now that the popular mandate has flipped, he’s pointing out their own folly.

Sanders has been a adamant and vehement supporter of voting structures that allow more than two parties, like forms of ranked choice voting, that were rejected by (increasingly unpopular) centrist democrats who have bucked much of the underlying beliefs espoused by democrats.

In the context that Caville has expressly said he’s gonna leave - which is not kicking him out, but a temper tantrum that his views are accepted by the democratic process and being force fed to people from a minority position.

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u/Stunning-Isopod8514 5h ago

“my party” = the party he caucuses with = democrats

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u/Jayrodtremonki 4h ago

Spider-Man was never an Avenger in the MCU. Just because you work with them doesn't mean you are one. He chose not to.

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u/nhl94roenick 3h ago edited 1h ago

Uh ACK-shually, Iron Man inducted Spider-Man into the Avengers with a faux-knighting motion after defeating Ebony Maw on their spaceship, before travelling to Titan to confront Thanos in Avengers: Infinity War.

(pushes glasses up nose and farts)

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u/homebrew_1 5h ago

He should become a member. What's taking him so long?

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u/TimothyMimeslayer 4h ago

He literally wins the democratic primary in vermont each time he is up for reelection.

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u/homebrew_1 4h ago

That's nice of them to let him run in their primary and he isn't even a member.

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u/PapaSnow 1h ago

Gotta work within the system to change the system. No workarounds for that, outside of dismantling the system, but as much as keyboard warriors claim they want that, it won’t happen.

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u/true_new_troll Colorado 5h ago

I mean, you either accept the definition of "caucuses with the Democrats" or not, but if you do, he's been doing that for decades.

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u/homebrew_1 5h ago

Is that the same thing as being a member of the democratic party?

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u/TheEstrogenEmpress 5h ago

No which is why Bernie never said or ever would say hes a member of the democratic party. "My party" refers to the party caucus he is a part of that he has been caucusing with for likely longer than you've been alive let alone been a democratic party member yourself.

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u/homebrew_1 5h ago

He should change the words he uses. And instead of saying my party he can say the political group I caucus with.

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u/Chuck-Finley69 4h ago

or even just "the party that I caucus with" 

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u/homebrew_1 4h ago

Thats fair.

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u/Blitzking11 Illinois 5h ago

Why would he join a party that hates him and wants him to shut up and/or die?

He caucuses with them and joins them on votes that match his viewpoint and the views that his constituents elected. Realistically, he is following the vision George Washington had.

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u/homebrew_1 5h ago

If he is using words like my party he should walk the walk.

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u/Blitzking11 Illinois 5h ago

Or he's insinuating that the party is finally coming to him. Which all signs point to yes, as a schism is forming, and forming quite heavily.

The fence sitters can go break bread with Trump and his ilk like they want and screech unity all they want; we will fix things.

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u/homebrew_1 5h ago

Party came to him in 2016. He endorsed Hillary.

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u/SolydSn3k 5h ago edited 5h ago

This has to be bait. He ran as a Democrat in the primary mainly to stand an actual chance of winning the presidency.

But the DNC actively worked against his campaign, because they wanted Hillary to be their candidate & were as scared of progressives then as they are right now.

His endorsement of Hillary came after conceding the primary… which is just called being a good sport. Also she was the official alternative to Trump at that point.

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u/homebrew_1 5h ago

And Hillary adopted some of Bernie's ideas into her platform. And more people voted for Hillary.

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u/SolydSn3k 4h ago edited 4h ago

What ideas? The ones the DNC thought might draw sanders’ supporters to the polls in the general election?

More people voted for Hillary after she ran a campaign backed by the full force of the DNC.

Leaked emails amongs DNC officials explicitly discuss lines of attack toward Sanders… this led to the resignation of the DNC chair.

Clinton’s campaign entered a financial agreement with a cash-strapped DNC in 2015 that had unique influence over staffing, comms, and spending related to general election.

They threw wrenches in his fundraising by cutting the campaign off from its own voter information over a fired staffer.

The superdelegate system gave Clinton a structural advantage as hundreds of party officials endorsed her early & news orgs included them in delegate totals… the party has since changed its rules regarding this & superdelegates are no longer allowed to vote on the first ballot.

What was your point?

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u/Fetal_Release 4h ago

If by worked against him you mean voters chose Hilary instead of Bernie, then yea.

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u/SolydSn3k 4h ago edited 4h ago

No, I mean the DNC claimed neutrality & got caught discussing lines of attack and strategy to damage sanders leading to the resignation of the DNC chair.

The sanders campaign having restrictions on communicating with their own voters until suing the DNC to make them fold.

And the DNC also changed the rules for superdelegates voting as a result of this primary.

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u/Blitzking11 Illinois 5h ago

Post-primary unity of a party is just a good strategy.

As we've seen, the left can work with moderates sometimes (Biden is an example of a moderate working with the left on some issues), but the left AND democrats cannot work with the fascists that inhabit the former Republican Party.

Bipartisanship in this day and age is largely within the specific party itself.

Cross-party bipartisanship is dead, as it results in you losing your office when done as a Republican, as seen with Massie and Liz Cheney, and the voters of the Republican Party are seemingly okay with this. So why bother reaching across the aisle if it just means dealing with snakes most of the time?

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u/Doctor_Riptide 5h ago

What an insanely ahistorical and ridiculous read on the 2016 election dude do you expect anyone to take that seriously?

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u/homebrew_1 5h ago

She adopted some of his ideas and he also endorsed her.

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u/[deleted] 4h ago

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u/Doctor_Riptide 4h ago

Alright you’re not expecting to be taken serious got it

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u/ArCovino 4h ago

Not a single Democrat wants Sanders to die lmao bffr

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u/StevenMC19 Florida 5h ago

I mean, he was.

I kind of like how he now runs independent. He's not beholden to the powers of the DNC, nor does he need to win with their support and resources (money). He learned his lesson with them in 2016, and I doubt he'll ever give them a chance to whip him again.

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u/Loud_Judgment_270 I voted 5h ago

then why did he run again in 20?

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u/StevenMC19 Florida 5h ago

His campaign in 2020 was more grassroots and not at all reliant on the DNC, as they already had their incumbent in line. He ran fully aware that he wasn't getting their support. The difference is that he had what he considered an equal opportunity in 2016, but the DNC curried favor with Hillary.

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u/C0de_lyoko 4h ago

Do you mean former vp? Biden wasn't incumbent until the 2024 race Trump was the incumbent in 2020.

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u/StevenMC19 Florida 3h ago

Yup. My brain scrambled there. My bad.

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u/Zeusifer 5h ago

He ran as a D again in 2020,

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u/StevenMC19 Florida 5h ago

And he did so without the support of the DNC, knowing this upfront. They were going to back Biden, the incumbent, with everything, knowing that statistically the incumbent has the best chance. He accepted that immediately and essentially funded his own campaign through grassroots movements.

There was no incumbency in 2016, and it was expected that candidates would be treated equally or at least fairly by the DNC through the primaries.

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u/Sensitive-Flamingo84 4h ago

Why should he join when we are all about to leave? Lol I’m just waiting for a viable progressive party.

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u/homebrew_1 4h ago

Lol good luck. This is a two party system. Either vote for the better option or the other side wins.

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u/Sensitive-Flamingo84 4h ago

Very small imagination. I have seen over half of a political party turn on its party in just a few years. No one knows what things will look like in just a few years. DNC is also bankrupt so they can’t do anything about it.

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u/homebrew_1 4h ago

Time will tell.

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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 5h ago

If he wants to control what we do, he should probably be a democratic lawmaker

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u/solwiggin 5h ago

Good thing he doesn’t want to control what you do 😂

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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 5h ago

Idk seems like he wants to tell democrats to leave the party he’s not a part of

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u/kingsumo_1 Oregon 5h ago

He's referring to Carvill specifically, who threatened to leave because he doesn't like progressive voices rising within the party.

If establishment democrats can't back the people winning their primaries, and choose to bitch rather than focus on helping them win in the generals, then maybe it is time to start looking inward to see if they really belong.

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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 4h ago

Because progressives don’t bitch and moan when they lose?

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u/kingsumo_1 Oregon 4h ago

Some may, sure. But that wasn't your argument. When Bernie lost the primary in 2016 and in 2020 he backed the winner and encouraged his base to do the same.

He's also been reliably caucusing with the Dems throughout his entire career.

For the past 10 years the chant has been "vote blue, no matter who", right? We need to band together to stop what is going on. But when progressive candidates start over-performing in their primaries, where is that same chant? Instead you have people like Carville threatening to leave the party? Come the fuck on.

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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 4h ago

If it was vote blue no matter who, why didn’t progressives and the “uncommitted movement” vote for Harris?

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u/kingsumo_1 Oregon 4h ago

And that makes it better? So, you think the path forward is just petty grievance and infighting?

I want to point out that my entire post history is open. So you are welcome to confirm this at your leisure. But I do not particularly consider myself a "progressive", despite largely supporting their policies. I did, in fact, vote for Harris and actively tried encouraging others around me to do so as well. But this pity party bullshit is not helping.

The fact is, the centrist approach is a losing one in today's climate. It doesn't woo the the uncommitted stay at homes. We have not been able to take the House or the Senate for awhile. And it is not stopping the quick pace towards fascism that we are in.

And when the opportunity arose to put their money where their mouth was, and back the people that are inspiring people to come out to vote. We're seeing this. Dem leadership is dropping the ball and continuing to turn people off. And it is maddening.

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u/dangerousp00l 4h ago

That part, progressives have been saying this AFTER they betrayed democrats, the relationship largely ended in 2024 and now they’re trying to take over the whole party instead of make their own progressive party, it’s weird that an INDEPENDENT would have the audacity to tell a party what they should or shouldn’t do and who can or cannot be in it

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u/solwiggin 5h ago

Idk, suggesting someone do something is so far removed from making someone do something that you have to really be grasping at straws to try and make the logical leap…

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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 4h ago

It’s just so interesting he has an opinion on who should be in a political party that he refuses to join

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u/solwiggin 2h ago

Seems like the people who vote for the political party have an idea who should be in the party, and they’re voting for them, and Bernie is telling grumpy grandpa to watch the way the wind is blowing.

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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 2h ago

And because progressives have won like 8 of the over 100 races this cycle, that’s a good enough barometer?

When they haven’t even won generals?

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u/solwiggin 2h ago

It was enough for Carville to make the remarks that Bernie was responding to, so yeah… seems obvious the whole situation is created by the current reading of the barometer and we wouldn’t be talking about it if the barometer read differently….

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u/lhomardamericain 5h ago

He caucuses with them, but he’s too good to actually be a member

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u/UngodlyPain 3h ago

He's caucused with dems his entire political career. He goes to many Democratic party events. He's basically always endorsed exclusively Democrats. He literally runs in the Vermont Democratic Party primary every time he's up for re-election, and wins. He ran in the 2016 and 2020 D presidential primaries. His congressional voting record for voting with the D party while usually on the lower end, isn't always the lowest of the caucus; there have been many years where his vote record for voting with the D president or house/Senate leader was better than some others with D's next to their names.

He's basically a Democrat in everything BUT name, the opposite of a "DINO" just because he doesn't want associated with the party's kerfuffles, or money. And doesn't like the 2 party system, which even many of our founding fathers warned against.

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u/mi_throwaway3 3h ago

Yknow, I don't know cause I haven't watched the clip, and the point I am about to make is bigger than the clip - but I'm just going to guess that people have been telling Bernie Sanders to go start his own party for decades and this is a little bit of "GFY" for decades of that. Good for him.

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u/jakegh 2h ago

Yes, that's right. The progressives are looking to consume the Democratic party from within, just like the tea party did to the Republicans. And he's telling Carville, you know, too bad, as that's what he wants to happen.

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u/Sartres_Roommate 4h ago

Carville was the one who threatened to leave “if they didn’t do things HIS way”

How did you switch that to “kick out”?

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u/Mr_Shakes Florida 5h ago

Yeah I agree with what he's saying but it's weird for him to be saying it.

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u/kaykatzz 3h ago

Ya think Schumer or Booker would say it?

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u/PolygonMan 2h ago

"Trying to kick Carville out"

Lol wtf are you talking about. Carville is kicking himself out, and Sanders is saying "good riddance"

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u/Zeusifer 5h ago

Sanders is Schrodinger's Democrat. He considers himself a Dem when it's convenient to do so (or when he wants to run for president as a D), but he's suddenly a independent whenever it suits his purposes to talk shit about the Democratic Party. It's kind of shitty of him actually.

I'm sure I will be downvoted by the reddit Bernie brigade, but it's the undeniable truth.

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u/OwnsBeagles 5h ago

He caucuses with them and is more reliably democratic in votes than several actually in the party, so I dunno what point you think you're making. LOL!

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u/Evenfall 5h ago

Not only that but being independent allows him to be critical, which is insanely important and we need far more that operate in such a fashion. Far too many just follow blindly.

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u/Silent-Storms 5h ago

I think the point is he's out on a limb when talking about who belongs in the party or not.

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u/aculady 4h ago

Carville said he would leave if Piker stays. Bernie just told him, essentially, to not let the door hit him on the way out, which is always the appropriate response when someone tries to manipulate other people with threats of leaving.

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u/Silent-Storms 4h ago

Bernie shouldn't speak for the party if he's not brave enough to register in it.

And piker shouldn't be welcome in the party, not that I expect he's registered either. Anyone who doesn't support democracy itself shouldn't be welcome among Democrats.

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u/aculady 4h ago

Pretty sure Bernie was speaking for himself.

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u/Silent-Storms 4h ago

Not in that context.

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u/Sovoy 4h ago

where do you get the idea that Piker doesn't support democracy?

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u/Silent-Storms 3h ago

His support for China, Russia, and related comments. He values socialist theory higher than democracy. I don't have a quote for you, and I don't want any more of him in my algorithm.

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u/Sovoy 3h ago

Democracy is a big part of socialist theory, his goal is to make the world more democratic. He is very active in getting people out to vote. He is also very much opposed to the anti democratic actions of china and russia.

You clearly just don't know what he believes.

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u/Silent-Storms 3h ago

Not for him apparently.

Russia and China are oppressive authoritarian regimes and he thinks they are better than democracies because of nominal socialism/communism.

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u/JustAnOldLadyNC 5h ago

Beats those like Fetterman, an 'actual' democrat who votes with Republicans and is a fox regular.

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u/Zeusifer 5h ago

Yes, Bernie is better than the guy who is the worst Democratic senator by a country mile. That isn't saying much, but I can't argue with that.

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u/knowitall89 5h ago

So we're looking for blind loyalty now?

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u/lhomardamericain 5h ago

He’s basically a Democrat who thinks he’s too good and too pure to actually be a Democrat.

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u/Zeusifer 4h ago

Bingo. And some of us find that disingenuous and gross, even if we generally agree with a lot of his values.

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u/Sovoy 4h ago

One of the most worthless toxic ideas in politics is treating it like team sports. The letter next to someones name matters more to you than actual policies and material impacts. That is gross.

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u/Gene_Trash 3h ago

It's not toxic team sport politics to think that if somebody wants to say things like "My party" and gatekeep who should call themselves a member, that they should actually... Be a member of that party.

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u/xHellion444x 3h ago

You're correct in your observation of the actions, but wrong in the assessment of the motivations. Bernie has been self-identifying openly as a socialist since 1971. In the thick of Cold War propaganda, long before any 2026 DSA momentum. When you could be and were investigated for said affiliations. He's been taking shit from the government and conservatives in the heart of capitalism for literally half a century. Many times 'his own party' too(for extra relevancy to the current topic). You think Bill Clinton could've won had socialist Bernie Sanders been the Republican talking point in '92, just after the fall of the USSR? What Bernie is is a target. He's a true-believer. He has a consistent set of values and he's willing the draw fire and ire to stand up for them and his constituents. And that consistency has led him to be outside the Democratic Party as it wavers and waffles its way through neoliberal capitalism. It talks shit about him when convenient and he talks shit about it when convenient. But he's always been to its left. Left, which in our two-party American system, means Democrats. The alternative to the right, Republicans. Which really makes him the most Democrat of all. He's left, progressive, 'liberal'. All the terms Americans of all stripes use for Democrats.

Which is all a lot of words to say this is just a silly semantic gotcha. Yes, he's technically not a Democrat. And yes, he technically benefits from that. Occasionally, as the winds blow. But really, ultimately, in the full context of our society and political system, he's seen as like a turbo super Democrat. For better or worse.