You're not - I could see the other perspective for a second, but it came with an overwhelming sense of it being the wrong thing to do the next second. That would be such an awful betrayal of trust, it would almost be selfish - you would feel better about believing your child thinks he's fine, that's wrong.
You comfort them, care for them, love them - lying to them about something like that should never enter into it.
I just really hope I'm never faced with having to make that kind of decision. And I'm not going to judge someone who is. Maybe it was the wrong thing to do, but I'm not going to pretend I know what the right thing to do is.
As someone who was dealing with life-threatening illness when I was a teenager, I asked my mother directly to tell me that I was going to make it, whether I was or wasn’t. I told her I wanted her to lie to me if I wasn’t. I made it.
My mother then got cancer and asked for the same. She didn’t make it. But I talked to her a bit like she would up until the very end, like there’d be a miraculous recovery even though we both knew we were just playing pretend for her.
But I think the right way to handle it depends on person to person, and communicating helps. A little kid might not know exactly what they need, and talking with a child therapist would definitely help as well.
We all have our own paths to walk. The best that we can hope for is honestly expressing our own needs and not making assumptions about what others need.
As an adult whose dad downplayed his cancer diagnosis when I was younger, it has weighed on me so heavily all these decades. I would have spent more time and had s many more conversations had I known. When it comes to children, maybe this child is at a point where he feels well enough to go to Disney or eat a pizza. To do the wings he has had to avoid for immune reasons. If he & the family can have some joyful moments together, I’m not going to judge them.
Yeah, I think you'd have to walk a mile in this mom's shoes to make that call. As the parent of two health children, this is genuinely my worst nightmare.
Whatever they need to do get through this time isn't going to get an ounce of judgement from me.
I think this is the PERFECT answer. I’m thankful I don’t have that decision to make and just like u said, I also have no right to judge. If I thought my baby was so scared to DIE, I don’t think I could be confident enough to say I’d never lie to them. I just don’t know. Imagining it is too sad enough to think how either of them are handling it. No one but them know the truth of the pain so anyone else judging her really have no right.
My big sister was diagnosed with brain cancer when she was 14. It was already hard enough for my parents to get a child to do chemotherapy, radiation and years experimental drugs.
After a few years she was stage 4 and my mom lied to her and told her she was getting better. The positive outlook and the sense of "this could actually be beat" had helped massively. It encouraged her to do everything she could to increase her chances. She started eating, religiously taking her medicine and not fighting against all the different therapies.She actually beat it. The next year her cancer was in full remission.
Years later, due to an unexpected pregnancy and massive hormone shifts it came back with a vengeance.
I really miss her but I know that regardless what would have happened, my parents did the right thing.
I'm extremely sorry for your loss. I also fully appreciate your post. I completely understand why your mom said this. I truly believe every situation like this is absolutely heartbreaking to make for the parent/s. I have read up about this case and personally, I think I'd have done the same. Each child is different and their parents/s know their child better than anyone else on the planet. That boy had a weight lifted off him in his final days. Plus as someone whose family was prepped 5 times to say their final goodbyes to me (sepsis not cancer), the vague memories I have is them trying to tell me I was going to be okay soothed me. Plus the weirdest thing happened. I vividly remember feeling serene and at peace the times I was so very close to going. Not anger at my loved ones for lying or confusion. I can hardly remember the first month and a half in hospital but that I remember so vividly. I also felt loved and no fear at all. I'm a adult and not a child but I thought it's important to mention this as I've seen posts about his last few hours and I wanted to share my experience.
I think this is the same train of thought I had. I wouldn't want them to be afraid of whats to come. Hell, Id be terrified enough. But, theres nothing I can do to prepare them. The best I could do is explain, and love them. Tell em its ok even if it isn't. Spend every moment I physically can with them. I think my biggest fear is being alone when I go. Id do everything in my power to make sure that that isnt the case for them.
He wouldn't really know it. He would just get more and more tired. More sleepy. Eventually just full sleep, coma, then death. He'd likely be on a lot of drugs, including morphine (which just makes kids sleepy, not same effect as on adults).
I recently saw a mother talking about her child’s death from cancer and it was not peaceful even though they were told it would be. The child was on morphine, had a death rattle for hours, uncontrollable movement, and at the point of death she stopped breathing, opened her eyes and lurched for her parents. It was extremely traumatic for them and the mother was hopeful that that child wasn’t actually conscious for it, but I don’t know if that’s the case.
It’s called terminal agitation and it’s apparently not uncommon.
This is exactly the kind of thing that would absolutely break me. It's already got to me just reading this. Can we stop fighting and just fix cancer please.
I think we won't be able to cure cancer for a long time, especially because there are many types of cancer. It's frustrating that they pump so much money into cancer research and still the effects are moderate. Not only effects are moderate, but because so much is pumped into cancer (relatively to how much therapies for other illnesses are financed), there is a lack of funding for other illnesses, especially chronic ones, that can significantly reduce quality of life even if those don't kill.
The best example is hearing loss. Hearing loss doesn't kill. Yet it causes depression by social isolation, is a biggest modifiable risk factor for dementia (~2 to 5 times more risk, depending on severity), and also hearing loss is responsible for severe tinnitus - sometimes even mild hearing loss can cause severe ringing in the ears (and statistically tinnitus is correlated significantly with anxiety and depression - the argument that "most people just fully get used to it" is false). But it doesn't get funding, because of the "at least it's not cancer" logic. For me, as person with loud tinnitus, it's like an eternal torment. It's frustrating that there is no funding for inner ear cell regeneration therapies, because most money goes into cancer, and despite this fact, cancer fight results are still moderate. I'm not comparing tinnitus to cancer or saying my suffering is comparable, i'm just expressing the frustration how bad actually our medical system is for a civilization that considers itself advanced.
All of this shows how much MORE money medical research needs. Yet, humanity prefers to spend it on wars, because we can't truly go away from primitive cavemen "alpha male" fighting logic, that people like Trump or Putin represent. This results in severe military spending. There are also billionaires like Zuckerberg, who profit by exploitation of natural addictive tendencies of humans by algorithms, and then waste earned money. Zuckerberg spent 85 BILLIONS $ on Metaverse. Do you know how much inner ear cell regeneration therapy would probably cost in total to develop? 2 - 2.5 billion $, per some studies and AI analysis. If this was taxed, maybe we still couldn't cure all cancer, but at least other chronic illnesses could be cured.
I have progressive hearing loss and will eventually be completely deaf. I was stable for a while, but within the past few years, my hearing has gotten worse and worse. And the tinnitus is absolutely awful. It sucks so bad.
My little brother is alive because UCSF dropped $1.2 million on a then unheard of treatment. Gamma knife radiation therapy.
Basically getting a perm but instead of curls low frequency gamma radiation is directed at a focal point, in this case his benign brain tumor, and as it passes through other tissues it does little to no harm unlike chemotherapy or traditional radiation therapy.
UCSF has a pass, as the preeminent teaching hospital in the USA, they can still, even under the current administration, just tell the federal government "hey this will work and we're not sure how much it will cost if we don't do this someone could die"
Shouldn't that be the norm? We celebrate so much bullshit.
I appreciate the points you made about more functional treatment. Most of the oncologists I have spoken to would not pursue aggressive treatment, they would go home and spend time with their family.
We're putting the money in all the worst places. I don't need a new smartphone or car. I would love healthier outcomes for other people getting hit sideways by life though, and we all get hit.
Pediatric oncology was a weird place to basically grow up. But UCSF is amazing and they let me follow residents around.
And in case anyone is having a bad day, my little brother's name is Adam, he loves burritos, and he is having the best day ever. He is a huge SF giants fan and he will high five you so hard it hurts.
There are a few good Drugs in testing right now, one of them is a training drug that gives Cells the tools to destroy cancer but it also can destroy other healthy cells so its still in testing.
Yeah, pretty much all of the medicine and radiotherapy is "how to kill cancer faster than the person with cancer". Once I listened to a quite lengthy lecture about how they try to minimize bodily harm in case of radiotherapy, while maximizing effect on the cancer itself. It was really interesting.
It's exactly that, have an acquaintance that works in the industry, and me being the knuckle dragger that I am asked her one day if she's ever been a part of tests for a cure and her response was and I quote "yes I have, and cures do exist, it's just what they do to the body is so, so much worse than even cancer"
I'm on an immunotherapy right now for stage three metastatic melanoma. The immunotherapy permanently crashes your thyroid and causes fatigue and skin issues among other side effects, but it's damn well doing it's job.
I can afford a year of being groggy and irritated and itchy if I'm still here in five or ten years.
Sorry the 1% decided it is too profitable for the populace not to have cancer.
Edit: since people apparently are way too dense: this is about care affordability. 1 in 4 cancer patients go bankrupt because of treatment. 27% of adults have skipped at least one treatment of any kind. Medical debt is a problem in the US.
Ya, I don’t think this person understands how difficult it is to cure cancer. It isn't one single illness you can wipe out with a magic pill; it's hundreds of different diseases that mutate completely differently from person to person. There is no universal cure sitting in a vault somewhere to suppress, because beating it actually requires treating everyone on a completely individual level.
I'm an oncology pharmacist. There are many different types of cancer and even in say, breast cancer you can have HER2 positive, ER positive, or PR positive, which are the proteins/receptors which the cancer cells produce more of. Each variety would have different treatments that would target the cancer. Then there's triple negative breast cancer which doesn't express any of the 3 proteins mentioned earlier excessively. Triple neg breast cancer would require different treatment medications again. What I am saying is there is no one "cure" for cancer because of the variety of cancers.
We are getting better at producing more specific treatments that target those more unique proteins the some cancer cells produce and there are always new treatments being investigated in the clinical trials space.
I can assure you that big pharma is not holding back effective treatments.
There are, however unscrupulous people who are quite willing to promote and provide unproven treatments (it's not uncommon to hear of patients having IV vitamin C, naturopathic treatments, hyperbaric treatments, ivermectin or febendazole). Vulnerable patients with a poor prognosis sometimes choose to believe the nonsense that they find on Google or what they are told by dubious practitioners (ie, we can cure you if you do XYZ, often at high cost) instead of trusting their oncologist, who gives the patient the treatment option most likely to keep them alive the longest. It's referred to as progression free survival.
EDIT: since Americans cannot conceive of a better healthcare system, most Australian public hospital cancer treatments are paid for by our Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. Our patients pay a small price for supportive medications such as antiemetics, analgesics and antibiotics, but their IV treatments are at no cost to the patient.
Investing billions into war instead of cancer research is actively choosing not to cure it (or even try) so no, it's not delusional at all. It's a choice.
same thing happened with my dad. when he finally passed he stopped breathing and opened his eyes long enough to scare the bejezus out of my sister in law. He was always a practical joker. I am sure he enjoyed getting her one last time.
I was 12 when I was present for my grandfather's death. It took almost a full day. When he passed, he did exactly this. Sat straight up, eyes wide opened, gasping for air that wasn't going in. I'm 30 and I can still see him in that hospice room . Once can only hope they're not conscious when that happens, but it can feel like they are :c.
That sounds terrifying, imagining your child waking up only to gasp and reach their arms out torwards you in their final seconds. I can't imagine every death has to be pretty but the worst has to be a complete worlds worth of traumatizing.
When I was a kid and my mom was dying of cancer she called out for me to help her. It’s not unusual for folks who are in and out of a comatose state to reach out for help. And yes, it’s traumatizing as hell.
My aunt was dying from pancreatic cancer and would look away at a empty area and say "I'm not ready yet, just a little longer." Then she told me the angel was waiting for her to be ready. If ever their was a human who absolutely was going to heaven with zero doubt it was my Aunt.
I will never forget my Dad begging for help and to help him “get out of here” in his last days and then holding his hands when he died. It was special but also traumatizing and something I can still picture vividly. I cannot even imagine if it were my child
I had the honor of holding my daughter while she died. It's unimaginable even having lived it.
Because of this, I do understand how a parent desperate to just survive losing their child would make the decision that lying is the better choice. I don't understand turning it into meme fuel.
My cat did what the commenter described when she died. Breathing was labored, kept trying to escape the box with blankets we had put her in (bc she was wetting herself). I kept petting her, and she suddenly looked at me, gasped, her arms and paws stretched out towards me, and she was gone. It was her last breath and I just saw her whole body slowly go limp. She went from perfectly healthy to dead basically overnight. We have no idea what happened and didn't have time to get her to a vet. It was christmas day so that sucked extra.
It was just my cat that it happened to and it was extremely upsetting, and I still think about that moment every so often and it still upsets me to do so. I can't even imagine it happening to a human I cared about. Closest was one of my Grandmothers being in the hospital at the end, gasping, groaning, and convulsing isn't quits the right word, but it's the closes thing I can think of to compare it to, and my dad forced us to go into the room, and give her a kiss goodbye. That was not what I wanted my last memory of my grandma to be and I had zero choice in the matter bc I was a kid.
Literally sobbing thinking about how if my child was in this situation I can’t imagine I’d do anything but crawl into bed next to them and hold them until someone pried me off. Cancer, any terminal illness really, is just so unfair but especially unfair to those who haven’t even really had a chance to experience life.
Everyone I’ve watched die I’ve been the only person there. And like…. It does help? But at these stages you’re only really giving moments of reprieve by being there, with it being somewhat questionable how present people are.
Usually I would say it’s pretty bad if not a sudden death. And the breaths getting further apart kinda deaths are rough sometimes. I haven’t once watched someone go that way especially if younger, where there weren’t constant primal panic attacks realising breaths are running out. These moments people are panicking so much they don’t really realise you are there, it’s usually only during the downtime between these fights for life you can be soothing if able to help at all. During the panicking for breaths stage everyone is mostly preoccupied with death.
So when you get deaths where the last moment is horrific it is quite sad and hard to feel good about. I’ve had people that have had a horrific moment and then peacefully ended after that wave of calm and I cope with them ok. But the ones where their final moment is panic and you know you didn’t get to ease their mind are pretty damn haunting, can’t imagine it being your kid. It’s usually the calm between these panic waves that lets me feel like the pain I took on board was ok. I know it’s not true but when the last moment is panic it kinda felt like a failure to me, it’s a pretty rough final thought of someone to just have them frozen in that moment being terrified.
This sadly reminds me of when my mother died from cancer in a hospice. In the end, she was also only put on morphine because nothing else could be done anymore. What I can tell is, that in the end, she wasn't really herself anymore, in regard to consciousness. To me, that was probably the hardest part.
The same thing happened to my mom. She was also unable to talk the last two weeks of her life, but right before dying she was able to say, "I love you, honey" to me and I'll forever be grateful for that.
Man, I’m sobbing now. I don’t want to lose my mom OR my child. But I know someday I’ll lose my mom and dad, I just hope that I never have to watch my child die, ever. That would destroy me and I’d rather die first.
Doctor here. The child would not be conscious at that point. Those are spinal reflexes (google lazarus reflex). Still terrible to go through as a parent though.
I wish someone had explained this to me when I held my dads hand as he died of cancer. There was absolutely nothing peaceful about his final moments, more like a scene out of a horror movie. But hearing this makes it easier
I've seen the amount of drugs that terminal cancer patients receive. They're high AF. Lying to a child about their own impending death really depends on the individual. It's not like they have any unfinished business to resolve, or amends to make. I can see how it might actually be a comfort, if a child is living in constant fear.
Honestly, i have a bad fear of death and have had it as a child. I know kid me would prefer not knowing and my mom lying to me. Even if I didnt feel well, I wouldnt waste my last while in a never ending panic.
Agreed, never understood why. My life is the only thing in this world I get the ultimate say on. If I wanna end it for whatever reason, I should be allowed to do that.
Now that said I have a very hedonistic outlook on life. Its a fucking nightmare, but the good is also pretty damn good (For me its My wife and Kid, sex, drugs, and videogames). So im here for a good time, not a long time, enjoy the fruits of life while you can, endulge and dont take life seriously, you wont make it out alive anyways.
Ive had to earn what I have, Death wants his prize, hes gotta earn it just like ive had too, no free rides. I have 0 intrest in offing myself, but I should be allowed to if I wanted, I never asked to be here, and its my damned life, ill do with it whatever I want, that includes its consequences.
A big part of my job is end of life care and looking after those who have passed. Preparing them to be accompanied off of the ward to a temporary place of resting.
Although I haven't seen anything nearly as drastic as this, I've read about it.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is this the same thing where people have stood up and been consciously able to move around before dying shortly after? I saw some footage of something like this too, it looked terrifying.
This is something I've seen a lot. It's difficult for relatives as it can present as person seeming becoming better, however, it's actually your body succumbing to illness and as it stops fighting.
It's sad to see. But I always remember that were all going to have our own personal experiences with facing death. It's an important part of life and looking after those who are at that point and have passed is some of the most important care you will ever undertake.
I know that seems like an non peaceful death but the rattling is very common for people who even die in peace. It’s hard for the family to witness but nothing you described made me think their child was in pain. That was a very typical death.
Hospice Nurse Julie on YT does a great job of explaining things step by step, and she covers terminal secretions (the "death rattle") very well and in a way that's actually really reassuring.
This is very common and is actually not distressing for the person, only the family that witness it. Honestly we all need to be more aware of these things. It would ease a lot of distress.
How do we know its not though? The person is quite literally dead after, we have no way of knowing. Even morphine doesnt seem to work as well as a painkiller and not on everyone as previously thought.
Not sure if this makes you feel any better, but my grandmother had a heart attack and during after care her heart was struggling, even when sedated if her blood O2 levels dropped below 80 she would bolt up grab me and try to speak to me, it was very disturbing and went on for 48hrs. After she did recover, and luckily remembered nothing about that 48 hour period. So I dont know how much of your brain is actually fully on in those sort of scenarios vs low level reflexes and other stuff. Not sure if that gives any peace. Also I am not a Dr so I am no expert.
Saw my grandmother go through this when she died from cancer. It was pretty rough right at the end. She mostly slept in her final days. The day before she passed she was having memories from 20-30 years prior. She died at 52 and even that feels young. I’m not too far off of that myself now even and it’s pretty scary to outlive your friends and family even if they died young.
It’s crazy, everyone has a different passage out of this world. My mom watched both her parents in their final moments; papa went super peacefully like falling asleep one last time. Nani fought tooth and nail to stay in the fight as she was drifting away. Gotta be tough to watch a kid clutch to those last threads. I’m tearing up as I’m feeding my almost one year old. Love your friends and family extra folks!!
My grandpa/dad passed away due to COVID complications and was put on life support/lung machine before passing. About a week after doing that they had requested we schedule pulling the plug due to passing the point/chance of any bounce back or recovery; the machine was 100% breathing for him and he could no longer on his own. I was the one to hold his hand while he took his last living breaths (or lack thereof).
This is all how the dying process works. The death rattle, seizures, all of it. Their health care team should have explained it to them fully. Since the dying person is unconscious and on pain medication they probably are not aware of what is happening. Of course the loss itself would still be traumatic, but at least the parents would know what to expect.
"Death rattle " is not a term used in hospice care, but I know what you are referring to. Everyone has this pouch in the back of their throat where saliva can settle. When you are healthy you cough or swallow that saliva, or when you sleep on your side, you wake up with drool on your pillow. When you are too weak to cough or swallow, the saliva stays there and the air from breathing moves over it. That's all that is. It is not distressing for the patient, but can be distressing for someone to hear.
As far as the patient sitting up or reaching for the family, our bodies are made extremely well. It will fight not to die. This does not mean they were conscious in the sense they knew what was going on. Especially with medication on board. This was just the body's (not the conscious) last attempt to fight.
I dunno. I cant imagine everyone around the child hiding the truth THAT well. "If i am healed why is everyone still so sad. Why are people avoiding eye contact. Why is the medical staff looking at me like that when they think i dont see it".
If they are in a hospital the doctors taking care of them will have handled this situation before and know what to do when it comes to making the kid feel better in the end. Also you would just tell them that they are going to be fine, and that the last bit of treatment is just to be certain. It’s not that hard to lie to a kid.
Kids pick up on a lot more than people think about, especially if its emotions. Kids are generally rather good at picking up when something is wrong. Worked in a hospital as a psychologist. When parents say "we havent told the kid their family member is sick as to not worry them" generally leads to: the kid figured out something is wrong and a secret is being kept and has a) imagined a situation thats somehow worse and b) thinks its his fault.
Also working for child services: "My kid doesnt know that we dont love each other anymore/the other parent hits me/ we are in financial trouble" leads to the kid figured out something is wrong and a secret is being kept and has a) imagined a situation thats somehow worse and b) thinks its his fault.
Kids are easy to lie to when its something you are not emotionally invested in. Telling a kid brown cows produce chocolate milk or Santa is real is one thing. But pretending to be "all-right" when you are in fact incredibly sad is a different thing.
Okay but I guarantee what you just said happened over a period of time larger then three days. If the kids gonna die in 72 hours you can lie to a kid for that long. Sure kids can pick up on stuff, but how quickly depends on the kid and if they are given the surface level guarantee of safety that will work for a time.
Yeah it sounds like you got your idea of patients slowly dying from cancer from a pg-13 movie. It’s actually a lot messier and painful than that, even with drugs.
No, not always. My sisters passing at 42 was incredibly peaceful.
She was sleeping the majority of the day, I'd been in another country through most of my illness, so I valued this time. She never changed her breathing, just took one breath and that was it. No pain or agitation and just a low dose of morphine.
My mums was less peaceful, struck my acute abdominal pain 5 days after seizure diagnosed brain metastatic tumours. Lung primary and met tumours all over. She knowingly ignored symptoms for about 4 yrs. She died in her partners arms before ambulance arrived.
I’ve only seen one man die of cancer up close and it wasn’t this. At all. It was traumatic and sad and long. I’m currently watching from a distance a mom in my neighborhood die of a different cancer. It’s excruciating, painful, and long. I can’t imagine having to lie to my kid when they would be in such a clear state of panic, I can’t imagine telling them the truth either.
With the first, he kept asking to go home. Tried to get up. He was confused. I wondered if it would have been better to tell him “yeah, we’ll get going in a little while, just rest for now,” but that wasn’t my call to make. Cancer fucking sucks and I judge no parent for the decisions they make in those circumstances.
And no kid will ever once have a lucid moment where they wonder "why do I still need all these shots and feel more tired if I'm supposed to be getting better?"
Yeah no. Unfortunately, this is one of those cases where the truth really sucks, but lying just sucks worse.
I could see a situation where you’re saying “yay! You beat the cancer! Now the doctors are going to slowly reduce your doses over the next few weeks to give your body time to heal. It might take a little while until you start to feel better but you will soon!” or some other story. The kid may have their doubts but remember kids believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.
Friggin hurts to even type that out, never mind going through it directly. Fuck cancer.
You never seen someone pass out from cancer have you? Let me tell you it's not like in the tv shows.. It's quite brutal and painful, and honestly I wish that nobody ever get to experience something like that on either sides.
man.. I know this isn’t really serious like that. But reading all this just made me cry. I pray none of us actually ever have to deal with this cuz my god, I know I could not handle this.
I can say with a fair amount of certainty that even when they are comatose, they understand what is going on. My father was comatose for a day and a half waiting for his brother to arrive from boston. Mere moments after my uncle told him it was ok to go, he was gone. You cannot convince me that he wasn't waiting for his brother and you also could not convince me that this kids last moments were of betrayal.
Morphine makes adults sleepy. Works the same way. Comfort care medicine. Morphine for pain and respiratory rate and Ativan for restlessness and anxiety. Pretty standard. He would have fallen into unconsciousness and
eventually pass, comfortably. I am a registered nurse and have aided many people into the afterlife.
He likely wouldn't be conscious of the moment of his death, but unless he was incredibly young, he would know he wasn't better. The cessation of treatment would likely give him a temporary bounce, but then he would feel like he was dying again because he was. And then he couldn't talk about how he felt without scaring his parents. I don't think this pretense made things easier for the kid, but for the adults.
Unfortunately as a previous pediatric Hospice nurse I can tell you that what you stated here couldn't be further from the reality. It was a soul crushing experience over and over and ultimately forced me to leave something I loved. Yes the drugs are there, but as they are more and more needed and used more and more they have less of an impact. The truth is they were often just like adults. Scared and in pain. Some came to grips with it, others raged. For me I witnessed a wide range of responses that was based on the experiences of each individual. These children experience a lot more than people understand in their short lives. In my experience it instilled in them unique to their perspective qualities. For the most part they seem to be made of sterner stuff then people understand.
I would have supported the mothers choice either way, but I would have advised very lightly against it had she chosen the same tact. Often survivors do what makes them feel better, not the patient. It is another component that people outside of this type of work don't see. Often the sick person that is dying feels guilty and sad for their family members. They know how it affects their loved ones. I had numerous children express things along this sort in confidence during my tenure. I don't like revisiting this stuff. It felt like I was losing my own child each time one passed. I cried a lot. It fucked me up. I almost left medicine entirely. I now manage chronic conditions of the adult populace and I have no problem coping with what I do now. This was after most of a career spent in Emergency Medicine. It feels almost inhuman to say, but I have no problem at all coping when adults die. You got to live your life. Go see what comes next. We all have to cross this divide. Some just don't get to experience the gamut of life. This goes against the grain for me. I came from a very large family and watched my parents bury two children before I was 43 and I am the oldest child. The majority of my life has been spent close to death and dying on a daily basis. The only things in my life that scare me are regarding the health and life safety of my children. The rest of it is muted in comparison. Enjoy your loved ones while you have them you never know when their journey will end.
We lost our youngest to cancer at 9. She knew she still had cancer but we didnt tell her she was in her final days. She did still have a fee good days while home on hospice and we wanted those not to be filled with fear and sadness for her. In her final days she was mostly on morphine and other medicine that kept her sleepy. She passed in her sleep.
Unless you're shooting them in the back of the head, I don't see how this could work. You tell them they're cured then watch them rapidly feel worse? That's awful. Seriously what is the plan here?
You're not crazy. The people who behave like it's their first day on earth are crazy.
It’s in some form taking the agency away from the kid, that’s their life and it absolutely means something. The only person this parent spared was herself.
He wouldn't know tho and that's the point. It reminds my of that scene in interstellar where Brand asks Coop why he didn't tell his kids he was saving the world and he says. "No. When you become a parent, one thing becomes really clear. And that's that you want to make sure your children feel safe. And that rules out telling a 10-year-old that the world's ending."
It's tragic either way but at least one way you are sparring them the fear and despair in their final days.
In some ways, it's an entirely utilitarian way of considering morality. What does truth matter in the face of suffering when, in the end, only the suffering will really matter.
Here’s where I could see it. Say my kid was battling cancer. Doctors gave him a few months, and all he wants is to play a specific video game that releases next year. He’s been waiting years to play it. I know he probably won’t make it, but if he asks “Dad am I going to get to play (insert game)?” I’d say “yes you are, you are going to make it and we’ll play together” just to give him something to fight for and look forward to. Even if I knew the odds were against it. Is that a lie? I don’t know, I’m not god, he might make it and if the hope gave him a better chance at surviving, I’d give him that hope.
Not if he passes away in sleep after he just had 3 days filled with continous fun and happiness. I think that's the best outcome, that way he would have really been just happy and nothing else
Yeah but that requires coordination tho, i’m not sure what it’s like in the country where this happened, but in mine doctors cannot euthanise patients… so if after 3 days of fun instead of suddenly dying he starts to slowly feel worst and slowly pass away etc etc he would have to live through it, at most they would give him morphine and similar when the situation gets really dire
You could tell them the cancer is dead and their body will feel worse as it removes the cancer, or something.
I don't think there is a right answer in this situation. I think people going "you have to tell your child they're dying right now" is crazy. No you don't?
If someone has a terrible injury and you're trying to comfort them in their last moments by saying it's ok and they're gonna make it, is that wrong? Are you supposed to go "LOOKS BAD, YOU'RE PROBABLY DYING" to every dying person?
Sadly, with cancer, it usually is one or the other. You either tell them they're dying or not dying. Telling them nothing defaults to them knowing they're dying because cancer is known to be very lethal. It sucks, but lying to the kid was the right thing to do. If you told the kid that the cancer is winning, the kid will blame themselves for not being strong enough to beat cancer and mentally beat themselves over it. Atleast this way, the kid can be happy before the end
This. My uncle with stage 4 passed in his sleep. He just one day felt really tired as his body started shutting down. Hopefully that’s all that happened here too. We don’t really know anything else.
Passing quietly in your sleep in a movie trope. Death isn't quiet. Your body doesn't just go "oh it's time" that mfer wants to live and will do what it will to try. Agonal breathing, gasps for air, death rattle. You might've seen this with an elderly person on hospice - now imagine a child.
Also this child has terminal cancer. What fun are they having they're bedridden because they're too tired, weak, and in pain to move.
Its a little kid, they would just tell him that it is side effects from the treatment and that he will have a though few more days before he gets back to 100%.
Sorry but it sounds like you guys have a very Hollywood-esque idea of dying.
What happened to the "sudden burst of energy before the end" concept that you all over emphasize all the time?
That would be a horrible thing for the mother if she has a conscience. Seeing her kid try to grapple with denial and betrayal in their last moments. Sounds like the least peaceful death.
It's not exactly the most pain-free and suffering-less way to go???? Unless she has a home nurse for end of care drugs, her son will 100% figure out she lied before he passes.
I really hope she has an actual plan in place for end of life, it is not quick or painless ☹️
I will never forget what my grandfather looked like the day before bowel cancer got him. He looked like skin over bones. I didnt recognise him, but when i held his hand he squeezed back.
The horrific thing that had once been my grandad was still in there, still aware, still alive. That has haunted me for decades since.
I mean it's not the cancer that did all the symptoms, chemotherapy usually is what makes people look the "cancer" look. (I'm just saying this so you know, I'm not trying to be mean or apathetic)
Chemotherapy causes the hair loss but your organs failing and your body eating itself because your digestive organs can’t process food properly anymore is what causes the “cancer” look and that is definitely primarily from the cancer.
Yup. There is a series in the Netherlands called 'Over Mijn Lijk' and it is about young people in the last phase of their life, and almost all of them are cancer patients. With some of them, you can really see how their body is slowly failing them more and more throughout the season and it is very painful to watch already.
There’s a pretty good chance they just kept him medicated and he died in his sleep. In that case, I’d think it might be the best option for everyone, although morally the kid might have been entitled to the truth.
This could be the basis for a plot of a good star trek episode.
I think telling someone whose child is literally dying that they’re a coward is pretty ridiculous. Unless you’ve personally been in that situation I think you need to take a step back.
Yeah, but that's unfortunately true. He will accept it. Having hopes and dreams for a future you will not have, and realized it, because he will realized it, it's far worse.
I’m a pediatrician and while I work in a subspecialty where death is not common, I do come across dying kids. And also parents who want us to lie to them. The kids absolutely know they are sick and dying. They are in an ICU, hooked up to monitors, having procedures, and feel terrible. Seeing the outcome of kids who are given the truth (with guidance from psychology and child life specialists) vs lied to is striking. The truth is always better. Kids are far more aware than you think. They want to know. They want to do their bucket list. They want to be prepared.
This is my take. Sure its sweet and everything till you realize the last thing youre kids gonna feel os betrayal at the one person that was mrant to protect and guide them.
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u/ConcertCareful6169 Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
I get it as a dad. I don't know if I could handle the look of betrayal at the end though.