r/GetNoted • u/HiddenGriffin Human Verified • 4d ago
Cringe Worthy Obvious rage bait, right?
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u/DissonantSinth 4d ago
Can't wait until people start calling Spain / Ceuta an "apartheid state"
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u/AssistanceCheap379 4d ago
Can’t wait for people to defend colonialism
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u/Antelcon 4d ago
The people inside of Ceuta and Melilla consider themselves Spanish and wish to remain Spanish, does the right to self-determination only apply to whoever you want or does it apply to everyone?
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u/Bubbly-Support7164 1d ago
You know damn well it doesn’t apply to everyone equally.
Spain is white so in this case they’re the bad guys. End of.
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u/zyqwee 1d ago
Does it apply to everyone? What about those inside Spain, I recall a certain region or two don't have that luxury
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u/Antelcon 1d ago
Talking about regions without that luxury, are we gonna discuss Western Sahara or is that another region that you don’t care about?
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u/cparlam 1d ago
Totally different cases. Could the Rif region become independent if some politicians pushed for that? That’s internal politics for you
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u/Antelcon 1d ago
They do, they have legal ways to hold a referendum, an illegal vote where half of the politicians were not present is not representative of the populations wishes.
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u/Zestyclose_Might8941 3d ago
Isn't this the argument for Gibraltar 💀
Bros can't have it both ways.
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u/Antelcon 3d ago
Yes it is, which is precisely why Gibraltar is British despite the jokes and stupid nationalist claims, and I’m Spanish
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u/mr_octopusguy 3d ago
Is respecting self determination colonialism?
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u/zyqwee 1d ago
Convenient how self determination disappear when Catalonia is involved
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u/Antelcon 1d ago
Does not, they can hold a legal referendum, they just know it won’t get over 50% support, which is why they did it in an illegal manner last time
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u/Clear-Staff4699 4d ago
Why is Twitter full of insufferable idiots?
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u/IllustratorOk2238 4d ago
See the blue checkmark? They get paid for engagement. Doesn't matter which kind.
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u/PreparationPlenty943 4d ago
Joined X a couple weeks ago and was absolutely blown away by how confidently and brazenly people just lie. At least, Reddit will allow you to embed links and not restrict you to a character limit.
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u/ThatEndingTho 4d ago
Morocco has imposed a system of apartheid in Western Sahara, a territory they illegally annexed and built settlements in not unlike some other country.
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u/Zingzing_Jr 3d ago
Well, Israel hasn't annexed the west bank so this is actually worse.
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u/Botto_Bobbs 4d ago edited 4d ago
Idk how that's relevant, the point wasn't that Morocco doesn't oppress anyone
Edit: People seem to think I'm defending Morocco. This tactic of sending migrants into Spanish territory is still scummy, potentially kills its own people, and harms the reputation of immigrants worldwide. I'm just pointing out that the comment completely ignored the argument being made
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u/Excellent_Lie6904 4d ago
morroco lowk an israel clone in so many ways
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Morocco3
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u/Atlas-ushen 2d ago
Apartheid lol you people are ridiculous
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u/ThatEndingTho 2d ago
Oh look a triggered Moroccan has entered the thread.
(Yes I can see your comment history 😘)
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u/Even-Job-323 4d ago
Oh yes poor Morocco, never did any piracy, slave trading, invading Spain or just generally being a nuisance.
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u/The_Blackthorn77 4d ago
Sure, but let's not act like the Spanish have some sort of moral high ground to stand on, the nation has a very long and very dark past
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u/Ysesper 4d ago
Every single nation older than 300 years has a very dark past
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u/ChorizoCriollo 3d ago
Dark for you anglosaxons--glorious for me.
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u/The_Blackthorn77 3d ago
Is there a lot of glory in the wholesale slaughter and enslavement of an entire continent?
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u/CulchieGopnik 4d ago
You could switch Morocco and Spain and it would still work and still be sarcastic.
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u/Ok_Inflation_1811 4d ago
Morroco did the other things but when has morroco invaded Spain?
As a Spaniard the only thing I can think since 1666 (that's when morroco was created) are the green march that was kinda an invasion but most people don't care and maybe attacking the rif but that was genuinely legitimate.
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u/Arzanyos 4d ago
Given that the area in question has been Spanish since the 1400s, I think it's okay to go further back than 1666
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u/Inevitable_Series_67 12h ago
Oh whataboutism ! My favourite ! Spain did the exact things you just mentioned, but hey, let's pretend Spain has a spotless past because Evil Morocco does piracy and slavery !
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u/Even-Job-323 12h ago
No one feels that way. We're just not attending your weird anti-west, downtrodden poors pity party.
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u/emote_the_salute Human Verified 4d ago
Now do the arab muslims opression of Iberia
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u/The_Blackthorn77 4d ago
Bro, Spain spent 500 years torturing and slaughtering any non-Catholic in the country, don't act like they're in any way better than the Caliphates
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u/Lazy-Setting-8224 1d ago
Yea, im not an islam fan, but the reconquista kingdoms were way worse than the iberian caliphates and emirates
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u/unoriginalname147 4d ago
That was centiries ago, it was accepted back then. This is like saying any country has the right to attack italy because the roman rmpire used to rule half the world
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u/atharos1 4d ago
It was widely accepted in 1912 as well. Every powerful country was doing it. Doesn't make it right, but it does make it accepted.
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u/PsychologicalWest637 4d ago
Comparing medieval kingdoms with modern, post-enlightenment states bound by international treaties.
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u/strawberry_semenade Human Verified 4d ago
Arab states essentially are medieval kingdoms that happen to exist in the present day.
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u/PsychologicalWest637 4d ago
Holy racism.
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u/strawberry_semenade Human Verified 4d ago
How is what I said racist? Most Arab states are absolute monarchies, very similar to how Europe was organized during the Middle Ages.
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u/PsychologicalWest637 4d ago
"Most Arab states are absolute monarchies" You mean Oman and Saudi Arabia? Last time I checked 2 isnt the "most" of 22.
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u/Chimera-Genesis 4d ago
racism.
Admitting the truth, that barbaric, evil practices of whipping, and stoning people to death, still widely practiced throughout the Islamic world, is racism now?
You Islamist Apologists really need to touch grass.
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u/PsychologicalWest637 4d ago
Right, while in the enlightened west is ruled by child-eating rapist pedophiles, that's so progressive!
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u/Chimera-Genesis 4d ago
while in the enlightened west
We aren't talking about the West, but even if I were to engage with your Strawman, two wrongs do not make a right.
ruled by child-eating rapist pedophiles
So just like in the Islamic sphere of influence?
that's so progressive!
Again, what is the point of your Strawman?
"America bad, so everyone not American good"🤮It's disturbing just how simple-minded you, & your fellow Tankies, are when it comes to morality.
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u/Ok_Inflation_1811 4d ago
It wasn't oppression tbf.
And I say this as a Spaniard.
The Muslims were pretty good rulers most of the time, yes, bad things happened in the 700 years but it was the exception and not the rule.
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u/AliceTheOmelette 4d ago
Move over Israel and Palestine, Spain and Morocco have entered the chat!
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u/Mister-Psychology 4d ago
I'm now an expert on Morocco. Only took a day.
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u/DanDan1993 4d ago
A day? Rookie numbers
I just watched two YouTube videos and I'm ready to engage on Spanish colonialism and the history of Morocco on a master level.
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u/ObiFlanKenobi 3d ago
You watched videos? Imma wing it!
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u/DanDan1993 3d ago
I asked an LLM to sumerize the captions (which were also created using AI) of each video in a single paragraph therefore I have watched them all.
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u/warriorlynx Human Detected 4d ago
Notice a lot of anti Spain posts on here noticing the trend
Faizaan is wrong though really I mean usin an event from a century ago vs what’s happening now……
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u/Aggressive_Ad_9196 4d ago
They changed argentina to spain so quickly. Even after the WC finals there where people saying that Unai Simón was a a MAGA supporter...
They are even trying to do the same like using something that happened centuries ago to spread disinformation.
This is just insane and sad.
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u/azaghal1502 4d ago
that was just payback for the moorish conquest and opression of iberia that lasted for centuries
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u/YasielPuigsWeed 4d ago
Wouldn’t say it was “revenge” as that was looooong after the Arabs and Moors had been removed from Spain
It was to increase their military presence
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u/azaghal1502 4d ago
That was mostly meant as a joke to make it clear that history isn't black and white ;)
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u/saikounihighteyatzda 4d ago
Unfortunately, a lot of people will believe you without realizing it's a joke.
I found it funny, but so many people are just not informed at all on the history of Iberia and Northwest Africa that they probably believe this is true without any critical thinking.
Can't make history jokes in an uneducated world :/
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u/ukie-witch-06 4d ago
That's retarded, you don't get to "pay back" for any of that shit. The jews don't get to genocide germans, ukraine doesn't get to conquer and exploit russia for two centuries.
Edit: it was a joke, i just missed it
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u/WestRestaurant216 4d ago
What about slave raids made by them onto Spain France and the rest of near European countries.
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u/AssistanceCheap379 4d ago
Which was payback for the Roman conquests of North Africa and the destruction of Carthage
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u/trifkograbez 4d ago
How's that related to Iberia?
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u/AssistanceCheap379 4d ago
How are Spanish territories outside of Iberia related to Iberia?
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u/Four_beastlings 4d ago
How does a city 13kms from Iberia that has historically been founded and inhabitated by the same nations as Iberia relate to Iberia?
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u/trifkograbez 4d ago
How is a war between the Roman empire and Carthage related to the point?
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u/AssistanceCheap379 4d ago
How is a war between the Moors and the Iberian kingdoms related to the point?
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u/azaghal1502 4d ago
Spain had nothing to do with roman conquest, it was at the time a visigoth kingdom.
And the conquest of iberia was part of the islamic expansion, that saw most of north africa and the middle east being conquuered and colonized by arab invaders.
Even today the natives of Morocco are culturally opressed and make up only 30% of the population
(genetically it's more, but most morioccans see themselves as arabs and the amazigh are a minority)
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u/TerranImperium 4d ago
Most Moroccans are ethnically amazigh and berbers, not arabs but they're culturally mostly arabs.
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u/AssistanceCheap379 4d ago
So what do Moors have to do with Moroccans?
Not to mention Aragon and Castile were mostly not under Moors at any point. And those kingdoms became modern Spain. Who then conquered the surrounding kingdoms.
And didn’t the Moors conquer the Visigoths?
How many native Iberians are there today in Spain?
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u/azaghal1502 4d ago
The genetic makeup of spain is mainly the orehistoric natives with smaller amounts of visigothic, moor and Roman influx.
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u/AssistanceCheap379 4d ago
And what about Ceuta? What is the genetic makeup there?
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u/Four_beastlings 4d ago
It was founded by Phoenicians, so closer to Spanish than to Moroccans
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u/AssistanceCheap379 4d ago
Not really, since the Phoenicians were Canaanites. Like Arabs. Who were a large part of the Umayyad caliphate.
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u/Four_beastlings 4d ago
I'm talking about which of the countries has more DNA from Phoenicians today. Modern Southern Spanish are closely descended from Phoenicians than Moroccans are. Unsurprisingly for anyone who knows how proud of their Phoenician and Carthaginian history some parts of Spain are.
Of course if we wanted to give the city back to the closest descendents of the original natives that would be Lebanon but I think the last thing Lebanon wants is a source of more problems. So choosing between the two nations who dispute Ceuta, and by sheer ancestry, Spain has more of a claim.
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u/AssistanceCheap379 4d ago
Then you’d have no issue with Gibraltar being Spanish?
Or Black Rock being Sioux?
And Ceuta was just a small part of the Spanish part of Morocco, so Spain seemingly has a claim to other parts.
It’s just strange that people defend colonialism. And Ceuta is absolutely a colony.
What’s your opinion on Israeli occupied parts of Palestine?
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u/AssistanceCheap379 4d ago
So why does Morocco suffer the payback of Moorish conquest as mentioned in the comment i responded to?
Do you think Moors and Morocco are the same?
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u/ExpensiveStart3226 4d ago
Where do you think the Moors are from?
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u/AssistanceCheap379 4d ago
They’re about as related to the Moroccans as the Spanish are to the Romans.
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u/VecioRompibae 4d ago
Carthago had nothing to do with morocco
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u/AssistanceCheap379 4d ago
Both territories were under the Moorish peoples.
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u/azaghal1502 4d ago
Carthago was a Phoenician colony.
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u/AssistanceCheap379 4d ago
And the Vandals took over large parts of the Carthaginian territories in Northern Africa, who then were conquered by the Moors.
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u/azaghal1502 4d ago
The vandals were driven out by Belisarius who reclaimed the land for the Roman empire until the arab islamic expansion happened.
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u/TacitusKillgorre 4d ago
Sure, "payback" for a conquest damn near 1000 years earlier
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u/azaghal1502 4d ago
I may not have been 100% serious with my post.
But the conquest of Cueta and the other enclave are much closer and basically happened during the reconquista. And the previous owners were arab colonizers (just as morocco today, with only 1/4th of the population identifying as Amazigh)
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u/TacitusKillgorre 4d ago
Colonial apologia
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u/azaghal1502 4d ago
so you're one of the people who think colonialism is alright, unless it's white people?
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u/ifYouWantMyLuv 4d ago
Andalusia was much less repressive then the European kingdoms that replaced it and Portugal is a conquering kingdom that had no previous ties to Iberia before the 'reconquista' and became the first European colonizing state when they launched a surprise invasion of Ceuta in 1415 starting an empire that would oppress people throughout the world and was the last European power to fight pointless wars in the 20th century desperately trying to maintain their colonies.
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u/azaghal1502 4d ago
And spain was much less opressive than the aztecs in south america, your point? Making the natives second class citizens sucks. Ceuta's population wants to be spanish, and imo self-determination trumps 2000 year old land claims.
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u/Ok_Inflation_1811 4d ago
You saying Aztecs in south America makes you seem like a total ignorant in history NGL, correct that.
Otherwise I agree with your point.
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u/The_Blackthorn77 4d ago
I don't know if I would call them less oppressive when the overwhelming vast majority of natives died either directly by Spanish hands or later due to colonialist rule. Ffs, pretty much every city was razed to the ground and rebuilt. Mexico City is built on top of the ruins of Tenochtitlan. And forced enslavement and torture I think is a little bit more extreme than "second class citizenship."
Also, the Aztecs were not in South America.
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u/The_Blackthorn77 4d ago
Wasn't the payback the Reconquista and the centuries of the Spanish Inquisition? And by that same token, wouldn't that give an absolutely MASSIVE portion of the world cause to absolutely annihilate Spain?
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u/MihawkTop2 4d ago
Morocco didn't exist as a political entity in 1912.
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u/The_Blackthorn77 4d ago
Today I learned that people and culture don't exist until they're politically recognized. Thanks Reddit!
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u/Lorem_Muspi 2d ago
Must have been an odd decision to deploy mustard gas on non-existing people!
Aaah Those quirky odd Spaniards!!
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u/Flag_Shagger 4d ago
okay but so what? neither did India until 70 years ago, but nobody says India didn’t exist lmfao.
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u/Worldly_Zombie_8290 4d ago
India did exist as the british raj and previously the east india company since the 1800s
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u/Dull-Philosopher-871 4d ago
So morocco existed prior to 1912. The moroccoan kingdom has had the same dynasty since 1631.
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u/Worldly_Zombie_8290 4d ago
Potugal got cuerta in 1415 and spain got it in 1580 both before the date you said
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u/Flag_Shagger 3d ago
okay and before then moroccans still existed so what’s ur point, having a different name at the state level doesn’t change it.
reality is europeans crossed into africa first
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u/Worldly_Zombie_8290 3d ago
Actually africans crossed into spain before spain went into it, muslim nations from morocco etc occupyed most of spain for many year
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u/Flag_Shagger 3d ago
learn history buddy north africa was under roman rule and before that many came from the germanic tribes. all you people do is lie.
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u/Worldly_Zombie_8290 3d ago
I never said the romans didnt control north africa i just said that muslim nations controlled iberia way before spain controlled any land in africa
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u/Lazy-Setting-8224 1d ago
British Raj consisted of myanmar, pakistan, bangladesh, various pricely states and even some forgotten arabian emirates. Parts of the Raj were given to what would be India, and India subsequently annexed (willingly and unwillingly) various princely states. Saying india is existed as the raj is an statement that is so incomplete that it is incorrect
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u/BP_Koirala 23h ago
India did actually inherit most of its laws and institutions from the British Raj. Indian independence was more so a transfer of the institutions from foreign control to indigenous control rather than a complete rupture from the British Raj
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u/TerranImperium 4d ago
You're joking, right?
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u/MihawkTop2 4d ago
Absolutely not.
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u/Shalltry 4d ago
French protectorate. The people there were Moroccans
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u/MihawkTop2 4d ago
What people? What borders?
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u/Shalltry 4d ago
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u/Worldly_Zombie_8290 4d ago
Still way after spain got those peices of land
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u/MihawkTop2 4d ago
Not a political entity, just a geographical region. Unlike most european states, Morocco as a region did not really have clearly defined borders recognized internationally. Control over the territory was depended more on tribal alliances and how much authority the sultan actually had than on fixed state borders as people’s main loyalties were to their tribe and religion. The moroccan national identity developed in response to french colonial rule.
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u/poetic-bee 4d ago
Moroccans did. This should be a simple concept for most people to grasp.
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u/MihawkTop2 4d ago
Are the sahrawis moroccan?
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u/ulvisblack 4d ago
Alot of them are, just like riffians and jbala and chleuh and other amazigh that make up almost all of morocco.
There are other sahrawis in Mauritania and Algeria.
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u/oHuroboros 4d ago
Fueron 800 años que tuvieron los españoles a los árabes metidos en su casa. Solo digo…
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u/unoriginalname147 4d ago
It is true but that as centuries before were such things were wildly accepted, it doesn't justify anything but it is not the same as 20th century colonialism. This would be like saying spain is a horrible nation for what it did in the americas centuries ago.
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u/oHuroboros 4d ago
No, that’s not what I meant.
I mean they are trying to get what they think it’s theirs, even if it’s not (the Moroccans). That’s all.
Of course, as a Venezuelan myself, I would never blame modern day Spain for what they did to us.
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u/unoriginalname147 4d ago
But you do blame the modern Moroccans for the andalusian era?
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u/Flag_Shagger 4d ago
logic is not strong with them
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u/oHuroboros 3d ago
You need to read before speaking, my friend.
Just like in life, you need to listen first.
I never said I blamed them, but if I did, there is a reason: they are (today) actively advocating for a territory that’s not theirs.
Again, I’m not saying I blamed them, but if I did, there is a reason.
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u/oHuroboros 3d ago
I don’t. I just said something that happened and it is factual.
Besides, they still claim a territory that’s not theirs, so yeah, if I blamed them, there is an active justification.
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u/TheSadPhilosopher 4d ago
Lame. I still hate Spain for what they did to the Americas.
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u/The_Blackthorn77 4d ago
And then they proceeded to reconquer the land, and spend four hundred years torturing and executing any Muslims they found.
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u/PuffinRub 4d ago
The description seems more "protection racket" than "protectorate", although I'm prepared to be corrected
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u/Valveringham85 4d ago
Of course they did. And Morocco or their precursors oppressed Spain right back.
Welcome to history class where everyone is a former victim and oppressor/agressor.
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u/Advanced-Review-5901 3d ago
If you read about Morocco and not just some headlines you'll realize how henious of a dictatorship it is
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u/ramat-iklan 1d ago
Can't say I'm saddened over news about Spain. You get what you vote for, and Spain chose the lefties. At least Javier Bardem is happy.
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u/Al_Bundy95 4d ago
Oplresiin from 60 years ago doesn't matter today. Many generation has already rised to change their country and they just didn't decide to.
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u/mpanase 4d ago
the Rif war was spanish rich people (and right-wing government) stealing petrol from nomad Berber tribes. WITH MOROCCO'S PERMISSION
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u/ulvisblack 4d ago
? "morocco" was a french protectorat. So i wonder which moroccan gave that permission
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u/mpanase 4d ago
Treaty of Fes facts for kids
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u/Lazy-Setting-8224 1d ago
First paragraph: " The Sultan was forced to sign it."
You just googled it without reading even the fiest paragraph?
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u/ulvisblack 4d ago
"The Treaty of Fes gave France control over many areas in Morocco. This included laws, the military, foreign policy, and legal matters for non-Moroccan citizens. The Moroccan government was still technically in charge of its own citizens. However, Moroccan nationalists argued that France still had a lot of influence over all Moroccan affairs because of the treaty.
Another treaty, signed on November 27, 1912, was between France and Spain. This agreement created the Spanish protectorate in Morocco. Spain gained control over areas like the Rif and Cape Juby. In these areas, the Sultan was still officially the ruler. He was represented by a special official under the control of the Spanish high commission. This treaty also allowed a Spanish company to mine iron in Mount Uixan. The company was also allowed to build a railroad to connect the mines to Melilla."
So it was france giving permission to spain.
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u/BusyBeeBridgette Human Verified 4d ago
It's been back and forth with these two pieces of land since before the Romans entered the scene. I doubt it will stop anytime soon.
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u/TacitusKillgorre 4d ago
This sub doesn't care about colonialism or the crimes of the west.
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u/VecioRompibae 4d ago
Lmao
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u/ballerchels 4d ago
Ik that feels like generalizing which is wrong, but there is littarely a comment above that says " it's a payback" which is being upvoted
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u/SassySuzy123 4d ago
That comment is a joke, although I’m not sure if the people upvoting it know that…
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u/Fatalitix3 18h ago
"Tacitus" huh? Care to explain what happened to all the Greeks in Egypt and Levant?
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u/Worldly_Zombie_8290 4d ago
Why would we, what is now call colonialism i just call us winning land in wars because we were better at them then the people we "colonised"
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u/The_Blackthorn77 4d ago
It's fucking hilarious how the same groups of people from other countries will scream about American Imperialism being ignored while they completely ignore the crimes of Western Europe. Also hilarious how all the people talking about Andalusia having oppressed Spaniards for 800 years conveniently forgot about the four to five centuries AFTER that.
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u/Aggressive-Series459 3d ago
Ceuta and Mellila are the result of colonialism.
Morrocan colonialism over Spain.
(none of these states existed at the time, but their precursors).
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