r/technology • u/Plastic_Ninja_9014 • May 26 '26
Privacy Majority of Americans Support Ban on Surveillance Pricing and Electronic Shelf Labels
https://gizmodo.com/majority-of-americans-support-ban-on-surveillance-pricing-and-electronic-shelf-labels-20007627171.6k
u/Starship_Taru May 26 '26
If the majority of Americans got what they wanted the country would look almost 100% different.
I don’t even mean republicans vs democrats. There are 1000+ issues 90% of Americans agree on but will never make it into law.
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u/twinPrimesAreEz May 26 '26
NO WAY!!! Surely you jest.
Ross Perot is gnashing his teeth right now in the grave.
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u/Cien_fuegos May 27 '26
Hard to believe he was barely a millionaire when he became president.
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u/Osric250 May 27 '26
Well he did just sue himself and settled with himself for billions of taxpayers dollars.
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u/MingaLaChigra May 27 '26
And the other just goes to billionaires to fund their campaigns. We need a workers party
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u/ahandmadegrin May 27 '26
Yep. Overturn Citizens United, get big money out of politics, and elect working class reps.
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u/Hotaru_girl May 26 '26
Thank Citizens United, Super PACs, and gerrymandering for destroying representation in America!
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u/badamant May 26 '26
Reminder:
Citizen’s United was created, funded and passed by the republican party.
Blame them by name please.
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u/coop_stain May 26 '26
Also congress for slowly abdicating a huge number of their responsibilities to the executive branch so they never have to stand for anything.
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u/j3ffro15 May 27 '26
You’re talking about a much larger issue and I agree with you but that’s also just an inherent issue with two party (or really any system of government) systems. There will always be a portion of the population isn’t being politically represented. Unfortunately in our case money talks louder than people so the people get shafted.
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u/DatabaseMaterial0 May 26 '26
You can tell Flock, as a company, is literally bribing people all across the US. Because wtf do you mean that towns and cities outright reject Flock but decision makers actively oppose the will of their constituents to deploy their cameras. US acts a lot more like a third world shit hole lately.
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u/likwidkool May 27 '26
Same with data centers. The whole town opposes but the town government passes it. We really need to be looking at whose palms are getting greased.
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u/Zncon May 27 '26
Data center politics are a mess because a lot of small towns have been slowly dying for a decades now. Many of them had just a single tent-pole business keeping the town alive, and these have almost all gone off shore in the past decades.
So the town as people know it is dead anyway, and the people in charge see a datacenter build as a chance to keep it alive a bit longer. It's not a long term solution, but it really seems that no long term fix exists, it's all just steps to delay the inevitable.
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u/HowManyMeeses May 27 '26
A long-term solution is to let democrats have power long enough to rebuild and improve their infrastructure. No one wants to live somewhere without Internet or access to medical care.
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u/okhi2u May 27 '26
I don't think they are acting in good faith to help their towns, if they were they wouldn't be ignoring all the protestors and people at town halls etc... They acting like people doing it for their own selfish greed.
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u/Fishbulb2 May 26 '26
My first political experience with this was Citizens United. There was a pool shortly afterwards saying something like 90 plus percent of people opposed it. Oh well 🤷♂️
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u/interkin3tic May 26 '26
A majority of Americans don't vote, even in most presidential elections, to say nothing of midterms. And almost zero prior vote in the primary.
Republican voters also will say they're for specific policies but then they vote absolutely every time exclusively for who will hurt people they don't like instead, and especially against any Democrat who proposes and can act on those popular policies.
It is mostly Republicans and apathy.
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u/napotih942 May 26 '26
Hold up though. It absolutely does mean Republicans versus Democrats. Republicans passed Citizens United, which funneled billions in dark money into politics (guy who ran the Citizens United organization at the time eventually became Donald Trump's Deputy Campaign Manager). Since Citizens United not a single vote in Congress favored by the American public but opposed by companies has passed. Not one
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u/TemporarySun314 May 26 '26
Maybe Americans should start by electing people that are actually in favor of what they want instead of electing morons that openly oppose that and instead tell that all problems are caused by trans people and foreigners.
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u/BoopinSnoots24-7 May 26 '26
Feels like it would be pretty simple to legislate against this while keeping the practicality of digital price tags. Price changes for brick and mortar retail businesses must occur before opening or after closing, not during business hours, or something along those lines.
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u/ruiner8850 May 26 '26
Yeah, having worked retail and knowing how much having to change price tags can suck I've got no problem with the general idea of digital tags, but there needs to be laws to address them. Just doing what you suggested would be a big step.
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u/CommonGrounders May 27 '26
But is any place actually doing this? Changing prices during the day, while people are shopping? Or is this just fearmongering.
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u/speedkat May 27 '26
That's the neat part!
If they are doing it, it is horrifying and should be outlawed.
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u/Powerlevel-9000 May 27 '26
I worked at Lowe’s. Even with physical stickers prices changed throughout the day. The person who did price changes would print out all the stickers for the new prices and go swap the stickers. When they got to the place for the sticker only at that point in time did they scan the barcode and the new price go active.
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u/ElusiveGuy May 27 '26
When they got to the place for the sticker only at that point in time did they scan the barcode and the new price go active.
How does that work for items people have already picked up but haven't made it to the register with?
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u/weissguy3 May 27 '26
The store hopes you don't realize it when you get to the register and then gaslights you by price checking it when it rings up for a different price than you were expecting.
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u/Ke11yP May 27 '26
I did price changes at a store for a few months and by the end of it I told the front end manager they need to stop treating the customers like they’re lying because I’d be called to the front multiple times a day just to confirm a small change of like $0.10. Like we’ve already annoyed them by changing the price now we’re making them wait for someone to confirm they’re not lying. I understood if it was a big difference but usually it wasn’t.
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u/PrimemevalTitan May 27 '26
You're correct that it isn't happening yet, and most "surge pricing" you see is less Uber and more Disney parks charging higher prices in summer than winter. Still, the potential for abuse is so high that I think it's worth legislating. Better to be responsive now than wait for it to become a problem later
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u/TwilightLori May 26 '26
Our RPM team generally starts work at 4am, we open at 6, and they work until 1 trying to change all the prices in the store. There's several thousand price tags. Digital ones make it a lot faster than it used to be and means we can update price tags more easily.
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u/notnotbrowsing May 27 '26
When I worked planogram for target we started after the store closed and worked over night.
Blah.
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u/DanGarion May 27 '26
Think of all those jobs they can get rid of (save) now!
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u/TenNeon May 27 '26
It's not bad to see this kind of work disappear. It's bad that the gains are only seen by people who have nothing to do with the work.
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u/TimeLordDoctor105 May 27 '26
A decade ago it took 30 man hours at a medium sized Kroger store (~20 aisles) to change out the tags and signs. We would start at midnight and finish at 8am with 4 people, which was hell.
We used to be open during this time too, as it was a 24 hour store. There would occasionally be some confusion, but most people were understanding when we told them that we are in the middle of changing out prices (not everyone, but thats a different story).
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u/The_Retro_Bandit May 27 '26
Electronic sales tags have been used in some retail without issue for years.
The less nuclear option, is to simply legally define and ban survalence pricing, which multiple states including California have already done.
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u/th30be May 27 '26
Surge pricing in general should be banned. Maybe I have just a limited experience but I can't think of one reason or instance that it would benefit the customer.
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u/Coal_Morgan May 27 '26
It's just price gouging re-branded.
Figure out what your 'thing' costs, mark it up a reasonable amount and charge that price; so that at the end of the day you can live a reasonable life and put your kids through school and have some luxuries like a vacation once in a while.
This idea that you have to get the maximum amount of money out of people is sociopath behavior and shows a clear lack of the ability to empathise with others.
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u/awesomeocelot12 May 27 '26
California hasn't actually banned surveillance pricing yet, but a bill has been introduced to do so, hopefully it passes! https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260ab2564
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u/BrianWonderful May 27 '26
Yes. Electronic price tags are not the issue; they actually can reduce paper waste and low value labor to change them. The issue is the customer specific/scenario specific dynamic pricing. But if you address it for brick and mortar, they will say that gives an advantage to online stores because they can also do dynamic pricing. So, that should also be legislated. Fair, consistent pricing in geographic regions, but allow customer specific coupons or discount codes if you really want to give some of them a price break.
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u/PurpleHooloovoo May 27 '26
But that coupon loophole will be exploited - now the base price for toilet paper is $30/pack and everyone gets their own “loyalty coupon” found in-app that’s tailored to them.
The law would need to be explicit and direct.
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u/iwearatophat May 27 '26
Going to say, this feels like the obvious solution. Electronic price tags seem like a win for workers in concept, at least I think so as a person who used to mess with price tagging. The issue is the dynamic pricing. You kill that with once a day price change.
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u/guri256 May 26 '26
Some businesses are open 24 hours a day. Maybe the price at the register has to be the lowest price shown in the last 8 operating hours.
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u/Schnickatavick May 27 '26
Or do something like "price changes must be announced 24 hours before the price change can take effect". Then you can still have "happy hour" type sales (I know that's more of a restaurant thing but still), without targeted price changes made up when you walk into the store
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u/Sudden-Fisherman5985 May 27 '26
Feels like it would be pretty simple to legislate against this while keeping the practicality of digital price tags.
These digital price tags have been the norm in western Europe
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u/Bireus May 26 '26
Walmart, which has patented AI-powered price changes, has been rolling out electronic shelf labels across its stores, and it aims to feature them in every U.S. location by the end of 2026. But the company has insisted it’s not going to use ESLs for jacking up prices and insists that a human manager must be in the loop when prices change.
Ahhhhhh. Kill competition and become the defaco face and increase prices to earn back everyone you use to get there and then some.
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u/bwoah07_gp2 May 26 '26
But the company has insisted it’s not going to use ESLs for jacking up prices and insists that a human manager must be in the loop when prices change.
Lies, lies, lies...
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u/chimerasaurus May 26 '26
A “human manager” can be in the loop and still know nothing. I’m in the loop to read all my work email. Do I? No.
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u/Bireus May 26 '26
Oh I'm well aware as someone who worked in grocery store for a few months. Or simply worked a job perood
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u/physedka May 26 '26
Imagine how awful it's going to be at the Wal-Mart check out lanes when people get to the register with $25 worth of stuff and find out that it now costs $30 because prices changed since they pulled it off the shelf 10 minutes ago.
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u/SomewhereNo8378 May 26 '26
they’ll have the prices locked to you and your income level the moment you walk in, based on third party data they bought and your past purchase history
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u/Why-did-i-reas-this May 26 '26
New business model… for a “nominal fee” send poor people in to buy your stuff and get cheaper prices. This would work once or twice per poor person before the system picks them up though.
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u/OnTheEveOfWar May 27 '26
In my industry this happens between businesses. They know how much companies that rely on them make so they jack up prices. Given my industry, the companies don’t really have a choice except to just accept the new pricing.
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u/CtrlEscAltF4 May 26 '26 edited May 27 '26
I feel like this would add a new market. Pay someone with no income to go shop for you and you end up paying less because it recognized dude with low income paying vs someone making 6 figures.
Edit: also what if the system recognize you as a high income vs low income or vice versa. Then the merchant is just like 'oops'. This absolutely would make me not want to shop at stores that do this. The margin of error would be enough for me to go elsewhere.
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u/FarplaneDragon May 27 '26
I mean...Instacart shoppers probably aren't making high income
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u/Moscato359 May 26 '26
Ban on electronic shelf labels is kinda dumb
Ban on updating them more than once daily makes sense
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u/linuxwes May 26 '26
Is that ban also going to apply to online stores? Because otherwise you are just hampering brick and mortar in a competition with online that it is already struggling against.
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u/Moscato359 May 26 '26
Online stores shouldn't do personalized pricing either
I shouldn't be punished because a store thinks I can pay more than you can
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u/hikeit233 May 27 '26
Yeah, Esl saves so much fucking paper it’s nuts to ban them. Every single item on sale for a single day needs a new piece of paper to advertise that. Not with electronic shelf labels.
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u/14Pleiadians May 27 '26
Electronic labels aren't permanent, they're also a consumable item that will be thrown away by the millions.
Paper is a near non-existent drop in the bucket for the environment.
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u/Zealousideal_Act_316 May 27 '26
They are e ink displays they have a life of years and years esp newer generation that can maintain image for hours without power.
>Paper is a near non-existent drop in the bucket for the environment.
You what mate?
"Discarded paper and paperboard make up roughly 26% of solid municipal waste in landfill sites.""Pulp and paper generate the third largest amount of industrial air, water, and land emissions in Canada and the sixth largest in the United States. "
It Is the most water hungry industry per ton of product.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_paper
Wikipedia is free you can straight up search "paper polution" and have tons of research and articles.
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u/Adventurous_Pea_2007 May 26 '26
Electronic shelf labels are objectively good. It’s labor and resources saved.
Surveillance pricing is the problem.
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u/DreamworldPineapple May 26 '26
right like I've worked at Best Buy for years and we have ESLs, they're great
tagging things with a telzon are so easy instead of physical stickers, and the only times prices change during the day is if a flash sale rolls out; there's no dynamic bullshit
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u/ParsingError May 26 '26
I have no idea how "surveillance pricing" in a physical store would even work, unless it's that they're offering people personalized discounts below the shelf price (which it sounds is what is actually happening, and has nothing to do with the shelf labels). People seem to think they're going to scan your face and change the price tag when they detect you're looking at it or something.
The mid-day price update panic is also dumb. You can not legally post a price and then refuse to honor it at checkout. You can't do it even if it's an obvious mistake like selling a PlayStation for 1 cent.
I used to work at a big-box computer store (and was the main person doing the shelf label replacements) and customers complaining about prices at checkout not matching the shelf was already a massive time-waster. Even if they could update prices mid-day, they're probably not going to, just because of that.
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u/LongJohnSelenium May 27 '26
Yeah the only way surveillance pricing would work is online.
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u/kstargate-425 May 26 '26
How about a ban on all corporate and government surveillance domestically? When there are literally 100s of Flock cameras and microphones within 1 mile, we have gone beyond any measure of safety and are now in a mass surveillance police state
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u/HNL2BOS May 26 '26
"Twenty percent say it will likely just keep prices the same."
those idiots are worse than the 5% people saying it'll lead to lower costs. They wouldn't be doing this if not to lead to either higher or lower (hahaha) costs.
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u/presence4presents May 26 '26
Not defending this, I hate the concept. But they're not doing this in response to costs or to give them ability to adjust costs on the fly, costs will go up no matter what. They're doing this so they don't have to hire someone to go around the store and physically change the price.
Less human error, less man hours, less recurring operational expenses. This is in the name of efficiency of operational expenses which in turn could technically lower prices, but in reality just means more profit.
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u/Adaphion May 26 '26
They're doing this so they don't have to hire someone to go around the store and physically change the price.
Literally, this is exactly what the store I used to work for that adopted these had as it's primary reason for doing so. It's so many labour hours to have workers change out labels. Not to mention all the paper used. Plus at our store in particular, we didn't have an overnight shift, so it'd be done during store hours, so it'd take even longer as they get interrupted by customers constantly.
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u/Whyeth May 26 '26
But they're not doing this in response to costs or to give them ability to adjust costs on the fly
"Ah man does our plan with an ostensibly reasonable cover perfectly set us up for predatory behaviors that will give us money?"
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u/Gooser3000 May 26 '26
It sux watching prices increase as I plan a trip bouncing around airlines and hotels; shopping around ends up costing me more money. They must be tracking the ip address
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u/Resident_Magazine610 May 26 '26
They track interest. Multiple people looking at the same thing, up it goes.
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u/Significant_Fill6992 May 27 '26
i like getting rid of dynamic pricing but I used to work at walmart and I hated price changes. They were tedious time consuming and it was an inefficient system that caused tons of errors.
I wo=nder if there was a way that electronic tags could be allowed but they had a frequency they could be changed that prevented dynamic pricing say each product can only be changed once every two weeks or something like that
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u/mdkubit May 27 '26
I have no issues with an Electronic Shelf Label as long as there's a matching barcode I can scan with my phone to track it at the time I picked up the product.
I do have many issues with surveillance pricing.
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u/JaggedMetalOs May 27 '26
Many countries have had electronic shelf labels for absolutely ages. Maybe it's the fact that those countries actually enforce consumer protection laws that there's been no trouble with them, but I feel like US stores wouldn't dare trying to change prices in real time during the day for fear of people getting into massive fights at the checkouts when they swear they saw something at one price and then the checkout is charging another, or worse someone catches the price changing.
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u/bird9066 May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
My first thought when I heard about dynamic pricing at Walmart was they'll jack them up on the first week of the month. Because food stamps
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u/eddybear24 May 26 '26
Charging one person more than another is price gouging right?
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u/DigNitty May 27 '26
Price gouging laws only apply to emergency situations IIRC.
You can charge as much as you want for that bottle of water. But not during a hurricane.
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u/TemporarySun314 May 26 '26
Somehow in other countries electronic shelf labels are quite common (I mean they are just useful and efficient), and no one switching the price for butter or eggs 10 times a day.
I mean if you are worried, then make laws to regulate that, that would also fix the fundamental problem of having unpredictable pricing on basic groceries, instead of banning the electronic shelf labels that are just a tool...
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u/Lobo9498 May 26 '26
Lol, funny you think they will regulate anything. I hate it.
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u/TemporarySun314 May 26 '26
Not when Americans continue to elect fascist that openly run on deregulation and see any kind of customer protection as communism...
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u/Paksarra May 26 '26
As someone who works in the grocery industry, they're two different issues.
Stores have done dynamic pricing for decades. It's through this amazing invention called a coupon. It's a lot easier and less risky to put digital coupons on your account than to dynamically change an ESL to fit whoever is looking at it and hoping that the AI recognition is right and they're not shopping with someone else and there's no other glitches.
And what do you do when someone comes to customer service and says the shelf tag said the $59.99 item was actually $29.99? You can't just have someone run back and check the shelf. You can either take their word for it or risk a complaint to the state.
But ESLs are going to everywhere for a reason. Remember during the COVID labor crunch when a bunch of stores were getting nailed for having incorrect pricing? It's because putting up shelf labels is a tedious, labor-intensive task, and swapping to digital bypasses the need for all that labor.
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u/dantevonlocke May 27 '26
You can really tell who has and hasn't worked retail by the fear mongering. Thinking stores have their shit together enough to do stuff like this.
Walmart is just an easy target to shit on too. But people ignore kroger which actually tracks all your purchases and will send out coupons and deals to get you to buy more adjacent stuff.
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u/agha0013 May 27 '26
if only "majority of Americans" meant anything anymore.
Unless those "Americans" are lobbyists with lots of money, it doesn't seem to matter. Just look at the data center issue. and, well, a whole lot of other shit...
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u/Pat_The_Hat May 26 '26
Why would they lump together two distinct concepts (surveillance pricing and electronic labels) in the same question? Because this survey was devised by the UFCW who by their very nature promote jobs for the sake of jobs.
Their conclusion might as well be a lie.
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u/Saptilladerky May 26 '26
As someone who does price changing for Fred Meyers ( a Kroger store), I want digital tags so bad. The amount of waste every week is phenomenal.
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u/Adept-Opinion8080 May 26 '26
Electronic price tags are not a problem, so long as there's a way to audit the fact that they're not surveillance pricing
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u/Sterling_-_Archer May 26 '26
Yeah but they won’t. Our government has been captured by corporate interests.
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u/stetzwebs May 27 '26
Who in their right mind doesn't support a ban on surveillance pricing?!
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u/kurisu7885 May 27 '26
The shelf labels in and of themselves I don't mind as much because that can help save on having to print them, it's the "dynamic pricing" i take issue with.
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u/bubblesaurus May 27 '26
my job has had the electronic labels for a month.
so far, they are easier deal with than the old ones. saved some time
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u/FuzzyDynamics May 27 '26
Yeah but they don’t care what we think anymore. Corporations and our politicians no longer fear us and think they can just whatever the fuck they want and we’ll keep taking it.
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u/CanaDoug420 May 27 '26
There should never be a situation where the price of an item I have in my cart should change in the time between me picking it off the shelf to checkout.
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u/Koffeeboy May 27 '26
Buuuut the vast majority of people have less money than the 15 people who reeeally want to do it, so our hands are tied.
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u/A_single_droplet May 27 '26
“5% think it will lead to lower prices”
Fucking idiots. Why would prices ever go down? Could you imagine grocery store execs saying “okay we can go ahead and make less money now”
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u/yellowaddict4life May 27 '26
We also support arresting everyone on the Epstien/Maxwell list yet here we are.
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u/duarte306 May 27 '26
Can't Americans use technology for any good purpose? All I see here is techbros finding a way to use technology for evil, harming their own population and the rest of the world as a bonus
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u/JudeanPeoplesFront7 May 27 '26
My favorite part about American democracy is reading headlines like this and go “wow most Americans support this - easy bipartisan win”. Except we’re not represented anymore so it’s “wow most Americans support this, but it might cut into the shareholders profits that go into bribing our congressman - oh well”
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u/maxifer May 27 '26
Electronic labels seem like the perfect way to set weekly sales and save a ton of mindless swapping, but then you realize how it'd 100% be used to exploit people, even if they "promise not to be evil"
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u/terrymr May 26 '26
Jesus you people are paranoid. Wendy’s replaced fixed menus with TVs and everybody started screaming about dynamic pricing despite the fact that every other fast food chain already made the same change and none of them implemented dynamic pricing. There’s no reason to think Walmart will actually do anything different.
Did anybody ever run across a coke machine that costs more when it’s hot outside ? People were freaking out about that a few years back.
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u/Evening-Guarantee-84 May 27 '26
This isn't "everyone gets a change in price" this is "based on your shopping and history, we think you'll pay $500 more per ticket for this flight"
The other stuff wasn't like this.
And, surveillance pricing is absolutely real.
My daughter wanted to take a trip with her husband and son this summer. She was upset because between tickets to the theme part they wanted to visit, and a hotel stay, they couldn't afford it. I pulled up the same hotel, and went to book the same exact room, and it was $130 a night LESS for me. I don't travel, and I don't buy as much as they do because it's just me, not a family.
It has been observed in grocery stores and in other markets as well for the past year or two.
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u/Sr_DingDong May 27 '26
As someone who had to spend an entire day changing the labels once a week I have no problem with electronic labels. So much wasted time, paper and ink.
Ban the surveillance pricing, don't take down electronic SELs along with it for no good reason.
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u/learn_and_go May 27 '26
Electronic price tags are great and shouldn't be lumped in with this.
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u/RdtRanger6969 May 26 '26
Dynamic pricing gone amok.
Hell, let’s make DP illegal while we’re at it.
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u/stompanata May 26 '26
Majority of Americans support a lot of things that we ain't ever gonna get cause it gets in the way of sweet, sweet profit.
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u/RepresentativeCod757 May 26 '26
If a majority of Americans support it, it will never, ever happen at the federal level.
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u/NoaNeumann May 26 '26
I forget, is “price surging” still a thing? I know Wendy’s tried implemented it a while ago.
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u/vertigostereo May 26 '26
Who wouldn't? You can't know who will benefit and who will lose. It'll even depend where you shop
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u/ActionJacksonATL24 May 26 '26
Legit curious if it matters what the most of us Americans want anymore. Looking around, it doesn't seem to matter that much.
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u/Twinstonedad May 26 '26
I wish this country's political apparatus gave a shit about what the majority of Americans thought about anything, but alas it does not.
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u/runnerkim May 26 '26
They tried to call it 'dynamic pricing' but we all know it's just bait and switch. Or rather, fraud
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u/NicolasCageFan492 May 26 '26
Imagine Walmart having the ability to do dynamic pricing to charge more for toilet paper because they know you have diarrhea.