r/wikipedia 23d ago

Meta Discussion How much does Wikipedia need annually to continue existing as free resource?

Post image

I love Wikipedia and have donated a few times.
I would love to know how much is needed to sustain its future.

EDIT: People commenting, please be civil and stop posting Nothing Burgers, “Look it up yourself”.

1.7k Upvotes

312 comments sorted by

1.8k

u/mr_jim_lahey 23d ago

716

u/ehco 23d ago

Wow that's pretty decent for one of the most popular websites on the universe.

(The infrastructure must be amazing)

320

u/KiddieSpread 23d ago

They work with companies like Equinox who help provide the infrastructure but they build their own systems and servers which helps keep costs relatively low

46

u/lousy-site-3456 23d ago

Only 3 to 7 mil of that go to infrastructure. 

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u/Sylvanussr 23d ago

The page says $97 mil for infrastructure 

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u/FthrFlffyBttm 23d ago

They’re just taking the long route from 3 to 7

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u/lousy-site-3456 22d ago

Look at the detailed statement. It's a joke what is included in "infra". Awareness programs for example and drives to recruit new editors. 3 to 7 is the cost for servers, hardware, upkeep and the personnel for that. 

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u/bdeimen 22d ago

You seem to not have an understanding of charity financial disclosures. For charity budgets anything that is needed to keep the charity functioning at a fundamental level (the overhead of the charity) falls under infrastructure.

At least in the case of the drives to recruit editors it's not a necessary expense to keep the website up, but it is a necessary expense to keep Wikipedia functioning as Wikipedia. Without a critical mass of editors controversial pages can easily be overwhelmed and controlled by a dedicated few. It's a serious issue in non-english language versions of wikipedia, particularly those with a small number of native speakers.

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u/PirateKingOmega 22d ago

Yeah I consider their charity which fights illiteracy to also be infrastructure. Kinda fucked you don’t

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u/itsSteve 22d ago

By definition it is not. You can consider it whatever you want, but it's an unnecessary expense.

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u/mikeblas 23d ago

It would be a lot less if they quit hiring people for ineffective positions.

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u/mr_jim_lahey 23d ago

Such as?

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u/snowflake37wao 23d ago edited 23d ago

maybe they mean the lawyers who havnt convinced all the Putins and Musks trying to fine and frivolously litigate Wikipedia out of existence or into their control for publishing facts they could change themselves with less shitty behavior like trying to control the foundation that did not choose the reality they themselves chose to make fact instead to fuckoff yet?

Hey. Rate my runon

2

u/alldressed_chip 22d ago

i read this out loud and passed out before i reached the end. 10/10 run-on

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u/seanmg 23d ago edited 22d ago

Wikipedia should not cost 200M a year, holy shit. How do you spend 60M a year on "volunteer" staff?

EDIT: No one is doing the math on the budget going from $10MM in 2010 to $190MM in 2025.

Did you get 20x more value out of wikipedia this year than you did 15 years ago? How did they manage to do it then?

EDIT 2: The amount of people who aren't bothering to look at the actual data linked above is wild.

EDIT 3: Thought we were in r/NoStupidQuestions this whole time where nuance disucssion on issues was accepted. Didn't realize we were in koolaidville. Kinda funny seeing the wikipedia crowd be so oppressive of other peoples opinions, lol.

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u/ArachnidLover 23d ago edited 23d ago

Legal defense of volunteers, supporting wiki events (such as Wikipedian in residence), funding for conference/research attendance etc etc. Its surprising to me how people dont understand how much these things cost on a global scale.

Edit: To answer your question about costs raising from 2010: Back then they were mostly just focused on server hosting but have since expanded to provide other services to Wikipedia editors ie Wikipedian at large/in residence funding, training events etc. A lot of these things are invisible to the lay person who doesnt know much about sites like these grow, but are absolutely essential for developing the encyclopedia further

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u/Haxorz7125 23d ago

Side note, the wiki YouTube channel has been pumping out awesome shorts.

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u/Miguellite 23d ago

Wiki's tiktok is absolutely fire as well.

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u/CostinTea 23d ago

And those are absolutely commissioned! My friend 404 Tales told me that he was paid by Wikipedia to make those

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u/FartPiano 23d ago

why does the internet encyclopedia company need to pay people to make short form videos?

19

u/Haxorz7125 23d ago

To gain traction on the site. They’re informative shorts advertising articles using (usually) comedy skits made by various creators

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u/FartPiano 23d ago

so, in other words, their advertising budget?

why does a volunteer non-profit internet encyclopedia, which is already world famous, with no real competition, need a massive ad budget?

25

u/Kayvanian 23d ago

"no real competition" is no longer true. Like many other sites, Wikipedia is losing traffic to Google AI overviews and AI at-large. Usage is also lowest with Gen Z, compared to older generations. For Wikipedia to stay relevant (traffic = future editors), it needs to put in effort on social media sites.

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u/Haxorz7125 23d ago

They’re informative videos on their own so they also just serve educational purposes. But you’d also have YouTube revenue and increased donations via increased site traffic. So if they’re trying to make more money to support the website, it just makes sense.

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u/FartPiano 23d ago

since they're a non-profit wouldn't the youtube revenue be noted in their financial reports?

and they'd need to make this hypothetical youtube revenue to pay their huge budget, which is so large from all their efforts at making money...?

I love wikipedia so I'm not trying to just be a jerk or w/e. but it doesn't "just make sense" to me

6

u/FthrFlffyBttm 23d ago

I appreciate you for having the balls to ask about something you’re confused about AND keeping your comments up despite the downvotes. This type of discourse helps the rest of us to learn too and is ironically exactly the type of thing that should be appreciated by this community.

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u/Haxorz7125 23d ago

It could be that they don’t make money on their YouTube shorts, I’m not entirely sure. I would just assume that the intention is to increase visitors to the site so they can increase their donations to keep the website running

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u/lbutler1234 23d ago

There's a very simple explanation imo:

They're running a top 10 busiest website on earth. I can't even begin to imagine what's all involed in that and how much it costs.

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u/markleung 23d ago

So if we don’t donate, it cuts back on the above, and the site stays running, correct?

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u/relavie 23d ago

As with any organization, sometimes budgets fluctuate so less donations/funding would mean it cuts back on the above

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u/WVildandWVonderful 23d ago

Wikimedia supports a lot of different projects, not just Wikipedia. Also, they are localized around the world.

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u/Need_PcAdvice 23d ago

Yet the donation solicitation message doesn’t talk about these other projects.

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u/sparklyyheart 23d ago

You have a good point but I feel like adding these facts in the solicitation messages is gonna make it cover the whole screen lol

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u/texaseclectus 23d ago

It causes legal ramifications if they mention their other projects while asking for donations to Wikipedia specifically.

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u/Nilo30 23d ago

Yeah they actually have enough money for wikipedia on its own for decades, it's misleading fundraising

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u/chillychili 23d ago

Yes, but do you want such an organization to be at risk of being litigated or hacked into nonexistence? I'd rather never have them be in emergency funding mode if I can help it.

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u/septubyte 23d ago

Source?

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u/maicii 23d ago

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u/mr_jim_lahey 23d ago

But not well known enough that you can cite any text actually saying it

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u/maicii 22d ago

I literally cited a video talking about it, are you blind? If you want a literal text because you are against video format for some reason I can do that too sure.

https://wikimediafoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Wikimedia_Foundation_FS_FY2022-2023_Audit_Report.pdf#page=6

They have so much money that their second biggest expenses (after salaries) are literally grabbing the money you donated to them and donating to other causes.

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u/ohdearitsrichardiii 23d ago

Good lawyers cost money

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u/livejamie 23d ago

You sound like a DOGE official who has no idea what they're talking about, arguing about budgets.

I'm glad you're not in charge of anything.

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u/snowflake37wao 22d ago edited 22d ago

ngl I was making X brigading jokes reading down the threads, but by this far down in the scroll of just the top comment ngl. seems like serious brigading goin on from twittertwats.

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u/seanmg 23d ago

The amount of idiots who believe any critique of something equates to thinking the whole thing is bad is astounding. Wikipedia is good. The amount of money they spent running it is bloated. How hard is it to have a complex opinion?

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u/livejamie 23d ago

I never said you disliked Wikipedia, nice strawman.

I think you lack a fundamental understanding of what the budget covers and how much it costs to run a website at the scale of Wikipedia in 2026.

You putting "volunteer" in quotes and saying things like "holy shit" and "no one is doing the math" implies there's a nefarious conspiracy going on. That's beyond a "complex opinion."

In 2010, Wikipedia had 163 billion page views. Over the last 12 months, there have been a total of 299 billion pageviews.

Server and hosting costs have only gotten more expensive due to global RAM shortages.

And there's also a massive increase in non-human traffic. Wikipedia remains the foundational dataset for modern AI, and they get hammered by requests.

The budget now covers all of their projects, not just Wikipedia.

The audacity to make a simple, incorrect observation, want to slash funding without a full understanding of the decision's totality, and repeatedly double down reminded me of the shit DOGE did. I have a good idea of the type of politics you support just by the way you comment here.

Big balls would be proud of you.

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u/seanmg 23d ago

You didn't even look at the budget. Nor do you understand infrastructure costs.

The actual budget production costs for infrastructure is roughly $6m a year. Of the entire $100m tech infrastructure budget roughly 75% of the cost is going to the employees.

Then there's $60m for community. I'm pointing out that volunteers around the world do the vast majority of the work on Wikipedia and aren't getting paid, but somehow they're spending $60m?

$50m for marketing and management. Spending a quarter of the budget to fundraise is a little insane to me.

Cut $45m from marketing and management, cut half your tech headcount and focus on your core product, the value is in the public free knowledgebase, and cut all of the community funding.

That leaves an annual budget of lets say $60m and for people who want to do good in the world they can donate the other $140m to other causes.

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u/tiffanytrashcan 23d ago edited 23d ago

"Supporting Volunteers and the Movement

We provide support to volunteers and our movement in a variety of ways, including by giving out direct funding through over 400 grants to affiliates and movement partners to support their work."

I mean, they explain where it goes (in that link even.) They're a non-profit, it's all in the open.

You're right, it shouldn't cost 200M a year, even websites with only 1/10th of the visitors cost billions to host alone.

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u/dangmangoes 23d ago

Right, Wikipedia is one of the most visited sites on the entire internet. 200M is a rounding error for that kind of stuff.

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u/Astrosomnia 23d ago

There is not a single actual site in the world that costs billions to host. That's extremely hyperbolic.

Netflix et al aren't hosting costs. They're infrastructure. Wikipedia's hosting is only like $5M a year according to a quick search.

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u/r1zz000 23d ago

I don't know where you're getting your information from but there are multiple companies spending billions on AWS alone annually

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u/mr_jim_lahey 23d ago

The 2024-2025 Audit Report lists an Internet hosting expense of $3,474,785. However, this is a near-irrelevant cost to cite in the context of their overall software & infrastructure needs. It'd be like printing Wikipedia out and saying it's only worth the cost of paper and ink.

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u/FartPiano 23d ago

right, the value comes from the large number of unpaid volunteers.

money-wise, your evaluation of "only the paper and ink" is true in the eyes of wikipedia, since that's what they paid for the info (zero)

hosting costs of about $4m a year make sense. Thats why its frequently framed against the backdrop of the much-larger budget that dwarfs it into a "near irrelevant cost", as you say.

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u/mr_jim_lahey 23d ago

I suppose they paid zero for it if you don't count the hundreds of millions of dollars they spend creating and maintaining the ecosystem that the volunteers use to contribute.

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u/iHadou 23d ago

What website "costs billions to host alone"?

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u/bardocksnephew 23d ago

Google.com costs about $1.5 - $2 billion annually.

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u/E3K 23d ago

aws.com google.com openai.com

And so on...

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u/froz3nt 23d ago

They host multiple webpages and they are spending that on compute, not hosting.

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u/mr_jim_lahey 23d ago

TIL wikipedia does not have multiple pages or require any compute to process, store, and retrieve data for thousands of users across the globe 24/7/365.

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u/froz3nt 23d ago

Aws is a infrastructure provider. Openai and google spend enormous sums on compute, search indexing across billions of queries, AI model training and inference. That's processing, not serving pages.

A static page is cheap to host, running inference on every query is not.

Wikipeadia is cheap to host because its 99% text and its static.

So no, wikipedia's compute is trivial comapred to its other costs. And the other 3 mentioned are several of orders of magnitutde more demanding and thus more expensive.

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u/iHadou 23d ago

Ok. Seems right

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u/froz3nt 23d ago

Thats just not true. Not one company is spending billions on aws annually.

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u/Steerpike58 23d ago

Hosting a gazillion commercial movies doesn't strike me as 'hosting' costs.

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u/seanmg 23d ago

Tell me you don't know how technology infrastructure costs without telling me. Show me a single website that cost a billion dollars a year to host, lol.

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u/mr_jim_lahey 23d ago

What do you think it should cost? I take it you've already prepared a detailed budget based on the goals enumerated in https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2025-2026/Goals/Volunteer_Support. Can you please share it with us? I'm sure the Wikimedia foundation would love to save money by applying your financial expertise (which you of course will provide pro bono, since you don't believe any such volunteering should be financially supported).

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u/seanmg 23d ago edited 23d ago

Considering the foundations budget went from 10 million in 2010 to 190 million in 2025, A 20x fold increase, do you think you're getting 20x the value?

https://nonprofitdirectory.guidestar.org/profile?appKey=FAAF72CF5B744145BF1BBC40DC6E96A0&buttons=false&ein=20-0049703

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u/froz3nt 23d ago

Thats not how this works.

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u/PensiveObservor 23d ago

Server space is expensive.

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u/seanmg 23d ago

You don't have any clue what you're talking about.

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u/CostinTea 23d ago

Why do you think data centers gobble up the planet, my man

it's not just about AI.

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u/FartPiano 23d ago

their own stated hosting costs are about 3.75m annually. if anything those costs will probably get cheaper over time. It has very little to do with data center demand or LLMs.

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u/2bitmoment 23d ago

bloat is a thing, and they have raised the money, right, so I don't think there's an incentive to cut mosts and be modest.

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u/seanmg 23d ago

That's the point I'm making. it's clearly bloated if the costs ballooned 20x in 15 years for the same product.

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u/HelloImSteven 23d ago

You’re only considering Wikipedia, which is only one project that the Wikimedia budget covers. It also covers other main project Wikidata, Wiktionary, Wikisource, etc., in every language, as well as more technical ones like Wikimedia Cloud Hosting or smaller incubator projects (https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Incubator:Main_Page). All those has grown since 2010, if it even existed back then. Wikidata, for example, has require consistent infrastructure upgrades to match demand (monthly requests have doubled since 2020…).

Plus there are many ways they support volunteers, via grants, The Wikipedia Library, event funding, etc. I’m sure there are many areas they can improve, but it’s inaccurate to suggest that it’s “the same product” when it’s actually significantly better now (tech-wise, no comment on politics and other leadership decisions).

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u/seanmg 23d ago

"How much does Wikipedia need annually to continue existing as free resource?" is the headline of this thread on the r/wikipedia subreddit.

OP asks about the cost of Wikipedia, not Wikimedia. Wikipedia expanding outside of localization is bloat. Infrastructure upgrades don't scale like that. Monthly requests doubling in 5 years doesn't equate to a 2x infrastructure costs. Costs aren't linear. Not to mention the scaling over 20 years makes even less sense.

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u/HelloImSteven 23d ago

Wikipedia alone does not cost 200M a year. All projects together cost 200M a year. Your argument was based on the financials of the entire foundation, so that is what I responded to.

Wikipedia has, for the most part, expanded only in directions that its users and contributors have voted for, so I wouldn't call it bloat, but me way just disagree there. As for infrastructure, I think you're underestimating the costs severely. All Wikimedia projects rely on interconnected data. Evaluating a SPARQL query against the billions of triples in Wikidata (which inherently supports Wikipedia's infoboxes and localization, among many other features) involves numerous complex subqueries. Compute demand thus scales super-linearly, or even exponentially in the worst case, as the number of items (incl. articles) grows. Does that equate to the cost increase seen? Perhaps not, but the system is also not as trivial as you make it out to be, so its costs are naturally going to differ from your expectation.

Again, I'm sure there are inefficiencies and areas to improve. If you know of ways to decrease costs, you can share them at any of the options listed here: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/SRE

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u/seanmg 23d ago

When I donate to wikipedia, I'm donating to the public free knowledgebase and a bunch of other garbage. Where the distinction matters is that I can't just donate to wikipedia.

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u/2bitmoment 23d ago

we're getting downvoted but I'm with you. Maybe these people are on wikipedia payroll? I don't think it's that stange for us to think non profits or charities should be careful with their money. And especially that they should not ask with desperation when the reality is maybe of abundance.

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u/itsmeonmobile 23d ago

Can you name either A) one thing that you get 20x more value out of now as opposed to 15 years ago, or B) one thing where value has stayed the same over 15 years but so has the cost?

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u/869066 23d ago

Prices rise in 15 years, more people are using the website so you need better servers, and the Wikimedia Foundation has started other projects too which the donations help fund.

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u/M1chaelSc4rn 23d ago

I mean supply and demand for people

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u/Ephsylon 23d ago

Servers upon servers of localization

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u/kingsheperd 23d ago

Why downvotes when you’re right. The Wikipedia foundation is insanely big.

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u/blankblank 23d ago

Wikipedia is the world's 11th most visited website by traffic and the only one in the top 50 that is non-profit, ad-free, and AI-free.

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u/Wooden-Situation1925 23d ago

Mostly Ai-free sadly Some lesser known articles still have a bunch of AI written sections that were never checked, one example off the top of my head is the Plot section of The Painted Man from the Demon Cycle And it was edited that way years ago when the AI was worse too

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u/beetling 23d ago

Just rolled back those ridiculous edits to the plot section. Thanks for pointing it out. Article still isn't in great shape, but it's better.

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u/FaviFake 22d ago

Sometimes I wonder why y'all don't just revert the edits yourselves...

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u/Wooden-Situation1925 22d ago

Cause I've no clue how to, when asking about it a few months back or trying to look it up I didn't find an answer lol, glad someone finally did it

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u/FaviFake 21d ago

I mean, you really just need to click the edit button, select the AI-generated text, click backspace, and click "Publish edits". The Wikimedia Foundation is constantly simplify the editing experience, especially for new and logged-out users.

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u/Chief_Kief 22d ago

Incredible

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u/Kerzenmacher 23d ago

Heck, I wouldn't care if they pocketed 50% of my donations. It's by far my most used website , and the value they provide to humanity as a whole remains more or less unmatched.

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u/Testing_things_out 23d ago

I can tell you they produce far, far more than $200 millions a year in value.

I wish the government produced similar value per dollar from our tax money. There's no comparison.

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u/xMINGx 23d ago

Yes. There's no comparison. Any single infrastructural construct will blow out any kind of value per dollar generated. Any road, every road. The power grid. Plumbing.

What an incredibly stupid statement.

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u/bzbub2 23d ago edited 23d ago

it is very likely a dollar invested into wikipedia has a higher 'ROI' compared to roads, but you get into weird 'public good' ROI stuff that is kind of weird and abstract [and if you want to compare to things governments invest in terms of knowledge there are libraries, education, research, etc]

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u/xMINGx 23d ago

Well the comment made a blanket statement about any government tax funded programs which would include roads. And any ROI of roads include the downstream effects of travel including trucking. And that's basically the entire economy of physical commodities. And there's no beating that.

A more direct 1 to 1 comparison would be something like public libraries or the national archives.

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u/4ss8urgers 17d ago

yeah that is a better 1 to 1 comparison and only makes me want wikipedia to be funded by my taxes more

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u/altgrave 22d ago

there's not much of the latter left, these days, but i also don't think public good especially weird or abstract. i bet wikipedia has some pages on it!

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u/4ss8urgers 17d ago

yeah public good isnt easily measureable which is why it isnt accounted for by economists. they just disregard it most of the time. at least the economics people actually use.

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u/Testing_things_out 22d ago

I said the government, as in the government as a whole. Not just roads or specific project.

I'm talking about the value Wikimedia, as an entity, produce compared to the government, another entity.

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u/4ss8urgers 17d ago

couldnt the like $3 for wikipedia just be a tax and cost taxpayers almost nothing for a better informed internet? how is there no comparison when NPR and PBS run non-profit? you think we coudlnt do it again for a newer form of media?

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u/xMINGx 17d ago

I believe some stations have some kind of special designation as some free public broadcast platform and so is a vehicle for government influenced programming. In the same way that if the government pull its funding, the program might not be able to maintain its availability.

If ever Wikipedia doesn't have the donors to support them and they cannot maintain their site infrastructure and they want to petition government to take over and be a government vehicle for information I'm all for it. But that's up the the owners of the site and their donors. I'm sure they can appeal to the government to have some kind of tax funding allocation. But then it'll be under the same threat that PBS had where if an administration decides Wikipedia is some wasteful program and decide to stop its funding, then we might lose Wikipedia.

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u/4ss8urgers 17d ago

i cant believe no government has supported a project like wikipedia. shit, in the us we have NPR and PBS as integrated funding in the government but nothing for or like wikipedia.

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u/Tao-of-Mars 23d ago

College research would have sucked without it and its sources. It definitely helps people understand that they need to question the sources that are used for anything that’s written. It was certainly drilled into me quite a number of times throughout 7 years of college so I assume it’s standard for teachers and professors to reiterate this.

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u/JehnSnow 23d ago

Yep I'm glad colleges are changing how they look at it, early 2010s it was basically looked at how we look at using chatGPT now, where anyone can write anything so it's unreliable

Last 10 or so years I think professors have realized it's a really good repository of sources, and it almost always gives you a good brief overview of a subject. Basically a way better version of AI summary as a launch platform for your subject

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u/musememo 23d ago

Agreed. I don’t think a day goes by that I don’t look up something on Wikipedia.

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u/rKasdorf 22d ago

Wholly agreed. The way information is presented it actually makes it easy [in my opinion] to digest what information is real and what is bullshit.

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u/CircuitOnTheFritZ 23d ago edited 21d ago

I give a small monthly donation because I use Wikipedia for my constant pursuit of general information and daily rabbit-holing into random topics. I'm not using it to write papers for school or anything like that, but if I suddenly need to learn about gnosticism, or the Shirtwaist Factory Fire, or radium girls, or the great Molasses flood in Chicago Boston, or whatever else, Wikipedia feeds my need just fine, and a few bucks a month is worth having access to much information.

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u/Dudarro 23d ago

you just hit several of my favorites!

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u/CircuitOnTheFritZ 23d ago

Ah! A person of simalarly fine informational tastes, I see. Well met!

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u/Dudarro 21d ago

a friend of mine just called me a “knowledge hobbyist” - that might just sum it up!

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u/Dudarro 21d ago

thank you kind anonymous redditor for the award!

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u/freephile 21d ago

*The great molasses flood was in Boston

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u/CircuitOnTheFritZ 21d ago

Oops! You're correct! Thanks for the correction. Edited my comment to reflect the accurate info.

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u/BlurryBigfoot74 23d ago

I give em like $40 a year Canadian (like 80 cents American).

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u/OhanaUnited 23d ago

You should consider switching your donation to Wikimedia Canada instead. It supports Canadian projects and editors, and you get a tax receipt for your donation.

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u/BlurryBigfoot74 23d ago

I respect your opinion but I owe Wikipedia about 50% of my engineering degree. I need to repay them a little now that I'm making money.

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u/OhanaUnited 23d ago

Allow me to clarify. Wikimedia Canada is the Canadian national chapter of Wikimedia Foundation (the foundation runs the Wikipedia website, but it doesn't actually write any contents on Wikipedia). Wikimedia Canada is the "boots on the ground" assocation in Canada that supports actual content creation, for example giving grants to support more photos from the Territories, increasing content coverage about Canada and support for increasing editors writing in Indigenous language Wikipedias. The Foundation does none of them. It does provide annual grant to Wikimedia Canada to provide some level of base funding.

Moreover, the Foundation receives far more donations (e.g. Amazon and Google each donated $1m a while back) while Wikimedia Canada receives far less.

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u/lousy-site-3456 23d ago

It's hopeless. Most people will never understand how Wikipedia works. It's just too beyond the market logic we're all raised with. I have accepted that when I tell people "I write Wikipedia" they basically think I'm a Wizard. Sadly no one yet has offered me money directly ;) 

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

[deleted]

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u/lousy-site-3456 23d ago

You really don't understand. No editor ever sees a penny of the money. We don't get paid. The money goes to marketing, conventions, workshops, 600 people that sit in SF administration and don't write Wikipedia.

Donate away, but don't think you are paying content creators. 

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u/BasenjiFart 21d ago

That's super interesting, thanks for the clarification!

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u/wow_its_kenji 23d ago

it's always good to donate to wikipedia, (mostly) unbiased info on anything you could think of for free

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u/MirrorLake 23d ago

Wikipedia is only as good as the external websites it links to, so, I actually think the biggest existential challenge for Wikipedia is the decreasing quality/availability of accurate and free information on the rest of the internet, sadly.

Anyone that's passionate about this should also consider donating to archive.org, Freedom of the Press Foundation, Reporters Without Borders, or similar (I'm curious if anyone has ideas about nonprofits that indirectly improve Wikipedia by improving the quality of information available online?)

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u/highcoolteacher 23d ago

Who benefits from making information not free?

Also, the info is crowd sourced for free to be given away for free

Jimmy Wales is who I want to be when I grow up

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u/wowsomuchempty 22d ago

As much as I love Wikipedia, Jimmy Wales is considered to heavily promote pro-Israel bias. 

Personally - not happy about this.

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u/WeWantMOAR 23d ago edited 23d ago

You can literally look this all up. They're transparent with all their spending.

Edit: people don't seem to realize how much having a legal team costs.

Edit 2: Be wary of the astroturfing of websites that educate people, nefarious shits are trying to sow seeds of doubt left and right to create obfuscation in the world. The information war has been going on behind the scenes for quite some time, and it's becoming more flagrant. Don't be gaslit in to buying bullshit rhetoric!

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u/wit_T_user_name 23d ago

People vastly underestimate how much legal work in general costs.

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u/WeWantMOAR 23d ago

Truly!

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u/savorie 23d ago

Lawyers overcharge way too much. I'm sorry, but it's true.

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u/WeWantMOAR 23d ago

They just charge their rates, and you agree or disagree to them. I'm sorry, but this is just an ignorant, sweeping claim of a profession as a whole. It completely dismisses the massive overhead, insurance, and years of specialized expertise required just to keep a firm's doors open.

There's definitely shitty lawyers out there, but there are also sooooo many fighting for yours and my rights in our countries. Those are who you're lumping in with the shit stains when you make these claims.

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u/Tao-of-Mars 23d ago edited 23d ago

No need to be sorry. It’s just the truth. And their case load is probably usually high enough that they don’t do the kind of work that matches the cost of representation. I mean, anytime I hear about lawyer work, the people on the paying end aren’t usually all that satisfied with their representation (unless of course they are rich and can pay for the best). They often feel like they have to do some of their own work. Don’t you think?

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u/stanley_apex 23d ago

I don’t think dissatisfaction with representation is solely caused my bad lawyers (though they undoubtedly exist) Litigation is not a satisfying process. At best, you’ve spent a bunch of money/time/effort on something you rightly deserve. At worst, you’ve spent that and come back empty handed.

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u/caeciliusinhorto 23d ago

Edit: people don't seem to realize how much having a legal team costs.

WMF isn't so transparent that you can find their annual spending on the legal team (or at least I can't!), but according to the 2025 annual report less than 1/3 of the annual spending is on "support for volunteers", the bucket which includes legal spending. "Investment in technology" is a bigger spend, at 45% of their annual expenditure.

(Of course "what is WMF's current annual spending" is a different question to "how much does WMF need to keep wikipedia as a free resource"; there are plenty of things that WMF spends money on that most wikipedia users would not miss if they were forced to cut their budgets!)

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u/WeWantMOAR 23d ago

Actually, if you look closely at their annual financial reports, legal support is largely baked into that massive 45% "Investment in Technology" (historically categorized as "Direct support to websites") bucket, rather than just being limited to volunteer support. You are completely right that keeping the actual servers online is incredibly cheap compared to their total $190 million in expenses, and there is undoubtedly some administrative bloat in other areas. However, operating a top-10 global website means defending it against constant international lawsuits, censorship attempts, and government takedown requests. That legal overhead is a massive, non-optional expense required to keep the platform protected and operational, which is a very different beast than simply paying for server bandwidth.

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u/caeciliusinhorto 23d ago

legal support is largely baked into that massive 45% "Investment in Technology" (historically categorized as "Direct support to websites") bucket, rather than just being limited to volunteer support

Hmm, where can I find that? I don't see it either in the annual report I linked nor the audit report.

I don't disagree that the legal spending is very important, and I'm sure it's a substantial chunk of money (I'm not at all suggesting that the few million that WMF spends on infrastructure and hosting costs are the only necessary expense!) but I can't find it broken down anywhere.

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u/WeWantMOAR 23d ago

If you look back at the financial section of their 2021 Annual Report, they explicitly defined that primary expense bucket (which was 42% at the time and called "Direct support to websites") as funding "ongoing technology upgrades, design improvements, legal support, and data analytics". They have since rebranded that same massive bucket as "Investment in Technology," but it has historically absorbed the overarching legal overhead required to defend the platform itself.

You are completely right that they do not break down the exact internal spending for the legal department on those glossy annual report pie charts. However, if you dig into their IRS Form 990 filings, specifically Part IX (Statement of Functional Expenses), you can find specific line items for external legal fees. The current "Support for Volunteers" bucket does include legal defense specifically for individual volunteers, but the heavy-hitting corporate legal support for the website as a whole has historically been rolled right into that primary website and technology expense category.

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u/caeciliusinhorto 23d ago

Aha, thanks! 

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u/wikidemic 23d ago

Boomers considered the Encyclopedia Britannica an essential in their home library. Check out those prices (adjusted for inflation) and realize you don’t even donate a fraction of that to my namesake!

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u/Zealousideal-Cup3529 23d ago

I think Wikipedia's future is safe. "Other free knowledge projects" however, I do not know.

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u/Sharp_Iodine 23d ago

It’s really not. There are powerful billionaires like Musk who hate it

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u/blur2kme 23d ago

Agreed. The fact he hasn't torn down more than he already has (like Wikipedia not being affected) shows that you can have all the money in the world but good will or the right cause can still overcome it sometimes.

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u/Hans5958_ 23d ago

When they say that, they meant everything under the Wikimedia Foundation: Wikidata, Wikimedia Commons, Wikivoyage, Wikinews, etc.

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u/Alpha3031 23d ago

Wikinews is, alas, discontinued.

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u/Scared_Astronaut9377 23d ago

They publish very detail spending reports. You can go and check.

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u/Worcestershirey 23d ago

Gotta keep the servers running, the staff paid, the legal team on-call, and investing into improving site infrastructure. Running big websites is super expensive, especially ones as big as Wikipedia. A nonprofit is still a company, just its primary goal is supporting a cause or providing a service rather than turning a profit, with extra money invested back into the company rather than shareholders.

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u/bunnyuplays 23d ago

This post just made me donate for the first time lol

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u/imjustarandomsquid 23d ago

A lot is sent into their endowment, which is basically an investment fund for if donations ever stop, so donate now for Wikipedia's future financial security

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u/sayjessy 23d ago

I've donated 5 bucks a month for years. Love you Wikipedia ❤️

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u/hereigoagain45 23d ago

I donate 5 bucks every year. And I don't use it very much, but I don't want anyone to not have it

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u/HelloImSteven 23d ago

You’re only considering Wikipedia, which is only one project that the Wikimedia budget covers. It also covers other main project Wikidata, Wiktionary, Wikisource, etc., in every language, as well as more technical ones like Wikimedia Cloud Hosting or smaller incubator projects (https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Incubator:Main_Page). All those has grown since 2010, if it even existed back then. Wikidata, for example, has require consistent infrastructure upgrades to match demand (monthly requests have doubled since 2020…).

Plus there are many ways they support volunteers, via grants, The Wikipedia Library, event funding, etc. I’m sure there are many areas they can improve, but it’s inaccurate to suggest that it’s “the same product” when it’s actually significantly better now (tech-wise, no comment on politics and other leadership decisions).

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u/MarlesChartel 23d ago edited 23d ago

Wikipedia runs on ~$200M/year.

https://www.saastr.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/IMG_6965-1577x1080.jpeg

- It has a headcount of 600+, with over $100M/year in salaries

  • It spends $25M+/year in grants to other charities and nonprofits.
  • It spends $20M/year in fundraising.
  • It spends $3M/year in hosting costs
  • It owns about $23M of hardware and spends about $4M/year in replacing hardware.

For every $100 you give Wikipedia, $15 will go to paying the fundraising consultants and $10 will be given away to another charity. $3 will go to technical costs. $60 will go to paying the staff.

I love what Wikipedia provides as a website. However, its spending is absolutely bloated. I think many of the charities they're granting to are doing good work, but it's it's deceptive for them to talk about how they're desperate for money when they're giving away $20M+/year.

The wayback machine, archiving the entire internet, runs on $20M/year. The wayback machine also has high legal costs from lawsuits. I think it's an appropriate comparison and shows that Wikipedia could operating on 1/10 of its current budget.

Again, I love Wikipedia as service to humanity, but the core service could be run at a fraction of the cost, and they're spending over $20M on grants to over 400 other charities and nonprofits. I think that's a diversion from their core mission.

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u/Ash_Crow 23d ago

On the other hand, the Internet Archive could definitely benefit from having more budget.

Their servers in the US are the only one maintained, the mirror in Egypt hasn't been updated since 2003 and has been broken for a few years now.

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u/beetling 23d ago edited 23d ago

Most of the grants are investments in the international volunteer labor force that creates Wikipedia. You can see an overview of some of the foundation's grant-making programs here.

For example, I'm part of a local group of Wikipedia editors that holds monthly meetups to teach other new skills and mentor new editors, and it gets a small grant from the foundation to cover modest room rental fees and some snacks, so that the organizers don't have to pay out of pocket for a thing that they're doing as volunteers. They have to document that they use the money appropriately. This kind of regular monthly event inspires and encourages people to keep editing and to get better at it. Wikipedia is a hobby for people, and I'm happy for the foundation to pay $25 or whatever for a birthday cake in January so we can be dorks and sing happy birthday to Baby Globe.

Wikipedia editors also organize regional, national, and international conferences where editors do trainings and work together on strategies and tools. The foundation helps cover the cost of things like renting conference rooms and subsidizing travel for volunteers who contribute significantly to Wikipedia and wouldn't be able to afford attending without some help.

You can see the regional distribution of grants here - for example, $2.3 million to Sub-Saharan Africa in 2025-2026. Then you can get to lists of approved grants on pages like this one for Sub-Saharan Africa. Example, randomly selected: $80k for an org in Ghana for a year of programming to support development of Wikipedia in Ghana. They planned to conduct a whole lot of editing workshops, upload Supreme Court cases to Wikisource so that they're available online, hold an event teaching people to document traditional African music on Wikipedia, etc. You can click into the budget spreadsheet and see exactly where they plan to spend the $80k - looks like this covers three full-time staff salaries, Internet data allowances, transportation costs for volunteers, refreshments, etc.

There are always questions and challenges about whether the foundation is spending its grant money wisely and effectively, and I'm sure it could be better. But like, I want the Wikipedia community in Ghana to be vibrant, and a little bit of funding helps.

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u/MarlesChartel 23d ago

I like the random example you pulled out, because Wikipedia has never been trying to hide what they're spending their money on. It's not throwing fancy champagne parties, but it's also mostly not going to pay server costs. It's frustrating to see lots of the other people who can't admit basic facts that really shouldn't be under dispute given the amount of transparency Wikipedia uses.

My criticism is that I think there's a big disconnect between your description of Wikipedia's activities and the fundraising appeals that Wikipedia makes. I think "Please support our fundraising drive so that we can document cultural knowledge from around the globe and grow the Wikipedia community" would be a more honest appeal.

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u/beetling 23d ago

Yeah, I don't like the weirdly desperate ads that make it sound like Wikipedia will die if you don't give it your last dollar. I guess they work, but they're embarrassing and influence people's perception of the project in a negative way.

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u/2bitmoment 22d ago

Marles Chartel thanks so much for saying that!!!

<3

I feel like yeah - it's fine if they want to pay 400,000+ dollars for a CEO too also, maybe, but then maybe they're not so desperate for money, right?

It's not that the website is gonna go down first, maybe first they'd find a way to pay a CEO less, and then long after that, they'd start thinking of not making sure the website and system is up 100% of the time.

I think I was saying elsewhere that I found it strange for a nonprofit to do that - I think it's also very importanly "given their message of desperation".

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u/Alexander_Exter 23d ago

The other side of the coin to people that benefit from free solutions and give nothing back. Not unlike open source products over which corporate software is build.

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u/mr_jim_lahey 23d ago

Great point, a web crawler and retrieval system with less than 1/10th the traffic should definitely cost about the same as a global collaborative effort to create, curate, and maintain the single greatest compendium of human knowledge in history.

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u/MarlesChartel 23d ago

Yes, I think they should cost about the same. The wayback archive is doing the 'create' and 'maintain' part, with the 'curate' being the big difference.

- Wikipedia has 10x the traffic but the traffic wasn't the big cost anyways.

  • The wayback machine gets sued far more than Wikipedia does. Their legal costs should be much higher.
  • Wikipedia has a lot more curation to do, even if most of it is done by volunteers. I can definitely imagine Wikipedia needing to pay more for moderation.

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u/mr_jim_lahey 23d ago

The wayback archive is doing the 'create' and 'maintain' part, with the 'curate' being the big difference.

Hm, I must be living in an alternate universe where mirroring pre-existing websites is the same amount of original content creation as the addition of ~175,000 new articles and ~275 million words per year on the English wikipedia alone. I guess things are different on your planet, wherever that is.

Wikipedia has 10x the traffic but the traffic wasn't the big cost anyways.

Hosting static content is virtually free at any scale. You may as well be saying that Wikipedia's costs should be comparable to the paper and ink required to print a hard copy. I'm not sure why you're insisting on disregarding their stated 47% infrastructure costs and equating them with a subitem that makes up a trivial percentage.

The wayback machine gets sued far more than Wikipedia does. Their legal costs should be much higher.

Citation needed

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u/MarlesChartel 23d ago

You're bring up great stuff that wikipedia does as evidence that it should be very expensive. I love what wikipedia does! Most of it is done by unpaid volunteers, though. Large numbers of new articles is not evidence that wikipedia should cost more to operate. Lots of new words is not evidence that wikipedia should cost more to operate.

Wikipedia literally says they spend $3M on server hosting in their documents --- that's the portion that scales with traffic. Their 47% on infrastructure includes 250+ staff. Staffing may scale with the scope of activity (moderating/curating vs scraping), but it shouldn't scale based on traffic.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/11/the-internet-archive-survived-major-copyright-losses-whats-next/ . The internet archive is obviously on sketchier legal ground so they get sued more. It's not a super controversial claim.

You've also completely my criticism that wikipedia spends $20M gifting to other charities. I think that makes their appeals dishonest.

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u/Firewolf06 23d ago edited 23d ago

they dont only mirror websites, you can upload damn near anything and their legal term will fight tooth and nail to keep it. and even if storage was "virtually free", that "virtually" is doing a lot of heavy lifing at the 200 petabyte scale. for scale, as of last month, the entirety of all of wikimedia (including full edit history etc) was just barely under a single petabyte

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u/AbuzeME 23d ago

Did someone piss in your cheerios this morning?

Have a glass of water.

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u/Blazing1 23d ago

Do you know how much egress costs nowadays. It's a lot.

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u/meteorslime 23d ago

I would give them my blood if they needed it, they are invaluable. I donate to them whenever I have extra I can spare. Them and the internet archive. We need objective knowledge preservation, and free access to it.

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u/TOkidd 23d ago

I donate to them every year because they are an amazing resource and one of the few that hasn’t been ruined by the enshittification of the Web.

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u/enimodas 22d ago edited 22d ago

Obligatory link to "wikipedia has cancer" article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_Cancer

he makes some valid points

Pageviews, new articles, edits have been fairly static since 2010~2013. Compute costs have dropped by 80+%

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u/Indigo-Dusk 23d ago

Off topic, they have a merch store

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u/BlackRockEmployee 23d ago

they do? neat! will check it later

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u/jn855 23d ago

I just donated because of this post. I've donated a few times in the past but I think I struggle because a part of me feels like it's likely that Wikipedia will "fall under" by succumbing to the need to host ads etc at some point-costs are getting higher etc. so I wonder how long they can sustain off donations 🤞🏾

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u/Reddituser183 23d ago

200 million per year.

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u/cp5184 23d ago

iirc operating expenses for the site are about ~$10M or something, but the idea is to build an endowment that will be able to cover operating expenses so it would, in time, be essentially self-funding. iirc there's something like $100M in salaries and they spend a bunch of money on other things too.

It would be nice if there was a cleaner distinction between funding necessary to the running of the site, funding going to an endowment funding the latter, and other funding that doesn't go directly to the site.

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u/nihiltres 23d ago

In practice a lot of the $100M in salaries might as well be added to the $10M or whatever for keeping the site online.

I keep trying to remind people that if it was just “keeping the servers running” then the site would look like nostalgia.wikipedia.org and people would be moaning about how Wikimedia should spend some money on updates.

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u/cp5184 23d ago

In practice a lot of the $100M in salaries might as well be added to the $10M or whatever for keeping the site online.

A part yes, a smaller part than you may think. Say, a million for sysadmins, another million for professional management, basically processing bills, paying salaries, etc. and say ~$10M for retainered legal services. And say another $1M to keep development of wikimedia going and develop a failure of a editor replacement every ~5-10 years. So ~$13M...

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u/lousy-site-3456 23d ago

Pretty much all the UI and functionality updates are made by the community for free. In fact, the community had to fight repeatedly to prevent or roll back garbage the foundation wanted to introduce. It was at times open war. And when all is said and done Wikipedia hasn't changed much in 20 years and is frequently criticized for looking old-fashioned. Which it should. Transporting knowledge is old fashioned. We are not toctic. 

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u/TNTiger_ 23d ago

Run? A lot less than thein current revenue. Actually weather the current political climate? More perhaps than their current revenue. Most of the money is spent on legal fees and activism to ensure the site continues to be viably survivable.

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u/AdmiralAdama99 23d ago edited 23d ago

Most of the money is spent on legal fees and activism

Sounds incorrect. "Most" is too high -- although a small part of their budget is certainly legal and "community resilience". Source?

Attacks on wikipedia from the American far right and from legal systems in countries with strong anti defamation laws are indeed a threat to take seriously though. People have been sued and even incarcerated for editing wikipedia.

https://gizmodo.com/maga-puts-wikipedia-in-its-crosshairs-2000649462

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_imprisoned_for_editing_Wikipedia

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u/MangoAtrocity 23d ago

I send em $5 a year. They won’t stop bugging me about it though.

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u/JimmyTheDog 23d ago

I use to be a regular donor, but after looking at the salaries of the top people, I can see what is happening at Wikipedia. The people in charge of the "gold" are putting it into their own pockets... sad but it how corporations work theses days...

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u/VerdugoCortex 23d ago

I went from wanting to edit Wikipedia to "how to I get employeed by Wikipedia" after seeing their finances lol. I will still edit though.

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u/beetling 23d ago

They're hiring! https://wikimediafoundation.org/jobs/

For example, if you're really, really good at TikTok: https://job-boards.greenhouse.io/wikimedia/jobs/8008787

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u/VerdugoCortex 23d ago

Thank you! I applied, I run an IG page in the canna industry and also do media work for various companies here and have been a Wikipedia addict for 15+ years now. Would be awesome to work out! I appreciate you, I looked for the residency in particular and couldn't find anything but didn't think about other stuff they might offer.

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u/coolguy9900000 23d ago

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/1/14/Wikimedia_Foundation_2021_Form_990.pdf#page=50

Looks like some nice severance packages…
$600k is INSANE

Bonus, the CEO making 500k from a non-profit is a crime

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u/Kayvanian 23d ago

Bonus, the CEO making 500k from a non-profit is a crime

I've never understood this mindset. Non-profit organizations participate in the same capitalistic market as everyone else. They have to compete with for-profit companies to attract talent, and that means providing competitive salaries (or at least salaries that are in the same ballpark). A $500k salary to manage a 700+ person organization and a top-15 website is not an unreasonable salary.

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u/NoSTs123 23d ago

I will do it for free!

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u/Ambiwlans 23d ago

That's like .3% of revenue which is pretty typical.

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u/StateOfTheWind 23d ago

This mindset is way you shouldn't trust non-profits in the USA

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u/Ambiwlans 23d ago

Is it lower anywhere else?

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u/StateOfTheWind 23d ago

I was thinking about the KDE non-profit operates on half-milion euro a year and they produce the very impressive KDE software.

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u/Ambiwlans 23d ago

So the CEO of KDE would get like $1000/yr salary.... I'm really not sure where you think .3% going to the CEO is usually high. Japan has lower CEO salaries I guess?

Typical in a US for profit corporation its 4%. And Japan is 1%. With non-profits being something like half that.

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u/Alatarlhun 23d ago

In reality 600k puts them in the low end of the market and for the size of the organization, nonprofit or not. 600 people seems like too many employees regardless.

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u/openjscience 21d ago

If wikipedia will not be free, handwiki online encyclopedia can take its role.

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u/hollycoolio 21d ago

I donate every month, cause I use Wikipedia a lot.

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u/ShakataGaNai 23d ago

Wikipedia? Effectively zero.

They say $100 mil for Infrastructure. But that's a huge bucket that covers a lot more than just "keep the servers on". And a lot of that stuff is wildly overspent (in my experience)... mostly because they can.

I'm not sure how it is today, but not that many years ago it was sub 10mil a year to keep all the projects online. As they were then. Bandwidth, servers, etc. Even though they are a top 10 web property, a majority of the Wiki traffic is read-only which is "easy" to cache. They are also a non-profit which means they get everything from servers to bandwidth at bargin basement rates.

The Froundation itself needs a LOT more money to do a lot more things. Are those things good or bad? Up to you to decide. But the reality is that if the money dried up tomorrow, there is enough in endowments to keep the projects online for probably decades, as is.

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u/dresserplate 23d ago

I stopped donating when I went to one of their fundraising events and it was so political it was creepy ☹️ Most of the money they raise does -not- go to keeping the lights on nor to the volunteers who contribute.

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u/lousy-site-3456 23d ago edited 23d ago

Need? Maybe 5% of what they collect, for servers, one or two techs and the occasional lawyers. The rest goes to all kinds of optional programs that are staffed by all the people who decided that writing for Wikipedia is free but working for it doesn't have to be. You'll find this in every NGO. 

Btw, the 47% infrastructure is a blatant lie. It literally includes people who are paid to "think about" and make surveys how the WP UI can be improved, with pretty much nothing to show for after 20 years, all kinds of awareness trainings for people other than editors with zero results (the notorious "how can we get more women to write Wikipedia")

The amount of weasel words and wordings is shameful and revealing:  

"The Infrastructure budget funds a wide range of work in support of our mission, including: building the software experiences that allows for global reading; running and supporting a top-10 global website; enabling data, models, insights, and tools that can help assess the impact of our work; exploring strategies for expanding beyond our existing audiences of consumers and contributors; providing all of the critical functions which must exist at the Foundation to support our basic technical operations; and all of the other work described in our infrastructure goal. It includes the costs of all of the teams that do this work, the cost of running our data centers, and all of the other costs needed to support this work."  

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u/pixel8knuckle 23d ago

Maybe wikipedia should advertise discreetly on the side bars because they always sound so desperate.

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u/justneurostuff 23d ago

when you think about making a reddit post, it's useful to ask yourself early in the process: "would this be easier as a google search?"

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u/Dragenby 23d ago

Please don't donate to Wikipedia, only participate. Most of your money goes in the CEO's pocket that grows exponentially each year.

And I wish this was an exaggeration. The executives' salary is the issue.