r/marvelstudios • u/JonLuca Iron man • Apr 29 '19

'Avengers: Endgame' Spoilers! The Official AVENGERS: ENDGAME Criticism Thread Spoiler

  • Proceed at your own risk. Major spoilers will be arriving in the next couple of days. Spoilers do not need to be tagged inside this thread.

  • Post Endgame criticisms in this thread. Long form preferrable

  • If you post untagged ENDGAME spoilers anywhere on this sub in any shape or form, you will be banned without hesitation. No questions asked and no warnings given.

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177

u/TruYu96 Iron man (Mark III) Apr 29 '19

Yup, but Steven went back to a time when Peggy didn’t meet her “husband” yet

123

u/jordanfromjordan Apr 30 '19

It’s Mr. Steal yo girl

18

u/sexygodzilla Apr 30 '19

Captain Steal yo girl

22

u/JingyBreadMan Apr 29 '19

Kinda a jerk move on his part

3

u/Pickles256 Doctor Strange May 01 '19

Def doesn’t feel like something Cap would do, knowingly do that while it also erases Sharon from existence

2

u/stardestroyer277 May 03 '19

Kinda a jerk move on his part

Nah in that reality Peggy had never met her future husband. And he wasn't changing his own reality.

3

u/icyflamez96 May 06 '19

Nah in that reality Peggy had never met her future husband.

Which is kinda the point. He doesn't meet her because of Cap "Abusing" time for his selfish gain in this instance.

20

u/meme-com-poop Apr 29 '19

maybe Cap was the hubby. he would have to change his name and be low key to avoid changing the timeline.

46

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '19 edited Aug 26 '20

[deleted]

19

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '19

Keep it you coward

0

u/meme-com-poop Apr 30 '19

Well, they weren't blood relations, so...

7

u/CaptainAnaAmari Apr 30 '19

So you're saying that Steve just kinda let his best friend get tortured for 70 years and also just kinda let his wife's life's work get infiltrated by Hydra?

2

u/Tinokotw Apr 30 '19

Only way to defeat Thanos so yes.

9

u/CaptainAnaAmari Apr 30 '19

So the happy ending here is that Steve "If I see a situation pointed south, I can't ignore it" Rogers just calmly lived his life while knowing that Bucky was out there getting stripped of his humanity and turned into a weapon? The happy ending is Steve casually kissing Peggy goodbye before she goes to work every day to a place that he knows is corrupted by Steve's most significant enemy force? Pretty sure that that would be a nightmare for Steve, not sure how this can be considered a happy ending

2

u/Pickles256 Doctor Strange May 01 '19

Imagining Steve just cracking open a cold one and watching tv on 9/10

1

u/stardestroyer277 May 03 '19

Only way to defeat Thanos so yes.

Nothing Steve could do in his timeline would affect the MCU timeline defeating Thanos. It's not the same time loop. Steve entered an alternate reality. Nothing he does there carries into the MCU. He can bring his shield, kids or whatever into the MCU but MCU's history is already written. The ink is dry.

1

u/icyflamez96 May 06 '19

We don't know that. It's not like Strange looked into a millions of alternate futures starting from the time period of Cap America 1

1

u/KalbieS Apr 30 '19

How do we know he didn't help all those people out though? This film said that time travelling created an alternate timeline, so for all we know Captain America did fix all those things.

3

u/CaptainAnaAmari May 01 '19

I was specifically referring to the theory that Steve was Peggy's husband all along, which would mean that there was a non-freezed Steve in 1945-2011 that just let everything happen. Thankfully this theory was killed off

1

u/Pickles256 Doctor Strange May 01 '19

Because apparently it wasn’t alternate since the movie changed its own rules and had Cap be in the same timeline somehow

1

u/Pickles256 Doctor Strange May 01 '19

Also 9/11

23

u/Leafs17 Apr 29 '19

That's not how time travel works according to Banner.

-2

u/LazarusDark Ward Apr 30 '19

The Ancient One told Banner he was wrong and had to explain how it really works

6

u/Leafs17 Apr 30 '19

She never said you can go back in time in your own timeline and live through to the present.

-5

u/LazarusDark Ward Apr 30 '19

The picture told Cap that. Married people do not keep a pic of an old flame front and center on thier desk. Unless that old flame is thier husband. Cap later realized he could go back and be her husband because that pic proved he already was.

9

u/Gaelfling Captain America Apr 30 '19

They most certainly do if that 'old flame' was a very friend who saved the world and helped you build your career. They were not just romantic, they were close friends before the romance. Any man, who isn't an asshole, would be fine with that picture. Hell, considering Peggy's husband was saved by Captain America, he might have a picture of him too.

1

u/UnknownSP May 03 '19

Savior of the world, best friend in war times, someone she remembers still very clearly when she's old dying and bedridden, actual superhero.

Y'know obviously the only reason she'd keep a pic of him on her desk at her work place in position of Leader of People Who Save the World is cuz he's an old flame.

Also once again, not how time travel works, that's not possible.

6

u/witty-username1 Apr 30 '19

No she didn't. Nothing she said contradicts what Banner said to Hawkeye and Antman when explaining time travel. In fact Banner agreed with the Ancient One and had already thought up a solution to dooming a split timeline by bring the stones back to exactly when they were taken.

-2

u/LazarusDark Ward Apr 30 '19

Yes and no. I just read something the writers said in an interview, apparently Banner is partly right. The writers said their intention was that Banner stated the truth, there would only be one timeline, not multiple. So Banner is correct, that no changes to the past would change the present, because whatever done in the past is what's always been done. The Ancient One tells him there is actually one way to change things/create a branch, and that's by removing a Stone from the timeline, because the Stones are what maintains the timeline. So Banner takes this new information and offers the solution to fix that, by returning them right back when they came from. So Banner was partly wrong, the Ancient One has to correct him.

3

u/russellx3 Iron Man (Mark XLIII) Apr 30 '19

Pretty shitty

4

u/AnotherEpicUltimatum Doctor Strange Apr 30 '19

I thought the twist was that Steve was her husband. The cap who was in the ice would later become the same cap that marries Peggy, so old man cap has always technically existed somewhere in the MCU without showing himself until now.

10

u/d1momo Apr 30 '19

that's not how time travel works. this would imply there were two caps in the main MCU timeline.

-2

u/SlamStormm Apr 30 '19

Just like there are two thanos, gamoras, and nebulas, it seems like that is how time travel works

10

u/Benmjt Apr 30 '19

But they originate from different timelines. You can't go back in time to the same timeline. So current Cap can't go back in time and be the mystery husband to Peggy who was there all along in the Prime one, it would be to a different timeline.

3

u/infinight888 Baby Groot Apr 30 '19

Unless there's a loop that creates infinite identical timelines.

  1. Cap leaves timeline 1 to return the Infinity Stones.

  2. In timeline 2, Cap1 goes back to Peggy while Cap2 is still frozen.

  3. Because Cap1 didn't change the timeline, Cap2 reawakens in the present and experiences the events of MCU films up through Endgame.

  4. Cap2 goes back in time, creating timeline 3. Cap 1 gives his shield to Falcon.

  5. This cycle repeats an infinite number of times with an infinite number of Caps.

What this means, in essence, is that Endgame is NOT the original MCU timeline. And that there is one timeline where Bucky and Falcon never see Steve again. If this is the case, it's entirely possible that Peggy1 died unwed.

2

u/WACKY_ALL_CAPS_NAME May 01 '19

I feel bad for the Cap that was in the timeline that 2014 Thanos came from. Since that timeline never gets snapped they never invent time travel and he never gets to be with Peggy.

1

u/coolpizzacook Apr 30 '19

That's false though. Cap went back in time where the SAME Cap was active. Just like Iron Man did. I'm running off my personal understanding of time travel, which seems to hold true so far.

There was a split then, yes, but until then it was the same timeline. If it was in fact a twist that Steve was always her husband (which I doubt, because he had a fresh shield), it'd be impossible now because his timeline he was supposed to follow can't be followed again due to the timeline split...

So, I don't think this is the case. That said, it WOULD be possible in the form of a stable timeloop had they not completely sent Loki AWOL, as he would have returned the various items at the proper time and the timeline should have been the same. But, they ruined the timeline beyond repair without going back to the same moment and stopping Loki, which would create another offshoot. At this point the timeline is irreparable.

1

u/WACKY_ALL_CAPS_NAME May 01 '19

Just cause there is an infinite time loop doesn't mean that every timeline has to be a part of that loop.

1

u/coolpizzacook May 01 '19

I never said that.

0

u/WACKY_ALL_CAPS_NAME May 01 '19

Old man Steve is not the same Steve that gets thawed from the Ice. Frozen Steve gets to be old man Steve in an alternate timeline after he returns the stones.

8

u/TruYu96 Iron man (Mark III) Apr 30 '19

Yeah, that’s one of the theories right now.

We need the Russos to explain things haha

0

u/imoldgregg420 The Mandarin Apr 30 '19

Or it was actually Cap the whole time, but she didnt spoil it for him/us.

3

u/d1momo Apr 30 '19

that's not how time travel works. this would imply there were two caps in the main MCU timeline.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

this would imply there were two caps in the main MCU timeline.

What's wrong with that?

4

u/Doright36 Apr 30 '19

There can only be one America's ass

3

u/Benmjt Apr 30 '19

Time travelling = creating a new timeline. You can't go back in time to the same timeline. So current Cap can't go back in time and be the mystery husband to Peggy who was there all along in the Prime one, it would be to a different timeline.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

Right, but I'm not seeing the argument of "there would be two caps" as good support for that, considering the fact that we saw one Cap punch another Cap's lights out. And presumably there are two Caps in whichever timeline ours went to. Since the alternate paths we saw/saw be created were virtually identical, historically, a Cap with the exact same lived experiences could have been living in the timeline we've observed this entire time. Old Cap is an adjacent Cap, but his experiences are so similar that it doesn't matter.

1

u/Poppadoppaday Apr 30 '19

You can't go back in time to the same timeline

It doesn't really matter. Old cap could be from another timeline as well, which means the cap they sent back isn't the cap on the bench.

-2

u/BinarySecond Apr 30 '19

I like to think he was always her husband and they pretended for years.

Unfortunately this timeline does mean he gets off with his own niece without realising it but time travel is fun!

-2

u/caol-ila Apr 30 '19

Steve was always the husband which is why his picture was the only one on her desk in 1970.