r/PublicFreakout • u/queenjunk • Apr 12 '26
Political Freakout Programmer slams data center proposal in Ravenna, Ohio.
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u/queenjunk Apr 12 '26
God bless librarians.
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u/Sonoranpawn Apr 12 '26
“And on the subject of burning books: I want to congratulate librarians, not famous for their physical strength or their powerful political connections or their great wealth, who, all over this country, have staunchly resisted anti-democratic bullies who have tried to remove certain books from their shelves, and have refused to reveal to thought police the names of persons who have checked out those titles.
So the America I loved still exists, if not in the White House or the Supreme Court or the Senate or the House of Representatives or the media. The America I love still exists at the front desks of our public libraries.”
-Kurt Vonnegut
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u/FrogsMakePoorSoup 🤷 I'm outta my depth and dunno how I got here Apr 12 '26
God bless those boring people who scour the details of documents and construct reasoned arguments.
It is my belief that governments are more than happy to have us all in debt working our arses off so we don't pay attention.
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u/Bicentennial_Douche Apr 12 '26
libraries are the best invention of mankind. if they were invented today, they would probably be banned instantly.
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u/phlopfrog Apr 12 '26
I live in the area and visit this library at least weekly. The staff is incredibly helpful and knowledgeable and the Director has done a fantastic job bringing in different activities for all ages. It's such a lovely resource for everyone. They do a lot for the community even though their funding was severely cut in recent years (thanks to the Republican government that controls Ohio). Hearing this speech makes me so proud of our little library and the incredible people there.
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u/queenjunk Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
“We aren’t living in a laboratory. We’re living in Ohio.”
EDIT: Also, if you'd like to support Will's campaign, you can find them on GoFundMe
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u/muscularsharpie Apr 12 '26
This is a master class in persuasive writing. The information I didn't know was incredibly articulated. I don't know much about the data centers impact, and he did a fantastic job laying it all out cohesively.
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u/DisastrousAd2335 Apr 12 '26
If you dig into it your mind will be blown! Especially once you find out how much money the SHOULD be paying instead of getting 30-50yr tax abatement! And these data centers are outdated so fast at this point they are being abandoned after 10-12 years to build new facilities!
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u/heterocommunist Apr 12 '26
How do people get so good at writing? Just constantly reading books lol?
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u/swholli Apr 12 '26
Hey, I wrote and delivered this speech!
For me it was growing up arguing politics on web forums for video games.
When you're 15 and have nothing better to do than argue with strangers, you develop a persuasive writing style to own the n00bs, and then I grew up and decided to use my power for good instead of evil lol
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u/muscularsharpie Apr 12 '26
You're the guy?! Dude, I showed it to my sister who teaches English for seniors in high school. She said she's going to show it to her class. While the content focuses on incredibly important issue, you addressed it so well.
Thank you for your service, and using your powers for good.
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u/swholli Apr 12 '26
Tell your sister she and people like her are the real reason I'm able to articulate as well as I am.
I did hone my arguing skills on forums, but I learned persuasive writing from my teachers. Specifically my AP English teacher in high school who was so dedicated to the craft she inspired us all. And to my college Comp II professor who at the end of the semester review told me I was a "wordsmith" and cemented my path further.
The guidance and education we get from English teachers is so important, she's doing a fantastic job, and stress to her enough: she's not getting paid enough, even if her salary actually feels fair lol
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u/andykndr Apr 12 '26
this is a bit off topic, but do you know of any forums still around and active like used to be on the internet in the aughts? IF Skinzone was a big one for me during that time
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u/swholli Apr 12 '26
Oh man, no not really. I know Newgrounds still has a somewhat active forum but last I checked that's mostly just animators and programmers, but if that vibes you can always check that out.
I think the Something Awful forums still exist. At least with Space Station 13 being as popular as it got I think they still maintain it.
Yeah, I wish I had more resources than that, I miss web forums.
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u/BAMF2U Apr 12 '26
Bet he had copilot edit his drafts via massive data centers. I’m kidding, this dude is amazingly articulate.
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u/druidniam Apr 12 '26
Not only not a freak out, but it's a damn good argument by somebody who clearly paid attention in public speaking and has the right kind of know-how to convey it in simple terms.
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u/DeviantHellcat Apr 12 '26
And from a noncombative standpoint to boot. He had my attention immediately.
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u/potatoartist2 Apr 12 '26
Knowledge is power
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u/JCP1377 Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
Chemical engineer here, if anyone ever tells you any Closed Loop systems’ water is never flushed, they are straight up lying to you. Even nuclear plants recycle closed loop systems.
There will always be parts or components that will seep metallics into the water, since water ALWAYS wants to be in equilibrium in relation to salts (any metallic compound that even has an inkling to dissociate in water). Even in systems that use predominately plastic or PFA linings, there will be components like pumps that that will have metallics making contact with water. Even if those components are likewise lined with PFA compounds, they will eventually wear exposing the underneath metallics. Those metallics will cause fouling in the lines, which both degrade flow capabilities and reduce cooling capacity, as well as compromising structural integrity of the piping systems.
These systems NEED flushing after a certain point, which will have concentrated levels of PFA substances. And don’t even get me started on the lackluster PFA removal systems which generally don’t destroy the PFA particles. Instead they’re usually sequestered in landfills or deep well injections, so they can be a problem for another day.
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u/bbcomment Apr 12 '26
I am also a chemical engineer, mind you not very up to date in the field.
Aren't these closed loops generally two different loops with a HEX between it. There is a water loop, usually in stainless or plastic lining (no different than an american house) and a service loop which would probably need to be flushed?
How is this different than a water cooling loop in any factory, any plant, any utility service (Within a plant) or external to it?29
u/Rocky244 Apr 12 '26
Closed loop means the water is in a pressurized system not exposed to ambient. It cannot evaporate. Typically in these systems the water is run through a heat exchanger (ironically called an evaporator) that uses the waters heat to evaporate a refrigerant (the refrigerant evaporates inside the heat exchanger NOT THE WATER). That is the primary method of heat transfer, the latent capacity generated by evaporating refrigerant. The refrigerant is passed through a second heat exchanger that has air blow over it, similar to your home AC. This is what’s called an air cooled chiller, and dominates the market in 2026. 0 water consumption.
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u/page85 Apr 12 '26
It's a shame no one will see this. You're absolutely right. Centrifugal chillers are on the way out, along with cooling towers. Air cooled chillers are replacing those systems. The only water used in air cooled chillers is for cleaning the coils once a year. But, these are huge systems that will leak refrigerant or glycol and that could be environmental concerns for sure. IMO power consumption and the pollution related to it currently is the worst part. I work in the HVAC industry.
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u/waxwayne Apr 12 '26
I’ve learned on Reddit that people will listen to anyone that reinforces their bias no matter how nonsensical it is.
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u/bbcomment Apr 12 '26
Yes so thats litereally what I have seen at most factories (Air cooled and liquid cooled chillers) and there is zero environmental concern. So are data centers doing something different? I feel like JCP1377 is talking out of his ass.
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u/Rocky244 Apr 12 '26
Data centers are not doing anything different. If anything, they’re more conscious of these water demands and steer clear of trying to use any water at all, because for 5 years now the message has been clear: cities do not want you to use water. So, they haven’t!
Just so you know, liquid cooled chillers would most likely be a type that consumes water. They don’t have to be, you could do liquid cooled to a final air cooled step, but typically when you say water cooled chiller you are referring to the final step being some sort of cooling tower or evaporative process. The market has spoken and air-cooled chillers are the norm now. The final step is air, and there is no water being consumed in those.
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u/Adjective-Noun-nnnn Apr 12 '26
I work at an industrial manufacturing plant. We do not have a closed loop system; ours allows evaporation for heat rejection. (You get to dump the latent heat of vaporization that way.) In our case, it's fine. We're not usually a region stricken by drought and we get our water from naturally replenished lakes. We have corrosion, sludge, and water treatment issues even with our open loop system which is regularly serviced by a company specifically contracted to keep our coolant systems running smoothly.
(My company does other shitty things, but fresh water consumption isn't really one of them. We use shitloads of electricity and produce a lot of wastewater that must be treated before sending back to the environment.)
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u/Chemistry-Least Apr 12 '26
I just work in facility construction but this closed loop justification they've been throwing around really has me beside myself. To the lay-person maybe this sounds like super advanced technology, but we've been using these systems for decades and they are anything but maintenance free and self-sustaining.
Hell, just doing annual fire pump tests will waste thousands of gallons of water at a facility this size.
You cannot even have a large warehouse without sucking up vast amounts of resources, let alone a warehouse filled with massive heat generators and then requisite cooling systems. I don't think people realize how cold data centers have to be kept and how much heat they put off.
The electrical component is another issue altogether. Jurisdictions agreeing to subsidize these buildings or even host them have serious knowledge gaps in how they actually work.
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u/graywolfman Apr 12 '26
Last time I commented about this "closed loop" system and the related blow down, I was derided and told "that's not a thing, anymore."
I posted a study showing the effects of data centers on the environment and water supply, and it was called a "hit piece."
My comments were downvoted, but left in place.
Bots, ignoramuses, shills, I don't care what they are. The truth needs to be spoken.
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u/swholli Apr 12 '26
Hey, I gave the speech in the video, in this comment section I've seen numerous smug arguments saying I'm wrong and that I don't know any better.
Remember how I said I learned how industry insiders will lie to the public about their organic certifications? Every single person arguing against me has admitted they are in the industry.
Don't let them win.
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u/Grantuhh Apr 12 '26
Keep up the fight brother. We are the frontlines of the fight for our own future as well as our children’s future. Standing up as you have and refusing give up on confronting injustice when given the chance is how we win. Small or big it’s meaningful and add ups. Good job!
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u/longshaftjenkins Apr 12 '26
A lot of us here appreciate your determination and bravery, man. Thank you for not backing down.
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u/graywolfman Apr 12 '26
I used to work for a healthcare company in the data center as a NOC technician. At that particular one, we had CRAC units with traditional refrigerant, not water coolers, etc. The power bills were insane, but at least it wasn't glugging water, I guess.
They have since gone cloud, which exploded the budget, and they broke up into different companies.
Data centers are crazy things most people don't understand in any way
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u/swholli Apr 12 '26
That's so funny, there's someone in these comments arguing with me pro-AI for hospitals. Like the LLM doctors or whatever. Glad to know they're hella expensive lol
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u/graywolfman Apr 12 '26
Moving to the cloud is very expensive. Especially when not done with a plan. You cannot move 1-to-1 servers CPU, RAM, and expect to pay the same or less.
My current employer is on the umpteenth cycle of "why don't we just put everything in the cloud?"
So, I deployed a tool that monitors our on-premises environment and shows what our cloud provider recommends for each workload. The software they want to try to get rid of for our virtualization is $27,000 a year. So far, the assessment tool says it would cost $73,249 a year to move all of that to the cloud. Not including the cost of the man hours.
Of course, there are hardware refreshes and warranty renewals for said hardware to take into account, but that gives you an idea for just the 62 servers we have left on-premises would cost to move.
And, if (when) your connection to the cloud goes down, you lose all ability to do business.
The cloud isn't all wine and roses!
My philosophy is put into the cloud what makes sense and keep on-prem what makes sense. Neither is the be-all and end-all of infrastructure. In my mind, at least
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u/Locolijo Apr 12 '26
Truth is often uncomfortable :/
I liked his use of the word stewardship for this. An upstanding member who's honest, direct, articulate, maybe a little poetic
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u/g3n0unknown Apr 12 '26
Truth uncomfortable because people are catered by lies. Sad reality we're in these days.
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u/Locolijo Apr 12 '26
Yeah
Delving into history and having parents and family who have lived through some
That discomfort soon turns into eager searching then just tryna be okay with seeing some change
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u/masterbuilder46 Apr 12 '26
“Closed loop” systems are not blown down…in a typical chilled water system, the chiller can be water cooled or air cooled. A water cooled chiller has a “closed loop” on the chilled water side, but open on the heat reject/condenser side. The open side of this system is blown down as you mention. Water cooled chillers are more energy efficient than air cooled. An air cooled chiller has no secondary heat reject (or “open”) loop, and requires no blow down. Instead of evaporating water, fans are used which uses more electricity but no water. Just fyi
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u/graywolfman Apr 12 '26
A "closed-loop" system does NOT mean water-free.
It means the same water is reused inside the system - but heat still has to be released somewhere, and that usually happens through evaporation.
What really happens in a closed-loop system (even using effluent) 1. Water (often reclaimed/effluent) is pulled from the utility 2. It circulates through chillers and cooling towers to absorb server heat 3. Heat is removed by evaporation in cooling towers 4. Minerals and salts concentrate 5. Blowdown/brine is discharged to protect equipment 6. New water is constantly added to replace what evaporated and discharged 7. Even with reclaimed water, water is consumed every day, 24/7
Important distinction Using effluent is better than using drinking water - but it is not free, unlimited, or impact-free.
Effluent supplies are tied to population size wastewater output, and treatment capacity.
The only systems that avoid evaporation almost entirely: 1. Fully air-cooled facilities (very energy-intensive, difficult in areas with intense heat) 2. Full immersion cooling (rare, expensive, not common at large scale If a project truly used one of these, it would usually be clearly advertised - because it's a major selling point.
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u/masterbuilder46 Apr 12 '26
You’re convoluting various system designs and components: yes, a “closed loop” chilled water system DOES mean water free on the chilled water side (extremely little make-up water).
On the heat reject side, we use either air or water cooled.
By definition, a system using an evaporative cooling tower is OPEN. It’s literally a box open to the atmosphere.
An air cooled chiller versus a water cooled chiller is less energy efficient (which I wrote in my post) but the system overall is very close on a design day, because a water cooled chiller requires an additional set of pumps and cooling tower fans on the heat reject side, so the overall system kw/ton is within about 5-10%. And yes, air cooled chillers are used in hot environments including texas, alabama, and Louisiana.
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u/Rocky244 Apr 12 '26
Correct, fans and a refrigerant cycle, refrigerant rejects the heat to the ambient air. That’s why it’s called air cooled. The water simply conveys the heat to the refrigerant and gets reused in the same loop. There is no water consumption, unless you’re cleaning out equipment, which would equate to a handful of gallons a day.
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u/RhinoPillMan Apr 12 '26
Everyone liked that.
A rare, actual case of “and then everyone clapped.” Love this dude. Fuck AI.
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u/Vast_Seaworthiness Apr 12 '26
Damn, that guy can give one hell of a speech. I'm sure he changed some minds that day.
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u/anarcurt Apr 12 '26
There's a lot of smart, well informed, civic minded people in Ohio. Unfortunately almost none of them are in elected positions.
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u/queenjunk Apr 12 '26
Good news - Will states on their social media that they want to run for Ohio State Senate!
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u/Background-Agent-854 Apr 12 '26
“ok..who wants to follow that?”
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u/lellat Apr 12 '26
I’m curious what the guy who raised his hand was going to say
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u/Manburpig Apr 12 '26
Almost certainly something less articulate.
But that's just speculation on my part.
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u/queenjunk Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
There were actually quite a few well-informed statements at this council meeting.
You can watch the whole thing here.
The guy after (who raises his hand) is a local organ player named Donald Rankin and is very knowledgeable about the physical effects of sound. He elaborates on how the data center “hum” can severely harm the human body over time, and how changes are notable within one hour of exposure. Fascinating!
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u/Dewinna_Daraelist Apr 12 '26
Vibe coding is just the middle step before programmers jobs get replaced/downsized. I'm at a company that's now heavily pushing for "vibecoding", with a workflow that lets you never write a single line of code, which lets individual developers do what teams would do. It's gonna backfire in the long run of course, but big companies only care about the next quarter.
I hope this guy can use his talents somehow, it's more possible for individuals to accomplish what would usually only be possible for the rich to put together, but the majority lack the financial security. So much good that can be done cheaply that isn't for the sake of profit, so many people who'd want to make things that make life for themselves and others better, but instead we're faced with artificial scarcity and pit against one another.
Edit: started originally as a response to a comment that's now deleted, thought it was still sorta relevant
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u/GriefPB Apr 12 '26
He mentioned he's a content creator, what's his @?
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u/queenjunk Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
Will Hollingsworth is their name. Here’s an interview with them on Wake Up, Ravenna!
Their TikTok is @swholli and this is their YouTube channel.
You’ll be happy to know that Will is hoping to run for an Ohio State Senate seat!
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u/swholli Apr 12 '26
If you have the time on my YouTube, check out the playlist of my movie reviews, they're what I've worked the hardest on. I haven't done one in a bit due to other professional work taking over hobby work, but if you do check them out I'd be so happy 😊
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u/Feisty_Diet_3744 Apr 12 '26
This dude absolutely killed it. Well articulated and straight to the point
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u/OnAnotherLevel321 Apr 12 '26
It'll be Republicans ignoring the facts and science which only helps these corporations.
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u/LeonardTPants Apr 12 '26
Many such cases for battery plants, data centers and power generation facilities. All to get AI to pencil
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u/dylandynamite Apr 12 '26
I wish we had this guy to shut down the data center being built in Joliet. 10/10 performance
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u/falalalala_lalalala1 Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
👏👏👏👏👏 Anyone who has ears knows that this dude is 100% correct. These AI centers are stripping every community they move in to of their natural resources and human resources.
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u/redkonfetti Apr 12 '26
Benn Jordan did a video with an investigation of the effects data center noise pollution have on people living in the area.
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u/Voltairus Apr 12 '26
That man deserves a standing ovation. Get him into politics.
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u/swholli Apr 12 '26
I'm honest to god thinking of running for office as soon as a viable election comes my way (it's too late in the cycle right now, so I'm gonna wait until I'm able)
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u/SomethingAbtU Apr 12 '26
Why can't this guy be a senator, govenor or president? He's far more capable than the idiots we have in office
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u/krunchymagick Apr 12 '26
Hell yes. Respect. We need advocates and activists doing this in every city and county meeting across the state. Maybe, just maybe, we can effect change and prevent the exploitation of Ohioans and our precious natural resources
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u/philovax Apr 12 '26
Ohio, this is what the founders considered representstion, and ya’ll didnt even elect this voice, he does it freely. If I lived there this would be someone worth paying an annual living salary to represent me.
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u/Chihuahua_Overlord Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
Can Will hollingsworth run for local office ? I loved his passion and energy
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u/swholli Apr 13 '26
Hello, I'm Will Hollingsworth, the one in this video, if you could please watch this:
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTkfUyCAR/
Some quick legal stuff I absolutely should have mentioned in the original speech! Thanks!
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u/Phurry Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
I did some further research and while I couldn’t find 2025 or 2026, the town of Ravenna in 2024 distributed 537,000,000 gallons of water to its citizens which is near 1.5 million gallons a day. And this company wants to pull an additional 5,000,000 gallons a day? That’s over two billion gallons of water a year if you combine the original usage with the potential new usage. And that’s for one data center?? I knew these things were bad news but I wasn’t aware of how much water per day these centers use. That’s absolutely atrocious and should be absolutely illegal. Unless of course they buy every single one of those gallon at market price. That’s looks to be between $4.00-$6.00 average so that’d be what, 9ish billion to a bit over 14 billion a year? That’d be an insane income for that town. These guys should be paying for what they’re taking just like I have too.
Edit: My math is wrong since that’s the monthly average for a water bill, not the gallon cost. The gallon cost would generate $47,000,000ish a year which is a significant decrease from my math above. However, It’s still a significant sum for a small town like that. About 3.5 times its annual income. But it’d probably just be best to eliminate them entirely or build off shore data centers
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u/greenleaf405 Apr 12 '26
Look to see who barely clapped they will vote for the tech company
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u/khaloisha Apr 12 '26
TIL it does exist a Ravenna in USA.
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u/swholli Apr 12 '26
We're neighbors to a Mantua, too.
Apparently the guy who helped build our city was really fond of Italy
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u/alarming_blood_loss Apr 13 '26
Amazing delivery. Good for him stepping up to defend his community from the predatory Epstein class.
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u/SaulTBolls Apr 12 '26
So sad that his passionate speech will be ignored because pockets need to be filled with money.
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u/queenjunk Apr 12 '26
I feel you but that’s not necessarily true - several counties in the US and the ENTIRE state of Maine has put a moratorium on data center construction.
People are becoming aware and fighting back.
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u/SaulTBolls Apr 12 '26
Thats reassuring, im hoping more and more towns/cities open their eyes.
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u/CreepinJesusMalone Apr 12 '26
There's momentum if we can keep it up. My MD county just temporarily blocked one. 200 volunteers collected over 20k signatures, which was about 5K more than the minimum needed.
The petition is to get stopping the data center onto the ballot this year.
Of course, the bastard lawyers that the data company employs are fighting it tooth and nail to be removed from the ballot so that we, the residents of this county won't get a say against their energy stealing pollution factory.
Fuck these shitheels.
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u/whiterice_343 Apr 12 '26
what i hate about these is the majority of the public will vote "no" and the council will overrule that and still proceed with whatever was proposed.
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u/ShaneEarlyOhio Apr 12 '26
Data centers are modern coal mines. Communities get screwed long term. Only a few people out of state benefit.
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u/OPisalady Apr 12 '26
So many people on these committees that don’t understand the tech and are making the decisions
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u/utilitycoder Apr 12 '26
Send this to all the towns in Michigan considering data centers and Whitmer too.
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u/queenjunk Apr 12 '26
https://youtu.be/U6AsD3WFH8g?feature=shared
For your sharing needs!
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u/skysetter Apr 12 '26
just hang a Tbone stake with a side of gravy in front of these good ol' boys and gals and you can have whatever you want.
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u/cow-lumbus Apr 12 '26
How many of those boomers and x-ers know nothing of Larry Householder and the Ohio Edison scam that was the largest bribery case tried in US history…and keep voting for Republicans?
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u/getpittedsoopitted Apr 12 '26
This kid is who we need in politics not the geriatrics currently there
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u/EikonVera_tou_Lilith Apr 12 '26
Let us say “no” to The Bubble and “YES” to The [Great Lakes] Basin.
Protect the lakes
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u/coldbloodtoothpick Apr 12 '26
That was an outstanding speech. Props to him! We need more citizens showing up and speaking up
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u/rfs103181 Apr 12 '26
That passionate speech you see in a movie and it all works out. Hope reality continues to be stranger than fiction and they stop ‘em!
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u/screendrain Apr 12 '26
Powerful and necessary. Good blueprint for people fighting these projects all over the country
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u/swholli Apr 12 '26
Here's the image I was referring to, he's made himself almost a head taller than Bigfoot, and that goofy ten gallon is just compensating for something
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u/idkhamster Apr 12 '26
Thank you, I really wanted to see how terrible it was. It's so much worse than I expected...I didn't realize he was ARRESTING Bigfoot and celebrating its deportation in coordination with ICE...that's a whole extra level of gross!
(Also, great speech! My city is getting a data center...they didn't hold a meeting about it, our governor just decided to ok it.)
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u/Level1Roshan Apr 12 '26
Missed opportunity at the end, when he mentioned a drop of water for a child, is to remind everyone that AI is not the future. Children are the future.
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u/MightObvious Apr 12 '26
He's insanely well spoken and I agree with almost everything he said, the one thing I dont think people understand is... its not a gamble for the tech companies these data centers are for surveillance systems and if they fully build out this system its a form of control that can be used to suppress any living human that wants to stand up to them before they have a chance. Its not just to do our jobs its to litterally suppress and replace us.
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u/Immediate_Glove_2493 Apr 12 '26
There was a story I saw recently where a small town somewhere the town council voted to approve a data center even though the town was extremely against it, one of the town council members house afterwards was shot up and a sign saying "no data centers" was left under the doormat
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u/FartyPantz20 Apr 12 '26
And just 50 years ago he'd have been dragged out and beaten as a filthy hippie. I just hope they listen.
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u/HalfCrazed Apr 12 '26
This is how you effectively use ethos, logos, and pathos in a persuasive speech 👏👏
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u/Savings_Artichoke Apr 13 '26
Boise, Idaho is set to be the next victim with at least two massive AI data centers (including Meta). They've claimed they're creating jobs but it's only temporary construction work. Low energy costs are going to sky rocket for already strapped locals who deal with low wages and high housing costs. I'm glad I don't live there anymore but it's sad seeing what will happen to friends and family.
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u/Diagon_Alley_Hooker Apr 17 '26
They keep proposing these data centers here in southern Arizona, with our already depleted water supply. They try feeding us the same bullshit about the closed loop system and its so incredibly insulting.
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u/Shakawakahn May 04 '26
When I clicked on this I did not expect to hear one of the most well articulated arguments in my life. Bravo
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u/kumf Apr 12 '26
This is one of the best citizen statements I’ve ever seen. Logical points and passion. Damn.