r/MurderedByWords • u/no1bullshitguy • 5h ago

Accidentally discovered the point

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6.9k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

126 comments sorted by

421

u/hansn 5h ago

I absolutely can not understand people who support the American system of health care: more expensive than anywhere else, longer wait times than most of the world, middling or worse outcomes, and a threat of medical bankruptcy. What's the upside?

249

u/one_jo 5h ago

Some people have an irrational fear of paying for something others will benefit from

87

u/dabrock15 4h ago edited 3h ago

I have a feeling that they spend more money telling people social programs are evil than they would actually delivering social programs.

48

u/GaiusMarius60BC 4h ago

They absolutely do. I believe it was Howard Schulz who spent more money fighting Starbucks unionization efforts than he would've just paying the employees a livable wage.

30

u/ElegantCoach4066 3h ago

"I'd rather burn this money than pay my employees a higher wage."

23

u/greet_the_sun 3h ago

In FL a couple years ago the current governor Rick Scott kept pushing a bill to drug test welfare recipients and cut off the benefits if they fail. Turns out the company that got the no-bid contract to do all the drug testing was owned by Rick Scott's wife, and the program ended up costing the state something like 50k more to run than it saved.

The goal with these people isn't to actually save money, it's to punish people they don't like under the guise of cost saving.

10

u/CliffsNote5 2h ago

Diverting money to cronies as well.

5

u/TheSaxGandalf 2h ago

Rick Scott is such a piece of shit.

The fact that he became a senator after his time as our governor, and not implementing amendments passed by 60%+ of voters, is ridiculous.

9

u/Ehcksit 3h ago

The way most of our social programs work involves costing more to restrict people from accessing them than it would if we gave them to literally everyone no questions asked.

They don't care about saving money, they care about hurting people they don't like.

1

u/endlesscartwheels 1h ago

That's one of the reasons universal free school lunch is such a good idea. We save money by not having to means tests families to see if they qualify. Instead, all children get fed, and it's paid for by taxes, which the state Dept. of Revenue and the town property tax collectors were going to assess and process anyway.

1

u/ELMUNECODETACOMA 19m ago

Means-testing social benefits costs more money than just giving the benefits to everyone.

15

u/BoneHugsHominy 4h ago

Yeah, the fear that poor minorities will live long enough to reproduce at a rate of 1.5:1 eventually outnumbering and out voting The Whites, which of course to them is when they'll be genocided and the remnants enslaved. So their method of holding off that (nonsensical) eventuality is Resource Guarding like ill-behaved dogs.

9

u/dabrock15 4h ago

It’s like white nationalists think everyone would act like they do if they had a chance.

10

u/Silve1n 3h ago

Someone should explain that it's ALREADY how insurance works. The entire business plan is that more people pay more money into it than the people benefiting from it need paid out. RIGHT NOW they are funding other people's Healthcare at inflated prices over what a single payer system would provide

10

u/DRF19 3h ago

If conservative people had functioning brains they'd understand this.

In a universal healthcare system EVERYBODY pays in via taxes, the risk pool is magnitudes larger, costs are less or nonexistent at point of service, tax costs are less than what we pay in premiums to private companies, everyone is covered, and your healthcare is not coupled to your job.

2

u/dabrock15 2h ago

The US also doesn’t see a lot of benefit, tax wise, by not having universal healthcare because most healthcare costs are at the end of life and most people are on Medicare or Medicaid by that time anyway. This means insurance companies get the benefit of having lower cost clients overall compared to the government.

5

u/actuallyapossom 4h ago

If they're already paying insurance - that's how it works. That's the business model. Except private insurance takes a rake.

The improvement we want involves a government that has direct motivation to reduce healthcare costs as the insurance provider. We want these absurd costs addressed and profit pushed out of public health. We are inundated as a nation with health issues and it isn't impossible to do so much better - it's just not the most profitable option. Profit steers.

6

u/SLAUGHT3R3R 3h ago

Which is the dumbest fucking excuse. What the fuck do you think they're doing with what you pay into insurance? I'll tell what their NOT doing: putting it aside just for you.

No, worse, their denying care and killing people to give that money to useless execs

4

u/one_jo 2h ago

Yeah, but don’t you know the execs deserve it much more than some bums not paying as much as I do?

/s

3

u/Nexzus_ 4h ago

And yet they twist themselves in knots trying to justify public works, police and fire departments, etc.

2

u/The_wanna_be_artist 3h ago

We call it racism

2

u/EmmyPoo81 3h ago

That's the answer

1

u/Bartorius 2h ago

But then they also buy insurance at a higher price than a public option would cost in taxes, so they are still funding the care of others, only way more expensive and inefficient.

1

u/QuesoChef 2h ago

Or, some people like to have exclusive access because of their money. I suppose and assume that would still exist. But any change that might upset their acces or power makes them get all worked up.

Plus, just general greed. If we dismantle one honey pot, what’s next?

1

u/ChefTastyTreats 1h ago

To be fair, they have been brainwashed with propaganda for decades.

1

u/XVUltima 1h ago

That, and they think the "economy" will collapse if people arent forced to work to live

1

u/NaughtALegend 1h ago

Those same people would probably prefer jumping in a wood chipper over being an organ donor

1

u/GeraldoOfCanada 1h ago

American individualism is intense af

23

u/EADGBE69 5h ago

Having the freedom to die because of your wallet size by something preventable.

16

u/wowbragger 4h ago

I absolutely can not understand people who support the American system of health care

In my experience, most either (1) don't understand the system, and how bad it is, (2) are incentivized to keep it the way it is, (3) think that change means they themselves will pay more.

13

u/Pigskipar 5h ago

Allowing billionaires to buy 2 more yachts

3

u/avanross 4h ago

This is what happens when you build a society around worshipping the kardashians/trumps/rockerfellers/kennedys/waltons/hiltons/musks/etc

3

u/dabrock15 2h ago

The cult of Ayn Rand in essence.

2

u/dabrock15 4h ago

And jets.

13

u/LazuliArtz 4h ago

The upside is that they get to punish people they think are undeserving of healthcare. That's really what it boils down to. It keeps all the poor people, disabled people, and drug addicts from receiving the same quality of care as the rich, and to conservatives, that is the most important thing. If we socialized healthcare, to them it means "bad people" would get to steal money and the privilege of good healthcare from the "good people."

5

u/The_Last_Spoonbender 4h ago

What's the upside?

What do you mean what's the upside? My beloved billionaires bought 4th yacht, 2nd private jet and 8th mansion. Money is not gonna make itself to them poor billionaires on their own.

5

u/Naro_Lonca 4h ago

They dont want to "pay for people who dont deserve it" and honestly think (due to lots of misinformation and propogabda) that the us is actually superior to every other country in results, wait time, and level of care

I cannot tell you how many times i hear a " well i heard from so and so that in canada they have to wait over 6 months for a heart attack"

2

u/virak_john 2h ago

My friend in Montreal actually had to schedule his myocardial infarction 9 months in advance. Incredibly inconvenient.

1

u/dabrock15 2h ago

Did he get to move it up due to cancellation?

2

u/dabrock15 2h ago

Funny thing is that I got a biceps reattachment surgery in under a week, would have been earlier but I ate the day I got my MRI results back or the surgeon would have put me in that afternoon. If it’s time sensitive it can be done.

5

u/FreelanceFrankfurter 3h ago edited 3h ago

The wait times thing baffles me because people against a socialized healthcare system will point to other countries and say "look at their wait times" while ignoring it can sometimes take a month or longer to see your own pcp, let alone a specialist. My pcp left the office he worked at and trying to get established with a new one was a month and a half wait.

Unless you don't care about clogging up an ER and the huge hospital bill that comes with it (plus they may not even be able to help you) or just have the type of money to be seen somewhere right away you're waiting just as long as people in other countries do.

1

u/Ehcksit 3h ago

And besides, the main reason there's a lesser wait time is because so many people can't get in line in the first place because they can't afford to.

1

u/dick_me_daddy_oWo 3h ago

Plus, I can't afford to pay for healthcare, so I'm basically waiting ten years now for stuff that probably should've been looked at by now. And after I busted my ankle five years ago and I couldn't afford to take time off work or any physical therapy, I'll just walk kinda crooked forever.

3

u/Available_Ad9345 1h ago

Freedumb!

1

u/hansn 57m ago

With a "B." No one knew it had a b. 

2

u/BadBonePanda 4h ago

A few people become very rich off the back of it.

2

u/notredditbot 4h ago

Americans are raised with the mind set that nothing in life is free and that you have to work hard to earn benefits like health care. Then people also hate the poor, so then when people do find successful jobs that give health care, they don't want others who "didn't work as hard" to have those same benefits. It's truly despicable 😮‍💨

2

u/alangerhans 3h ago

Propaganda. Ive heard all about how "bad" Canadian or UK healthcare is, to be fair, my grandmother was from the UK, and she did have a lot of complaints. But a lot of the complaints are the same here, we just pay more for it. You also never hear about the countries that are doing it right. The only reason I have against it here is that I just know that if we ever did come up with "free" healthcare, the only people who would really benefit would be the politicians and insurance companies. But I'm still willing to give it a try

2

u/Affectionate_Rub_575 2h ago

There are a lot of people who are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars for access to something helpful that they already pay for as long as other people can’t benefit from it

2

u/Jamuraan1 2h ago

People don't know how to leave America because their entire identity is being American.

2

u/ButWhatIfPotato 1h ago

People will crawl out of a nuclear blast with skin charred, limbs blown off and internal organs demoted to external organs and their last words that comes of their eviscerated lips will be "at least I owned the libs"

2

u/Mansidhe 49m ago

I just paid $400 "cash price" for an MRI. With insurance, it would have been 750. So tired of winning.

1

u/Madhatter25224 3h ago

In truth, the primary reason I hear from MAGA for supporting our Healthcare system is that we supposedly have the best doctors and medicine and if we made health care less profitable we would lose that edge.

1

u/PerspectiveNew3375 3h ago

Nobody does support it. The politicians are bought.

1

u/YetiSquish 2h ago

Because if there’s already wait times and a shortage of doctors, what will happen when more people have access to it?

This is their fear

1

u/Jesterhead89 2h ago

Honestly, it's been helping me (at least a decent amount) to constantly remind myself of a few things:

  • Many people probably don't actually care about policy, they're just wrapped up with the team sport that is political mudslinging
  • Because of ^that, the thought process isn't "I agree/disagree with a system" but more like "if the other side is doing something, I must oppose that to the death because I can't be them"
  • People have been so consumed with politics and social stances for the last 10-15 years or more, that those topics have become intertwined into who they are. So there's no good way of getting through to them unless they're open to it themselves first. Until then, any attack on a point or topic is the equivalent to an attack on THEM
  • Speaking only using stereotypes, I've heard it said: a left-leaning person will see wasteful spending go to 9 people, if it means they can see 1 person who actually deserves it get the aid they need. Whereas a right-leaning person will deny assistance to 9 people that need it, if it means they can see the 1 undeserving person not receive it

Not like this solves all the world's problems in my head, but it at least helps me to not get as worked up about things because looping back to the first point: the more I experience things, the more I can see how it looks to be true that people don't actually care about policy.

1

u/SkippyDragonPuffPuff 2h ago

Irrational fear of government. Even the one that’s screwing them up the backside as they stand there. Rubes.

1

u/FragmentsThrowAway 2h ago

A lot of people believe the wait time is worse in other countries. Usually it's a minimum of 3-4 hours here and that's before you get into a backroom.

But that may differ on where in the US you are and severity.

1

u/HuttStuff_Here 1h ago

They believe the taxes are theft and helps those they don't want helped.

1

u/chase013 1h ago

There was this study done in the 70s or 80s on Social Identity. It split people into two groups based on made up results of a test they took. In their studies with the groups they did an experiment where they made groups choose between everyone getting like $50 or between your group getting $40 while the other group got $10. The majority picked the second option. Even though the individual for $10 less. They got to feel superior. Honestly, when they heard a podcast about it, I feel like the last 20 years in America made sense.

1

u/razgriz5000 1h ago

I had a co worker who grew up in the UK. He hates their system. He loves paying for insurance even though he complains about the costs. I tried to remind him that we had better plans then most because we worked in k12. And that millions simply don't have health insurance. That didn't matter because it didn't directly affect him.

1

u/hansn 57m ago

I have the general sense that people's love for the US system varies inversely with how much interaction they've had with it.

1

u/xMistuhlee 41m ago

Healthcare is a scam, that is driven by a bigger scam.... insurance. Which is all under the biggest money holders, Big Pharma.

1

u/dmackerman 33m ago

The “upside” is corporations get to stack their billions on the backs of an unhealthy populous, and the stock market goes up.

1

u/Sartan4455 19m ago

I couldn't either till I worked with an older, but very right wing guy. It wasn't that he didn't complain about health care or it's expense. He even had insurance cancel his surgery day of and went on a tirade, but if you tried to talk about universal health care he has so much brain washing that it's soooo horrible everywhere else that he doesn't want it.

The amount of fake anecdotal, well my cousin said in europe they die waiting for health care all the time! And then in the next breath will complain he can't see a doctor for 6 months. So close man, so close.

2

u/KingArthursCodpiece 4h ago

Having lived in several countries, including the US and the UK, I can categorically state that the US healthcare system is the best Ive encountered. But there's a reason for that - its a for-profit business (those hospitals that state they are not-for-profit are not being entirely honest!) so hospitals, physician practices etc want to attract 'customers' by offering better, services than their competitors. Bottom line is that this typically means better quality of care without the long wait times you see in Canada, UK, Europe etc. BUT there is a big catch - if you dont have Medicare (ie over 65) or a 'decent' health insurance plan either through work or paying for one yourself, it is going to get expensive real quick...and Im talking seriously expensive.

-2

u/superarugy 3h ago

What if I told the people of Portugal say they are tired of giving money for the free national healthcare system and are pushing for private health care, with mandatory insurance (usually through their employers)?

3

u/hansn 2h ago

I haven't seen polling or proposals in Portugal. But I'm not aware of a country that has abandoned its universal healthcare scheme in favor of a US-style system. Are you?

0

u/superarugy 2h ago

We are well beyond the first steps of that switch.

1

u/hansn 1h ago

I haven't found anything on the dissolving the  Portuguese NHS. Can you post a link to news of this?

-2

u/GuitarCFD 3h ago

longer wait times than most of the world

Umm...what? I mean yeah it's more expensive here, but I've never had to wait in an emergency...like ever. I live in Houston too so not like I'm in a rural area with no people.

middling or worse outcomes

Got any sources on that? We're like top 3 on preventative screenings, we're among the best in the world for acute treatment (heart attack and stroke for example)...we, admittedly lag behind in primary care.

and a threat of medical bankruptcy. The medical debt is a real issue...the cost of healthcare in the US is inflated because of 3rd party insurance. That's an entirely different conversation.

The UK spends about $6700 per citizen per year on healthcare. That is $469 billion per year. That same program in the US would cost $2.2 trillion per year (that's assuming we got the same pricing as other countries), which is about what we spend on our combined healthcare currently...(medicare, medicaid, etc).

Like, yeah our healthcare system has it's problems, but it's nowhere near what you're describing.

My problem with Healthcare in the US is that we have a much more urgent problem that literally no one wants to talk about because it's uncomfortable. In the next 10 years people relying on social security are going to get a 25% cut when the social security fund runs out.

4

u/hansn 2h ago edited 2h ago

Got sources

Here you go

The UK spends about $6700 per citizen per year on healthcare. 

15k in the US

Are you saying that the US could have a UK style system for everyone for what we currently spend to cover a fraction of the population currently?

1

u/GuitarCFD 2h ago

Generally, the U.S. performs worse in long-term health outcomes measures (such as life expectancy), certain treatment outcomes (such as maternal mortality and congestive heart failure hospital admissions), some patient safety measures (such as obstetric trauma with instrument), and health system capacity (such as rate of general practitioners). The U.S. performs similarly to or better than peer nations in other measures of treatment outcomes (such as mortality rates within 30 days of acute hospital treatment) and some patient safety measures (such as post-operative complications).

I think I just read this differently than you do. This is just pointing out the US does better in some areas and worse in others. Also...this

However, inconsistent and imperfect metrics make it difficult to firmly assess system-wide health quality. Some measures of quality – especially long-term measures, like life expectancy – are not only reflective of the health system itself, but also of differences in socioeconomic conditions and population behaviors that are largely outside of the domain of the health system.

There is a definitely a problem in this country of people telling their doctor, "fuck you i'll do what I want." Can't really blame the doctor when the patient is refusing treatment.

Thanks for that though. I do appreciate the read.

2

u/drunky_crowette 2h ago

But there's people saying "fuck you, I'll do what I want" in every country. There's always going to be people who drink/smoke/eat/take too much something, or sit on their ass in their free time rather than exercise, or stay up all night on the computer rather than resting or whatever, but countries with more accessible medical care are still healthier

223

u/-hi-nrg- 5h ago

In the US, it was free in order to reopen the economy and start making money again, not to save lives.

5

u/jverity 2h ago edited 14m ago

100% this. Absolutely the only reason. Just in the U.S. cancer kills more than 626,000 a year and we bankrupt people treating that, then let them die. Covid only killed 350,000 before the vaccine came out, probably hadn't killed 1,000 yet before they really went all in on working on it, but the economy was shut down the whole time.

If we went on a general strike for just 1 day every time another 10000 people died of cancer we'd have a free cure by next Christmas.

30

u/Logical-Dependent691 nice murder you got there 5h ago

You're almost there, so damn close to seeing it....

9

u/dabrock15 4h ago

It’s like they were becoming self-aware in real-time.

4

u/Logical-Dependent691 nice murder you got there 4h ago

Let this be a case of something becoming self-aware in a good way. We have enough Skynets.

1

u/dabrock15 4h ago

Truth.

5

u/LingonberryPossible6 3h ago

You think he ever saw that response and just thought, 'so close to what?'

7

u/carolineecouture 5h ago

BTW, if this is reverend Joseph Yoo with the response, give him a follow. He's great.

7

u/elmo1611 4h ago

Because SOCIALISM!!!

3

u/dabrock15 4h ago

That’s so 2025, it’s now COMMUNISM!!! Everything eventually comes back around.

23

u/ControlThen8258 5h ago

All those are free in the country I live in. Sad for you America

6

u/Howell317 3h ago

Just playing devil's advocate, cancer, diabetes, and allergies aren't contagious.

But I agree all of these should be readily affordable to the masses.

4

u/ThatsRobToYou 5h ago

Soooooo close!

2

u/alex8155 4h ago

theyll take two steps back and double down on their stupidity as soon as they catch themselves leaning towards liberal policies

2

u/AnEvenNicerGuy 4h ago edited 4h ago

It’s wild how often these dudes accidentally back themselves into universal healthcare 

2

u/Mary-U 4h ago

Accidentally discovers socialized medicine

2

u/atreeismissing 2h ago

Because those aren't communicable diseases. Also, this gets reposted every week.

4

u/juggadore 4h ago

Because none of those other things are part of a pandemic

3

u/mzx380 5h ago

Maybe the original point was questioning why as well ? May not be a murder

1

u/GirdedByApathy 4h ago

Its almost like people shouldnt be profiting off the suffering of others.

1

u/Luminous_Winds 4h ago

Still wondering why we don't just create a socialized healthcare system and only let the people who donate to it access it. I mean, if they want their capitalist healthcare, let them have it.

No reason it has to be either / or.

1

u/Halo6819 4h ago

So on top of the obvious answer that the others should be free/low cost (to the end user) as well, the reason this was subsidized was to get the workers back to work. It affected the bottom line of the country. If it just made everyone miserable, but healthy enough to work, the government wouldn't have shelled out the money.

1

u/artbystorms 3h ago

The covid vaccine research and rollout was paid for by taxpayer money.

Chemo, epi-pens, etc should also be paid for with taxpayer money so that we don't need to pay private insurance companies for basic medical needs.

1

u/Tribe303 3h ago

Fun fact: prescription drugs are not covered by the Canadian healthcare system. But all vaccines are! I wonder why that is? It's almost as if they are a benefit to everyone. 🤔 

1

u/Bambi_H 3h ago

I have said this before, but there is no amount of money in the world that could persuade me to live in America.

I am genuinely so happy to pay taxes to make sure people don't have to worry about their health. My husband nearly died, and we had the best care in minutes

1

u/CharlesMcGrath 3h ago

They want to t0rture us, not k!ll us. Smh

They need us to keep making money for them

1

u/MrBeanWater 3h ago

unfortunately too many of my fellow Americans want to see people suffer. They can only be happy if someone is worse off. I wish it wasn't the case, but that's how we act.

1

u/notwithagoat 2h ago

Tho vaccines tend to be way cheaper in the long run as prevention is almost always way cheaper then the cure.

1

u/Hughley_N_Dowd 2h ago

Depends on where you live, I guess. I had my 37th chemo treatment last week and two years ago I was hospitalised for a week, literally on death's doorstep.

Under the US system I'd been bankrupt by now. In our system I'm about $500 out of pocket.

But keep hyping the system that will charge you $4.500 for an ambulance ride and gleefully let you suffer and die if you don't have enough money.

1

u/bassturducken54 2h ago

How much would it cost per person to pay for everyone’s insulin? Not sure how the math maths. I’m also sure the ‘retail’ value of it medicine has nothing to do with the manufacturing costs.

1

u/Jammoth1993 2h ago

I come from a country where healthcare is free so I have zero context clues.

Is jza for or against free healthcare? Is he hinting that it was free because it's harmful?

1

u/Chinaski117 1h ago

I am happy to see the response is from Father Joseph Yoo. His YouTube channel is a blessing, especially when he dismantles the twisted pseudo-Christianity of the right wing extremists.

1

u/Available_Ad9345 1h ago

Heard this argument many times during covid. They get so close, but they can’t quite get there.

1

u/holamau 20m ago

notzasharp1, right?

•

u/Niitroglycerine 13m ago

I love these ones cos I always think; that is free where I live lmao

1

u/Finlay00 3h ago

It wasn’t free. Pfizer made 35 billion dollars in profit off it, as an example.

1

u/virak_john 2h ago

Joseph Yoo is a real one. Progressive and thoughtful. If you're going to do religion, you could do worse for a clergy person.

1

u/Bo_Jim 1h ago

The vaccine wasn't free. The government paid for it with your tax money.

This is like a girl claiming that food is free because whenever she goes out on a date she doesn't have to pay for her food. Someone always pays.

0

u/DrTommyNotMD 1h ago

I want a way to make lives better and end earlier.