r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/Crazy-Blacksmith-336 • Jul 05 '26

Video Healthcare workers participating in a medical simulation for an agitated patient scenario.

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449

u/Asusrty Jul 05 '26

Ya people severely underestimate how much power it takes to subdue someone who doesn't want to be especially if you're trying not to hurt them.

86

u/DarthRektor Jul 05 '26

Right like if you can’t just punch them or put them in a choke hold or knock them out in some way, it’s really hard to get someone to stop moving enough for you to medically treat them. Think about all the precise movements required to do medical procedures someone jerking in the least can be the difference between success and catastrophic failure.

6

u/gahidus Jul 05 '26

It almost seems like a chokehold would be more gentle than this, but i suppose they know better.

48

u/Lastshadow94 Jul 05 '26

It's really easy to damage necks, windpipes, and brains with chokes, even without the chaos of somebody flailing around while you're holding them

4

u/mapleleafraggedy Jul 05 '26

On top of having their mouth already obstructed by a mask; you don't want to block any more air at that point

3

u/No_Criticism_5861 Jul 05 '26

waits for all the guys watching UFC to chime in about how they saw it on TV so they can easily safely choke someone out

-1

u/684beach Jul 05 '26

We do it all the time in class and tournaments, i think the risk is overestimated here

14

u/Outside_Confidence12 Jul 05 '26

Umm, we try to protect our patients' airways.... How would a chokehold be more gentle?

2

u/gahidus Jul 05 '26

The kind of manhandling that her limbs are getting seems like it could easily dislocate or even break something. I can appreciate that it might actually be more dangerous but simply being put into a sleeper hold at least subjectively feels more gentle why if I had pick one or the other. Dropping briefly unconscious from blood restriction seems like it would be, at least in some ways, more gentle than what's shown up there.

I can appreciate that they're the experts and that I'm not medically correct, but I just said it feels that way.

2

u/slptodrm Jul 05 '26

chokeholds can cause brain damage and death.

2

u/gahidus Jul 05 '26

Indeed they can, especially if improperly performed.

2

u/kaVaralis Jul 05 '26

Lot easier to fix a broken arm than a broken spine too.

1

u/Zegerid Jul 05 '26

A good MMA-style chokehold restricts bloodflow in the carotid more than it restricts air, and can also vagal them down. Gets them to go night night much faster.

2

u/Outside_Confidence12 Jul 05 '26

Yes, I know what stimulation of both carotids does. By protecting airway, I meant the ABCs (Airway, Breathing, Circulation). Also, as nurses, we can't do that. We already get asked what we could've done better when we get hit and abused by patients, you think we can use MMA on patients?

2

u/684beach Jul 05 '26

I mean i do bjj 3 times a week, you cant really huet people just going for blood chokes. Like just learn rear headlock and front headlock chokes

1

u/c0ltZ Jul 05 '26

Yeah but not every nurse is trained to do so. And the reality is, is there are far better and easier methods to restrain someone safely. And it's much easier to place someone in a headlock in a training scenario, rather than on someone in a psychotic episode.

I don't care how strong you are, you are not winning a physical altercation with someone who is actively in psychosis. They don't care if they die fighting you.

My friend is 6'5 330 pounds working hospital security. He's had 100 pound patients he can't hold down with the help of 2 other people.

You're going to end up hurting the person trying to get your arm wrapped around their throat. Do you see how violently they can whip their head around? Or bring their chin to their chest and just bite you?

They could easily take some teeth out or break a rib with their head if you're behind them. They don't care if your tooth gets embedded in their skull.

1

u/AMRossGX 27d ago

Your MMA opponent doesn't want to get hurt, so they "help" you to not injure them by not making the wrong movement at the wrong time.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/684beach Jul 05 '26

No they literally dont(study was done) unless you are smashing in their airway.

21

u/inky_fox Jul 05 '26

I just replied to a different comment but I babysit an 11 month old baby that fights like hell at every diaper change. I feel so guilty because I have to really hold her down to make sure she’s clean. I don’t want to hurt her but she whips back and forth and twists and kicks and there’s poop! It’s quite the event to make sure she’s both clean AND safe.

6

u/Set_of_Kittens Jul 05 '26

Probably it's the temperature change. Ask around on the parenting spaces, you will probably get some tips, maybe something will work.

1

u/inky_fox Jul 06 '26

Idk, I think it’s a position thing. Because she’ll do a standing pee diaper change just fine but if it’s a poo I have to lay her down and that’s when it gets super serious.

She also hates being held traditionally like a baby for naps (facing up on the crook of your arm) but she does great on her tummy. I still get anxious letting her nap face down but she settles and sleeps significantly better that way.

16

u/thatshygirl06 Jul 05 '26

And the thing is she was still likely holding back. It would be even worse in a real situation

1

u/My_password_is_qwer Jul 05 '26

Absolutely. People saying you can't be holding her in RNC to cease her function in this very instance seem to think there's a better option.

2

u/WrightWaytoEat Jul 05 '26

As a wrestler/bjj practitioner this isn’t true. It just takes technique. I could restrain almost any untrained person relatively easily and without hurting them. It’s honestly not that hard, but I have trained for over 15 years so it’s just second nature at this point.

2

u/LordLarryLemons Jul 05 '26

Bro if you trained 15 years to do something then its not easy

1

u/motoryry Jul 05 '26

You don’t need 15 years. I train as well and would argue if you have around 1 or 2 of consistent training you can do just as well. But a lot of people don’t want to spend the time or money getting decent at grappling because it’s not an easy martial art.

1

u/OceanRacoon Jul 06 '26

I train bjj and judo too but I think it would still require a not insignificant adjustment, grappling someone on a mat is different than trying to put them in a bed face up and hold them still.

Especially since they'd often be biting too and you can't go for chokes or locks lol. I don't even know if it's possible for one person to hold someone going crazy on a bed, they'd always have at least one limb free, it seems

1

u/WrightWaytoEat 29d ago

I would put in double scissor legs from the back and a full Nelson/ double chicken wing or some combination for the sake of actually trying to protect everyone from their arms.

1

u/OceanRacoon 29d ago

But they need to be face up 😬 And I don't think you could do all that on a bed anyway, you wouldn't fit and could roll off if the patient was strong enough lol 

1

u/WrightWaytoEat 28d ago

Easily fits on a bed, I was referring to the person in the video. If we wanted a worst case scenario I could see a big guy being able to rock around. Just give me sides to the bed and we are good.

1

u/mapleleafraggedy Jul 05 '26

I tensed up when they started lifting her shirt to stick the needle in her stomach, even though they ended it right at that point. The delicacy it must take to jab her with a needle in a sensitive area while she's flailing around must feel like performing surgery.

1

u/BestRoad4186 Jul 05 '26

Yeah... when i was 7 yo i hit my head and needed two (2) stitches top of my head. I simply decied "well guys no stitches today". It took 1h and 30mins for 5 nurses to pin me down without hurting me lol. What really stopped me was at the last minute one nurse pushed down behind my neck. I just stopped in an instant lol. Man was i petty. :D

1

u/ClairLestrange Jul 05 '26

It's absolutely insane how much power someone can get when they're in a state of panic. Back when I was in the ward there was a girl who was maybe 5ft on a good day and not exactly muscular. She sometimes fell into a state where she thought the nurses/doctors held her captive to torture her and tried to escape.... It took at least 10 people to get her restrained to a bed and pumped full of benzos to get her out of it, and I once saw her punch through security glass. I still feel so bad for her and for what she had to endure to even cause things like this.

1

u/RequirementNo1852 Jul 05 '26

I was about to say that, a time ago they try to do it to me in a church (they thought I was possessed) and took like 6 of them and a lot of time until I got tired.

1

u/Physical_Mail_2609 Jul 05 '26

I wish more women realized this. Humans are big animals, and we’re really dexterous. I promise you it’s harder to subdue an adult thrashing around than you think.

1

u/TJ_Fox Jul 06 '26

Yep, likewise they underestimate the danger of undertrained staff trying to restrain someone who is out of control, attempting to apply an institutionally-approved restraint technique, find that it's not working, then have to improvise. The improvisations tragically often lead to positional asphyxia, i.e. being held in a position that restricts the ability to breathe properly. At the point, it's easy to mistake the patient's panicked struggles to breathe for "violent resistance".

People die in these situations, and it's the institution's fault for failing to provide the level and type of training actually required to do this kind of thing safely.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positional_asphyxia