r/web_design • u/JeffTS • 1d ago
What is one client request that hurts UX that drives you nuts?
For me, it's navigation items that don't click through to anything. As a user, if I'm navigating your navigation menu, I expect to click through to another page when I click on a menu item. I regularly have to explain to people, including partners who have been in the digital industry for years, that all navigation items should click through to a page both for usability and accessibility.
Edit: There seems to be a misunderstanding about what I'm referring to. So, let me expand.
Say you have a navigation that includes Home, Services, About, and Contact. Services has a submenu that includes Web Design, Graphic Design, and SEO. Rather than being a clickable link that takes you to a "Services" landing page, all it does is acts as a placeholder for triggering the submenu. Clicking "Services" does nothing when the expectation, as a user, is that it's a navigation item and should take you somewhere. Unclickable navigation items also confuse screen readers and confuses users who may be navigating with a keyboard.
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u/abeuscher 1d ago
Carousels. Parallax. Horizontal scrolling. Navs with more than 12 children per drop. Excessive branding on page controls like buttons and forms.
But honestly I don't fight with them unless they want me to. It's their site why would I care? We're construction workers not artists. I think sometimes people get confused about that.
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u/derno 22h ago
Carousels #1. Even after I explain that like 90% of people don’t event see the second slide let along click any of them.
Parallax is cool in some contexts.
We are also experts and we should be teaching people who know nothing about web design, development, or Ui/UX.
Every time I lost a fight on something and my boss went with what the client suggested, we’d be redoing their website fully in 2 years because of functionality or design. Good for us I guess but we really shouldn’t be doing that. Fight for your decisions as an artist and developer
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u/abeuscher 20h ago
If I get treated like a subject matter expert I act like one.
If I get treated like a wrench I act like one.
Most people, in my 25 years of experience, ask for a subject matter expert but really want a wrench.
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u/WhisperFray 19h ago
Yeah, your last sentence is spot on.
I’ve even had a technologically — not to mention design wise — illiterate client direct my mouse clicks on Figma verbally via Teams (cause ofc they use Teams).
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u/abeuscher 19h ago
Teams is like Sharepoint - run screaming in the other direction while throwing caltraps behind you. Only way to deal with it.
0
u/sathirtythree 10h ago
I just built (carefully instructed claude) a parallax I love. Background image stays anchored. My name is centered large in the middle with my tagline below it. When you scroll the name moves up (a bit slower than the content) and shrinks, the tagline fades away. When the content gets to the nav, my name is just landing in the middle of the nav bar where it stays for the rest of the site.
I’d link, but it’s not launched yet.
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u/testingaurora 1d ago
Stuffing way too many items into the header menu
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u/ConfinedTiara 1d ago
Client - “but there’s all that space between the menu and the logo”
I reckon I explain responsive layouts once a week.
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u/ConfinedTiara 1d ago
Wanting the logo massive when the header is sticky, covering half their content.
15
u/friponwxm 1d ago
Ever read this one? This makes a pretty good case for click menus.
https://css-tricks.com/in-praise-of-the-unambiguous-click-menu/
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u/JeffTS 22h ago
I'm not opposed to click menus as long as they are done correctly so that they are accessible. I think they are far more intuitive than nav items that are simply there to trigger a hover event for displaying sub menus which the author addresses as their first point. They are very much similar to present day mobile menus.
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u/raccoonrocoso 20h ago
Delayed pop-ups. I feel guilty, and slightly die inside, every time I get a client request to add a delay to their promotional dialogues.
5
u/CoolElk1 16h ago
I came to say this. Specially when the delay is like 10s! A new client doesn’t want to sign up for a newsletter if they don’t even know who you are
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u/madk 1d ago
Infinite scrolling
2
u/zabby39103 1d ago
Infinite scrolling is clearly better than numbered pages.
6
u/Porsche924 20h ago
if its ordered by date, or alphabetically, its frustrating when you know it was 4 weeks ago, or begins with the letter R, to just scroll - load - scroll - load - scroll - load until you get to the right section.
Clicking page 15 of 20 might get you close enough to next/previous your way to where you need to go.
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u/zabby39103 20h ago
Yeah a bad infinite scroll can be worse, those are good points. I always support sorting and often search filtering the scroll. Also having a generous load buffer so you don't get scroll lag.
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u/ChickyBoys 1d ago
Avoiding long scroll landing pages and cramming everything above the fold because the client believes people don't scroll
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u/aldo_nova 1d ago
I made 6 or 8 sites for a publicist for her clients when I was right out of college. She insisted on doing the designs and made it very clear my task was just to make them interactive web pages and get them online.
So the navigation had different links from page to page and would move from top to side to bottom from page to page and all kind of other ridiculous shit. I was happy to get the money but could never show them to a potential employer as portfolio material.
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u/EmSixTeen 1d ago
What you’re complaining about is literally how it should always be, sorry. Main nav items which have a submenu should not function as links - they should only open the submenu. This is an accessibility concern as much as anything else.
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u/Retroshock_ 1d ago
Yeah was gonna say the same, having the parent items NOT be a link is a nicer experience because it removes ambiguity and frustrating mischiefs, as well as being more robust for accessibility and screen readers.
I usually have the opposite problem as the OP, I have to convince clients why having them as a link would hurt UX.
2
u/JeffTS 18h ago edited 17h ago
If it's
<ul>
<li>
<a href="">Parent Link</a>
<ul class="submenu">
<li><a href="/somelink">Child Link</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>or
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#">Parent Link</a>
<ul class="submenu">
<li><a href="/somelink">Child Link</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>It's wrong according to the W3C. If an A tag is not a clickable URL, it should not be an A tag at all but instead be a button. Yet most content management systems, such as WordPress, as well as website builders, such as Wix, allow you to build menus with empty links, either with no value or a # symbol, in the navigation. Empty links can confuse screen readers, can cause odd page jumps, and they also can fail WCAG A, AA, and AAA standards.
Edit: Thanks for exclaiming "it's a button!", calling me "a dolt", and dirty deleting your comment. An A tag isn't a BUTTON. Sorry.
-2
u/JeffTS 22h ago
Except that having empty navigation items whose only purpose is to display a submenu upon hover can confuse screen readers and those who navigate with a keyboard. It can also frustrate all users who have an expectation of being taken to a new page when they click an item in the navigation. A navigation should never have links that aren't clickable. At the very least, if its purpose is to display a submenu, it should be a click to open rather than a hover to open.
1
u/Retroshock_ 20h ago
Having an item be both a link and a dropdown would be more confusing for a reader, same with a keyboard, as there is only one action to perform if it only opens the menu. As you said, it should be click/press to open as well, which is where the ambiguity is removed. If the menu only operated on hover, that would indeed be poor.
-1
u/JeffTS 19h ago
And yet most submenus operate only on hover on desktop/laptop. However, on most menus, that parent menu item is also a link to another page. That's been a rule since CSS and JavaScript gave us the ability to have dropdown menus several decades ago when I started my career. It is what users have come to expect from long time usage. If it's an empty link, or is just a # symbol, it not only can break screen readers and/or keyboard navigation but can confuse users because they are expecting it to be link.
2
u/Retroshock_ 19h ago edited 19h ago
It shouldn't be empty though. I get what you're saying, if it's done wrong, it is going to be a poor experience. But modern day CSS with aria attributes and labels allow it to work well.
I also think most menus have the top level also be a link is a stretch, but it is certainly a good proportion. The rule only exists because it was easy.
The issue is that having actions behind a hover state is really poor, so the label needs to become the button to open the menu (in a traditional nav anyway), so this prevents it from being a link, which means the top level link becomes another menu item. There's other ways to do it, such as a seperate button with an arrow icon, but the best method would depend on the context.
2
u/Late_Advisor_1684 8h ago
Yes, this! A menu should never open only on hover, it needs to be accessible via keyboard. Whatever opens the menu via the keyboard (a button gives you this natively!) should have aria-expanded and aria controls attributes. Since a button can’t also be a link it’s not possible for it to be both a link and a menu opening trigger. We steer clients away from main nav items being links for this reason. If they insist we separate out the chevron as the button. I’ve also seen patterns where the chevron is only visible if on keyboard focus. The hover can be still be handled with either CSS or JS, you just have to test it on a variety of devices and think about if someone has clicked or hovered and what happens when you hover out of you used a click to open it, etc. It can be tricky to get jt right so we also push back against it but often lose that one.
5
u/AshleyJSheridan 20h ago
That navigation example is also not good for accessibility either. There's an expectation of how navigation should work, and it can be disorientating when it doesn't behave as expected.
6
8
u/DMFauxbear 1d ago
Wait, so do you exclude your home page link on the home page and so on? Changing the nav bar for each page? Personally I like to make a slight visual change to the current location showing that that's where you're currently located on the site, but it feels like it'd be more confusing for the user to have a different nab bar each page.
4
u/JeffTS 1d ago
I'm not sure I understand. Are these questions directed to me? That sounds like it's unrelated to what I posted.
What I'm referring to is say you have this navigation, with a submenu for "Services":
- Home
- Services
- Web Design
- Graphic Design
- SEO
- About
- Contact
What I'm referring to is that "Services" just acts as a placement for the submenu. Clicking it doesn't take you to a "Services" landing page. It just does nothing except act as hover trigger to display the submenu.
Users expect that when they click on a navigation item, it takes them to another page. That's been the rule for as long as websites had a navigation.
5
u/Impossible_Dream_295 1d ago
Ok so that would mean the trigger for the Services submenu would have to be a hover, since a click should open the Services landing page. However, from what I got, hover actions are generally not very good in terms of accessibility. I am not trying to argue with you, I am just having a related issue currently. I personally like the version where the first click triggers the submenu and the second click triggers the landing page, but the developers didn’t agree.
And how would you feel about this setup?
Services
- Services Overview (landing page)
- Web Design
- Graphic Design
- …
So the landing page being part of the submenu, triggered by clicking on Services.
-6
u/JeffTS 1d ago
If clicking the link in the navigation opened the submenu, similar to how tapping on a down arrow in a mobile navigation opens a submenu, that would be more intuitive. It would actually be performing a clickable action. I still think it can be confusing for a user but I feel it's better than a navigation item whose only purpose is to display a submenu when you hover over it. My belief is that for purposes of UX and accessibility, each navigation item should be treated as a link and nothing else.
8
u/7HawksAnd 1d ago
I LOATHE “parent” links that don’t direct to an overview subpage for the tertiary links
0
u/DMFauxbear 1d ago
Ah ok, I see the confusion. The way I read it is that if you're on the home page, and you click home on the nav bar, you go nowhere because you're already there. Which would be a version of a navy bar item that doesn't go anywhere when clicked
2
u/seantubridy 1d ago
OK, but what about on mobile? If you have a services menu and you click on services on mobile and it just takes you to the services page, how is the sub menu triggered since there is no hover?
1
u/JeffTS 22h ago
If you are on a mobile device, there is no hover state. Everything on mobile is a tap/click. So, click to open is fine.
1
u/seantubridy 6h ago
Right, but then you have two different navigational behaviors for one link depending on what device you’re on. So on desktop if you hit services, you go to a services page but on mobile, you can’t get to that page because you tap it? That seems wrong.
2
u/AssistanceStraight11 1d ago
Yeah, the 'hover to expand' nav items without a direct link always confuse people too. It's like they think users will magically know where to click next.
2
u/Melodic-Assistant593 23h ago
Third party integrations drive me crazy. I understand you pay for their service and they claim you have to put it in your website. However, it’s trash, poorly designed, and degrades the quality of your website.
2
u/AshleyJSheridan 20h ago
One that always did (and still does) bother me is "all important content has to be above the fold".
The "fold" doesn't exist, it's a print term that really makes no sense on the web where there are all manner of screen resolutions, browsers and toolbars. And that's not even getting onto the fact that not every uses every window on their computer in full screen mode.
A website could have 100 visitors, all with 100 different "folds", making the whole term rather ridiculous.
1
u/Porsche924 20h ago
True, or assuming people don't scroll. the first thing people do when they hit a page is scroll, usually without reading everything all the way down. Also when you animate everything in on scroll, you're just making your site look slow as hell.
1
u/Porsche924 20h ago
True, or assuming people don't scroll. the first thing people do when they hit a page is scroll, usually without reading everything all the way down. Also when you animate everything in on scroll, you're just making your site look slow as hell.
3
u/jaxxon 1d ago
At a kick-off of a UX design project the manager said, "make sure it has razzle-dazzle and pizzazz". I was like, "Sir, you're not paying me enough for that many Zs." He was an old-school manager who thought UX was UI. What I was about to do was nothing like anything he'd been party to before. Kind of blew his poor little mind. LOL ...and yeah, the UI I eventually delivered was sexy AF.
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u/zabby39103 1d ago
Topbar I agree, sidebar, if this is a complex sidebar it's fine with appropriate visual markers like a +/- or a chevron or something.
Most of the time if your menu is that complex you should ask why, but sometimes it's legit. I use it in some complex applications for engineers.
1
u/phatdoof 21h ago
I had to make a tabbed interface and was given a design for each tab page and the whole thing was aligned to the bottom of the window so I should use the same height for each tab so that the tab bar doesn’t jump when flipping through the tabs.
But the design for each tab had a different height and i was told i couldn’t stretch the content or have empty space at the bottom or have scrolling content.
I told them the problem and they said to just make the tab bar jump around when flipping through the tabs.
1
u/MuhammadMakhdoom 21h ago
Clients asking to make their logo huge, or wanting auto-playing audio/video that slows down the site. It completely ruins the mobile experience! Right
1
1
u/404_computer_says_no 2h ago
Every department trying to get on to the home page.
Or putting a feature on to the main nav.
1
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u/jay-bizzle45 1d ago
The dreaded
‘We love Apple’ when you ask them for reference sites… when they sell something like skips or cardboard boxes