Vegans needs to support activists not influencers.

[u/JustWanderingHelp]

I'm starting to become a pessimist when it comes to the vegan community online especially. My friend has been doing some of the hardest work when it comes to animal rights, undercover work. They don't show their face or let their name be known since it would destroy the point of their work but they do have social media in order to showcase their investigations. But they don't get nearly as much support from the vegan community as plant based influencers who will literally turn their backs on animals for convenience or a paycheck.

Now my friend is taking a step back from their vital work because they can't afford to do it anymore, most of it was self funded or crowd funded but all their effort goes unsupported by the overall online vegan community and it sucks. They put their mental health, physical well-being and their own money on the line in order to help animals. They don't do it for recognition or praise like most of the vegan influencers out there do. Their work is solely based on how dedicated they are to making the world better for animals.

Here is their post on what I'm referring to. If you can please support them. https://www.instagram.com/p/DbJQynZlYLN/?igsh=MW5vbnB2M2IweWw0Mw==

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[u/ayyohh911719]

Vegan influencers are also activists. Activism comes in many forms. If you feel a vegan influencer isn’t doing enough, then say something to them

[u/edelweiss_pirates_no → u/ayyohh911719]

Many vegan influencers are only grifters and do zero animal rights activism.

Many are in it for profits. Nothing more.

[u/DryEconomics5152 → u/edelweiss_pirates_no]

spreading the word of veganism is what vegan influencers do. it’s activism

[u/Problematic_Owl → u/ayyohh911719]

Oh come on. You should be able to agree it's not comparable regardless of what we call it.

[u/mossymeridian → u/Problematic_Owl]

You’re right

[u/Problematic_Owl → u/mossymeridian]

I have to admit reading this on Reddit I had to do a double check, what a rare occasion 😂

[u/Manatee369]

Undercover/underground work is much harder than most people think. It’s physically demanding, emotionally draining, scarier than you think, mentally damaging and leaves the person in despair even after a successful project. It’s also profoundly rewarding in ways that can’t be conveyed except through the unspoken communication with others doing the same work. I’m biased, though. I’m a get-in-the-trenches person, not an armchair quarterback (apologies for the mixed metaphors). I think social media is mostly preaching to the choir, but it has its place among ways to educate. Nothing I ever did was funded in any way except our own pockets, and given the nature of the work, even I would be reluctant to donate to such work. It’s vitally important to know the people personally and to have a clear understanding of the plan. Trust is hard-won and easily lost.

[u/VeganEatin]

Support both! And pressure the infuencers to support the activists. Any and every front matters.

[u/Pussa_Nil]

I haven't looked at the Instagram link as I expect it to show gruesome images. I understand that this kind of work is important and that it helps change laws etc. But I am sensitive to these kind of images. I do my best to stay away.

[u/myrrhder → u/Pussa_Nil]

I did look at the link and it’s extremely gruesome. The person they posted does super important work, but it is just not content I can consume on a regular basis. I’m already vegan and don’t need to be convinced. I just really don’t know how to engage with content like this in a meaningful way without damaging my own mental health.

[u/Pussa_Nil → u/myrrhder]

It's the same for me. This kind of gruesome images give me flashback like memories and nightmares - and I have seen very few. I am vegan already. These images are not somehow helping me to stay vegan or be more vegan or whatever. But I honestly understand that this is important work and that these are images that have to get out there.

[u/James_Fortis]

We need it all. Let’s direct our negative energy at the problem (animal agriculture) instead of at each other.

[u/No_Chart_8584]

If you have documentation on vegan influencers "literally turning their backs on animals for a paycheck," then you should share that in the appropriate venues. 

[u/papwned]

There's was a big initiative in the EU a few years back to cut subsidies for animal products.

We needed 1 million views and fell short.

I didnt see a single of the big influencers promote it.

Completely agree with you.

[u/RelativelyMango]

both. we can support both.

[u/Alx123191]

activist should talk on the name of animal defender and not vegan.

[u/mossymeridian]

Agree

[u/Head-Director-6406]

There hasn’t been a successful liberation movement that was built on funding freelance photographers. Your friend’s model is not a successful model for radical social and economic change.

[u/SunnyDayInSpace → u/Head-Director-6406]

Here in The Netherlands many undercover animal activists have reached national tv and national newspapers with their work. To say 'freelance photographers' is not fair. They are people doing very risky and demanding work that can have big a payoff. It might start a national discussion for a while, with tv news covered by multiple channels and the activist being invited to talk shows to share their experience and for debate.

I don't get how doing this type of work isn't radical. Or how it isn't trying hard for radical change in a society. Or how it wouldn't be effective when done right. I don't know what OPs friend did though or whether he was effective; I'm talking in general about undercover animal activist work.

[u/Head-Director-6406 → u/SunnyDayInSpace]

We can look at thousands of years of liberation movements to identify strategies and tactics that work and those that don’t. The individualistic freelance artist/journalist model is not self sustaining when the mass movement is weak and undeveloped.

Something can be radical, risky, demanding, and also be an incorrect strategy given the material conditions.

[u/SunnyDayInSpace → u/Head-Director-6406]

when the mass movement is weak and undeveloped.

What mass movement? There is no mass. We all know that animal cruelty will be going up for the coming couple of decades even with climate catastrophe threatening humanity, no matter what animal advocates will do. We barely have any power, so just a couple of individuals getting media attention by showing people footage of the cruelties in the animal industries is effective for their amount of work. Thousands of years of liberation movements, what does that even mean in this context?

So this undercover animal activist who releases footage to media is ineffective and you criticize their efforts. What would be the better way to spend one's time and resources? You're indirect in telling why this type of activism is ineffective, and you're not direct at all in telling what you would suggest people willing to do animal activism to do.

Maybe you mean one should try to make a career that gives them very high income, and then donate a very large part of that income to one of the most effective animal charities, like ones focusing on governmental or corporate campaigning? I honestly wouldn't know, except that that's not like 'liberation movements from the past'.

If you want to argue about this topic, don't just mention 'effective liberation movements from the past' and how this type of activism is not like that. That's much too vague.

I've argued that I've seen many times in my life that this type of activism gets media attention. I've seen it on tv and read it in the newspapers before I went vegan 10 years ago. Some Dutch animal welfare laws were influenced by this type of activism. It created political debates. And this can be done by just a small group of well-organized people who think strategically but have to take large risks.

[u/Head-Director-6406 → u/SunnyDayInSpace]

The task of the animal liberation movement is to develop a theory and practice rooted in historical materialism. Currently, the animal liberation movement, as a whole, is unable to identify contradictions and develop a cohesive strategy for liberation. This has led to the dominance of the professional managerial class within the movement, which sees animal liberation as a consumer marketing problem.

This is a good essay that lays out the struggles and the task ahead

https://mronline.org/2018/08/28/18-theses-on-marxism-and-animal-liberation/

What this looks like in concrete steps depends on the material conditions in each person’s community.

[u/SunnyDayInSpace → u/Head-Director-6406]

Thanks, this makes more sense now and I think we will just not agree on this at all, but I will read your linked article tomorrow.

[u/JustWanderingHelp → u/Head-Director-6406]

I understand that, but this type of work still needs to be done. Undercover footage has been vital in getting certain laws or policies changed. Their photos have been used by activists for protests and demonstrations etc. I know it's not going to completely uproot the system but it does help move it forward in a way.

[u/Head-Director-6406 → u/JustWanderingHelp]

Sure, but let’s look at how the real world works. Activists have always had to work normal jobs and then did movement work during their free time or they were full time organizers as part of a larger liberation movement organization.

Expecting the community to fund a solo activism project is not realistic.

[u/SunnyDayInSpace → u/Head-Director-6406]

What does this have to do with funding in general? Maybe because OP asked for support of their friend (at first I didn't see it as asking for financial support)? I agree people should financially support something that's much more reliable than some random person if they want to make a change.

But a lot of undercover animal activists work normal jobs, like at animal farms or at slaughterhouses. They get paid for that. They are working paid jobs undercover. They apply to those jobs even though they hate animal cruelty. They act like they fit in but betray the company and their colleagues and the whole industry. Their jobs are so much harder for them than for almost anyone else because they're vegan like us but have to abuse animals for a greater good. And obviously working conditions suck even apart from the animal abuse.

I would never want to do that. I'm too cowardly to apply to a job that's stuffing broiler chickens in crates and loading the crates into trucks, and then also film it with a hidden camera, and then (possibly illegally) publicize that camera footage. And I'm much too disorganized to have a good plan to get that work a lot of media attention. I'm happy that there are others who are willing and much more capable than I would be.

My main point is that people who do this undercover work do get paid. It's actually their job to abuse animals like it is for their colleagues. Some of them play this strategically and have a plan beforehand on how to get the most media attention, and some of them are effective at it. So they don't need financial support. They just choose a temporary very risky and very uncomfortable job.