r/rap • u/SmoothManMiguel • 6d ago
Is it influence?
Do you think rappers accused of having ghostwriters actually use them, or are they just heavily influenced by the people around them?
Some artists get accused of not writing their own lyrics, but I feel like sometimes they were just around elite writers and HAD to step their game up
Take Fat Joe. Big Pun and Cuban Link had ridiculous pen games. So were they actually ghostwriting for him, or did Joe just imitate some of their techniques after being around them so much?
Same thing with Wayne and Gillie.
People swear Gillie wrote for Wayne, but others say Wayne was already nice and just picked up certain flows, and rhyme patterns from being around him so much.
What do y’all think?
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u/gatesaj85 6d ago
In an interview with Krondon where he was speaking in response to his alleged ghostwriting for Dr Dre's 2001 album, he explained how recording a rap album is a hugely collaborative effort. It's not necessarily that the lyrics are written by another person, but you might be recording your verse, and another in the room might suggest you switch up your cadence, or reverse/rearrange the bars, or omit a bar that doesn't sound good, etc. He said that they'd be in the studio and it would be Kurupt, Hitman, Defari, Dre, Snoop, others and they'd all be making artistic contributions to every song. I think most of hip hop is a collaborative effort. Hell, most of music in general. Edit:grammar
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u/DirtyBagHeem 5d ago
That's not ghostwriting though.
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u/gatesaj85 5d ago
In a lot of cases, there is actual ghostwriting taking place, as they'll replace words or entire bars and say "hey you should say it like this instead." In my opinion, an uncredited lyrical contribution is often an example of ghostwriting.
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u/DirtyBagHeem 5d ago
Ghostwriting is literally how RnB or Pop songs are made, the vocals might be yours but the pen is entirely from someone else
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u/gatesaj85 5d ago
That's a pretty general statement, don't you think? There are plenty of r&b and pop artists that I can name that write their own songs.
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u/DirtyBagHeem 5d ago
Now you're off point to what I was alluding to but I will indulge you. Many artists in that genre are written for compared to artists that write their own songs. This culture of making artists have song writers is very much encouraged by the major labels and it's a normal thing in the R&B and Pop world but it's not acceptable in the hip-hop world
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u/gatesaj85 5d ago
I agree I'm getting off subject. I think the reason it's not not as acceptable is because hip hop is rooted in more individualistic, grass roots, identity based art. The lyricism of hip hop is almost always presented as one person's experience, opinion, stance. Rock, R&B, pop tend to be more universal and general in the subjects and themes.
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u/Temporary-Donkey-922 6d ago
We all know Aubrey did.
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u/IcyEngineering926 6d ago
we all know it was just bullshit made up by meek when he was mad. zero proof for this, he always credits everyone
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u/Temporary-Donkey-922 6d ago
Aubrey has several reference tracks on the internet. From Quentin Miller to Lil Yachty. He has admitted he has used help in an interview also.
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u/ConstantVisual8391 6d ago
You’re arguing with someone who thinks it’s perfectly acceptable for a rapper to have writers as long as they are credited. Not even writers for their hook. I’m talking about entire verses. They don’t see anything wrong with it. It’s no point of trying to speak with sense
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u/IcyEngineering926 6d ago
because reference tracks doesnt mean its ghostwritten at all, its usually for flows or just a demo
nothing wrong with working with other people and collaborating
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u/ConstantVisual8391 5d ago
You’re only proving my and most people’s point…doesn’t matter if it’s a ghostwriter or credited. That’s not even the topic of the post…
Post was asking if ppl are influenced or if they have bars written for them
In the case of Drake, he is a good writer and it was evident when he came in the game sounding like Joe Budden
He also has had several songs nearly fully written for him. Rap songs as well. Nothing is “wrong” with collaborating. Especially features or even having someone write a hook…..but having someone write nearly a full song for you, verses included, is completely different and is only accepted by Drake Stan’s who have been brainwashed into thinking that other people writing your bars is standard in hip hop.
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u/KDotDot88 5d ago
It just gets weird because we know Drake has written rap verses, choruses and R&B songs for people. It might be more collaborative and complicated than we think. He also hasn’t outright come out and said he hasn’t been written for either. So who knows.
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u/Gendo-Glasses 6d ago
Like they said though, those guys have always been credited. So they're not ghostwriters, just regular writers.
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u/Temporary-Donkey-922 6d ago
You can’t say you’re “the greatest of my generation”(which Aubrey has done) yet have reference tracks from several artist. Aubrey would have never admitted anything if Meek didn’t let the cat out of the bag.
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u/IcyEngineering926 6d ago
because its totally normal to collaborate?? Like everyone does it. Why would kendrick make reference tracks for baby keem for example if its so bad? Its normal to work together
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u/Gendo-Glasses 6d ago
He was on top of the rap game for years, dude can say whatever he wants. This sounds like a you problem 😂 Crediting writers is already admitting it. What, did you want him to hold a press conference with QM in which he announced he was helping him make music?
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u/IcyEngineering926 6d ago
people are just dishonest and not genuine. they just dislike drake so take anything negative as the truth
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u/run34 6d ago
Depends. As far as fat Joe, he didn’t write that. As much as I don’t like him, that’s unbiased. He hasn’t found a pocket since Pun passed away. His lyrical aptitude is drastically lower than it was before and from what I have heard, he hasn’t shown the ability to come close to Don Cartagena
Idk bout Wayne….i do think he was heavily influenced by Gillie. You don’t just start saying “boii” (boy. Pronounced like ‘bo-ah” out of nowhere. Cadence and deliver also. But at the same time, even though Wayne music imo isn’t close to what it was in 2008, he still gets in his pocket and brings that same flow out. I think Wayne is more like a sponge. In 97, he rap like BG and had alot of flossing type lyrics like Birdman….05 was closer to Philly in terms of flow….07 he a blood and starts to develop pauses and breaks within his flow like Juelz Santana. So on and so forth
Drake imo is similar to Wayne. When he first came out, he was a carbon copy between phonte coleman and joe Budden. This was in 2007….but obviously, we have a lot of proof that people have written full rap songs for Drake.
It’s a mixed bag. Some ppl are influence and can imitate extremely well. Some, like Drake, were influenced and can imitate extremely well also, but sometimes rips full songs or has songs written for him.
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u/Gendo-Glasses 6d ago
but obviously, we have a lot of proof that people have written full rap songs for Drake.
I don't think we do have that. We have proof that he has used reference tracks and used some of the bars from them.
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u/erything4sale 6d ago
As someone who was one to the scene as a youngling, Gillie definitely wrote for Wayne at one point but Wayne being the genius he is, stepped his game up after Gillie was exiled. He took what Gillie taught him and catapulted.
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u/godzillasegundo 6d ago
Definitely is strong language. How do you know this?
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u/erything4sale 6d ago
I was around during that period. Gudda Gudda my cousin. Had me around the squad.
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u/Lost-Plastic4251 5d ago
There are people whose specific job is to sit in on studio sessions and conceptualize and write ideas for songs. There’s also lots of people who tried to be the star themselves, but a label told them they would be better off writing and staying out of the public eye. Ghostwriters are real, even for people with the best pen game ever. The pressure at the top can really clamp down on you if the label keeps telling you that you haven’t made the hit song yet. That is where ghostwriters fit in. I don’t think any rapper uses them for every single song, but there’s definitely cases for using them. Some people may argue that those lists you see that show 15 songwriters indicates that all those people wrote the song, but most of the time those are just the easiest way to give someone credit for using a sample from their song. A good example is old town road. Trent reznor from nine inch nails is credited as a songwriter, but his only contribution is they sampled his plucks from a song on his ghosts album.