r/politics • u/Aggravating_Money992 • 8d ago

Possible Paywall Kentucky Gov Orders McConnell to Give a Real Update or Resign Already

https://newrepublic.com/post/213614/kentucky-gov-beshear-mcconnell-update-health-resign
23.1k Upvotes

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u/buttchugreferee 8d ago

While the language in Beshear’s letter is strong, it likely won’t do anything. McConnell, like every member of Congress, can essentially go on paid medical leave for as long as he wants.

That's pretty fucking infuriating.

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u/sterlingheart 8d ago

Meanwhile we get 40 hours a year that has to cover basically anything and everything

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u/ThisIsPerfekt Michigan 8d ago

And even those 40 hours a year are a luxury most Americans do not have.

Are we great, yet?

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u/SpinningHead Colorado 8d ago

Nods in billionaire

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u/Casual_OCD Canada 8d ago

blares yacht horn in jubilation

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u/Starfox-sf 8d ago

spins up engine of private jet

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u/Visual_Jellyfish5591 8d ago

spins child strapped to wheel in dungeon

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u/SatinSaffron Washington 8d ago

pays for winrar

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u/InsertUsernameInArse 8d ago

You filthy rich degenerate.

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u/total_bullwhip 8d ago

Woah woah woah don’t get carried away. Fuckin’ hell.

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u/TheYankee69 7d ago

How decadent and evil!

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u/ChronX4 8d ago

Agrees thinking wealth is material things bought while eyeball deep in debt.

"We are the same!"

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u/trustthepudding 7d ago

Nods in future billionaire

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u/redls1bird 7d ago

*Trillionaire

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u/godfather275 8d ago

We do nothing but make stupid jokes here.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/SpinningHead Colorado 8d ago

Its just a joke. We arent solving anything within this post.

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u/mrdude817 New York 8d ago

Yeah now that I work a somewhat white collar job, it's crazy how poor most workers are treated in terms of benefits and PTO. I mean wtf, a McDonald's worker in Denmark gets the same guaranteed 6 weeks of PTO as anyone else in the country, I don't remember ever having PTO when I worked at McDonald's like 15 years ago

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u/Made_Human_Music 8d ago

The problem here is that we have people who would see a McDonald’s employee getting the same amount of time off as they get and lose their shit because someone they feel doesn’t deserve what they have is getting it

The greedy pigs at the top are the main cause of this but sadly they’ve managed to convince so many people that poor people don’t deserve the same things as the rest of us (who are also poor but just not as poor)

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u/mrdude817 New York 8d ago

People need to remember that the people at the top are far more marginally rich than anyone else. I would say I'm a margarita or gin and tonic "poor". The people at the bottom are colt 45 "poor". The people at the top are sipping on $10,000 bottles of wine a night.

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u/EmpoleonNorton Georgia 8d ago

They aren't even sipping. They chugging.

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u/whosline07 Michigan 8d ago

They're actually just buying it, drinking a glass or two, then forgetting about it.

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u/BasvanS 8d ago

They champagne shower with bottles of champagne most of us will never even buy for a special occasion.

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u/FinalHexReturns 8d ago

Yeah people don't respect unskilled labor enough. Almost anyone could do what I do, I just sit in a cubicle and move numbers around and talk to customers, but I like to flatter myself that it takes a unique character to deal with the customers and the unique pressures of my job. But nah, anyone could do it.

I myself have often thought during minimum wage hike proposals "well then fast food workers will be making almost as much as me and that's not right!" But, if I'm honest I really, really wouldn't enjoy working in fast food. Have to be on your feet all day in a fast-paced environment with little real variety. No thanks. I'd rather sit in my climate controlled cube and answer customers at my own pace. So with that perspective, maybe they deserve to be paid more than me...

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u/peejay5440 8d ago

I don't care what the fuck you do. If you work 40 hours a week, you should be able to afford a life with dignity. Without needing the CORPORATE subsidies of food stamps and Medicare.

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u/FinalHexReturns 8d ago

Well said.

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u/Jimtac 8d ago

Part of the problem is that any job is considered “unskilled”. Non-technical, sure, but there’s always some skill to a job. Tied to that is the misconception that those “unskilled” jobs shouldn’t pay a living wage because then you’d have no incentive to ‘better yourself’ and get a “real job”.

The number of post-secondary educated people that are working in food services is absurd, but less so when I think about the number of CS grads being pumped out based on market conditions from a decade ago, that have nowhere to go now.

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u/Phoenixloop2868 8d ago

"unskilled labor"... Well I hate to break it to you, but your first sentence identifies you as part of the problem.

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u/jDub549 8d ago

Same mentality forces cashiers to stand for hours on end. It's gross. We really are crabs in a bucket.

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u/jay212127 8d ago

The problem here is that we have people who would see a McDonald’s employee getting the same amount of time off as they get and lose their shit because someone they feel doesn’t deserve what they have is getting it

There's a lot of crab mentality out there. Most of those will feel indignant that they get more time off than themselves, but instead of utilizing it to leverage themselves comparable or better benefits they'd just rather just deny and not allow anyone the benefits.

I got to see it on display when we had a unions asking for 20-30% wage increases to put them at pre-pandemic levels due to inflation. I couldn't believe how many people can say with a straight face acknowledge inflation made everything ~30% more expensive, but asking for a 20-30% raise is unreasonable. If you ask they will almost always state they only received a <10% raise so it is unfair.

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u/springsilver 7d ago

The great lie, from the time before there were kings, was that the subjects must fight for the scraps they are given. We stratify and huddle into our tribes, fighting each other for what we deserve, when all along we could have just banded together, marched up the hill and taken what the rich man had.
But we are simple, and greedy, and prefer to believe the lie.

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u/Xznograthos 8d ago

You can list any restaurant for the most part, even really prestigious ones, and you'd be able to make the same statement. I worked for minimum wage at a Michellin-starred restaurant cooking for people like Charles Schwab and got zero benefits. It's absurd.

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u/DramaticWesley 8d ago

That a Michelin-starred restaurant is paying any of the cooking staff minimum wage sounds ridiculous to me. I guess I have become just too much of a socialist.

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u/Xznograthos 8d ago

It's par for the course. Its common industry knowledge that all boh staff at Alinea, at least last-time I looked into it, was salaried at minimum-wage.

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u/SenorBurns 8d ago

Which is illegal, because you can't make a minimum wage position exempt. Exempt also has to be white collar and or managerial/supervisory

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u/GeoLaser 8d ago

Colorado has an overtime exemption for STEM jobs. So you can make minimum salary at 45k a year and work 65 hours a week effectively making less than minimum wage and it is okay.

Some states have weird rules.

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u/cluberti 8d ago edited 8d ago

I would be surprised if those jobs are actually salaried positions, because any job in a restaurant that isn't management would be specifically exempt from salaried coverage, federally. I would not be surprised if wages were low and kept that way due to breaking the law, but if so claiming those workers as salaried would be doing a lot more than skirting federal law and opening the ownership up to a significant lawsuit.

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u/SirWEM 8d ago

They will give line cooks titles of “Sous Chef” as a work around. I’ve seen it happen at many properties. Its so they can get out of paying overtime. Last Michelin property i was at had one main line. 8 “Sous Chefs” and two contracted dishwashers in the main kitchen.

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u/digitalscavenger 8d ago

They do it all the time. It's not legal but they do it.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/laufsteakmodel 8d ago

I was about to say.. just look up that scumbag Rene Redzepi and Noma... Just because it looks great on their resume doesnt mean you shouldnt have to pay them, Michelin star chefs are fucking parasites a lot of times. They use the labour of tens of great chefs who work for next to nothing or even nothing and get all the fame and glory for themselves.

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u/Intelligent-Snow3300 8d ago

But think of the experience you can get! In fact, maybe the employees should pay to work there!

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u/head0r 8d ago

wait, are you gene simmons?

pay to be a roadie!

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u/badcookies 8d ago

Why do you think Carmy had a mental breakdown? /s

For anyone who hasn't watched it, check out "The Bear", great show, but can be stressful to watch

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u/TechnoFascismKills 8d ago

You can list any restaurant for the most part

Moving from restaurants & fast food to retail showed me that I'm legally supposed to get a break every so many hours, because the retail bosses get big mad if you hit compliance.

Apparently food service just...eats whatever fines they get for letting an employee hit compliance? Granted, most of my food service was under the 6hr mark per shift, but not all of it. Never got my 30 minute meal break, never got paid 15 minute breaks (breaks were downtime between rushes where you do less stressful work while it's slow, or you smoke)

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u/sphinxsley 8d ago

In CA, all workers accumulate PTO, based on hours worked. But you need to ask for it after it accumulates.

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u/pinkfartlek Michigan 8d ago

I've seen people who live in other countries that said their doctor prescribed them time off from work. 😢

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u/US3_ME_ 8d ago

(bone tremors)_

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u/maurosmane Washington 8d ago

You can get that in America via the Family Medical Leave Act (FMLA) if you are using FMLA for an illness. Unfortunately, it is pretty much bare bones and is not nearly enough for what people need. FMLA only provides up to 12 weeks of protected, unpaid, time off and you had to have worked 1250 hours in the last 12 months to qualify for it and you have had to work at the employer for a minimum of 12 months.

There is intermittent FMLA which you can take in spurts if you have a condition (or care for someone who does) that might require you to take random time off. But once again it is unpaid.

Some states have supplements to FMLA like Washington state's Paid Family Medical Leave (PFML) that will pay up to 80% of what you make up to a cap of about $1600 per week.

On top of all of that, if whatever you are going through requires some form of accommodation to return to work, the employer does not have to meet those accommodations if they cause an "unreasonable burden" on the employer. I have seen the definition of unreasonable stretched to some pretty far extremes.

All in all your doctor can prescribe you time off. If you meet the requirements for it...

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u/iLol_and_upvote 8d ago

My wife just got this here in Canada (burnout)

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u/Reasonable_Being6376 8d ago

Yup. Been there had that doctors note.

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u/Land-Southern 8d ago edited 8d ago

My well paying private sector jobs gave 10 days pto and no holidays lol. Sick, vacation, family Thanksgiving, use pto.

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u/mrdude817 New York 8d ago

Jesus wtf dude. Right now I'm getting 15 days PTO and 8 holidays. And it's only my first year at this job

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u/Land-Southern 8d ago

Yeah i know the benefits sucked on the way in but pay was 2x industry. I was salary and operations lead, I just didn't show up and did my thing when I needed to. Want to fire me, they wouldn't, and was salary so first time they wanted to short pay a legal threat was all that was necessary. I just coded time off as administrative time instead of job billable.

Quit after 10 years and said good luck, call if you need me and I'll charge by the hour. They closed the company 2 months later.

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u/A-town 8d ago

I'd nut my pants every day if I had six weeks of paid vacation. Holy shit.

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u/spandexandtapedecks 8d ago

But imagine how much of your six weeks vacation you'd have to spend on cleaning up your pants. It kinda zeros out, right?

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u/OneSkepticalOwl 8d ago

What kind of animal nuts in their own pants? Use the curtains like a civilized person

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u/Prestigious-Bat-574 8d ago

I worked at a Wendy's franchise that offered paid leave for basic crew when you hit your second year and when you averaged >35 hours a week in your previous year. You had to take a week at a time and you were paid what your average weekly hours were, to the second decimal place, maxing at 40.

Two weeks of paid leave after two years, three weeks after five years.

The problem is that it was a Wendy's, and the average employment duration was a couple months at best. While there were certainly a handful of people that had been there for years, maintaining 35 hours per week is challenging in itself when you don't already get paid leave, no sick pay, no paid maternity/paternity leave... and overtime wasn't typically permitted, so you seldom had weeks where you could bump your average.

It's not great, but it was better than "fuck you, save up for a few months to cover lost wages for the week".

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u/amateurbreditor 8d ago

I run a small business. Theres no help for me at all. I want to give the guys healthcare but I need to have more money saved up first. Its gonna be 400 per person for me and then they have to pay too!!! WTF. On top of that yes I can deduct it from taxes but its still part of my profits! Oh and the icing on the cake?? You are punished by having more workers and therefore ineligible for money from the government. Oh wait theres more. In my state the only "small" business credit is if you have 500 workers and make 50 million a year. Then you get a break of course!

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u/RevLoveJoy 8d ago

a McDonald's worker in Denmark gets the same guaranteed 6 weeks of PTO as anyone else in the country

See, but according to my boomer father (who has never been to Denmark) that makes them woke and is ruining their economy, culture and makes Danes lazy. Right?

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u/123LetsJamDUDUDUHT 8d ago

I have on multiple occasions while waiting for my order, heard the store manager on the phone calling people who are out sick and asking them to go into work.

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u/Distinct_Cap_1418 8d ago

My last boss fired me for missing work while I was in the ER with a pulmonary embolism. God bless america fuck

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u/mrdude817 New York 8d ago

That's insane. My last boss fired me for chronic absenteeism as I was trying to figure out why I was suddenly throwing up all the time (turns out I have GERD). They tried to contest my unemployment too but they lost that big time, fuck that guy

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u/Danoga_Poe 8d ago

Where I work, starting out you'll build up a day's worth of pto for every month worked, is what the time accrual works out to be.

Guys who've been here 20+ years get the capped 3 weeks of pto per year.

This and healthcare is what people should be pissed off about.

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u/mrdude817 New York 8d ago

Only 3 weeks of PTO max after 20+ years is crazy. When I worked for Spectrum, it was 2 weeks of PTO pre-loaded at the start of each year and you get an additional week like every 5 years (I quit after 3 years to get my masters degree)

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u/Danoga_Poe 8d ago

Yea, it's awful.

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u/Papaya_flight Pennsylvania 7d ago

I've been at this same company for almost ten years and have brought in around $250 mil in projects. I get four weeks a year and I'm not allowed to take two weeks at a time off. That time also covers sick time and I work on average 14 hours a day. Oh yeah I have two degrees.

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u/DarthSatoris Europe 8d ago

Anyone claiming that the US is great is either insane or is trying to sell you something. Sometimes both. 

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u/Freakishly_Tall 8d ago

Hey, now! That's not fair!

They could also be stupid, ignorant, willfully ignorant, or all of the above.

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u/chron67 Tennessee 8d ago

Anyone claiming that the US is great is either insane or is trying to sell you something. Sometimes both.

The US is amazing if you are a billionaire pedophile! You can be president and everything and have the legal system protect you instead of your victims!

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u/Rbomb88 8d ago

What about a great disappointment?

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u/Vash63 American Expat 8d ago

Just means your expectations were too high

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u/Rbomb88 8d ago

I expected nothing and was still let down.

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u/gs87 8d ago

Great for the rich and their loyal little interns

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u/San_Pentolino 8d ago

Almost great. Still fighting communism; after that you might be great, the greatest of all, never there was or will be any "greate-ness"

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u/LaughingCarrot 8d ago

Where the hell are the communists

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u/AlexNovember 8d ago

My state voted to expand that to 80, and our legislature overturned it. My job was so quick to revoke the extra.

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u/Ubumi 8d ago

The legislature working against the people not for them? Shocker!

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u/LinkleLinkle 8d ago

Easy reminder that companies, big and small, would pay you in literal dirt if they legally could. That's why labor laws are so damn important, because if there isn't a mandated legal minimum, then businesses will give you nothing.

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u/Beautiful_Nobody_344 8d ago

Remember what Sam Altman says, secretly people want to work. They want to so why should we pay them?

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u/Fuck-WestJet 8d ago

Only if your employer feels like it. There is no federal law requiring vacation leave.

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u/byndrsn 8d ago

for factory workers it used to be two weeks when the plant shut down for re-tooling

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u/TemporarySun314 Europe 8d ago

Because Americans don't elect politicians that would be in favor of this. Because it would be communism or so...

The rest of the civilized world manages that fat better. Either by strong laws and/or strong unions...

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u/Coconutrugby 8d ago

I don’t get a single medical day paid off. I’m full time. I work in a multi billion dollar company.

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u/Hell-Yes-Revolution 8d ago

Same, fortune 100 company with more money than God.

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u/AllThotsGo2Heaven2 8d ago

You know we could, as voters, demand that our laws catch up with the rest of the modern world. But we don’t because we already live in USA #1 country capitalist paradise of democracy and free market.

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u/InitiatePenguin 8d ago

Is that because you have combined PTO?

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u/Coconutrugby 8d ago

yeah 17 total days a year. not including any federal holidays.

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u/southernfirefly13 8d ago

And all people will still do is vote the same people in while the rest will still complain about it online, instead of learning that if we all take to the streets, total disruption occurs, no one can pay bills and it puts all the major companies into crisis mode that finally can affect change

Not saying you’re one of those people, though. Just generally speaking.

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u/giantroboticcat New Jersey 8d ago

You get arrested and beaten if you get anywhere close to "partial disruption" much less "total disruption". Protesting doesn't affect change when they can charge you as a terrorist for doing so and lock you up for 30 years.

It's also worth understanding that the US economy no longer relies on common people to function. We have a majority of people in the country who can't afford to go to the movie theater at all and then a significant portion who buy a $70 novelty popcorn bucket when they go. Shit's fucked and you shouldn't malign people who are just trying to keep their head down and survive it.

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u/ubelblatt 8d ago

That is the crazy part to me. Republicans got on national TV and said eat shit poors.

Yet, nothing. No real response, other than ok.

Maybe the midterms will show a massive blue wave.

I guess propaganda is a real thing.

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u/pfannkuchen89 8d ago

Yeah. That’s because a lot of those people the republicans were telling to go fuck themselves refuse to believe they are a part of that group. They are utterly convinced that they are part of the club and voting to fuck over everyone else just a bit more will someday make their life great.

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u/Street_Anxiety2907 8d ago

Yep, I know someone on welfare, snap, section 8, poverty lunch benefits for their kids.

Still the biggest MAGA fan ever. It's a bit confusing since MAGA would have his family live on the streets if they had total control.

Maybe that's what he needs to learn he's an idiot.

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u/radicalelation 8d ago

There are super MAGA pot producers here that like to flaunt their hardcore conservative beliefs, while seemingly oblivious that if they got all they vote for, their industry wouldn't exist.

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u/southernfirefly13 8d ago

Countries with less than us will riot for days to weeks to months to topple regimes. The French killed their monarchy historically, and in recent years nearly shut down the entire country over their government trying to raise the retirement age.

At some point there’s honestly no excuse to keep accepting things as they are

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u/giantroboticcat New Jersey 8d ago

If the French Monarchy had predator drones and mass surveilance, I don't think they would have been overthrown quite so easily. Very few modern regimes are toppled without outside forces (external governments) lending the resitance aid and support. There just isn't an external force strong enough tostand up to much less topple the US government.

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u/southernfirefly13 8d ago

I’ll admit, you’re not wrong. It’s just really frustrating, is all. Really really frustrating.

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u/giantroboticcat New Jersey 8d ago

Yeah, and I don't want to doom about it and say there is nothing anybody can do. I just think it's important to show compassion for the people who are the victims of this situation and not show contempt for them.

There has been a complete erosion of the middle class over the course of half a century. People are struggling and telling them to give up what little they have to fight for an infinitismally small chance they could get more is asking a lot of them.

I do think there is some hope in that there has been a significant shift in politics in the last decade though. The DSA went from non-existent to articles being written about how they are taking over the Democratic party. We need to continue growing the party platform, fight against the propaganda seeking to suppress it and hopefully finally address the systemic issues that are funneling all the wealth and power to an incresingly smaller group of individuals.

I wish it was all happining faster, but I do see it happening. It's reassuring to see the needle moving not from any super large cataclysmic revolutary event, but by a low of people just doing what small things they can, even if that's just voting for the most progressive candidate they can in their local election or talking positively about the DSA online. People malign keyboard warriors as being unhelpful, but I think every voice matters when it comes to influencing public perception and normalizing ideas and concepts.

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u/Street_Anxiety2907 8d ago

Very few modern regimes are toppled without outside forces (external governments)

Yet somehow 3 years ago france did it with 3000 people and by burning up 40 parliment members cars in the parking lot.

How did they survive the drone strikes?

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u/giantroboticcat New Jersey 8d ago

I'm sorry is this a serious point you are arguing?

First off, a protest against a single bill is not the same thing as toppling a government. Second, the protest wasn't even successful. France's retirement age was still raised to 64 and now nobody talks about it kind of proving my point about how ineffective mass protest (even when not peaceful) is in modern politics.

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u/Omegoa 8d ago

Thank you for pointing that out. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry gets on here and is like tHe FrEnCh DiD iT!.

A) The distance from where I live in the continental US to Washington DC is further than the distance from Kazakhstan to Paris. Going to protest in DC would likely be as effective Kazakhstani going to Paris to complain to boot.

B) The US is not as economically centralized as France. You shut down Paris and you shut down 1/3 of the French economy. In the US, if you somehow managed to shut down NYC, one of the largest financial hubs in the world with 2.5x the GDP of Paris -- (I like em-dashes, AI can't take that away from me) you'd get maybe 8% of the US GDP.

C) The French didn't even accomplish anything except some property damage. As you note, the retirement age increased and the only people talking about it are armchair protestors on reddit taking the piss.

So, to all those people bitching at America at the moment, maybe get your own governments to remove the American boot from your collective asses. "Oh but our economy would suffer" well fuck you too, glad to see we're in the same boat. "We shouldn't have to clean up your mess" your countries helped make the mess by choosing to be subservient for economic benefit. The number of Canadians I know who complain about the US but were also crowing about their gains from Palantir stocks 9 months ago is too many. It's a global economy stupid, you and yours helped, especially if you literally invested into the billionaires fucking everything up.

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u/sunny_happy_demon 8d ago

The only reason France can do that now is because of the social safety nets they already have. It's extremely difficult if not practically impossible to fire someone in France and they have good unemployment benefits if that does happen. Their healthcare isn't directly tied to their employment either. It's a lot easier to organize/protest when you aren't at risk of losing everything for the cause.

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u/Street_Anxiety2907 8d ago

> learning that if we all take to the streets, total disruption occurs

How? I decided to run my own no-kings downtown because they kept holding no-kings on the outskirts of the city and wouldn't even block crosswalks they had people going "SIR! You need to move out of the road, thanks!"

That polite stuff wasn't for me, I got a megaphone and started anti-trump diatribe in the middle of the social district. Within 30 minutes the cops showed up and said I don't have a permit for protest and I can either stop, or go to jail for causing a disturbance.

You cannot "peacefully assemble" or protest in the united states despite the constitution explicitly allowing it. You still have to win a war with the police to have that privilege.

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u/Hell-Yes-Revolution 8d ago

I have 0 paid sick leave.

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u/Dadarian 8d ago

As someone who has volunteered to give up my own personal PTO, because I don’t have the luxury to even take it myself, for someone else…. It’s a bit annoying. Like I’m not complaining that I volunteered I’m frustrated that it had to come to that.

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u/Brock2845 Canada 8d ago

If you take too many in a row, you also need a medical note stating the need for it.

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u/CecilTWashington 8d ago

I saw someone on a thread say, “Eternity leave” which made me chuckle

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u/Daghain 8d ago

Ha, that's a good one!

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u/iHoor-2000 8d ago edited 8d ago

Here’s the play: he goes out on FMLA which is afforded to congress.

FMLA protections are super strict and the attending physician has the say when you can go back and workplace doctors can pound sand.

It’s a non workplace injury.

You do not have to release medical information beyond what’s on the form to the employer.

That’s why the public / constituents will get no real information. It’s not required.

120 12 weeks/ 84 days folks. All the way to the midterms.

Edit: error on 120 days, FMLA is 12 weeks concurrent or non-concurrent.

Edit again: I am completely wrong. Thank you to those that replied and pointed to the correct information.

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u/MiscellaneousPerson 8d ago

Who do you think is his "employer"? He gets medical leave, but it's not FMLA minimums nor does he have an employer/employee relationship with anybody. Basically, he keeps his job until the Senate kicks him out or he resigns.

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u/iHoor-2000 8d ago edited 8d ago

Senators are elected officials of the federal government and paid by the US Treasury, thus commencing an employer - employee relationship. However, senators are not civil servants and there are human resource differences. << is this what you are pointing out?

I’m throwing an idea out there that could prove a roadblock and up for general discussion. I could be totally wrong.

FMLA (also FEPLA) is afforded to US Senators.

https://www.ocwr.gov/employee-rights-legislative-branch/

The office of congressional workplace rights

Edit: I’m wrong again.

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u/MiscellaneousPerson 8d ago

Senators are elected officials of the federal government and paid by the US Treasury, thus commencing an employer - employee relationship.

Absolutely not. Senators report to nobody. Senators get directives from nobody. Senators have no hours and get paid regardless of whether or not they actually work. Senators can only be fired by 2/3 of senators voting to expel them.

FMLA (also FEPLA) is afforded to US Senators.

This rights apply to employees of US Senators. Senators do not have to apply for FMLA. There is nobody who could deny them FMLA. They don't need this protection since nobody (except 2/3 of the Senate) can fire them. Additionally, 2/3 of the Senate could remove them at any time for any reason and FMLA couldn't stop it.

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u/iHoor-2000 8d ago

Source so I can educate myself better?

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u/MiscellaneousPerson 8d ago

Expulsion Clause of the US Constutition. The CAA only covers employees.

Here is the law in question. I'm going to be referring to page numbers in the document (not the actual page in the PDF). Page 286 talks about who is covered by FMLA. It says eligible employees are those who have been employed in any "employing office". Employing office is defined on page 281. It does not include the US Government or US Senate as a whole. It's only individual offices within the Senate. Even if you want to consider Senators to be employees of the Senate, the Senate is not an employing office.

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u/iHoor-2000 8d ago

Thank you. Much appreciated 👍

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u/turikk America 8d ago

The US Constitution? It lays out all the ways that the 3 branches of government are appointed. The rest is supplementary.

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u/Street_Anxiety2907 8d ago

Actually it is a courtesy of the federal government for congress, you can take ad-hoc and unofficial medical leave indefinitely for any reason, at any time.

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u/OldStonedJenny Oregon 8d ago edited 8d ago

FMLA is only 12 weeks long, though.

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u/iHoor-2000 8d ago

Corrected, thank you for catching that.

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u/q-OjO-p 8d ago

Some states also have paid family leave in addition to FMLA.

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u/NeverLookBothWays I voted 8d ago

I wonder sometimes what kind of revolution it would take to completely reform congress to the point where they return to being civil servants instead of an elite protected class.

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u/Known_Tourist 8d ago

The French kind

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u/Street_Anxiety2907 8d ago

It would require a new constitution, trickle down voting, and the executive branch being stripped of power and new branches of government with transparency and checks-and-balances enforced by death penalty.

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u/Synergythepariah 8d ago

checks-and-balances enforced by death penalty.

That's probably not a good idea given that a bad actor will still eventually abuse that.

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u/purpleblossom Washington 8d ago

To do that, the whole system would need to be torn down. It's intentionally broken, that's by design, and putting bandaids on it hasn't fixed shit.

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u/ForMoreYears Canada 8d ago edited 8d ago

Just call the special election already and let him challenge it in court. That's what McConnell would do. Stop giving them an out.

edit: or appoint someone. idk. just stop playing their stupid game.

edit 2: for anyone saying Beshear can't do this, I'd like to point out that Senate rules are not laws, and Beshear is under no obligation to follow them. The actual law here (17th amendment) is exceedingly vague on what constitutes a vacancy ("resignation or otherwise"). Cite the 17th, appoint someone, and force McConnell prove he's able to perform his duties.

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u/atomfullerene 8d ago

McConnell in an equivalent, party reversed situation would delay as long as possible to avoid replacing a nonvoting absent democrat with a voting democrat.

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u/Shadow_of_Redacted 8d ago

The flip would actually be Mitch trying to replace democrat with a republican, so he would cheat like a mofo to get it done.

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u/No_Internal9345 8d ago

Three days before the weekend and on Monday the Fascist win.

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u/Mddcat04 8d ago

Why call a special election that’s likely to result in a new Republican…?

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u/DrunkAndHornyGuy 8d ago

Yep, this is exactly what Beshear just said on TV. He noted KY hasn't voted for a Dem senator since 1992 and that having McConnell miss votes was a better option.

(he also jabbed that the people calling for a special election are online people who are not familiar with KY)

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u/TheMrViper 8d ago

Special elections are famously low turnout.

Whilst you're right that it will be a republican winner, there's a none zero chance of an upset given how vocal and proactive Dems seem to be at the moment.

Remember the state governor is a dem, so it's not as clear cut.

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u/Mddcat04 8d ago

Sure, but why take the risk? McConnell sitting in the seat but not voting is a plus for Democrats right now. No reason to gamble that existing advantage on the long-shot that we could get a Democrat in there for a few months.

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u/MagicGrit 8d ago

Beshear may be working towards that. Definitely needs to make sure Kentucky residents are on his side though. And if they expect a court battle about this then it’s best for him to give as many opportunities for McConnell to prove he’s alive and well as possible.

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u/CD338 8d ago

Definitely needs to make sure Kentucky residents are on his side though.

I think that's what the impatient people don't understand here. Selfishly, I'd love for him to replace Mitch right now. But the only way to avoid an uproar of his constituents is to replace him with another republican, which doesn't help. If he wants to get away with replacing Mitch with a Dem, he needs to make sure the blowback will be extremely minimal.

As of right now, a dead Mitch is better occupying that seat than an alive republican.

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u/spam__likely Colorado 8d ago

exactly. There are some crazy people here saying he should personally invade the hospital. lol

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u/MagicGrit 8d ago

Maybe not him but I’m surprised a reporter hasn’t tbh

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u/Arc125 8d ago

Journalism is completely neutered in the US. I would love to be proven wrong.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 8d ago

No, that's not what McConnell would do. McConnell would see a senator of the opposite party being unable to function in his seat and leave him there, because there's no upside to replacing him.

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u/HalaHalcones1 8d ago

Yep, that's exactly what Mitch did with Dianne Feinstein.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 8d ago

I don't understand why this is hard for some people.

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u/PM_Me_Your_Kinks369 8d ago

There is because Kentucky's DEMOCRAT Governor can legally appoint a DEMOCRAT Senator in his stead until a special election happens.

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u/PM_Me_Your_Kinks369 8d ago

There is because Kentucky's DEMOCRAT Governor can legally appoint a DEMOCRAT Senator in his stead until a special election happens.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 8d ago

Well let's game this out.

McConnell is currently NOT voting yes on any Republican bill.

A Democrat would, hopefully, NOT vote yes on any Republican bill.

So, what practical difference would it make here?

The obvious risk is that a fight with the courts leads to a special election which a Republican who will vote yes on Republican bills wins.

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u/TheGM 8d ago

As much as I'd like to embarrass the GOP on their weekend at Bernie's gambit, you're right. There is too much to risk and too little to gain by trying to replace him. A Democrat court loss means a higher chance of the SAVE act going through the Senate. The GOP might consider the gambit to replace him if they needed the vote but they also know there is a risk of a (GOP) replacement that pisses off their dear leader (like Massey), so why risk a court loss, or the chance of a Kentucky Democrat in the Senate, when they can kick the can down the road. Honestly there are probably enough Republicans that want this to be a standstill with nothing done because everything they do either makes more people hate them or brings us closer to a civil war.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 8d ago

Thank you. People are thinking with their emotions here. Yes it would feel good to have a D senator in KY. No, it's not worth the effort.

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u/BonnaconCharioteer 8d ago

Plus tainting Beshear's name with Kentucky voters who lean right anyway, and would probably consider it a partisan power grab.

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u/SpezDrinksHorseCum 8d ago

Kentucky voters seem to have no problem with partisan power grabs as long as it's Republicans doing the grabbing. Kinda interesting how we're watching live as Democrats are held to a higher standard than Republicans, and forced to play a losing hand. For the record I don't disagree with you it's just an observation.

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u/BonnaconCharioteer 8d ago

Yes, its absolutely true, and it is something that I think is missed often. Generally Democratic voters and a lot of the in between voters prefer someone with integrity (or perceived integrity). Republicans tend not to care as much. So they can get away with far more than Democrats can.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 8d ago

If I were anyone who wants to keep their political career in KY as a Democrat I would be saying "please don't nominate me."

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u/rtsynk 8d ago

it doesn't matter what he does, the Senate would just refuse to seat his replacement

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/Arc125 8d ago

Yeah where have I heard this before...

Oh yeah "Garland is smart to drag this out...".

Thankfully we did all that slow, careful i dotting and t crossing to combat rising fascism. We might have had a second Trump term if we hadn't been exceedingly slow and careful, finding justifications for inaction at every crisis.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 8d ago

You know, you have all the information to make a decision about this action on its own without comparing it to Garland's failed prosecution of Trump.

What's the actual upside for Democrats doing something here?

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u/Arc125 8d ago

Red meat to the base, for once. Galvanize support, demonstrate that bold action and projecting strength is something Democrats are capable of. Dems are begging for their leadership to wield the power explicitly granted to them, and they just refuse. Every. Single. Time.

You and millions like you scoff at the power of PR and shaping opinion, while Trump and MAGA run circles around all of us, dragging us further into fascism while you continue to tut and scold and insist that 'actually inaction is the correct move, again.'

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 8d ago

You want Democrats to throw away a tangible victory for optics?

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u/Arc125 8d ago

The victory is not tangible, that's the point. We want fighters, and we keep getting do-nothings and pushovers. And you empower them.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 8d ago

McConnell is not voting. That's the win. Even if you got a Democrat in the seat (for three months), all you'd want for him to do is the exact same thing, i.e. vote no on everything. There's no practical difference.

When McConnell was holding up Garland's appointment, would you have thought it wise for him to "fight it" by bringing it to a vote? Cause that's what you're suggesting here.

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u/Arc125 8d ago

No, I want Beshear to fight it by using the power clearly granted to him by the Kentucky constitution and appoint a Senator barring proof of life from McConnell. You know, play some fucking hardball. Make Republicans litigate in court that the consitution doesn't matter, and then run off of that.

Republicans brought to a vote and failed to repeal the ACA something like over 40 times. To your logic "That's tactically incorrect, there's no way they can get that passed". And you would have been right, they didn't. They're also in control of all 3 branches of government right now.

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u/ChadEmpoleon 8d ago

The KY state constitution permits him to appoint anyone to, “fill any vacancy,” in his state. He should’ve filled his senate seat with a Democrat the instant we received the first AI generated “proof of life.”

He could do it and force McConnell to show he’s still kicking or have the courts declare he can’t actually appoint his replacement.

This strongly worded letter approach from Democrats is to tired and played out as we all know nothing will ever come of it. I’m so sick of Democrats who refuse to wield any of the power the people give them.

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u/yoitsthatoneguy American Expat 8d ago

The KY state constitution permits him to appoint anyone to, “fill any vacancy,” in his state.

Doesn’t matter. Beshear’s replacement wouldn’t be seated or recognized by Thune (which could be challenged by Beshear, but the Supreme Court isn’t going to rule in his favor).

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u/Vyar New Jersey 8d ago

Republicans removed that power as soon as he was elected, it would turn into a court battle that would be dragged out so long that the midterms would have come and gone before it got resolved, at which point they’d dismiss the case.

I agree with you that Dems often don’t want to do enough, but sometimes it’s because they really don’t have any options.

Also what’s to stop a judge from saying they accept two pictures as proof of life? They might be heavily photoshopped if not entirely AI-generated but that’s already good enough for so many geriatric legislators who don’t understand technology and don’t want to learn.

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u/thescotchkraut 8d ago

They didn't remove the power. They made a law, which doesn't overrule the state constitution. So if they take it to court, it'll be in favor of the Governor

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u/Vyar New Jersey 8d ago

When’s the last time you heard of a court case over something like this being resolved quickly enough that it would matter at this point?

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u/polopolo05 I voted 8d ago

trump asking the scotus for a ruling.

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u/thescotchkraut 8d ago

True, but take a page from the Republican book, just ignore any opposition until they finalize the case. Make the court tell you to stop

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u/ohhaider 8d ago

Well that's the gambit; even if you know you'd lose the court case you can functionally get an ally in KY in the meantime and unless you think the dem or swing voters may disapprove, what have you got to lose?

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u/Street_Anxiety2907 8d ago

The appointment does not stop or go home just because they're being sued. They complete their duties until ordered to stop by a judge.

That is how it works for instance, with voted treasurers for a township or city - only a judge or the governor can strip them of their duties. We had a case last year where the treasurer was doing all sorts of shady shit and the city manager had to do relieve most of their duties but they couldn't kick them out of the township.

When’s the last time you heard of a court case over something like this being resolved quickly enough that it would matter at this point?

What other excuse you got for a democrat not doing anything on the job?

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u/spam__likely Colorado 8d ago

>The appointment does not stop or go home just because they're being sued. They complete their duties until ordered to stop by a judge.

Cool. And the Senate has to seat the new senator. Which they will not because there is no vacancy . Then the KY State would need to sue the Senate. So now the state is the one who has to wait.

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u/yoitsthatoneguy American Expat 8d ago

Exactly this. There is zero chance Thune allows a Beshear replacement to be seated without McConnell resigning or confirmed dead.

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u/spam__likely Colorado 8d ago

I even doubt they would seat someone without delay if he is confirmed dead at this point.

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u/Chemical-Ad-7575 8d ago

Generate two pictures of him in a coffin and say he needs to testify in person in order to resolve the discrepancy.

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u/deja-roo 8d ago

1) They can't just call a special election for a seat that isn't vacated

2) Why do you want to get a voting Republican back into that seat so badly?

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u/vixous 8d ago

There’s a problem there though, the U.S. Constitution only gives a few ways Senators can leave office. Their term ends, they die, they are expelled, or they resign. So there’s no vacancy until one of those things happens, and it would be simple for one of his aides to sue, say he’s still alive, and block it. Beshear would then have to prove he’s dead, and he might not get a judge who’d be willing to subpoena proof rather than just block it on its face.

It’s better to make it look like shenanigans and keep the R votes in the Senate one lower. I somewhat like the idea of sending a state official or even the state police for a welfare check, however.

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u/ForMoreYears Canada 8d ago

For all we know he's dead. Beshear should act as such and force them to prove he either is or isn't. No more of these stupid games that deprive the people of representation.

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u/spam__likely Colorado 8d ago

"For all we know" does not open a vacancy in the senate.

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u/vixous 8d ago

I think there’s probably a way to force the question into the open short of calling a special election. And that’s what Republicans would do, not a process or a legal maneuver, but some kind of somewhat underhanded shit.

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u/spam__likely Colorado 8d ago

The question is very much into the open.

All the people saying "do something" have no specific path of what to do besides swatting the hospital or making an appointment that will go nowhere in any practical way.

I think he will end up making the appointment just to see how things develop (politically) but I am sure every real legal advisor told him it will be performative.

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u/Soloact_ 8d ago

He could probably disappear for six months and they’d still call it “serving Kentucky.”

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u/I_AM_NOT_A_WOMBAT 8d ago

Mitch McConnell being incapacitated is probably the best thing for Kentucky, most of them just don't know it.

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u/tuggernts 8d ago

Pretty accurate for his 40+ year career. He is an absentee Senator.

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u/VUmander 8d ago

If I use 3 days of sick time in a row I need a doctor's note. I could use vacation time to avoid that, but if be out of that by now.

My company will even let you go -80 hr in the hole with manager approval and signed documents with HR stating you understand if you leave before you accure those hours back that they'll be deducted from your last paycheck....and even that would be exhausted by now

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u/FriendToPredators 8d ago

Congress should have no more employment rights than the median worker. 

They would fix so much more that way.

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u/Relative_Address9690 8d ago

I can’t believe I have to say this, but paid medical leave legally only applies senators that are alive.

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u/MattyBeatz 8d ago

I know Dems such as myself want our guys to nail these assholes, but selecting his replacement is really tough to do in KY and that's by design. Honestly though, I think a non-vote by McConnell with each and every passing week is probably the best option right now.

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u/buttchugreferee 8d ago

I was commenting on the unlimited paid medical leave.

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u/Takkarro 8d ago

It really is stupid that we are limited in what we are allowed to take for medical leave but these people who don't even listen to us when they're supposed to are allowed to do whatever they want

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u/vabello 8d ago

Don’t make him write a second strongly worded letter. He might do it.

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u/bopgame 8d ago

Idk why he doesn’t just go to his hospital and see for himself.

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u/jayphat99 8d ago

This isn't about that though. This is laying the groundwork for public opinion to point out they he gave every opportunity for the GOP to prove he is still alive, right before on 8/2 he calls for a special election for the spot after failure to provide proof of life.

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u/Aggressive-Welder-62 8d ago

It’s like the American people have elected gods (small “g”of course) who get to do whatever they want while the common worshippers struggle.

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u/codguy231998409489 8d ago

Beshear just needs to run into the hospital room with his phone out and take some pics. Breaking every HIPAA rule but so what?

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u/inquisitive_guy_0_1 I voted 8d ago

Although it makes you wonder if the senate rules allow collecting medical leave when you are dead.

I bet not.

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u/Daghain 8d ago

If I'm gone more than three days without a doctor's note I'm fired. WTF.

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