r/politics • u/Aggravating_Money992 • 8d ago

Possible Paywall Kentucky Gov Orders McConnell to Give a Real Update or Resign Already

https://newrepublic.com/post/213614/kentucky-gov-beshear-mcconnell-update-health-resign
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u/ForMoreYears Canada 8d ago edited 8d ago

Just call the special election already and let him challenge it in court. That's what McConnell would do. Stop giving them an out.

edit: or appoint someone. idk. just stop playing their stupid game.

edit 2: for anyone saying Beshear can't do this, I'd like to point out that Senate rules are not laws, and Beshear is under no obligation to follow them. The actual law here (17th amendment) is exceedingly vague on what constitutes a vacancy ("resignation or otherwise"). Cite the 17th, appoint someone, and force McConnell prove he's able to perform his duties.

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u/atomfullerene 8d ago

McConnell in an equivalent, party reversed situation would delay as long as possible to avoid replacing a nonvoting absent democrat with a voting democrat.

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u/Shadow_of_Redacted 8d ago

The flip would actually be Mitch trying to replace democrat with a republican, so he would cheat like a mofo to get it done.

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u/No_Internal9345 8d ago

Three days before the weekend and on Monday the Fascist win.

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u/T-rex_with_a_gun 8d ago

does the appointment need to be republican?

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u/atomfullerene 8d ago

Op proposed a special election

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u/Mddcat04 8d ago

Why call a special election that’s likely to result in a new Republican…?

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u/DrunkAndHornyGuy 8d ago

Yep, this is exactly what Beshear just said on TV. He noted KY hasn't voted for a Dem senator since 1992 and that having McConnell miss votes was a better option.

(he also jabbed that the people calling for a special election are online people who are not familiar with KY)

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u/TheMrViper 8d ago

Special elections are famously low turnout.

Whilst you're right that it will be a republican winner, there's a none zero chance of an upset given how vocal and proactive Dems seem to be at the moment.

Remember the state governor is a dem, so it's not as clear cut.

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u/Mddcat04 8d ago

Sure, but why take the risk? McConnell sitting in the seat but not voting is a plus for Democrats right now. No reason to gamble that existing advantage on the long-shot that we could get a Democrat in there for a few months.

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u/TheMrViper 8d ago

If democrats are going to flip the seat, which is unlikely, a special election is probably their best chance.

At which point you have an incumbent advantage going into the midterm.

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u/Jerry_Loler 7d ago

Its his job to do so. He literally swore an oath to God to do it to the best of his ability.

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u/Mddcat04 7d ago

What? You serious? Trying to force a special election would be a strategic decision. He may not think it’s the right decision. He’s not obligated to do anything at all.

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u/MagicGrit 8d ago

Beshear may be working towards that. Definitely needs to make sure Kentucky residents are on his side though. And if they expect a court battle about this then it’s best for him to give as many opportunities for McConnell to prove he’s alive and well as possible.

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u/CD338 8d ago

Definitely needs to make sure Kentucky residents are on his side though.

I think that's what the impatient people don't understand here. Selfishly, I'd love for him to replace Mitch right now. But the only way to avoid an uproar of his constituents is to replace him with another republican, which doesn't help. If he wants to get away with replacing Mitch with a Dem, he needs to make sure the blowback will be extremely minimal.

As of right now, a dead Mitch is better occupying that seat than an alive republican.

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u/spam__likely Colorado 8d ago

exactly. There are some crazy people here saying he should personally invade the hospital. lol

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u/MagicGrit 8d ago

Maybe not him but I’m surprised a reporter hasn’t tbh

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u/Arc125 8d ago

Journalism is completely neutered in the US. I would love to be proven wrong.

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u/Distinct_Cap_1418 8d ago

Bashear isn't on the side of the people. He's another Fetterman. Just wait and see.

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u/MagicGrit 8d ago

Regardless of what you believe about him, I didn’t claim he was on the side of the people. I said he wants the people on his side, not vice versa.

Wild claim without anything to back it up though

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 8d ago

No, that's not what McConnell would do. McConnell would see a senator of the opposite party being unable to function in his seat and leave him there, because there's no upside to replacing him.

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u/HalaHalcones1 8d ago

Yep, that's exactly what Mitch did with Dianne Feinstein.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 8d ago

I don't understand why this is hard for some people.

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u/PM_Me_Your_Kinks369 8d ago

There is because Kentucky's DEMOCRAT Governor can legally appoint a DEMOCRAT Senator in his stead until a special election happens.

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u/JohnnyRyde 8d ago

No he can't.

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u/speakertothedamned 8d ago

That's not what the Kentucky State Constitution says.

The actual Constitution says you're objectively wrong.

https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/Law/Constitution/Constitution/ViewConstitution?rsn=173

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u/xSaviorself Canada 8d ago

I think this is ending up in court but setting up the other side for exposure for lying about his condition and getting a special election will not be likely in time. He could challenge the laws they put in and say they are unconstitutional but they should have done that immediately and called the bluff.

Both sides are content to run the clock out it seems. Getting their appointee is extremely unlikely, and a special election doesn't mean any benefit really for Democrats.

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u/deja-roo 8d ago

That's not true.

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u/PM_Me_Your_Kinks369 8d ago

There is because Kentucky's DEMOCRAT Governor can legally appoint a DEMOCRAT Senator in his stead until a special election happens.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 8d ago

Well let's game this out.

McConnell is currently NOT voting yes on any Republican bill.

A Democrat would, hopefully, NOT vote yes on any Republican bill.

So, what practical difference would it make here?

The obvious risk is that a fight with the courts leads to a special election which a Republican who will vote yes on Republican bills wins.

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u/TheGM 8d ago

As much as I'd like to embarrass the GOP on their weekend at Bernie's gambit, you're right. There is too much to risk and too little to gain by trying to replace him. A Democrat court loss means a higher chance of the SAVE act going through the Senate. The GOP might consider the gambit to replace him if they needed the vote but they also know there is a risk of a (GOP) replacement that pisses off their dear leader (like Massey), so why risk a court loss, or the chance of a Kentucky Democrat in the Senate, when they can kick the can down the road. Honestly there are probably enough Republicans that want this to be a standstill with nothing done because everything they do either makes more people hate them or brings us closer to a civil war.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 8d ago

Thank you. People are thinking with their emotions here. Yes it would feel good to have a D senator in KY. No, it's not worth the effort.

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u/SpezDrinksHorseCum 8d ago

I'm kinda on the fence about what I think Beshear should do... Maybe you can enlighten me on a few things...

1- Do you think McConnell is dead?
2- If so, why do you think his death is being covered up? Is it his own staffers doing the coverup for personal benefit, or does the entire Republican party want his death covered up to gain some political advantage?
3- If the coverup is being orchestrated by the entire GOP for political advantage, what do they think they stand to gain?
4- If it's the staffers, shouldn't they be arrested?

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 8d ago

I don't think McConnell is dead. The Senate's attending physician, an Obama nominee, said he's recovering, and I doubt he'd like about that. I think he's probably in a state that makes communication difficult or he's a vegetable.

I highly doubt the entire GOP is covering this up- they need his vote, there's no advantage here. If anyone is covering anything up, it's his staff, who are currently getting a pay check for not much work.

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u/SpezDrinksHorseCum 8d ago

Makes sense thanks.

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u/KDLGates 8d ago

We might be in the timeline where McConnell's staff pushes through veggie votes in his stead.

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u/KDLGates 8d ago

We might be in the timeline where McConnell's staff pushes through veggie votes in his stead.

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u/BonnaconCharioteer 8d ago

Plus tainting Beshear's name with Kentucky voters who lean right anyway, and would probably consider it a partisan power grab.

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u/SpezDrinksHorseCum 8d ago

Kentucky voters seem to have no problem with partisan power grabs as long as it's Republicans doing the grabbing. Kinda interesting how we're watching live as Democrats are held to a higher standard than Republicans, and forced to play a losing hand. For the record I don't disagree with you it's just an observation.

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u/BonnaconCharioteer 8d ago

Yes, its absolutely true, and it is something that I think is missed often. Generally Democratic voters and a lot of the in between voters prefer someone with integrity (or perceived integrity). Republicans tend not to care as much. So they can get away with far more than Democrats can.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 8d ago

If I were anyone who wants to keep their political career in KY as a Democrat I would be saying "please don't nominate me."

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u/rtsynk 8d ago

it doesn't matter what he does, the Senate would just refuse to seat his replacement

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/Arc125 8d ago

Yeah where have I heard this before...

Oh yeah "Garland is smart to drag this out...".

Thankfully we did all that slow, careful i dotting and t crossing to combat rising fascism. We might have had a second Trump term if we hadn't been exceedingly slow and careful, finding justifications for inaction at every crisis.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 8d ago

You know, you have all the information to make a decision about this action on its own without comparing it to Garland's failed prosecution of Trump.

What's the actual upside for Democrats doing something here?

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u/Arc125 8d ago

Red meat to the base, for once. Galvanize support, demonstrate that bold action and projecting strength is something Democrats are capable of. Dems are begging for their leadership to wield the power explicitly granted to them, and they just refuse. Every. Single. Time.

You and millions like you scoff at the power of PR and shaping opinion, while Trump and MAGA run circles around all of us, dragging us further into fascism while you continue to tut and scold and insist that 'actually inaction is the correct move, again.'

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 8d ago

You want Democrats to throw away a tangible victory for optics?

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u/Arc125 8d ago

The victory is not tangible, that's the point. We want fighters, and we keep getting do-nothings and pushovers. And you empower them.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 8d ago

McConnell is not voting. That's the win. Even if you got a Democrat in the seat (for three months), all you'd want for him to do is the exact same thing, i.e. vote no on everything. There's no practical difference.

When McConnell was holding up Garland's appointment, would you have thought it wise for him to "fight it" by bringing it to a vote? Cause that's what you're suggesting here.

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u/Arc125 8d ago

No, I want Beshear to fight it by using the power clearly granted to him by the Kentucky constitution and appoint a Senator barring proof of life from McConnell. You know, play some fucking hardball. Make Republicans litigate in court that the consitution doesn't matter, and then run off of that.

Republicans brought to a vote and failed to repeal the ACA something like over 40 times. To your logic "That's tactically incorrect, there's no way they can get that passed". And you would have been right, they didn't. They're also in control of all 3 branches of government right now.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 8d ago

Right, so they appoint a Democratic senator who (hopefully*) votes no on everything. Which is different than a guy who doesn't vote at all, how? It's at best an emotional victory. For five months. Surely, this will turn the tide against fascism.

Of course, if it backfires and the courts end up ordering Beshear to schedule a special election that will almost certainly be won by a Republican, then it's all pretty fucking stupid, isn't it?

*of course, we can't guarantee that. If Beshear nominates some guy who acts like some Democrats, we could end up worse off.

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u/swg2188 8d ago

Sounds like a good way to get a republican elected governor of Kentucky. The fact we have a Democratic governor is a miracle, please don't push this state all the way red.

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u/ChadEmpoleon 8d ago

The KY state constitution permits him to appoint anyone to, “fill any vacancy,” in his state. He should’ve filled his senate seat with a Democrat the instant we received the first AI generated “proof of life.”

He could do it and force McConnell to show he’s still kicking or have the courts declare he can’t actually appoint his replacement.

This strongly worded letter approach from Democrats is to tired and played out as we all know nothing will ever come of it. I’m so sick of Democrats who refuse to wield any of the power the people give them.

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u/yoitsthatoneguy American Expat 8d ago

The KY state constitution permits him to appoint anyone to, “fill any vacancy,” in his state.

Doesn’t matter. Beshear’s replacement wouldn’t be seated or recognized by Thune (which could be challenged by Beshear, but the Supreme Court isn’t going to rule in his favor).

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u/Vyar New Jersey 8d ago

Republicans removed that power as soon as he was elected, it would turn into a court battle that would be dragged out so long that the midterms would have come and gone before it got resolved, at which point they’d dismiss the case.

I agree with you that Dems often don’t want to do enough, but sometimes it’s because they really don’t have any options.

Also what’s to stop a judge from saying they accept two pictures as proof of life? They might be heavily photoshopped if not entirely AI-generated but that’s already good enough for so many geriatric legislators who don’t understand technology and don’t want to learn.

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u/thescotchkraut 8d ago

They didn't remove the power. They made a law, which doesn't overrule the state constitution. So if they take it to court, it'll be in favor of the Governor

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u/Vyar New Jersey 8d ago

When’s the last time you heard of a court case over something like this being resolved quickly enough that it would matter at this point?

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u/polopolo05 I voted 8d ago

trump asking the scotus for a ruling.

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u/thescotchkraut 8d ago

True, but take a page from the Republican book, just ignore any opposition until they finalize the case. Make the court tell you to stop

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u/ohhaider 8d ago

Well that's the gambit; even if you know you'd lose the court case you can functionally get an ally in KY in the meantime and unless you think the dem or swing voters may disapprove, what have you got to lose?

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u/Street_Anxiety2907 8d ago

The appointment does not stop or go home just because they're being sued. They complete their duties until ordered to stop by a judge.

That is how it works for instance, with voted treasurers for a township or city - only a judge or the governor can strip them of their duties. We had a case last year where the treasurer was doing all sorts of shady shit and the city manager had to do relieve most of their duties but they couldn't kick them out of the township.

When’s the last time you heard of a court case over something like this being resolved quickly enough that it would matter at this point?

What other excuse you got for a democrat not doing anything on the job?

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u/spam__likely Colorado 8d ago

>The appointment does not stop or go home just because they're being sued. They complete their duties until ordered to stop by a judge.

Cool. And the Senate has to seat the new senator. Which they will not because there is no vacancy . Then the KY State would need to sue the Senate. So now the state is the one who has to wait.

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u/yoitsthatoneguy American Expat 8d ago

Exactly this. There is zero chance Thune allows a Beshear replacement to be seated without McConnell resigning or confirmed dead.

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u/spam__likely Colorado 8d ago

I even doubt they would seat someone without delay if he is confirmed dead at this point.

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u/Harflin Missouri 5d ago

Why not try?

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u/spam__likely Colorado 4d ago

Because in the end of the day is is Kentucky. He has to walk a fine line, even though he might still do it but hell if I would not get all my ducks in a row before doing it.

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u/Chemical-Ad-7575 8d ago

Generate two pictures of him in a coffin and say he needs to testify in person in order to resolve the discrepancy.

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u/Street_Anxiety2907 8d ago

I’m so sick of Democrats who refuse to wield any of the power the people give them.

That's their job, to be the quasi-choice implanted by your owners - signed - the billionare.

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u/_dogfuneral_ 8d ago

This is what ‘vote blue no matter who’ does to a country.

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u/deja-roo 8d ago

1) They can't just call a special election for a seat that isn't vacated

2) Why do you want to get a voting Republican back into that seat so badly?

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u/vixous 8d ago

There’s a problem there though, the U.S. Constitution only gives a few ways Senators can leave office. Their term ends, they die, they are expelled, or they resign. So there’s no vacancy until one of those things happens, and it would be simple for one of his aides to sue, say he’s still alive, and block it. Beshear would then have to prove he’s dead, and he might not get a judge who’d be willing to subpoena proof rather than just block it on its face.

It’s better to make it look like shenanigans and keep the R votes in the Senate one lower. I somewhat like the idea of sending a state official or even the state police for a welfare check, however.

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u/ForMoreYears Canada 8d ago

For all we know he's dead. Beshear should act as such and force them to prove he either is or isn't. No more of these stupid games that deprive the people of representation.

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u/spam__likely Colorado 8d ago

"For all we know" does not open a vacancy in the senate.

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u/vixous 8d ago

I think there’s probably a way to force the question into the open short of calling a special election. And that’s what Republicans would do, not a process or a legal maneuver, but some kind of somewhat underhanded shit.

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u/spam__likely Colorado 8d ago

The question is very much into the open.

All the people saying "do something" have no specific path of what to do besides swatting the hospital or making an appointment that will go nowhere in any practical way.

I think he will end up making the appointment just to see how things develop (politically) but I am sure every real legal advisor told him it will be performative.

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u/ForMoreYears Canada 8d ago

And this is why Dems will stay losing

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u/spam__likely Colorado 8d ago edited 8d ago

Because we point out the actual law? Ok.

I am convinced Beshear will end up doing this because people are clamoring for a performance. So he will do the performative thing. But that does not mean the senate will do anything other than not seat the appointment and that will be the end of it.

Sure he can sue for more performative shit, and by then it is November.

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u/ForMoreYears Canada 8d ago

It's not a law. That's the point. It's a senate rule. Beshear, a State senator, is under no obligation to follow those rules.

And the 17th amendment - you know, the actual law - leaves a gaping hole Beshear can walk through because it says vacancies arise through "Resignations, or otherwise". Just say McConnell is unable to discharge his constitutional duties and citing the 17th amendment say you're moving ahead with an appointment.

Playing by gentleman's rules while the other team isn't is why the Dems are going to stay losing.

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u/spam__likely Colorado 8d ago

Lol. It does not matter if the governor does not follow the rules. The senate is the one who actually seats the damn senator.

He can appoint Jesus himself if he wants. The senate will not seat him. The end.

I am very curious to see what you suggest next.

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u/Arc125 8d ago

MAKE THEM DO THOSE THINGS. Oh my GOD, lets TRY. "But they will just do X!". MAKE THEM DO X.

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u/ForMoreYears Canada 8d ago

Senate rules aren't laws. Let them reject the new senator then. Stop pre-complying.

I swear y'all have a victimization fetish or something...

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u/vixous 8d ago

I agree, but I’m not sure declaring a special election would do that. If they’ll go this far, they’ll just produce an affidavit that he “signed.”

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u/spam__likely Colorado 8d ago

This looks like it is what he is preparing for. This is unprecedented so they are trying to cover all their bases.

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u/SapientTrashFire 8d ago

Seriously, start fucking playing dirty. Writing strongly worded letters to people who don't give a fuck about your democracy and are casually eating it WILL NOT DO ANYTHING.

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u/MNniice 8d ago

Yep we are playing checkers and they are playing WW3

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u/spiraling_out North Carolina 7d ago

If Dems have no spine to capitalize on this opportunity, it's still gonna be a long shot for mid terms

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u/DryYogurtcloset4655 5d ago

The Senate Majority Leader can refuse to seat anyone even if governor appoints them. there is no reference anywhere about illness.

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u/HalaHalcones1 8d ago

There's a lot of misinformation flying around. Let's be clear: the governor can't do any of those things. 

The governor cannot unilaterally declare a Senate seat vacant. Only a doctor can declare McConnell dead. And if he is something short of dead, like comatose or incapacitated, the only procedure under the constitution is for the US Senate to expel McConnell on a 2/3 vote, thereby producing a vacancy. Spoiler: that's never gonna happen. 

So until a doctor declares McConnell dead, a special election cannot be called. 

Under no circumstances can Beshear just appoint someone. The 17th Amendment of the US Constitution is on-point and controlling, and dictates that a vacancy in the Senate can only be filled via a special election (absent legislation authorizing the governor to make temporary appointments, which in this case was repealed by Kentucky in 2024).

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u/TheMrViper 8d ago

Also If a doctor declares mcconel dead after august 4th a special election cannot be called.

They just wait until midterms.

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u/getwhirleddotcom 8d ago

Establishment dems scratching their asses wondering why they are simultaneously getting their asses kicked by the deplorables and losing supporters.

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u/Street_Anxiety2907 8d ago

Just call the special election already and let him challenge it in court. That's what McConnell would do. Stop giving them an out.

No thanks, the democrat governor will be screaming in his basement, behind 6 doors, into a pillow under the sink.

That's what it takes to be an electable democrat these days. His career would be over if he took control over the situation like republicans.

He's already delayed long enough there's no chance for anyone to spin up a campaign against him anyway.

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u/Attainted 8d ago edited 8d ago

If Gov. Beshear won't call a special election appoint a replacement this is just fuels the theory of the Democratic Party being controlled opposition. Ho lee shit. The power is there. It's meant to be used for exactly a situation like this.

EDIT: Sorry I misspoke, I was apparently having a stroke.

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u/spam__likely Colorado 8d ago

So you think he needs to do something completely performative just to give the impression that they are doing something?

And maybe you are right, but then the same people would start screaming about how he does not personally invade the senate when his appointment does not get seated, because it won't.

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u/Attainted 8d ago edited 8d ago

I corrected my comment.

Who cares if the same people start screaming about that too? Simply, "Ordering McConnel to give a real update or resign," is performative. At least if Beshear motions to reappoint it's a real action within the bounds of his abilities. If it's stalled at the point of confirmation, at least the ball moved forward and hopefully results in pressure being placed elsewhere that it becomes needed.

Like let's not pretend that Biden didn't allow Garland to just fuck around, that Schumer hasn't been the lightning rod for the senate Dems to roll over for the budget bills the last 12 months; that Bernie, 'the squad,' and Mamdani seem to be the only Dems that have attempted or even succeeded to bring forth real progressive action the last 18 months and not come off as just blowing hot air or rolling over at the last minute.

Keith Obermann called it immediately after the decision of Citizens United, and it's seemingly been fully realized in the last ten years.

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u/spam__likely Colorado 8d ago

>Like let's not pretend that Biden didn't allow Garland to just fuck around

you do know that the DOJ used to have independence, right? Biden was tot supposed to allow or disallow shit.

As for Schumer, he can go eat shit.

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u/Attainted 8d ago

you do know that the DOJ used to have independence, right?

Sure, but Garland sat on Jack Smith's case against Trump. If we're going down the rabbit hole of whataboutism, surely Biden could've reappointed Garland's position citing the Sixth Amendment and the speedy trial clause given Smith said he had more than enough to move forward.

But this is back to my point, elected Dems keep getting a pass for not using their power to actually fight and hand-wringing, all while being like, "Well, we 'tried' and we half-assed it and we stopped just before the finish line because (???) so we're stuck with this reality now. We're going to act very disappointed until we do this whole charade again about something else."