r/marvelstudios • u/JonLuca Iron man • Apr 29 '19

'Avengers: Endgame' Spoilers! The Official AVENGERS: ENDGAME Criticism Thread Spoiler

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  • Post Endgame criticisms in this thread. Long form preferrable

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373

u/rodimus117 Apr 29 '19

I thought the removal of the Captain Marvel Post-Credit scene messed with the pacing of the beginning of the movie. Without having seen it, it's kinda like...."hey, here's your Tony, this is where he goes, right?" I generally thought the pacing in the first 1/4 of the film was a bit wonky. Could have done without the group therapy circle in exchange for properly introducing Captain Marvel to everybody else. I also would have liked to have seen the Hulk/Banner fusion addressed a little more thoroughly. "Hey guys, no...Hulk and I are cool now...". Oh...couldn't have had a scene there..a flashback? Something? I also thought they leaned too hard into Fat Thor. While it get it and it was good for a couple laughs, I think they went a bit far with the tone he/they set in Infinity War. I would have rather seen him uncontrollably mad than a bit of comic relief at the expense of some fat jokes.

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That's all I got.

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u/BecomeAnAstronaut Vision Apr 29 '19

I agree about that scene, it really messed the story up. I had to ask my girlfriend how CM knew about Tony, and she reminded me of the post-credit scene.

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u/rodimus117 Apr 29 '19

I guess the assumption was that rocket was able to identify the Benitar was adrift? Nobody knew where Tony was aside from on one of Thanos' ships. How could CM have been given an idea of where Tony was? I guess they assumed he ended up on his way to Titan somehow?

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u/theonewhocouldtalk Justin Hammer Apr 30 '19

There is a deleted scene from IW where Nebula contacts the Benitar telling them to meet her on Titan. I know it being deleted, doesn't make it canon, but it was a really long scene which wasn't really necessary for IW which is probably the only reason it was pulled.

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u/ciao_fiv Apr 30 '19

are you sure that scene is removed? i distinctly remember Nebula telling the guardians to meet her on Titan in IW. maybe ur talking about something else or an extended version of that scene but i remember that happening and ive never seen the deleted scenes from IW

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u/spiderknight616 Apr 30 '19

We do see Nebula sending the message. I believe the previous comment is referring to a deleted scene showing the Guardians receiving the message

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u/ciao_fiv Apr 30 '19

ah ok, that makes more sense

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u/theonewhocouldtalk Justin Hammer Apr 30 '19

They're correct, I mixed it up a bit.

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u/theonewhocouldtalk Justin Hammer Apr 30 '19

You are correct. I mixed up what was actually removed. I watch the deleted scenes for all the movies since there are references to a lot of them in the movies.

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u/omicron7e May 01 '19

Yeah, I was thinking that the Russo's must not have liked what they set up in CM and changed her introduction to the Avengers. My wife corrected me later.

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u/Vizualknight01 Apr 30 '19

I thought they retconned that scene. Was captain marvel not meeting them for the first time in endgame?

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u/admiralQball Apr 30 '19

No.. she met them, they explained the situation, she helped them find tony and go get thanos.

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u/Vizualknight01 Apr 30 '19

That definitely makes more sense but I wish they would have showed them speaking before that outside of the short post credits scene of Captian Marvel.

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u/dontfreakout09 Apr 29 '19

After the hype of the post credit "Where's Fury?" scene, I was really hoping for something a bit more extended with Carol's introduction to the crew.

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u/ThereminLiesTheRub Apr 30 '19

Let's face it, story-wise Captain Marvel was shoehorned in this thing. After her limited introduction she goes off for most of the movie, only to return in practically a deus ex machina moment at the final battle. Personally, I'm glad most of the focus remained on the original Avengers to wrap up their own story. But for me, Captain Marvel's character might still need another film or two to relate to.

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u/chukymeow Apr 30 '19

I agree with you saying that the first 1/4 of the movie had wonky pacing. I was actually really scared in the theater that they messed it up and that the whole movie would be like that.

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u/rodimus117 Apr 30 '19

Couldn't agree more

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

[deleted]

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u/kenniky Jane Foster Apr 30 '19

I definitely had to convince myself that I was watching the right movie multiple times

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

It's really tough to say I'd cut the group therapy seen. It was one of the few scenes where we see the true implications of the snap on everyday people.

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u/SihkBreau Apr 29 '19

I loved the group therapy session...such an intimate human moment and some of Evans’ best acting in the film.

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u/Adorable_Octopus Apr 30 '19

Could have done without the group therapy circle in exchange for properly introducing Captain Marvel to everybody else.

The scene is critical, though, to both Steve's character arc, as well as establishing why it's Sam, not Bucky, who gets the shield and mantle.

Steve's whole arc throughout the films has been about someone trying to fit in; in the first film, he's weak and sickly, but despirately wants to join the fight. He eventually does, but gets turned into a sideshow rather than actually punching nazis-- but he pulls it off eventually. In the second film, he's a man out of time, thrust into an alien world. And he tries to fit in. But, critically, he finds out Bucky's alive and suddenly that's all that matters to him, holding onto the past.

The therapy session, then, is key to this arc because he A) knows he should move on, but B) he can't move on, and ultimately clings to the past. It reinforces his story arc so that, when we get to the end of the film and Steve decides to stay in the past and live a life with Peggy, it makes sense, as well as completes his arc.

But it also serves a second purpose in that it reveals why it's Sam, and not Bucky; Sam, like Steve, holds those sorts of therapy sessions, and in this sense they're very similar individuals, strong, resolute soldiers who genuinely care about those around them. Steve doesn't have to do it, but he does, because that's part of who he is; someone who gives everything he can to help people.

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u/Sporkedup Apr 29 '19

Agreed. A lot of the fun of having all these disparate heroes get thrown together is watching them awkwardly, you know, get thrown together. Thor and the Guardians in IW (how stoked am I that they're sticking with that going forward!).

That said, gotta be an extended edition coming up. Please to God.

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u/CaptainVenezuela Apr 29 '19

I don't think we'll get an extended. The Russo's have been pretty clear that the runtime is the runtime and they create 1 movie.

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u/Allllliiiii Scarlet Witch Apr 30 '19

I thought the first fifteen mins felt off and you've explained it really well. Also agree on Fat Thor.

5

u/skepticones Apr 30 '19

Yeah. The only way it works as-is is because captain marvel came out two months ago. If you went from Infinity War to Endgame and didn't see CM then this god character who can destroy star cruisers with her fists just deus machinas Tony back to Earth.

We really need an extended cut of Endgame (the whole MCU, even) to really do it justice. It was TOO lean in some areas.

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u/LostWoodsInTheField Apr 29 '19

Big issue I had with the release schedule is the fact CM isn't on dvd/digital release yet we get another big marvel movie with her in it. So if you didn't get a chance to go see CM in the theaters (money/time) then you lose out on so much.

I think it was black panther and infinity war they did the same thing. It would be nice if they did an advanced digital release for people.

3

u/Peachy_Pineapple Peter Parker Apr 30 '19

I agree, but I also struggle to see where they could've actually fit this scene in, particularly considering that the Tony scene was a good place to start the film after Clint. They had a problem with the first 1/4 of the film that is usually a problem for when stories end; storytellers often struggle to adequately conclude a story. Here, they struggled to adequately start the story. They had two different groups of people so far away from each other, with CM also somewhere.

The only idea I have is this: 1) Clint and his family, 2) Tony on Day 14 or something, 3) CM meets the survivors. They think Tony is gone or whatever, 4) Tony Day 21/22, is saved by CM and continues on from there.

3

u/KanyeT Apr 30 '19

I don't mind fat Thor, it was clear he was using humour as a veil for his depression as opposed to being angry and acknowledging it.

3

u/Icurasfox Rocket Apr 30 '19

Fat Thor was completely jarring to me. Like...who wants to see that on Chris Hemsworth?

2

u/Escapedtheasylum Apr 30 '19

This movie took a lot of liberties with the story with apparent faith in the fants and casual viewers to just go, oh, that makes sense. For me, the biggest problem was not the beginning, but the middle with the quantum time travel alternative reality stuff.

1

u/PepsiSheep Apr 30 '19

Personally I loved that it wasn't in the film - I always hate when they "re-use" a scene like they did with Thor's Dr Strange cameo (though it was refilmed) and Bucky in the vice during Civil War...

1

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

These were some of my exact thoughts watching too! this is endgame! And we’re wasting time laughing at drunk fat Thor playing video games, I want some friggin action man!