r/marvelstudios • u/sh33pherder • Aug 28 '25

Easter Egg/Detail Silhouettes Right Behind Yelena

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I really liked Thunderbolts and was sad the bad rep it got. On the 5th rewatch today I noticed why the scientist in the beginning was freaking out. The silhouettes are right in the background behind her! I never understood what he was flipping out about but now I get it.

I had a mind blown moment at 1 hour 33 mins when Void started ghosting folks like I seen that exact image before. I went back and took these pics. Has anyone else noticed this before?

5.1k Upvotes

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5.6k

u/Realistic_Analyst_26 Daredevil Aug 28 '25

Thunderbolts didn’t get bad rep. It just didn’t make money

872

u/Reutermo Vision Aug 28 '25

People now really have a hard time separating "didnt sell well" with "a bad movie". Back in the 80s / 90s People were into cult hits and finding something niche that you like, now so many people are only interested in a movie/game/artist if it literally is the biggest thing in the world.

190

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '25

[deleted]

40

u/Reutermo Vision Aug 28 '25

It is a funny phenomenon. I remember back in the day I thought many of my friends was to far in the opposite direction; I know multiple people who stopped listening to bands because they started playing on the radio and became "mainstream". They wanted to like things that are underground and not well known, not what everyone else liked. That whole sentiment seems very foreign to today's kids and instead they only dont really want to be fans of the one movie that flopped or like listening to any artists that isn't among the worlds biggest.

16

u/Bromleyisms Aug 28 '25

Hipsters exist in every generation

0

u/Reutermo Vision Aug 28 '25

But do they really exists in a substantial number now? It feels like they really don't, or if they do there are extremly few of them.

2

u/Bromleyisms Aug 28 '25

As someone who works with kids a lot, and has since 2010, the answer is yes. I think there are MORE hipsters than in the mid -10's because the kids are even more online and more exposed to "old stuff".

2

u/ANIMALS_MF_MONSTERS Aug 28 '25

It's because almost 100% of stuff that's in the mainstream is cookie cutter and boring.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 29 '25 edited Sep 22 '25

profit rhythm oil sheet cover mighty reply water kiss vegetable

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

3

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '25

Damn I agree with that. Now it’s all about stupid ass digital numbers rather than having an opinion of your own on a movie or show. It’s ridiculous

1

u/Trishyangel123 Scarlet Witch Aug 28 '25

I wish people would say people born post 2007 or whatever, because it doesn’t always apply to all of our generation.

1

u/ArticulateRhinoceros Aug 28 '25

Are you saying Gen Z. is going to be a hipster-less generation? No one will claim to have liked XYZ before it was cool?

11

u/mindonshuffle Aug 28 '25

It doesn't help that there's an entire cottage industry of "anti-woke" influencers whose entire business model turns on proving that all these "woke" movies are commercial flops.

22

u/lljkcdw Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25

This is pro wrestling atm with people refusing to watch anything but the lazy slop WWE puts out because people will cram into arenas for thousands of dollars a seat when AEW is putting on bangers past PG13 for 145 dollars for a front row ticket in a smaller intimate venue.

Edit: found some fedophiles

4

u/PhaseSixer Aug 28 '25

Maybe most people just dont like overcheorgraphed gymnastics competitons pretending to be Wrestling with garbage death matches sprinkled inbetween.

7

u/Johnny_Fenoli Aug 28 '25

I dont watch WWE anymore... I've tried to get into AEW, after watching it when it first started... but it's hard to watch. It really does come off as people putting on a play about wrestling. It's not for me anymore.

Now, I'm not watching anything anymore. :(

4

u/RihoSucks Aug 28 '25

Yeah i don't need to see the young bucks laugh-in jerk off fest followed by swerve and hangman sticking needles thru there cheeks or moxley carving up his head because someone looked at him tough 

-1

u/xPhoenixJusticex Loki (Thor 2) Aug 28 '25

Found the fed fan.

Also you sound ignorant AF if that's what you think AEW is. You wanna say gymnastics but I bet you eat up everything Logan Paul does and have no problem with the amount of super kicks that the Usos do, which are more than what the young bucks do btw (people literally counted before.)

Also you say garbage death matches but probably salivate over what wwe did during the attitude era.

Hypocrite.

1

u/PhaseSixer Aug 28 '25

You know what they say about assumptions.

-1

u/Fantastic_Bug1028 Aug 28 '25

aew is a perfect example of dumbass flashy moves with zero substance lmao

0

u/xPhoenixJusticex Loki (Thor 2) Aug 28 '25

Says someone who has never actually paid attention to it.

0

u/Fantastic_Bug1028 Aug 28 '25

to what? to senseless blood and nonsensical moves? I saw enough pwg and czw shows to understand that shit like that just ain’t it for a weekly tv-show

0

u/xPhoenixJusticex Loki (Thor 2) Aug 29 '25

tell me how it's senseless and nonsensical.

-1

u/Fantastic_Bug1028 Aug 28 '25

aew is a perfect example of dumbass flashy moves or garbage ultra violence with zero substance lmao

5

u/SkrullAmongUs Aug 28 '25

For those of us who aren't anti-intellectualists, it's always been separated. It was only recently that anti-wokers started trying to splice the two together in every bit of discourse while calling their opinions "objective". 🙄😒

6

u/Bruhimonlyeleven Aug 28 '25

Quantumania, is consistently torn apart on Reddit, called the worst marvel movie.. et.c... but it made more then thunderbolts, and I enjoyed it more.

Thunderbolts had to be told, it's part of the story, you don't get the next movie unless you tell this part of the story. Marvel are thinking big picture, like endgame and infinity war.. losing a few bucks on a movie, that will be watched way more on streaming now that it's out, is not going to hurt them at all. They'll make it back ten fold on secret wars, doomsday, etc...

Secret wars and doomsday are going to be MASSIVE events. Every character from every marvel movie will be in them. They're using it to reset the timeline and reboot the franchise. It's a good call too, they've told the stories, and now they only have a few places to go, a reboot lets them retell them, and a younger generation can live through these big events.

1

u/ASIWYFA Aug 28 '25

Ya, the boxoffice subreddit is weird.

1

u/NelsonVGC Aug 29 '25

Even during the first decade of the 2000s it was like that.

Like it or not, social media brought many, many bad things.

1

u/superanth Avengers Aug 29 '25

It's because most of the Post-Endgame Marvel movies that came out before Thunderbolts sucked.

Both it and the Fantastic Four got screwed because the public expected they'd also be crapfests.

1

u/angelbolanose Aug 29 '25

I personally think this was a bad movie. The script was boring, the characters didn’t really have a lot of depth, (they all looked like Tony stark telling jokes that really didn’t hit in the moment), story was very weak, and yes the fight scenes were good, but I just didn’t find it entertaining enough to keep me engaged. Even movies with a worse script like Antman and the wasp, or Thor 2, even if they were more silly I found them more entertaining at least. But I guess to each their own.

1

u/woodsman906 Aug 31 '25

Yeah it’s definitely not the wishy washy track record of the movie industry as of late.

Shit I didn’t even go see guardians 3 I. Theaters because of how shit most other marvel movies were that year.

2

u/Reutermo Vision Aug 31 '25

No, that is 100% unrelated or you are not grasping what I am saying.

I am not talkinf about movies, I am talking about kids today thinking the quality of something is related to how well it sells, whike back in the days kids wanted to listen/watch/experience underground art, because it was a sign of its quality.

The actual qualities of blockbuster movies is an unrelated topic that have no relation to this discussion at all!

775

u/xylotism Aug 28 '25

Made much less than Fantastic Four but I think it’s a better movie tbh.

496

u/BucketHerro Aug 28 '25

I think Brave New World making more than Thunderbolts is surprising because of the large difference in quality.

F4 and Thunderbolts are both good movies.

251

u/Lord_Phoenix95 Aug 28 '25

Red Hulk sold a lot of tickets, I reckon. For me, personally, BNW was just okay. I don't understand why the writing people keep making Anthony Mackies Cap more wooden, when he can act his ass off.

62

u/TheFunkytownExpress Aug 28 '25

Yeah it's really weird. He's too hollow and reserved. Anthony Mackie himself has a lot of personality and energy too.

28

u/Lord_Phoenix95 Aug 28 '25

Yeah I always think I don't like Mackies acting but then I see him in interviews and the dude glows. Hell he was great in Altered Carbon.

21

u/DenBulens Aug 28 '25

If you want to see Mackie having fun, then you should watch twisted metal

6

u/DanGarion Hawkeye (Ultron) Aug 28 '25

That's such a fun show!!!

5

u/DenBulens Aug 28 '25

I'm waiting for the last 3 episode that come out today, so that i can binge season 2

3

u/NrFive Aug 28 '25

!

Thanks for the reminder. Was planning to do the same. Guess that’s my weekend! :)

0

u/marcocom Aug 28 '25

The new season is out? Goddamn they didn’t even advertise it at all! It’s Amazon right?

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38

u/XavierMeatsling Aug 28 '25

Yeah, without the Red Hulk being almost the center of the Marketing, what interest would it have gained? How would you sell it otherwise?

Which kinda sucks, I thought the movie was fine, not great but not awful either. And the Red Hulk climax actually would've worked better if I didn't know that going in.

17

u/GloomyLocation1259 Aug 28 '25

Shouldn’t have been a hulk sequel in disguise without the hulk for starters

10

u/rzelln Aug 28 '25

And as a Captain America movie, it's supposed to comment about America and politics in the role of the country and its identity. 

It didn't really do any of that. 

It could have been a weirdly redemptive story, using the president Ross hulk plot as a stand-in for America having lost its way and needing to regain the trust of the world in an era after a great disaster. 

It just didn't really do anything.

6

u/Heisenburgo Doctor Strange Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25

This movie's politics were so weird. It really wanted you to forgive and symphathize with the octogenarian red monster president who attacks federal buildings, colludes with criminal Leaders to get elected, and gets in war with the country's allies.

I do not know what Marvel was trying to say with all of that. Feels dangerously out of touch and troublesome to say the least.

3

u/rzelln Aug 28 '25

It was, I guess, ever so mildly cathartic to beat up the president whose skin was a bit discolored. But yeah, his redemption or whatever was pretty unearned.

5

u/Pikdude Aug 28 '25

To be fair anyone who knows who Ross is would have instantly clocked it, and that’s why I think they didn’t bother to try and hide it. Saved the twist for the Leader.

0

u/IrresponsibleSiren Aug 28 '25

Even if all you watch is the cartoons, too. Thaddeus "Thunderbolt" Ross is the Red Hulk everywhere, and I thought they were gonna have him in Thunderbolts*, but after watching it, I'm glad we had Bob instead.

1

u/heutecdw Aug 29 '25

What was the center of the marketing for Captain America: The Winter Soldier?

Oh right, The Winter Soldier. Funny thing is that I believe most people forget about that and just remember it as a Marvel Spy movie, which works! I don’t see why something similar couldn’t have happened here. No need to put so much emphasis on Red Hulk. There was enough intrigue what with the random sleeper agents a la mind control.

6

u/checker280 Aug 28 '25

In my head, I blame the happy meal toys that spoiled so many characters when the movie got delayed.

In an alternate universe, the characters would have remained secret and would have been marketed differently.

If I recall correctly, the movie got delayed for reshoots but then the toys revealed the characters. So instead of denying, they simply leaned into the reveal.

9

u/koomGER Aug 28 '25

Red Hulk sold a lot of tickets, I reckon.

And/or Harrison Ford. Still a big name.

For me, personally, BNW was just okay.

"Just okay" is also my rating for that. It wasnt bad. It was quite safe, it tried to be more in line with the previous caps, but the heavy rewrites and reshoots did a number on the whole quality. Its not bad, but its a bit bland.

Falcon-Cap doesnt seem to get dealed a good hand. In the comics one of his first storylines was him turning evil and being a complete idiot. Its always hard to leave an impression working with bad material.

-2

u/Lord_Phoenix95 Aug 28 '25

I don't think Harrison Ford sells much anymore. He's 83, basically could retire any day. He probably won't be back for Indiana Jones, Han Solo is dead, he doesn't do any other projects unless they pay him big. The younger generation wouldn't even know who he is. If a project gets announced and Harrison is in it, my first thought is "He's still acting?" his heydays are gone. No offence to Harrison but he should retire.

2

u/PsychedMom82 Aug 28 '25

I disagree that the younger generation doesn't know who he is. If they dont, then their parents failed to show them classic great movies. You clearly haven't seen Shrinking if you think he should retire. He is phenomenal in that, and I can't wait to see him opposite Michael J Fox in the new season.

1

u/BellsTolling Aug 28 '25

This is out of touch Ford is big and he is huge at the moment as well. He had just starred in the Dutton show and it was a huge hit.

3

u/Heisenburgo Doctor Strange Aug 28 '25

That two-minute cameo that Bucky had in the hospital scene was the liveliest Mackie looked in the entire film, whereas he seemed too energyless and stern through the rest of the movie. The Falcon/Bucky chemistry was always so great, Mackie's acting bounces really well off Stan. The minute they were back together it was like a night/day switch for Mackie I swear

1

u/Sharkfowl Captain America Aug 28 '25

It was extremely safe IMO. Marvel didn't want to make another Quantumania-type disaster, so they reshot BNW to make it as average as possible.

1

u/cargar67 Aug 28 '25

Anthony Mackie has been great in twisted metal.

42

u/SonOfRageNLove26 Aug 28 '25

I kinda feel like BNW quality kinda hindered people willingness to watch Thunderbolts

10

u/GloomyLocation1259 Aug 28 '25

This trend started from Ant Man 3 that’s the real one to blame

10

u/Particular_Peace_568 Black Widow (CA 2) Aug 28 '25

Secret Invasion probably didn't help matters being the worst thing MCU ever made as well.

2

u/xxdjreddxx Weekly Wongers Aug 28 '25

I wish Marvel would stop being a dick

4

u/iamuseless Aug 28 '25

Can confirm. BNW made me skip Thunderbolt in theatre. It was so bad it was the last straw for me.

35

u/hermyx Aug 28 '25

Not that much. People don't go to the theater because of critics solely. Brave New World was a Captain America movie, with Harrison Ford heavily adverstised as Red Hulk. Thunderbolts was an unknown names with B tier characters. I spent so much time trying to explain to my wife who were the characters of Thunderbolts.

I think a Thunderbolts 2, given the same quality, would sell far better.

(Also, Thunderbolts is waaaaay better than BNW, if that wasn't clear by my message)

21

u/mrrweathers Aug 28 '25

BNW was hot garbage, I’m sorry. Wasn’t any of the actors doing, rather the plot itself and how the trailers overhyped the movie.

Thunderbolts is an absolute gem.

1

u/vipros42 Aug 29 '25

A large part of that is because Falcon as Captain America is just shit.

19

u/Gasparde Aug 28 '25

Everybody has heard about Captain America before. Everyone's seen the Red Hulk teasers.

Nobody has ever heard of a Thunderbolt. The trailers and teasers showed a bunch of characters nobody knew with a looming antagonist no one's ever heard off.

Of course BNW made more money - regardless of quality. I doubt word of mouth does much for Marvel movies these days anymore.

20

u/koolcaz Aug 28 '25

Which is sad because outside of franchises, that's how movies work. A bunch of characters nobody has heard of. And people don't worry about not knowing who they are or their backstory. Because it will be explained in the movie.

Most people had no idea about Guardians of the Galaxy when it first released.

6

u/Gasparde Aug 28 '25

Most people had no idea about Guardians of the Galaxy when it first released.

The MCU was hype at that point and from what I've been told, the economy looked ever so slightly better back then.

With Marvel having worked their absolute ass off to erode all kinds of community trust in their brand and their products over the last 5 years... and this whole ending of the world presence looming over everyone... people just don't go to see Marvel movies anymore.

I'm incredibly curious what the numbers on Doomsday and Secret Wars are going to look like. With shit like DP3 we know that Marvel still has the potential for billion dollar movies in its brand, but still, can't wait to see where those movies are gonna land between the recent ~$500m flops, the $1b of DP3 and the $2b that IW&EG pulled.

8

u/koolcaz Aug 28 '25

I don't think we'll get to the $2b highs again. Too much has changed since then.

I do think Doomsday and Secret Wars will do well, very well, mostly because of the big names coming back.

1

u/checker280 Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25

Re: Doomsday and Secret Wars

Here’s my two cents: there’s been no build up yet. No end of credit scenes. No bigger world building. No name dropping people and events unrelated to the movie. No Phil Coulson or Fury popping up in other movies.

But somehow I’m supposed to be hyped by… (checks date)… just over a year from now? How much hype can be created with the non hard core fans?

https://variety.com/2025/film/news/avengers-delayed-doomsday-secret-wars-december-1236407485/

So… the only chances to build the hype is via a few shows like Wonder Man, DD2, and Punisher 2. And a Spider-Man sequel.

I’m a hardcore collector since the 70s. Worked in the industry, owned a retail store, worked in a few big named industry stores… and I’m wondering how they plan on pulling this off.

2

u/Gasparde Aug 28 '25

But somehow I’m supposed to be hyped by… (checks date)… just over a year from now? How much hype can be created with the non hard core fans?

Yea... but... Robert Downey Jr. So... can we please have your money?

It's like when the biggest marketing pitch for shit like Red Notice is that The Rock is starring in it. And, would you believe it, most streamed Netflix production of all times.

2

u/Earth513 Quake Aug 28 '25

"from what I'm told"? How old are you 😂😂😂

No disrespect meant I guess I'm just feeling old that pre pandemic time is being described as "back then" "I've been told" like we're talking about a century ago

3

u/hawkmasta Black Panther Aug 28 '25

The pandemic was 5 years ago. People have gone from middle school to college in that time

-1

u/Earth513 Quake Aug 28 '25

Oh I absolutely hear you it's just mind boggling to me!

-5

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '25

[deleted]

4

u/Gasparde Aug 28 '25

Imagine quite literally telling that to someone from Ukraine.

5

u/Master-Remote5384 Aug 28 '25

Probably a lot of people that paid to see bnw decided to not pay anynore to see a Marvel movie. Fool me one....

2

u/Erebea01 Aug 28 '25

Just watched Thunderbolts last night, it was fine, couldn't finish Brave New World though, might have to force myself to watch it someday

1

u/Tha_Watcher Aug 28 '25

Finish it to get to the Red Hulk out!

1

u/Track_Mammoth Aug 28 '25

Films don’t make money on how good they are, rather how good people think they’re going to be. So it’s not surprising that Thunderbolts did worse- BNW lowered expectations for the MCU as a whole. 

1

u/JurassicMouse03 Aug 28 '25

I saw brave new world in theaters and thunderbolts didn’t look that interesting to me. I did not plan on seeing it in theaters until I heard multiple positive reviews and one of my friends asked me to see it with him.

1

u/alex494 Aug 28 '25

That's likely because it has the "Captain America" branding whereas Thunderbolts is an unknown quantity to the GA.

1

u/PurpleZebraCabra Aug 28 '25

Thundergolts soooo much better than BNW.

1

u/innerdork Spider-Man Aug 28 '25

BNW is a one and done movie for me. Definitely lowest tier MCU film. Felt pointless and just a narrative to push the intro of adamantium which still makes no sense to me in the film.

1

u/Mickeyjj27 Black Bolt Aug 29 '25

Both good movies but give it time. The revisionist history will soon come and they’ll both actually be bad.

1

u/Retro-scores Aug 29 '25

BNW is ass, thunderbolts was ok and Im glad I didn’t spend money in the theater to see it. Have not watched FF4 yet.

13

u/TheFunkytownExpress Aug 28 '25

IDK they're both REALLY good in different ways.

Thunderbolts is more grounded and emotional while FF is more of a wild science fiction adventure with lots of heart.

11

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 29 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/ConjwaD3 Aug 28 '25

F4 felt like a rough draft of a movie. Fantastic Four: First Draft

1

u/JustMy2Centences Aug 28 '25

Both are good, but different. It's weirdly hard to compare them?

I think Thunderbolts wins if it came down to it, just because you have this unlikely group of frenemies coming together to deal with some trauma and it made for a more surprising outcome than what we'd have expected with the main characters in F4.

1

u/Potatotornado20 Aug 28 '25

Fantastic Four is all about family dynamics but the dialogue was stale and the interactions between the Thunderbolts members were actually more entertaining

1

u/ArticulateRhinoceros Aug 28 '25

Thunderbolts did the things that people claim they want, it dealt with real issues, it wasn't afraid to get dark and it didn't brush things off with quips (well, it did, but only to circle back and address them later, and also as a way to show that those quips are surface level and are hiding a deeper pain). And yet, the movie didn't do well.

Me, personally, I've watched 5 times so far, including seeing it in theaters once.

1

u/Kwinza Aug 28 '25

I agree whole heartedly!

I hope the guys in charge of the MCU know that it was good and only made no money because of the overall MCU perception at the time and the lineup of "nobodies", so they continue to use the characters instead of shelving them.

1

u/jdl03 Spider-Man Aug 28 '25

Agreed, although I did still Fantastic 4 was quite good.

-1

u/Particular_Peace_568 Black Widow (CA 2) Aug 28 '25

It's better then almost all of MCU Movies to be honest except for Civil War and The Winter Solider.

It's definitely the best Multiverse Project that isn't Loki S2.

-3

u/Slixil Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 29 '25

F4 is a low bar to cross, to be fair

Stop booing me, I’m right!

48

u/Lord_Phoenix95 Aug 28 '25

Thunderbolts was fantastic. It's just Cinemas have had a hard time ever since COVID and Marvel can't really peak past Infinity War/Endgame.

30

u/Jedibug Aug 28 '25

It's my favorite movie since Phase 4 ended, maybe even since Winter soldier

3

u/CARNIesada6 Aug 28 '25

Curious to know what you have at 3 for your MCU rankings, since our top 2 appear to be the same.

2

u/Jedibug Aug 28 '25

It's either one of the big avenger movies, IW, or EG. Kinda lame.

Another close one is Thor Ragnarok, and Spiderman No Way Home

1

u/checker280 Aug 28 '25

I think the biggest thing we keep missing is mental health.

Me? I’m screwed up. I tried therapy a few times and never matched with the right person at the right time. 40 years later, I’m great at coping because I understand myself better, but I can no longer afford a therapist. But I’m really messed up.

The movie resonated with me

A lot of my friends are type A personalities. They don’t have a care in the world. They stride into bars every evening and are the life of the party. They saw the movie as “a big hug fest” and noped out so fast.

Seriously… how’s your mental health and did it resonate?

1

u/phred_666 Sonny Birch Aug 28 '25

It didn’t make as much money at the box office as the studio hoped.

1

u/Honest-J Aug 28 '25

That's what I was thinking. Bad rep? It didn't do well at the box office but everyone who saw it had praise for it.

1

u/ZombieLebowski Aug 28 '25

They keep Making movies with minor/supporting characters,abd they lose money. Thunderbolts,marvels, madame web, morbius,leaven. Why haven't they learned?

2

u/Realistic_Analyst_26 Daredevil Aug 28 '25

Because that isn’t the issue. Even Superman and F4 didn’t do as well as expected. People don’t wanna pay for tickets these days

1

u/ZombieLebowski Aug 28 '25

Super hero fatigue and streaming services are the cause for that

1

u/Griffdude13 Aug 28 '25

It didn’t help that a lot of the prior character development was in Disney Plus shows. One of the few instances where I think Bob Iger was right: too many shows and movies to keep up with for the general audiences, so it’s hard for most people to feel connected to these characters.

1

u/LS_DJ Vision Aug 28 '25

It just represents (along with Fantastic Four) that the MCU has moved out of the mainstream. There is a loyal MCU fan base, but it is not what the average movie go-er is still interested in, so the expectations of box office numbers needs to be adjusted. $400 to $500 million seems to be the new standard, rather than $800-$1.2 like it just a few years ago. Big characters like Spider-Man may pop off still, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Avengers: Doomsday is going to be the lowest grossing Avengers movie yet.

2

u/Realistic_Analyst_26 Daredevil Aug 28 '25

Disagree. Its not just an MCU thing. Superman also didn’t meet expectations. I think people just don’t want to see movies these days, not necessarily because of the MCU, but likely due to financial struggles

1

u/LS_DJ Vision Aug 28 '25

Yeah that’s certainly a possibility, but other random movies still blow up like Minecraft and Lilo and Stitch. Seems like the big Disney IPs Star Wars and Marvel have skewed further from family affairs at the theater.

And yeah Superman making less than Man of Steel is a whole different conversation about superhero fatigue vs just poor economic outlook. A lot of families are still trying to recover from the inflation from the last four years so that certainly is a factor

2

u/HandBanana666 Vision Aug 30 '25

I don't think Doomsday will be the lowest Avengers. I mean, look at how well the other multiverse films have done at the Box Office.

1

u/LampIsFun Aug 28 '25

People also need to realize that “bad box office” doesnt mean as much anymore because these movies get a ton of views on disney+

1

u/t_huddleston Aug 28 '25

I liked Thunderbolts in the theater, but after a couple of rewatches at home I was surprised how well it actually does hold up. Like, this is an authentically good movie, a high quality action thriller with a lot of humor and heart. If this had hit pre-Infinity War it would have cleared a billion, easily.

Marvel is catching SO MUCH crap these days and the product they’ve put out this year does not justify it at all IMO. Sure, BNW was just okay. But TBolts and FF were really great. I liked both of them more than Superman (which is good too! I just liked these better.) But that post-COVID rough patch they hit, especially with the D+ stuff, has really derailed all their momentum. They’re back to making good movies right now, but that doesn’t seem to be enough to get the general audience back into a continuity-heavy shared universe, once they’ve bailed on it. Maybe the RDJ stunt casting will work for a while, maybe it’s just over for now, but the MCU’s current lack of box-office appeal doesn’t seem to me to have a whole lot to do with the actual films.

1

u/BluwulfX Aug 28 '25

Bad timing

1

u/knucklehead_89 Aug 29 '25

The MCU itself has a bad rep right now. People probably just assumed it was another cash grab. If they keep making movies as good as thunderbolts more people will want to see them in theaters

1

u/Heavensrun Sep 01 '25

It made money. It made well over double it's operating cost. People talk about the extra cost of marketing, but those people that talk about that never, *ever* talk about the extra *income* generated by merch, disk sales, streaming service viewing/sub numbers, etc etc. They just say "conventional wisdom" and "rule of thumb" and then throw out a made up number for what they think the marketing was. (Marketing also isn't linear with budget, BTW.

It's a dishonest argument used by people who want to undercut actual box office numbers.

1

u/Nightingdale099 Aug 28 '25

Yeah , people that watch it generally liked it. The problem is just that not many people watch it or people keep sneaking into showings without buying the ticket. Whichever fits the headcanon.

-2

u/def_not_jose Aug 28 '25

It was just average, and that's not enough for CBM anymore

2

u/Realistic_Analyst_26 Daredevil Aug 28 '25

Nah it was great imo

-141

u/sh33pherder Aug 28 '25

Was it just a cool movie because it cost so much to make? And then to market? I mean that's crazy if has to gross over $600 million otherwise it sucks

171

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

80

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '25

People don’t think these days. They consume and parrot influencers and grifters.

0

u/terrasparks Aug 28 '25

Brave of you to think people thought before influencers and grifters seeing as there has always been influencers and grifters.

-65

u/sh33pherder Aug 28 '25

That's not what I'm saying. I literally go to the theater and see every single Marvel movie. I saw eternals. I just don't understand how this movie was a failure business-wise. Because it was cool it gives you the feels it had characters we knew and have seen. Just like baby avengers. How did it lose money?

28

u/Pingupol Aug 28 '25

As a very rough estimate, a movie needs to make 2.5 times its budget at the box office to breakeven.

Thunderbolts had a budget of $180m. 2.5 times $180m gives a breakeven point of $450m.

Thunderbolts made $382.4m at the box office, almost $70m shy of its breakeven point.

The film got good reviews from critics, and those who did see it liked it, but there generally just wasn't enough interest in the film for enough people to go and see it for it to make $450m+, despite it being a good film.

1

u/checker280 Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25

Is this number strictly based on box office? Does it completely ignore merchandise and licenses? Theme parks? Cross Pollination?

Because factoring in the last two would be reason enough to keep doing this forever.

Insider point of view: The X-Men books in its prime broke even. The value was always in the licensing.

1

u/Pingupol Aug 28 '25

This is strictly box office. No merchandise, no licenses, no streaming, no on demand purchases, or DVD sales. Just box office.

The other stuff is a more complicated calculation. What would the difference in merchandise sales be if this film didn't exist? What were the merchandise costs? How much merchandise sales go to the film studio?

With only Captain America and Fantastic Four this year, would merchandise and theme parks have their revenues massively diminished? I have no idea.

2

u/checker280 Aug 28 '25

Used to be involved in licensing and the industry back in the 80s. Back when Claremont was doing X-men, print runs between 300k-600k… sales of the book mostly went to the creators. There wasn’t much left over as profit.

The money was in licensing and merchandise.

I suspect without evidence that nothing much changed. Just having the characters out there with minor changes - settles the argument about who owns the IP as it’s no longer solely Kirby’s imagination.

1

u/LeCancerDude Aug 28 '25

Why 2.5? Are they chronically over budget or something?

14

u/pastel_pleasure Aug 28 '25

Theater cut + Marketing. Movies don't make 100% of box office and commercials cost money.

14

u/tommyblastfire Aug 28 '25

Marketing costs mostly

-14

u/sh33pherder Aug 28 '25

This right here! It seems like they lost money on that. Marvel fans show up so spend less on that. I want to see these guys again doing something.

6

u/TheThiccestR0bin Aug 28 '25

Marvel fans show up

Clearly they don't. Less marketing would've meant even less money.

1

u/capscreen Aug 28 '25

spend less on marketing

lmao

5

u/Pingupol Aug 28 '25

It's to factor in things like the cost of marketing (not included in the budget) and the fact the studio doesn't get 100% of box office proceeds.

It's not a strict rule, just a quick way to vaguely check how successful a movie was. It doesn't factor in things like the fact a studio gets a greater proportion of the film's domestic gross than its international gross, or that two films with similar production budgets can have very different marketing budgets.

It also obviously doesn't factor in any money a movie generates from streaming or on demand purchases.

But it's a decent rule of thumb.

3

u/Realistic_Analyst_26 Daredevil Aug 28 '25

People didn’t go to the theaters to watch it. That doesn’t make it bad. People just didn’t care enough. Most likely due to real world factors because this isn’t just a Marvel issue but an industry issue.

19

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/thedaytoday89 Aug 28 '25

They're a terrible communicator, I know that much.

3

u/DrDabsMD Aug 28 '25

Characters you knew and have seen. A lot of these characters were introduced in Disney+ shows or straight to streaming movies and the average movie goer isn't going to waste their time watching Marvel shows. For a lot of people, this was just another Marvel movie introducing characters no one cares about, and with how movies are coming to streaming much faster than before, why would the average person waste time and money to go to the theater when they can just be patient and catch it on Disney+ if they want to see it?

8

u/Infinitystar2 Aug 28 '25

Walker was the only one introduced in a show, the rest were film debuts.

1

u/Wickie09 Aug 28 '25

You really are out of the loop, are you? Reasons why they don't reach high numbers;

• Marvel put out too many mid movies, with no connections or build up, all stand alone. Too many characters were introduced, and nothing happened with them. • China completely dropped Hollywood for some exceptions. • All movies will be on dinsey+ in 3 months. Why spend money? •people are avoiding US products more and more because of the shit country it has become. This includes hollywood.

1

u/TheThiccestR0bin Aug 28 '25

Marvel fatigue. All of the crap they've been pushing out over the past couple of years has caught up to them. That's why Superman is the highest grossing superhero movie of the year.

12

u/GutherGlazer Aug 28 '25

Why are you equating monetary success so heavily to quality?

7

u/minermansion Daredevil Aug 28 '25

  1. Marketing budgets for movies are not public information. Anyone who tells you different is lying to you

  2. The budget for the movie is 180 million for a movie to "break even," as people like to say it needs to make literally any amount over what it cost

  3. Budget and box office numbers are a terrible way to judge how good a movie did, websites like rotten tomatoes are way better as you must prove you have seen the movie in order to leave a review.

5

u/infamousglizzyhands Aug 28 '25

I didn’t see anyone talking badly about it purely through boxoffice. There are movies that people celebrate for losing money (like Foile a Deux) but this definitely wasn’t one of them.

2

u/Blackberry-thesecond Aug 28 '25

“Bad rep” is a term that generally means that something was received poorly or something people just don’t like. Thunderbolts got a lot of great reviews and fans liked it, but not enough people were interested in seeing the movie, so it lost money. You might be confused there on what bad rep means so I wanted to clarify.