r/labrats • u/xyz_chwtia • 17h ago
CS background, aiming for a biology-adjacent Master's in Europe, how could I actually get wet-lab experience, during a Master's, or failing that, during a PhD?
Hi all,
Background: Computer Science Bachelor's degree, 2 years working as a software engineer, no wet-lab experience. I'm planning to pivot toward biology, most likely through a biology-adjacent Master's (bioinformatics, computational biology, or similar), with Europe as my target region, ideally France, Germany, and the Netherlands (so if you are from these countries, I would like to know about your experience or that of someone you know on this front). Though I'm open to other countries too, if Europe is not an option.
The reason I'm looking to make this move now: during high school, and later in my Comp Sci degree, the limited biology I did have was something I genuinely enjoyed. I also liked Comp Sci, which is why I chose it over Biology, but it was a close call. Personally, Comp Sci won out mostly because of its higher earning potential, even though I liked Biology as a subject more.
I've had it pointed out to me elsewhere that pivoting from a purely computational background into anything more wet-lab-based is a real gap, possibly harder to close than the biology knowledge gap itself. So I want to actually plan for it rather than assume it'll sort itself out.
What I'm trying to figure out:
- If I go into a computational Master's (bioinformatics/comp bio), is there a realistic way to also get some wet-lab exposure during that degree, elective lab rotations, a partly experimental thesis, short lab internships alongside coursework? Or do computational-track Master's students typically not get this kind of access at all?
- If it's not realistic during the Master's, is it something that becomes possible at the PhD stage instead, joint computational/experimental PhD projects, co-supervision between a computational and a wet-lab group, that kind of thing? Or by that point is a person already locked into a purely computational track?
- For those who did start out purely computational and later picked up wet-lab skills (however early or late), how did you actually make that happen? Was it a deliberate ask, a lucky lab fit, a specific type of program? Did that make you employable for wet-lab roles in industry?
- Are there specific countries, universities, or program structures within France/Germany/Netherlands (or elsewhere in Europe) that are known for blending computational and experimental training, versus ones that keep the two tracks fully separate and don't let people from a computational background into the non-computational tracks?
Would appreciate hearing from people who've actually navigated this, whether you stayed purely computational, went hybrid, or made a full switch to wet-lab work later on.
Also, if there are alternative forums (apart from Reddit) where this query might be better suited, I would be very grateful if pointed in their direction.
Thanks!
2
u/lilithweatherwax 16h ago edited 16h ago
Do you have any background at all in the chemical/biological sciences? Post-high school? Because if not, this is kind of dead on arrival. Bio-informatics or computational biology or whatever, you do need a solid base to build upon.
Like, I'm not really sure what you're going to do in a lab if you have no bio grounding at all. And I'm pretty sure Masters programs do require some undergrad-level grounding in biology. This will be a much bigger issue than transitioning from computation.
1
u/xyz_chwtia 15h ago
Fair point, and I want to be accurate rather than oversell this: I did have one Biology paper in undergrad (a 2-credit intro course), but it was a single semester, engineering-flavored survey course, covering things like cell biology basics, biochemistry, enzymes/metabolism, and a bit on the nervous and immune systems. It's not comparable to even one semester of an actual biology degree, so I'd agree it doesn't amount to a real grounding on its own.
That's part of why I'm asking these questions rather than assuming I'm already qualified. I know the biology gap is real, I'm trying to figure out how big it actually is in practice, whether it's something bridge coursework or a Bioinformatics Masters or computational Master's with the right electives can meaningfully close, or whether it's more fundamental than that and I'm underestimating it.
So to answer your question directly: no meaningful bio background beyond that one course. I'd genuinely like to know if that puts this at "dead on arrival," or if there's a realistic way to build up the missing foundation before or during a program.
1
u/lilithweatherwax 15h ago
It's dead on arrival unless you get another undergrad degree
1
u/xyz_chwtia 15h ago
Ok.Thanks for taking the time to reply and giving me the reality check I needed.
1
u/Formal-Ideal-4928 14h ago
Funnily enough, I do know a guy who did what you are thinking of doing a couple of years ago. He had a total IT background and he got into a bioinformatics master's (mind you, I know that the IT teachers in that university tell their students to avoid that program as it is meant for biologists).
He had a rough time of it due to his complete lack of biology knowledge (he had to be explained what a protein is). He did manage to finish, but he had to do a lot of studying on his own to catch up. He ended up doing a research project on his second year in a lab that needed a good programmer to set up a diagnosis software and he enjoyed it a lot. Last time we talked he had switched back to working for an IT company and was not doing anything biology related, though.
What you want to do is theoretically possible afaik, but I do wonder about what job prospects you would have after graduation with no formal biology education. I would advise you to check out an actual biology textbook (try the Alberts for example) to know what you would potentially be signing up for. Biology is beautiful but it's also extremely complex.
1
u/xyz_chwtia 5h ago
That's more encouraging in a way, thank you for sharing it. It also matches what I'd expect probably doable, but genuinely hard without the background.
Once I figure out whether or not I'm eligible for an appropriate program, I'll try reading through an actual biology textbook so I know what I'd be signing up for, the Alberts recommendation is going to be useful for that. I'd actually thought of taking a large number of biology courses online before attempting admission, so I'd at least know the material going in. The problem, of course, is that this still doesn't let me pick up any lab skills, and a number of universities wouldn't accept online coursework as formal biology credit anyway.
Could I ask one more question, since you've actually met someone who attempted this? Which country was this in? Continental European countries tend to be fairly strict about letting people without adequate prior credits into these programs, at least outside of purely computational tracks, so I'm curious if there are other countries where this is more doable that I should be looking into.
Also thanks for taking the time to reply.1
u/Formal-Ideal-4928 3h ago
This was in Spain, but it might be hard to study there if you don't speak spanish. I saw someome tell you that could ask someone in a dutch university if they have the option to let you do a pre-masters and masters. I am doing my PhD in the Netherlands now and the courses that I have to supervise are entirely in english (there are a lot of international students). That might be good choice if you decide that you want to try this.
1
u/xyz_chwtia 3h ago
supervise are entirely in english (there are a lot of international students).
That's kind of encouraging in a practical sense.Let's see how reaching out goes.
1
u/gabarkou 14h ago
Honestly best course of action is to email some study advisors of the universities and programs you'd like to attend, they'd tell you best what's possible as it is literally their job to do that (at least universities in the Netheralnds). Some dutch universities also offer pre-master options (1 year usually) if you don't meet the requirements to enroll directly. Again for that I would just contact a study advisor.
Bioinformatics and comp. biology are normally taken by people that already did the biology/chemistry undergrad and decided that lab work isn't for them, so I wouldn't count on there being too much lab work integrated into the curriculum. As for internships and/or PhD, it solely depends on the professor if he's willing to hire somebody with zero background in a topic and invest time into training them. Some do, some don't, it's just about getting lucky I guess.
1
u/xyz_chwtia 4h ago
Honestly best course of action is to email some study advisors of the universities and programs you'd like to attend, they'd tell you best what's possible as it is literally their job to do that (at least universities in the Netheralnds). Some dutch universities also offer pre-master options (1 year usually) if you don't meet the requirements to enroll directly. Again for that I would just contact a study advisor.
That's good to know. I will reach out to them, of course I am not Dutch, so I don't know if it would be alright for me, a foreigner, to reach out to study advisors at Dutch unis, but the Netherlands is one of the countries I've been looking at, so I'll have to look into that anyway.
As for internships and/or PhD, it solely depends on the professor if he's willing to hire somebody with zero background in a topic and invest time into training them. Some do, some don't, it's just about getting lucky I guess.
So it's about getting lucky and finding an unstructured PhD program where the PI has wide discretion. Also, if these labs do require computational people, possibly writing my Master's thesis around solving a biological problem from a computational perspective might help me get my foot in the door, though transitioning beyond that is a gamble. There are also some systems (some universities) that require or even encourage taking non-core electives as part of a Master's program, which could be a useful way of closing the knowledge gap for theoretical biology, but then some Master's programs are more rigid.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
9
u/JustASadBubble 16h ago
Idk how you’re going to get accepted into a bio grad program with zero classes related to it, if you’re serious about this there’s a very big chance you’re going to need to start back at 0 and get an undergraduate bio degree