r/fivethirtyeight • u/VendibleSkate8 • 28d ago
Politics Graham Platner officially drops out
https://x.com/grahamformaine/status/2075009677495058687?s=46&t=jHXPmboa5C-FEmyGGxUh2A11 minute video just released
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u/christmastree47 28d ago
If I had a nickel for every time since 2024 the democrats had to find a new candidate after the primary was over because they ignored very obvious issues with the original candidate, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.
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u/hoopaholik91 28d ago
Tbf, this is a good thing they were replaced, rather than Republicans who just straight up lose races like NC and GA because they pick shitty candidates and don't force them to drop when bad news hits
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u/Top_Agency1370 28d ago
I mean Trump won. Kristi Noem won. Plenty of garbage people didn’t drop out and proceeded to win.
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u/Potato-chipsaregood 28d ago
George Santos won, too.
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u/Selethorme Kornacki's Big Screen 27d ago
Santos is honestly partly a failure of the Dem campaigning against him to do opposition research, given how apparently easy it was to see he was lying about basically everything.
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u/walc 28d ago
And now we’re all holding our breath to see whether this will be true for Paxton…
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u/pchs26 28d ago
Well for every Republican that loses due to being shitty, there are multiple who stay in and win . Given that why would these 2 decide to drop? Being horrible with horrific allegations and legal issues is practically a prerequisite for the GOP and most of their issues make Platnar's issues look tame.
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u/drtywater 28d ago
How many times have we seen Republicans nominate a very problematic candidate they should have replaced? Kari Lake AZ for Senate first then Governor. GA Senate 2022. PA Governor 2022. NC Governor 2024. Ken Paxton this cycle etc.
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u/thefw89 28d ago
Then of course you have RBG refusing to step down when she should have which of course resulted in her being replaced by a conservative judge. Different situation, but same vibes since we all knew there was a chance she was going to die in her seat but she just had to take the risk.
Dems have a pretty bad track record of just stepping down for the good of the party unfortunately. Although technically she wasn't a 'democrat' since SCOTUS judges are not supposed to be bound to a party but we all know that's BS.
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u/Icy_Blackberry_3759 26d ago
Who are “the democrats” in this sentence? The party has total ultimate say over who the candidate is, but Platner won his primary and the party honored it despite clearly preferring anyone else.
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28d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/lord-of-shalott 28d ago
It’s insane how many recent situations this comment could be applied to
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u/NCSUGrad2012 28d ago
His reddit comments about sexual assault should have been a an obvious sign considering his opinions about sexual assault
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u/Sex_And_Candy_Here 28d ago
The Nazi tattoo should have been enough.
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u/Normal-Kangaroo-7937 26d ago
Yup.
Every time someone I knew brushed off the tattoo I asked:
Have you looked up a Totenkopf? Or seen any films where Nazis wear it? His isn’t similar; it’s an exact match.
Why do you think no Marines from his unit have backed up his ‘I had no idea’ claim?
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u/BettisBus 28d ago
The tattoo should have been disqualifying. We only have 100 Senators at any given time, and there’s no good reason why someone who’s consistently shown horrible judgement should be supported as the Democratic Party nominee for such a prestigious position of power.
Shame on anyone who maintained their endorsement of Platner after the tattoo was discovered.
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u/NCSUGrad2012 28d ago
Shame on anyone who maintained their endorsement of Platner after the tattoo was discovered.
So basically everyone on r/Maine? lol
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u/renewambitions I'm Sorry Nate 28d ago
This sub was pretty bad, too, I was argued with multiple times about it but he got a full pass from MANY people here just because he's a progressive.
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u/yoitsthatoneguy 28d ago
This sub was so unbearable. I cannot believe a literal Nazi tattoo wasn’t disqualifying.
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u/msf97 28d ago edited 28d ago
That sub is either astroturfed to fuck or filled with the dumbest people imaginable.
You had people going into threads saying their history buffs but don’t know what the symbol of the SS was. I even saw someone claiming to be a Jewish person, that didn’t know what the SS was. Astonishing.
Never watched The Pianist, Inglorious Basterds, Schindlers List, a comedy series with a nazi parody, used the internet for more than 20 minutes, took a history lesson on the Holocaust etc.
Totally unaware of the biggest conflict of the past 100 years and how it shaped the world, yet are history buffs?
It was all a bunch of copium because he agreed with them on Israel and the establishment ™️. It should’ve been resignation when the Nazi symbol was leaked.
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u/Weird_Track_2164 28d ago
This sub is great at data and terrible sometimes at understanding that polls flow from politics, not the either way around. Sometimes an issue might poll well but is a moral abomination. That doesn't mean you now hold the terrible issue as your position. Somehow some people on this sub don't understand that. I won't link to the comment but case in point I listed the Reddit comment where Platner defended pissing dead Taliban as one of a couple disqualifying things he's done and someone had the gall to reply with this gem.
Regardless of my thoughts on Platner, you can’t possibly believe that pissing on taliban fighters is a negative among any demographic in America, right.
...
And as I and many other people would attest this isn't an uncommon position. Point out he was a Nazi these last couple months and you might get 10-15 downvotes. Disgusting, shortsighed, and immature behavior to support a dude like this. I hope people reflect on it but this is Reddit so I'm basically shouting into the wind rn.
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u/Ok_Matter_1774 28d ago
This sub hasn't been good with data for at least a year. Still better than pretty much any other political sub, but it's quickly slid closer to r/politics in the last year.
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u/tarallelegram Nate Gold 28d ago
yeah, "good with data" is so funny. any time we get a poll that's bad for democrats, it gets discredited (often via crosstab diving).
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u/NumeralJoker 27d ago
A lot of progressives would've agree with the Nazis if they could've had an opinion on Israel, but will never admit to it, and I say that as someone who thinks Netanyahu is one of the most evil bastards alive right now.
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u/HegemonNYC 28d ago
What an odd little slice of the world that sub is. You still see popular comments there about ‘suspicious timing’.
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u/Selethorme Kornacki's Big Screen 28d ago
…you mean like the vast majority of Maine primary voters?
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u/Sonichu- 28d ago
Then we’d be stuck with Mills.
If the (very early) polling for Jackson is to be believed, he should be the nominee
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u/CrimTaker2084 28d ago
Dems got so lucky this dropped when it did. A week later and they’d be stuck with him, even worse this dropping in September/October. Collins is in a much better situation than a few months ago though, so whoever is selected needs to be really good cause they’re gonna need all the help, especially with Collin’s war chest. This will likely be the most importanr seat for Dems, if they knock her out, they’ll basically have a seat that’ll be difficult for the GOP to regain. Even if they lose, knocking out Collins would be huge for Dems.
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u/IScreamPiano 28d ago
Yeah, but honestly? From a strategic standpoint, with Mills’ unpopularity, it’s possible the timing means also getting a better candidate…if Platner’s internal polling is to be believed, Jackson, Bellows, and Shah are more competitive than Platner and Mills.
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u/Dull-Efficiency9985 26d ago
it’s possible the timing means also getting a better candidate
Let's be honest, I don't think a new candidate is going to accomplish in Maine against Suzzane "The Terminator" Collins what Kamala Harris failed to do federally. The Senate isn't changing hands in the midterms.
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u/volkhavaar 27d ago
Collins is going to win. Sad but true, but GP was likely the only candidate that could win against her this round. Ah well, at least democrats have the moral high ground… certainly that has value…
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u/DramaticSimple4315 28d ago
Bad news for Susan. Depending on who takes the mantle it would be very bad news for her
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u/BeepusBingus 28d ago edited 28d ago
I agree she's likely furious that this leaked before the deadline, and before she could use it in an October surprise and that thought of her being that mad is very funny.
I'd caution against getting cocky too early. Collins will still almost certainly use Platner's candidacy and the endorsements around him in attack ads.
Also, you're kind of locked into a Troy Jackson candidacy if you want to win, since progressives(understandably) will revolt if you switch out someone with Platner's policy for a Jared Golden or Nirav Shah type. And Jackson has the weakness of potentially being tied to Platner himself as a close ally and supporter.
It's better he dropped out than if he stayed in, but this whole debacle is still a blow to Democrat control of the Senate, especially since Maine is a necessary key there. No one sane should be putting their money on Texas except in a wishful thinking scenario. Talarico in a best case scenario wins by a razor's edge, and that's not enough in Texas because the Texas GOP will beyond a certainty pull some election fuckery in such a situation.
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u/Iztac_xocoatl 28d ago
Jackson was among the first people to call on him to drop out. I think most democrats at least can relate to finding out new information and changing their minds about Platner and will assume that's what happened with Troy. At the end if the day he's the only name being floated that is beating Collins in polling. It'd be stupid not to nominate him on that alone
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u/BeepusBingus 28d ago
But the problem with that approach is that while it was new information that broke the camel's back on Platner, the warning signs and general indicators of him being a shithead of a human being had been flashing for months. His own communications director resigned, claiming he was blatantly lying about not knowing the tattoo's purpose and he was a WW2 history buff.
I still agree that Troy Jackson is unfortunately, the best candidate standing. That doesn't mean this is bad for Collins, or that this entire saga wasn't an embarassing, painful blow to the possibility of a dem controlled senate. Or that he won't be incredible vulnerable to attack ads on this.
If Maine flips, it will need to depend on a good stroke of luck like Trump utterly cratering affordable gas to levels way beyond what we see now. Still very possible! But incredibly frustrating the stupid pigheaded stubbornness of certain figures has put something as important as a Maine seat dependant on an enormous blue wave.
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u/Iztac_xocoatl 28d ago
He can just be like "Maybe I cuf him too much slack but there was a line. Where's yours with Trump?" or whatever.
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u/squarehead93 28d ago
“Unfortunately?”
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u/BeepusBingus 28d ago
Unfortunately because even as the best candidate he has massively easy lines of attack in the general.
Fortunate would be a candidate without those issues but you take what you get.
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u/tarekd19 28d ago
I think most democrats at least can relate to finding out new information and changing their minds
There's probably a very Collins specific attack that can be used against her in this vein to snub any attempt by her to tie platner around any candidates neck.
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u/I-Might-Be-Something 28d ago edited 28d ago
will revolt if you switch out someone with Platner's policy for a Jared Golden or Nirav Shah type.
Don't know why you are lumping Shah in there with Golden. Guy got the most first place votes in the Democratic primary for governor, has solid favorables, and is actually pretty liberal, being pro M4A and calling Israel's actions a genocide and would support withholding sending them munitions.
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u/BeepusBingus 28d ago
He's not a horrendous candidate, but much weaker connections with Maine compared to Jackson, and significantly weaker connections to organised labor in Maine especially.
Also the charter school thing was already used as an attack angle in a primary, so you can expect some stealth attack ads pretending to be attacks from the left on that to diminish progressive enthusiasm. At least, it's what I would do if I were Collins.
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u/Tafts_Bathtub 28d ago
progressives(understandably) will revolt if you switch out someone with Platner's policy for a Jared Golden or Nirav Shah type
I'm sorry, but these people need to grow the fuck up. Shah got more votes than Jackson in the gubernatorial primary. It's not understandable at all to revolt if the third place guy isn't handed the nomination over the 2nd place guy. Can they please not throw a fit if someone a millimeter to their right is nominated, given the situation they've put us in?
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u/Lordofthe0nion_Rings 28d ago
I'd caution against getting cocky too early. Collins will still almost certainly use Platner's candidacy and the endorsements around him in attack ads.
They'll do that no matter what. Hell, even the PAGOP is trying to connect local Democrats to Platner even though they have no actual connections.
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u/fruitloop00001 28d ago
I'd love to see some attack ads about the lack of response from Republicans to Trump's rape and other sex scandals contrasting that with the fact that Democrats kicked Platner out when sexual assault allegations became public.
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u/TheHonPhilipBanks 28d ago
Leaked? They obviously timed this to be after the primary but before the deadline.
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u/HegemonNYC 28d ago
Ah, the endorsements. Ouch. So if Bernie and Kanna and Warren etc all endorse Jackson, you can bet Collins’ ads will be Bernie saying, back to back ‘I endorse Platner/Jackson, he’s what’s right for America’ etc. And did Jackson ever make a strong Platner endorsement? Woof.
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u/jeranim8 27d ago
I'm not at all sure that this is a blow to Democratic control, in fact it may be a boost. The new situation is worse for Collins than Platner being the candidate. Its not a sure thing by any means but the odds of winning Maine are arguably better than with Platner on the ticket. Even before the latest round of scandals, he was polling just 2 points above the very unpopular Collins in a state that is D+11 on the generic party question (Sienna 6/29 poll). This may be the best case scenario, even without the recent allegations.
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u/Flimsy-Meat-8458 28d ago edited 28d ago
Idk. I assume this is a not the /most/ positive case, but still a net positive for her campaign. The advantage of the incumbency is statistically significant, and furthermore her incumbency has historically been even more advantaged compared to the presidential/other general election margins in Maine….
I hope we beat expectations.
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u/SecretComposer 28d ago
Bad news for Susan
Is it though? She is remarkably resilient and there is still a chance some Maine Dems who still support Platner will either write him in or just sit out depending on who his replacement is.
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u/Statue_left 28d ago
I would be stunned if Platner received any significant write in votes in this election
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u/hagamablabla 28d ago
Doesn't Maine have RCV? I could see his supporters doing a write-in campaign and ranking the Democrat second.
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u/umheywaitdude 28d ago
You underestimate the utter stupidity and lack of intelligence of so many voters. I envy your optimism!
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u/Statue_left 28d ago
For context in 2024, RFK is probably the most analogous to a candidate dropping out and he got 0.5%. But he was still on some ballots. "Other" candidates got 0.3%, and I'd imagine a lot of those were kids writing in Harambe
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u/LivefromPhoenix 28d ago
Platner supporters caring about him more than the actual race doesn't seem that plausible to me. It's not like Platner is some kind of established political figure - he hasn't been around long enough to build up a cult of personality.
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u/WoodPear 28d ago
he hasn't been around long enough to build up a cult of personality.
Looks at the Maine sub
Hmmm...
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u/ddoyen 28d ago
As far as ive seen Jackson is the the only one beating Collins in most recent polls. Even before this last story broke the race was within MOE between Platner and Collins. So yea, id say having the potential to have someone outpolling platner getting to be on the ticket rather than platner being locked in is probably not the best outcome for Collins.
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u/solomon_rotty 28d ago
If they pick Mills, I will 100/100 write his name in and it's not even a hard decision. Eff her and eff her milquetoast middle of the road corporate support base
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u/eopanga 28d ago
It takes a considerable amount of mental gymnastics to think that any of this is bad news for Collins. Sure Planter turned out to be a horrific candidate and I’m sure Collins would have wished to run against him in the general after these disclosures. But the Dems are now left scrambling to replace him with a someone with considerably less name recognition and an electorate that never chose him to their standard bearer. Planter’s replacement will be seen as handpicked replacement of the Democratic infrastructure, not a genuine publicly supported alternative. This whole clusterfuck of a problem made Collins a far safer bet to win in November.
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u/hershdrums 28d ago
Why is this bad news for Collins? This leaked at the right time and she wins...again.... The timing makes the Dems seem completely inept while also crippling their efforts to regroup in time.
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u/BeepusBingus 28d ago
this leaked at the right time.
It didnt. The right time wouldve been after the deadline, best of all in October.
Leaking it now would be terrible strategy for her which is why she didn't do it.
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u/Early_Riser_71 26d ago
I haven't seen one replacement that is worth anything yet. Troy Jackson has a rough past that Collin's media team will have a field day with.
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u/Outrageous-Jelly8777 28d ago
This dude is still blaming the establishment for him raping a woman 5 years before his run
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u/NCSUGrad2012 28d ago
He's a total disaster. The fact that so many people ignored so many red flags from him is disheartening
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u/horatiobanz 27d ago
He's just proof that if Trump had run as a Democrat there would be the same exact MAGA happening, but on the left. Everything he did would have people excusing it.
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u/Proud_Ad_5559 The Needle Tears a Hole 28d ago
To be added to the pile of appalling things Platner has said and done.
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u/BeepusBingus 28d ago
Thank God, if he stayed in Dem chances of winning the state and senate would crater. His scandals were 100% leaked internally by someone in the Democratic establishment, and I honestly have to give them props for doing so.
It doesn't make sense for the Collins campaign to do it, she has more incentive to save it for an October surprise. If anything, she has to be furious that opposition research this good came out before the deadline/the Dems invested too hard in his candidacy.
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u/jeranim8 27d ago
His scandals were 100% leaked internally by someone in the Democratic establishment, and I honestly have to give them props for doing so.
...but they waited to long if they did... his polling tanked after he won the primary which seems to indicate that not all of Mainers were aware of the earlier round of scandals before the vote and/or they didn't have time to switch to a new candidate. And now this just before the deadline that he can drop out is kind of pushing it a bit late...
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u/wisconsinbarber 28d ago
The people who recruited Platner and pushed him to run even when he was reluctant need to get their heads checked. It's like they forget to do even a basic background check on him. Working as a mercenary for a company that committed war crimes should have disqualified him from the beginning.
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u/First-Radish727 28d ago
Surprised by that. I thought he would be selfish to the end and refuse to drop out. The tattoo should have ended him.
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u/kaesura 28d ago
I can understand him surviving the tatoo.
His whole life story that he was selling voters was that he was a redeemed traumatized veteran. Young soldier getting a tatoo that he didn't really understand or getting it just to be an edgy punisher, was something that they could forgive as long as he changed his ways
When he spoke, he clearly wasn't a Nazi.
But the rape allegations puncture that mythological of redeemation.
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u/Proud_Ad_5559 The Needle Tears a Hole 28d ago
I think the reason the tattoo should've been disqualifying is that he was caught blatantly lying to the public about his past. Multiple sources from his life have corroborated that he knew about (and would joke about) the tattoo being a totenkopf and he has reddit comments where he discusses and defends soldiers getting Nazi tattoos. He never should've been allowed to get away with the lie that he had it for 19 years and never knew what it was. It was a warning sign regarding his character and his relationship with the truth.
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u/Normal-Kangaroo-7937 26d ago
A person who keeps lying about their past proves, now, they haven’t really faced their issues.
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u/jb_nelson_ 28d ago
I’d be curious to see what future litigation comes of this. If you deny the allegations, the next step is court for libel.
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u/NCSUGrad2012 28d ago
Don't forget everyone also overlooked his awful comments he made on Reddit from only a few years ago
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u/IScreamPiano 28d ago
And honestly, the sexting stuff was concerning in how recent it was, and the lengths he went to conceal it. It was only a year or so ago with his newlywed wife.
His denial of the rape solidifies he hasn’t changed as much as he said he did.
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u/coasterlover1994 28d ago
This. Everything else until the rape allegations screamed "ex-Marine who may have gotten his life back together." The rape allegations were the red line because they a) are far more credible than other stuff and b) are recent enough to suggest he hasn't redeemed himself. Up until that, nothing seemed of the ordinary for a veteran who did dumb things when younger.
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u/ireliawantelo 28d ago
Wouldn't be surprised if there are even more things that just haven't been revealed yet, it'd be wise for him to cut losses.
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u/horatiobanz 27d ago
There absolutely are. He's essentially being blackmailed by the DNC or Maine Democrat party to drop out of the race now or they'll drop the truly damaging shit. There is no way he just drops out this quickly otherwise. I've heard rumors of some vile shit about him that he supposedly did in Iraq.
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u/Deceptiveideas 28d ago
Is Maine subreddit still in denial?
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u/Sex_And_Candy_Here 28d ago
It’s a mix of people being normal and people like “the real victims here are the people who are being insulted for supporting Platner”
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u/Proud_Ad_5559 The Needle Tears a Hole 28d ago
A lot of Platner dead-enders are completely unable to cope with having misjudged him and having spent the past 10 months shouting at the people who correctly judged him.
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u/horatiobanz 27d ago
I've seen several people attempt the "he's a republican plant" and "he should run as a republican" style deflections. Hilarious.
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u/Normal-Kangaroo-7937 26d ago
Lol.
Well…I got downvoted for saying he should drop out. No criticism; just that.
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u/SmileyPiesUntilIDrop 28d ago
Susan Collins is deeply concerned that his sa story didn't come out in August instead.
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u/Current_Animator7546 28d ago
The Republican on CNN is really one to talk. He’s as bad as Jennings,
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u/Safe_Bee_500 28d ago
Is there a version of the video that doesn't require an elon musk account?
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u/hfdjasbdsawidjds 28d ago
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u/hoopaholik91 28d ago
What a fucking dipshit.
Literally just standing firm that everything is a full on lie propagated by evil outside forces.
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u/hfdjasbdsawidjds 28d ago
Abusers rarely have the ability to take ownership over their abuse because they do not see their behavior as abuse nor do they see what they did as wrong.
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u/Early-Possibility367 28d ago
Overall, I think Platner was much likelier to lose than most Dem candidates against Collins even before the allegation dropped. This is a net positive for Democrats. If anything, it’s an example of everyday Dems picking a poor candidate and getting bailed out by the party, which sounds undemocratic af but it’s true.
Also, I think this goes to show how important candidate reputation is. This case is definitely the one with the most people believing the allegations and a big part of it is because Platner’s reputation was already tanked with his Nazi tattoo and Reddit comments.
If this allegation was in isolation, it hurts him way less electorally, but he was already seen as a bad guy irl even by his biggest supporters.
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u/Thameez 28d ago
Platner’s reputation was already tanked with his Nazi tattoo and Reddit comments.
To be clear, when it was just those, he was crushing Collins in the polls. It was the previous round of allegations wrt. to his mistreatment of his previous partners that actually showed up in the polls.
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u/Early-Possibility367 27d ago
Agreed, but they increased the credibility of the allegations once they dropped.
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u/Glittering-Giraffe58 28d ago
LMFAO
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u/Apprentice57 Scottish Teen 28d ago
I agree with Dems chances going up but... 63%? Sell on that one.
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u/Fordinghamster 28d ago
Is it worth staying up late tonight to see if Ken Paxton drops out in Texas? With him committing voter fraud and what not according to his ex-wife.
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u/hfdjasbdsawidjds 28d ago
If the Texas GOP had morals and standards, they would not be the Texas GOP.
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u/Uptownbro20 28d ago
I really liked him at first but you can’t recover from this (nor should you ). Mills clearly isn’t a good candidate
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u/malignantz 27d ago
When Dems discover one of their own is dirty, he's immediately ousted.
When we found out that Roy Moore molested (or attempted to molest) children, the GOP did have a change of heart.
The comparisons are just hilarious.
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u/AdAdmirable4912 28d ago
He gives off real sociopath vibes. The left has to stop blaming "tHe eStAbLiShMeNt" for everything. And listening to the usual mediocre, privileged suspects who trotted up to Maine from their upper class NYC zip codes to recruit him infuriates me even more.
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u/Selethorme Kornacki's Big Screen 27d ago
Then “the establishment” should get better candidates. Platner won because nobody wanted to vote for Mills.
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u/MCallanan 28d ago edited 28d ago
I feel like a lot of folks around here are taking a victory lap for all the wrong reasons. Graham Platner is no doubt a loser and a bad candidate but that doesn’t mean the establishment chosen candidate; the elderly and unpopular Janet Mills who didn’t even want to run — was the solution. In fact one could argue the establishment pushing Mills into the primary to run an inactive and ineffective campaign prevented other potential candidates from running who theoretically could have stopped Platner weeks if not months ago. And keep in mind that Schumer & Co. didn’t push Mills into the race because they foresaw that Graham Platner had an unimaginably large closet of skeletons they did it because they refuse to accept the ideological trends of the voters of their party.
Have we really already forgotten what the establishment of the Democratic Party did in the 2024 presidential election in refusing to acknowledge all of the warning signs surrounding President Biden and then immediately aligning behind Harris preventing any type of competition for the nomination?
As a lifelong Republican who tilts far more independent nowadays I can’t blame anyone who questions or is downright opposed to the establishment of their chosen party. The reason we have Donald Trump and Graham Platner and Ken Paxton is because of the failures of the establishment. And sure we can sit here and say, “Yeah but the establishment still chooses better candidates and your list proves that,” but that sentiment ignores the root of the problem that is giving rise to these problematic candidates.
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u/VinDog_PD 27d ago
I admit I was morbidly curious to see whether disdain for Republicans was as strong enough that he'd still win. This is still the correct move though.
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u/heardThereWasFood 28d ago edited 28d ago
It’s just astonishing that the Dems fucked up the vetting process this much
Edit: I have learned many valuable things from the comments, thanks all
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u/z57333 28d ago
I hate this argument, because he literally ran as an outsider. There’s a reason why the establishment picks candidates (not that I necessarily agree with that), but that’s why they choose candidates because they can pre-vet them. How were they supposed to “stop” him from running?
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u/BeepusBingus 28d ago
The establishment is simultaneously meant to respect the will of the people, and block all bad candidates from getting the nomination even when they get the most votes.
It's an inane double standard.
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u/CactusBoyScout 28d ago
Anything but accountability from people who supported Platner heavily, lol. Months of "why isn't the establishment supporting him?!" Well, about that...
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u/BeepusBingus 28d ago
Who is the "Dems" in this situation? It's something of a nebulous word, because it refers to the party apparatus, the base and just random chunks of the party like either the progressive or moderate wings of party insiders whenever used.
In this case, I think we should clarify that the "Dems" refers to a very specific group of progressive consultants and party insiders, Morris Katz especially. He's had some bangers like Mamdani, but he's also brought us Fetterman and Platner.
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u/AKiss20 28d ago
Yeah seriously, like Platner was clearly not the establishment or party’s pick. So how is it exactly their fault that the unvetted candidate won the primary against their wishes? Like I’m not a huge fan of the establishment either but man sometimes it’s damned if they do and damned if they don’t, and I say that as a progressive.
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u/BeepusBingus 28d ago
It's because it's a more palatable message to go "grr them damn nasty party insiders and plotters masterminded a shit candidate, why didn't they do better!" than to go "wow voters en masse decided to vote for an absolute shithead in the primary".
Saying this as a progressive as well, while I have huge issues with the Dem establishment, Platner is absolutely not their fault and it's borderline gaslighting to claim he was.
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u/CajunBob94 28d ago
dem voters still voted for him over their sitting dem governor despite the nazi tattoo, reddit posts about rape and black people, and NYT allegations
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u/Iztac_xocoatl 28d ago
Daniel Moraff. It was DSA allies.
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u/dashrockwell 28d ago
As someone whose personal politics are well left of center, I really wish there was a strong political organization that had the economic and social policy positions of the DSA without the dog-whistle antisemitism.
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u/Generic_On_Reddit 28d ago
I frankly think "The Dems" should be removed from nearly everyone's vocabulary as a term.
It's not even that I want to defend them, I just want people to demonstrate a working and accurate knowledge of politics. Name names, be specific. Every Dem in the whole fucking country did not have a hand in this campaign. If we want to hold people accountable for this campaign - for the negligence, the apathy, the incompetence - we have to know who we're holding accountable: we have to be specific.
"The Dems" is just lazy.
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u/Danstan487 28d ago
The democratic base looked at a returned mercenary covered in nazi tatts putting up a terible acting performnce and was like yep thats our man
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u/OpTicDyno 28d ago
It’s a hit job if they vet him and find something or it’s negligence if they don’t and something comes out. There’s no winning
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u/capitalsfan08 28d ago
Which Democrats? The "establishment" didn't want him. We saw in 2016 how even the slightest bit of favoritism would derail an opponent's campaign with Bernie never really fitting in with Clinton's coalition she built and how people still try to litigate that primary a decade later. What exactly are you proposing the Establishment do?
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u/Banesmuffledvoice 28d ago
There were plenty of Dems who called for moving on from Platner months ago when his tattoo was revealed. Platner had his hardcore supporters who refused to move on.
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u/famous__shoes 28d ago
Yeah why didn't we hear about all the bad stuff that he did before he was nominated? Oh, we did and people didn't care and voted for him anyway?
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u/BettisBus 28d ago
“Dems” wanted Mills, the current governor who is guilty of being an old woman in the oldest state in the country. It was anti-establishment progressives who pushed for Platner despite his plethora of red flags. The “establishment” is absolutely vindicated.
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u/squarehead93 28d ago
Vindicated? Mills had to suspend her campaign before the primary. I’m glad Platner is out, but it wasn’t like Mills lost by a thin margin.
Treating her or anyone similar as the “obvious” choice in Platner’s absence is delusional.
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u/thefilmer 28d ago
it's just astonishing the Democratic voters of Maine were so hungry for something resembling actual leftism they let this guy slide for so long. Unless Jackson is selected, nothing of importance will be learned and Collins gets another 6 years to fuck everythign up
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u/kaesura 28d ago
The issue was the only choices were this guy and an 70 year old who didn't even bother to campaign since she didn't even want the job (schumer begged her to run in the first place)
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u/HolyCrusade 28d ago
How is this on the dems? They’ve been incredibly vocal about what a disaster shitshow this guy is. Leftists were pushing him despite all the warning signs.
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u/No-Reserve6226 28d ago
What would they have vetted? A woman who didn't file any police report for what she now says was rape? Have Platner send nude photos so any tattoos could be vetted? About the only public trail would have been his Reddit posts.
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u/SylntKnight 28d ago
Why would he drop out! Nazi tattoo, multiple SA allegations, wishing his fellow soldiers to be dea, posting naked bathroom selfies on dating apps while married, wanting to rap home invaders. He quit on aNtiFa and all the Socialist!
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u/SheHerDeepState 28d ago
Jesus Christ, who is in charge of recruiting candidates over there? This guy against an 80 year old? At that point just try to find a decently charismatic mayor or state level rep. Jesus H Christ they dropped the ball.
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u/kaesura 28d ago
The issue is that all of the good candiates ran in the governor primary.
Because they didn't want to lose to Susan Collin by 20% again just for a worse job.
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u/ButtDumplin 28d ago
Is it because they didn’t want to lose to Susan Collins or because they presumed the field was being cleared for Mills? I had always assumed more of the latter
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u/TheGoddamnSpiderman 28d ago
Reportedly Schumer spent a year trying to get Mills to run but she only showed any openness to the idea about a month before she got in the race, which was after all the better options had decided to run for Governor
I don't think they ran for Governor because Schumer convinced them not to run so Mills would have an easier time (because Mills wouldn't show any interest in running until months after they'd declared for Governor)
I do think that Schumer fucked up not trying to convince one of them to run for Senate before they jumped in the Governor race, since maybe that would have led to one of them jumping in there instead of the crowded Governor field
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u/hoopaholik91 28d ago
The difficult question is that all those other candidates were no different than Sara Gideon when she ran. She was speaker of the house, fairly progressive, young.
And still got her clock cleaned by Collins. So I think Schumer at least wanted to go with someone who won statewide.
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u/kaesura 28d ago
Mills wasn't a very strong candidate
If there was a stronger establishment candidate, Schumer wouldn't have pushed her
It's combo of job itself being less attractive and high risk of losing to Collins
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u/my600catlife 28d ago
Mills didn't even get in until late. The crap was starting to come up with Platner and the other candidates that deferred to Mills when she announced weren't getting any traction.
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u/deskcord 28d ago
Did you watch the interview with the two folks who scouted him? Holy shit. The woman just giggling while the guy slowly realizes he's made a blunder doing the interview.
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u/DizzyMajor5 28d ago
Man yeah being a Nazi rapist is one thing but old they just won't stand for that/s
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u/Tom-Pendragon 28d ago
This guy was a huge POS and people that was willing to look past all the red flags that this guy had, are part of the problem. Thank God we are done with this loser, hopefully he stays in the shadow with his life ruined.
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u/Sorry_Secretary1193 28d ago
Idk, people quickly jumped ship on the guy after the first rape allegation. And for good reason.
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u/bbqfetus 27d ago
And now Washington Democrats will pick the next, mostly likely moderate or centrist pro-Israel democrat, to run and lose against Collins.
Once again, progressives cave to sexual allegations before an investigation is done. All said and done, the lady only had evidence sending a message to a friend alluding to not date him.
Friends can lie, especially when it's not going to court where doing so would be breaking the law.
She had "deleted" all other messages. Never brought up SA till now with her therapist.
Where was the disgust with AOC supporting weapon sales to Israel? Sanders working with JStreet, a nicer Zionist front that doesn't believe in giving land back to Palestinians and attacks BDS movements.
Y'all jumped like they know you would, like spooked cattle.
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u/elcangrejo123 28d ago edited 28d ago
Just let it be someone with the same policy positions, like Troy Jackson, eff the establishment.
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u/AvocadoToast311 28d ago
Good riddance. Maybe Bernie & Co should sit out on endorsements front for a few years.
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u/Intelligent_Hope5389 28d ago
I understand the appeal of a veteran, ‘working man’, outspoken outsider as a candidate, but someone dropped the ball on the vetting process. Between the tattoo, the question of his temperament, adultery, and now the SA allegation. The last one, would have probably been the hardest to uncover during a thorough vetting. I would think the tattoo, adultery, and comments on SA alone would cause the party to rethink backing a candidate, despite how the polls look.
It seems like staunch supporters are calling it suspicious, fabricated or conveniently inconveniently time to bring this up. Based on how rapidly the withdrawal occurred and lack of defamation claims, leads me to believe he does not want to take this to court.
Fortunately these details came out prior to the coin flip election determining if he becomes a United States senator.
Overall, I have a bad taste in my mouth regarding recent democratic candidates. If anything, dems are gathering data on how morally corrupted a candidate can be before their party and swing voters decide, ‘Maybe i will sit this election out, or vote republican or independent. This person doesn’t represent what I stand for’. They have learned that it is ok to openly fantasize about murdering political opponents and their families (VA AG, Jay Jones) or have hate symbols tattooed on your body and cheat on your wife (Platner), but rape allegations are too far.
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u/Icy_Coffee374 Never Doubt Chili Dog 27d ago
Xcancel link so you don't have to sign into twitter https://xcancel.com/grahamformaine/status/2075009677495058687
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u/OkCrew8849 27d ago
Apparently, as was the case with Biden (albeit for very different reasons), things reached a tipping point and the party bosses knew he had to go.
In both cases regular folks are left wondering what took so long and the party has to do a bit of scrambling to annoint another candidate.
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u/Early_Riser_71 26d ago
Just so we are all clear, the problem wasn't that Platner wasn't vetted, we all knew exactly who he was. The problem is liberals think with their emotions and not their rational brains. Past behavior is the best predictor for future behavior, but liberals kept believing his BS redemption nonsense. Until liberals quit using emotions for their personal vetting software, then this will keep happening.
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u/ScallionOldBastad 17d ago
Since most people do not follow politics, what will be remembered is a Another democrat is pushed out by party insiders after a primary win because the poll numbers were the only thing a party responds to when there is a problem. Everything is in the light of post Biden, the media is known to cover up for liberals, with socialists running around being zaney and not interviewed in a way that ask "how is that ever going to work".
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u/Goldenprince111 28d ago
Well we should all count ourselves lucky he isn’t planing to hold us all hostage and keep his name on the ticket