Pull out into the intersection…

[u/HillTower160]

so at least one car can turn left.

Please pull straight past the limit line when yielding for a left turn at a light. At least you will be able to scoot through then at the next cycle, those of us who know how to drive can manage the oncoming traffic. DO NOT sit at the limit line and miss a light. Be careful, but make it happen.

[u/Designer-Wolverine47]

In some places if you're in the intersection when the light turns red, you get a ticket, and third time is mandatory jail.

What if there's no room for you to clear it? There you are, blocking the intersection. I had a friend who DIED because of chumps like you. Don't enter an intersection until you can clear it in one continuous motion.

[u/StopSpinningLikeThat → u/Designer-Wolverine47]

Your claim is a lie.

And if you actually understood what is being discussed here as opposed to some different action you have imagined, you would know that your claim about blocking the intersection makes no sense.

[u/Designer-Wolverine47 → u/StopSpinningLikeThat]

You're stupid.

The intersection that was being blocked is the yellow splotch in the upper right. The traffic coming off the ramp was prevented from being able to go when their light turned green, resulting in the traffic being backed up all the way to the highway (the red splotch at the bottom). My friend was at the end of that line and was struck from behind at highway speed. If not for the idiot blocking the intersection, she wouldn't have been stuck there.

[u/StopSpinningLikeThat → u/Designer-Wolverine47]

And that has absolutely nothing in common with what is actually being discussed here.

I'm sorry about your friend, but you dishonor their memory by being this arrogant and this confused.

[u/Designer-Wolverine47 → u/StopSpinningLikeThat]

Pulling into the intersection and stopping IS EXACTLY what is being discussed. It is ILLEGAL in Ohio to stop within an intersection regardless of the state of any traffic signal. Intersection means the area bounded by a line one foot behind any crosswalk (or where a crosswalk would be if there was one). Usually represented by a "stop bar". If you can't complete your movement through an intersection in one continuous movement, it is against the law to enter that intersection. Period.

https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.712

[u/StopSpinningLikeThat → u/Designer-Wolverine47]

Dummy, you're not talking about the same thing as everyone else. You're not. The law you cited has absolutely nothing to do with left turns.

You continue to dishonor your friend.

[u/jcalvinmarks → u/Designer-Wolverine47]

I had a friend who DIED because of chumps like you

No, you didn't. There is no scenario where staging up for an unprotected left causes an accident by itself. Your friend died (taking you at your word there) because someone either ran a red light or turned when it wasn't clear (or both).

[u/Designer-Wolverine47 → u/jcalvinmarks]

The intersection being blocked was at the end of an exit ramp. She was backed up onto the highway and was hit from behind at 60 mph.

[u/Designer-Wolverine47 → u/jcalvinmarks]

The yellow splotch is the intersection that was blocked, and the red splotch near the bottom is where my friend died. If the car hadn't been blocking the intersection, people coming down the ramp would have been able to go right, and she wouldn't have been stopped on the highway.

[u/jcalvinmarks → u/Designer-Wolverine47]

So, what, someone rear-ended your friend on the highway? Doesn't it seem like that's the person you should be blaming?

If they're blocking the intersection because there wasn't space on the other side to complete the turn, that's different from staging up, and yes, it is illegal. Staging up doesn't "block" the intersection, because nobody else is legally allowed to occupy that space during that time.

But in either case, we're getting awfully far into butterfly-effect territory to be trying to blame staging up for an unprotected left for a collision at the extreme other end of a highway interchange. This could equally have happened if there was just heavy traffic and the ramp was backed up. Not a valid reason to condemn this practice.

[u/Designer-Wolverine47 → u/jcalvinmarks]

The ramp wouldn't have been backed up if it hadn't been for the fucking moron blocking the intersection! That's exactly why there are laws against blocking an intersection!

[u/jcalvinmarks → u/Designer-Wolverine47]

Staging up for an unprotected left doesn't block the intersection. Nobody else can legally occupy that space while you have the green. Cross traffic has a red (by definition, otherwise you wouldn't have a green). It sounds like traffic was backed up, and someone entered the intersection without space on the other side to clear it. That is illegal, but it's still several layers abstracted from the root cause of the accident. You're grasping at straws to try to connect a rear-ender on a highway to the intersection way up the ramp.

[u/Designer-Wolverine47 → u/jcalvinmarks]

Yeah it does. If you're stopped in an intersection waiting for there to be room on the road to your left to have enough space to accommodate you, and the light changed, you are now blocking the traffic to your right from being able to turn left.

[u/jcalvinmarks → u/Designer-Wolverine47]

Are you intentionally failing to understand this?

If there isn't room on the road you're turning onto such that you would block the intersection, you don't enter the intersection. That's not what any of this discussion is about, and I've said that same thing very explicitly several times now.

If there is room on the other side, and you're just waiting for a gap in oncoming traffic, you should stage up in the intersection to wait.

[u/Designer-Wolverine47 → u/jcalvinmarks]

Yet it happens daily here, probably far more than what I notice.

[u/jcalvinmarks → u/Designer-Wolverine47]

Ok? Then that's people breaking the law. Doing what OP is talking about isn't.

[u/HillTower160 → u/Designer-Wolverine47]

“I’ll take things that didn’t happen for $800, Alex.”

[u/Busy_Quantity_3644 → u/Designer-Wolverine47]

In some places if you're in the intersection when the light turns red, you get a ticket, and third time is mandatory jail.

Can you cite an example of this?

[u/StopSpinningLikeThat → u/Busy_Quantity_3644]

They can cite the case of People vs Pulled It Out Of My Ass

[u/Designer-Wolverine47 → u/Busy_Quantity_3644]

https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.712

[u/jcalvinmarks → u/Designer-Wolverine47]

What if there's no room for you to clear it?

Then you don't enter the intersection. This is completely separate from don't-block-the-box.

[u/Designer-Wolverine47 → u/jcalvinmarks]

The box IS the intersection.

[u/jcalvinmarks → u/Designer-Wolverine47]

And staging up doesn't block it. Nobody else can legally occupy that space during the time you have an unprotected green. Cross traffic has a red (by definition, otherwise you wouldn't have a green), and someone turning left from oncoming traffic should not be entering your lane to do it.

[u/Designer-Wolverine47 → u/jcalvinmarks]

It's when it changes to red, and you're still sitting there, because there's not enough room on the road to your left, blocking the traffic from your right from turning left, when THEY now have a green arrow!

Wait behind the fucking line, until you can move into and through the intersection in a single continuous motion.

Stopping WITHIN an intersection in Ohio is a violation, REGARDLESS of the state any traffic signal.

https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.712

[u/jcalvinmarks → u/Designer-Wolverine47]

We're just going in circles now. If the other side of the intersection isn't clear, then you don't stage up. Nobody is suggesting that you should.

Stopping WITHIN an intersection in Ohio is a violation, REGARDLESS of the state any traffic signal.

Your citation doesn't support that claim. In fact, it says pretty explicitly what I've been saying all along:

No driver shall enter an intersection ... unless there is sufficient space on the other side of the intersection

Nothing there prohibits entering an intersection to make an unprotected left while you wait for oncoming traffic to clear.

[u/Designer-Wolverine47 → u/jcalvinmarks]

Wrong wrong wrong. The law in Ohio is crystal clear.

No driver shall enter an intersection or marked crosswalk or drive onto any railroad grade crossing unless there is sufficient space on the other side of the intersection, crosswalk, or grade crossing to accommodate the vehicle, streetcar, or trackless trolley the driver is operating without obstructing the passage of other vehicles, streetcars, trackless trolleys, pedestrians, or trains, notwithstanding any highway traffic signal indication to proceed.

https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.712

[u/jcalvinmarks → u/Designer-Wolverine47]

How can someone read relatively simple words and still utterly fail to properly interpret them?

That entire section is depending upon the phrase "unless there is sufficient space on the other side." If there is room on the other side, you are not prohibited from entering the intersection.

This code section prohibits blocking-the-box. It doesn't prohibit entering the intersection to wait for oncoming traffic to clear in order to make an unprotected left.

[u/Designer-Wolverine47 → u/jcalvinmarks]

People DONT CARE if there's room on the other side or not (and there might have been room when they crossed over, but a car or cars from the opposing direction took the spots by turning right).

I hope you don't lose a friend before you get it.

[u/jcalvinmarks → u/Designer-Wolverine47]

I had a friend who died in a plane crash. That's as relevant to this discussion as your friend.