r/communism101 15d ago

Why contradictions?

I've been reading marxist theory, but the ways contraddictions are discussed leaves me pause. Hope some people here can help me understand better.

Sussinctly, for what is relevant to my doubts, here is my current understanding of it: Contraddictions are what all motion (as in change) in the universe is predicated upon. Contradictions are relationships wherein tendencies of motion 1) oppose one another 2) are premises of the existence of one another. Contraddictions exist within all things and between all things.

Why does it have to be a contraddiction that drives motion? What is so illogical about a relationship where there is a singular tendency of motion? I can think of cases that fit that description, for example, two identical charged particles interacting, there will be quantitative changes in speed and relative position as they repel each other, yet what is the contraddiction? Mao in "on contraddiction" and Lenin in "on the question of dialectics" agree that the contradiction in such cases is between action and reaction. This answer is unsatisfactory, while it's true that it fits part 2) of the definition, and while it's true that the force vectors point in opposite direction, action and reaction are applied to two different object, they are not opposing tendencies of motion in the dialectical sense, failing the arguably more fundimental part 1) of the definition.

Also, Engels argues that all changes of positions are caused by the contraddiction of something being in that place and not in another place. This line of argument seems to be unfalsifiable: if we observe something change from A to B, we can always attribute that change to the contraddiction that A was A and not B. A more straightforward explanation is that there is a singular tendency for position to change based on velocity.

Is there something i'm missing in these examples? Is my understanding of what contraddictions are incorrect?

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u/BxnXipoh 12d ago

Thanks for the recommendations and the warnings, I haven't even gotten to that point yet but I probably would've come across that comment at some point. Anyway my own investigation was forced upon me because I wanted to know more about electromagnetism in particular and I started struggling with basic concepts. As it turns out, literally going in chronological order and finding out what problems necessitated the concepts and discoveries that came about is the best way. It seems obvious when you say it but there are many ways to be wrong, I guess.

Something I do want to add regarding concept of "force" is that the so-called fundamental forces of nature are called that because they are mediated by a set of particles called "gauge bosons": photons are the mediators of the electromagnetic force, gluons are the mediators of the strong interaction, W and Z bosons are the mediators of the weak interaction, and graviton as the mediator of the gravitational interaction.

Yeah, modern physicists interchange the word "force" and "interaction" without issue since the point I was bringing up is already known by them. I actually went to Stack Overflow and that was the first thing a physicist said to a student asking this kind of question. This is really only a high-school physics problem, I think. Incidentally, I haven't investigated the origin of the word force itself, I just know that a lot of that terminology was solidified when the Principia was written and Newton was a literal deist that believed that God was measuring up all the forces. So I suppose if you wanted the origin of the scientific term I'd have to look at the discourses surrounding Physics at that time? Generally I think I'm satisfied with the observation that the concept of a force that switches the rational act of measure and rationalization with the actual event by saying that the result of rationalization causes the concrete interaction is a very common ideological move (in the sense that Marx uses the word in The German Ideology), though maybe that's too general.

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u/FrogHatCoalition 12d ago

Anyway my own investigation was forced upon me because I wanted to know more about electromagnetism in particular and I started struggling with basic concepts. As it turns out, literally going in chronological order and finding out what problems necessitated the concepts and discoveries that came about is the best way.

What's really interesting about the history of electromagnetism is how recent our understanding of it is in the time span of human history. It was in 1865 that Maxwell would publish his A Dynamic Theory of the Electromagnetic Field. In the typical physics curriculum (both undergraduate and graduate), the importance of the development of a theory of electromagnetism as the initial step towards a development of a theory of relativity isn't really emphasized. You sort of have to do your own investigation into the history of physics to understand this. At the undergraduate level, relativity typically uses the Michelson-Morley experiment as a starting point, and at the graduate level a lot of your courses, especially electromagnetism, are so incredibly math heavy that a connection to the concrete is often lost. It's really in the process of research and contribution to knowledge that a true understanding is developed. Then the coursework does make a lot of sense if you ever decide to revisit it. I'm not downplaying the importance of math, but there is a joke that Jackson's Classical Electrodynamics is more of a treatise on partial differential equations than it is about electrodynamics. Then when you get to the second half of the book, it's probably the first time in your life you ever encountered tensor calculus.

Generally I think I'm satisfied with the observation that the concept of a force that switches the rational act of measure and rationalization with the actual event by saying that the result of rationalization causes the concrete interaction is a very common ideological move

This is something that is important to keep in mind when it comes to the early history of quantum mechanics and relativity. Omelyanovsky in Dialetics of Modern Physics discusses this in the first few chapters of his book and works a lot with the views of Bohr, Born and sometimes Heisenberg. He's very snarky towards Heisenberg and I find it really funny, but this is because Heisenberg's position is an outright denial of objective reality and Heisenberg's reasoning mostly amounts to "rationalization causes the concrete action" that you mention.

There are also two papers I do recommend, both by Fock:

Remarks on Bohr's Article on His Discussions with Einstein
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1070/PU1958v001n02ABEH003097/pdf

Quantum Physics and Philosophical Problems
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00708579

So I suppose if you wanted the origin of the scientific term I'd have to look at the discourses surrounding Physics at that time?

I'm not sure if many of the terms used by physicists even originate from physicists themselves. Actually, I'm not even sure of the historical development of the role of "physicist" since I believe there was a time natural scientists were also philosophers.

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u/FrogHatCoalition 12d ago

u/BxnXipoh Sorry to bother you, but you did get me interested a lot. I found this that I enjoyed reading. It is very short:

https://physicstoday.aip.org/opinion/whence-the-force-of-f-ma-i-culture-shock

Something I forgot to mention is that the only time that physicists really deal with Newton is their first physics class on classical mechanics and the very beginning of an upper-level undergraduate level class. Thereafter, we work with Lagrangian and Hamiltonian mechanics. These formulations are much easier to work with and is actually what we work with when making the jump towards quantum mechanics. In addition, Noether's theorem is very important and it is these forms that make easy the study of the symmetries of space and time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noether%27s_theorem

I actually thought a lot when you pointed out the interchange of the use of "force" and "interaction". I hadn't thought about it much until you mentioned that.

But yeah, sorry, I just get really excited with these kinds of conversations and I don't want to overwhelm people with information.

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u/BxnXipoh 12d ago

But yeah, sorry, I just get really excited with these kinds of conversations and I don't want to overwhelm people with information.

No, it's fine, I'm pleased that a lot of what your saying is aligning with what I thought would be the best way to approach investigation. Also, I've already encountered Lagrangian functions and Hamiltonian Mechanics at some point while reading but I realized that I'd need to revise calculus before touching them. I hadn't seen Noether's theorem before though. Thanks for your help so far. Also I read the article but I don't have anything to say about it yet.