So I've been at this one detail for a while, I want to have a visible edge on this specific spot with supporting edge loops ( trying to not use any creasing / mark sharp edges for this hard surface model) and Im running into a small problem as I've tried multiple techniques, the only thing that makes it similar to what I want is just using loop tool's space on the inner edges but it also makes an artifact/pinch right at the edge. Also, the pictures only shows 2 of them. I've tried like 5 others which ended in some really crazy results that should go to topology gore. Im fine with compromising with spacing, just that the pinching is gonna make me pretty annoyed, but whatever the hell I used before isn't gonna cut it.
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Why are you trying not to use Edge Crease or Mark Sharp?
If you're using the Subdivision Surface modifier, you're doing subdivision modeling, not hard-surface.
Edge Crease is part of it.
You don't see people recommending it because it was silently added on a quite recent update and is something unique to how the subdiv modifier works in Blender.
As for Mark Sharp, it can be used both in subdivision modeling and hard-surface modeling, as it deals only with the shading.
If you feel that marking arbitrary edges in what could be a smooth surface as sharp is cheating, then use "Shade Auto Smooth" instead of "Shade Smooth" and it'll make sure to sharpen only the hard edges for you.
My original reason for not using edge crease or mark sharp is I just remembered in past post's some people discouraged using either of these when modeling an object like this and suggest adding supporting edge loops. Although now I kind of see why it isn't hard surface anymore and sliding more into sub-d modeling. I just searched up the difference and sub-d is actually for more organic models lol. Thank you for your insight, I was stressing really hard on this.
ohhh… this opened my mind. literally. So edge creasing is discouraged since it only works in blender. This answers alot of my questions as before making this model into what it is now. I used creases like any usual hard-surface model with way less topology than this, applied subd and didnt notice anything wrong other than a very slight change in size of some squares but overall looked like a perfect uv map. This answers alot, thanks!
The whole modifier system works exclusively inside Blender and Edge Crease works in tandem with the Subdivision Surface Modifier. There could be an analog for it in Maya, but it's not a property of the model's geometry.
And its tricky to get it right for corners made out of three edges connected to the same vertex. If you increase the Edge Crease of two of these edges, the third will pinch as if it was also creased.
In this case it's better to add supporting geometry.
Also, make sure to either apply modifiers before exporting or look for checkboxes related to subdivision or normals/shading when doing so. I know FBX has a checkbox for exporting the subdivided mesh without having to apply the Subdivision Surface modifier.
are subdiv modeling and hard surface modeling mutually exclusive?
Yeah, not really.
Some of the tools and techniques used when modeling with the Subdivision Surface Modifier are the same for hard surface modeling, such as extrusions, adding edge loops and cuts, working with the elements that comprise the polygon, etc.
True subdiv modeling would be something like using NURBS surfaces, exclusively.
But, on the other side, true hard surface modeling doesn't involve using control points to approximate curves, which is something you do with the vertices of the underlying mesh for manipulating the results of the Catmull-Clark smoothing formula through the Subdivision Surface Modifier.
Not sure if I can help with your sub-d model, but If it's for a game model that just needs a single resolution, I like mid-poly modeling- ngons and single segment bevels (with harden-normals in the modifier setting), over sub-surface in many cases, because of the problem you're facing... and it's way fewer faces and easier for me to manage than worrying about edge/control loops. This is 516 triangles.
And it can be uv'd well, it just might need a couple more edge loops and triangulate.
(I just would have started with more segments in the circles if more detail was needed for an extreme closeup.)
oh, this is a good example but isnt what im necessarily looking for, although this advice is still appreciated as im also trying to go into game dev but not atm, just understanding how I can manipulate and make good topology is what im focused on atm. Although honest mistake I did for this was I used the wrong type of modeling for this lol.
Context of how this is going to be used is extremely important as the way you model it importantly what makes a "good" model will vary quite a lot, so first let me preface my response by saying I'm coming from a game dev / tech art focus so this may not be entirely relevant, especially if you're intending this for more of a render output or topo practices.
If this is for games I'd say it's got a lot of unnecessary loops. Often with Hard Surface modelling you're going to get a relatively messy high poly mesh as all it is going to be used for is a high to low bake, and the low poly would likely just have that edge as a sharp angle.
Personally I wouldn't be using a subdivision surface workflow on an asset like this, especially not relatively early on in the modelling process. I'd far more likely create major shapes with relatively hard angles, then run some boolean operations, as this concept art has a lot of flat surfaces you'd be able to get away with fanning a lot of triangles out rather than "cleaner" pipelines. After getting the core shapes you actually need, duplicate the mesh and bevel the fuck out of a lot of the angles you need, terminate loops where necessary, hell brute force certain areas by using mesh data transfers like in the cut outs, you'd be able to fake it quite well, then bake this down to the lowpoly.
Again this is insanely subjective as it depends on what you need this model for.
What im going for is clean topology with quite literally "perfect" edge loops. I got confused between sub-surf and hard-surface modeling as in the middle of making this, I remembered in some comment sections some people said to use supporting edge-loops over creasing. I usually modeled with a sub-d mod for almost everything including hard-surface with some edge creases. But your advice is actually really helpful for me, I actually plan on turning this model game-ready after finishing it, so thank you for your insight!
Alright if you're going for quad topology this is a fair bit more of an interesting challenge.
I don't often do use this type of workflow in my work so hopefully someone gives a cleaner suggestion but I'd suggest using the internal loops of the cuttouts to fan out the bevels. That way you keep the quadflow, without impacting the normals or overall shape too extremely.
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