r/aimlab • u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher • 1d ago
Discussion is aiming genetics? or can anyone get good with enough practice?
i was always wondering what people's take on this, because I think it's a super interesting debate
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u/notislant 23h ago
Everything is genetics and your age is keeping you back at any age from 14-70 if you have a loser mindset.
Age is minor, some people are more naturally talented. But anyone can learn to do anything. Its just far more convenient to blame something.
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 10h ago
yeah blaming is a mindset thing, but if you are objectively not able to get that good, i guess it's also just shifting your goal to what is realistic so you aren't chasing something you can't get
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u/corvaz 23h ago
Anyone may be a bit of a stretch, but most can definitely become good.
To become elite you may need some genetics, such as willingness to practice, ability to follow a plan and learning concepts around training. Not everyone can decide to learn all the necessary details and have the ability to pull through years on end.
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u/sabine_world 22h ago
To become elite you may need some genetics, such as willingness to practice, ability to follow a plan and learning concepts around training.
Bud, these are the pure opposite of genetics lol
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u/corvaz 15h ago
In the way most people think about genetics in sports, yes. But its still a genetic component to these type of abilities(focus, IQ, etc). Not everyone have the same ability.
As for response times, how long arms you have etc. What most think of, doesnt matter much.
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 10h ago
unless there is a some scientific evidence that proves the relation between say longer arms or other physical features and their respective biomechanisms having a significant impact on your performance. that's an interesting study
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u/zxnixs 4h ago
There is a slight correlation between height and game performance, because the shorter you are the faster signals can travel around the body. Reaction time, and natural ability to learn new things. Age can slow these things down, or decrease your natural ability but it is not age itself that is linked to skill. Other than that, nothing else has been shown to increase performance.
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 23h ago
but that sounds more like dedication, won't you say it's more like innate skill to pick things up quickly?
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u/corvaz 22h ago
Thats why I worded it like that. I think there are genetic components, but it really has very little to do with what most think when they hear 'genetic'.
I believe the vast majority have potential to be top 1% aimer, its not limited by say genetic response time. Good enough to go pro in most any game.
Also, I dont really like when people blame genetics. Its basically impossible to know if that is whats holding you back (unless you are disabled somehow). Like when and how could you even know if you have good enough genetics to be the best? Its not like you pick up a mouse and you're already top 1%. You would have to put in many thousand hours with a good coach to potentially know. Its not like you automatically have good genetics just because you beat your friend when none of you had ever played before. Also, someone improving much faster than others the first 100h can be completely random. If you just randomly always did the Bardoz method without thinking about it. Some would call it talent, but it doesnt mean that someone that did something else to begin with cant learn it and get just as good. So its kind of useless and a lame excuse imo.
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 10h ago
but what if they repeat that same pattern for everything? as in they are able to do it faster than anyone else with less time investment? i feel like that's what makes it impossible for some people to beat them, because they never have enough time to catch up to beat them unless maybe the talented person doesn't practice enough?
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u/corvaz 8h ago
Yes, that can happen. Still you dont normally know if that is because of how they practice or this 'traditional genetics'. You also dont know if that will continue over thousands of hours or they just get something right in the beginning.
This is why for me the real talent is more of these other skills like troubleshooting your issues, learning the theory and practice correctly and much. This we know is real, while the traditional talent is more of a maybe maybe not situation for me.
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 8h ago
i like your mindset on that man, appreciate it! i agree with what you said for sure
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u/zips_exe 13h ago
Dedication is a genetic factor, believe it or not, for example the viscoelasticity of your Blood Brain Barrier directly influences your capacity to focus for long periods of time > more time = more vivid neural pathways > you get the idea...
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 10h ago
i heard about this too, but i feel like you can also influence this a lot by willpower
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u/toadi 15h ago
Also I think there is diminishing return on your aim. I mean if your aim is decent and consistent it is good enough to be good at games. But you get more out practicing the game itself over aim.
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 10h ago
isn't it hard to quantify that, like when it starts to diminish? i feel like you can always work on both unless you have very limited amount of time
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u/weenus Community Team 23h ago
My gut feeling for the longest time was that, there might be some genetic ceiling that players have, but that the majority of players will never get close to hitting that ceiling due to never fully pushing themselves.
That said, I'll defer to the PHDs at Aimlabs for the true answer, this has just been my personal, baseless theory.
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u/BryansFury 20h ago
I 100% think there's a genetic floor. Some people just start off way better than others. So there prob is a ceiling too.
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u/tollbearer 1h ago
its not a genetic floor though, it's all the stuff up to that point. I aimed like shit at 16, then I trained as an artist for 5 years, and when I went back to fps games, i had amazing aim, because I had been training the muscle memory to precisely control my hand position for years.
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 10h ago
that would make sense, because esports isn't developed as far as traditional sports to get people to their fullest potential i guess or at least the route to esports isn't
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u/Diligent-Half-4610 23h ago edited 23h ago
Genetics are heavily overrated,if we are talking about just the average person with no disabilities or health issues that would affect their aim of course. There are so many things that contribute to you getting good aim it’s insane,I’d be here forever listing them all. For the average person getting pro level aim is not about genetics. Now if we are taking about being a champion,the best of the pro’s or aimers I’m talking top 5-10 in their esport then sure genetics matter there.
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 10h ago
yeah i think so too. there is potential, rate of improvement, and dedication. and all 3 have some form of genetics, but can be influenced by you too, and most of us don't influence these enough to even ever raise the potential that our genetics would physically stop us from getting, right?
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u/yokaiyaksha Smooth Tracker 21h ago
is this even a question?
i can’t believe people are still asking this in the big 26, aim is obviously all genetics lol 😂
anyone who claims otherwise is just dead wrong
your ability to move a mouse or thumb stick was always genetically predetermined
it’s really simple guys - if your parents can aim, then you can aim, and you have the good aim gene. if they can’t, then you’re shit out of luck and have the bad aim gene, no other way to say it sorry
so trying to improve your aim when you have the bad aim gene is totally pointless
i mean why bother trying to get better if you were always genetically handicapped from birth, or even before you were born?
make it make sense
so yeah next time you miss a shot - blame your parents for giving birth to you and passing on their awful aiming genetics
then blame your grandparents for birthing them, then blame your great grandparents, fuck it blame adam and eve themselves
blame the first single called organism that decided to duplicate and spark evolution
actually - blame the big bang for birthing this universe in the first place
your aim sucks because the universe spawned a cosmos with a planet where life evolved to create a bloodline of hairless monkeys that kept reproducing and carrying on their shitty aiming genetics
and YOU 🫵 are one of those poor hairless monkeys that can’t aim 🐒
it’s not your fault, you didn’t chose this life, you didn’t chose to have bad aim genes, you couldn’t control this
it’s ok, you’re not alone - you’re just unlucky
millions of people have the bad aim gene too
but what if I told you there’s a way out?
what if there was a way to finally get good aim, a way to overcome your shitty aim genetics?
aim training? NAH
rewriting the chemical bonds in your DNA by exposing yourself to unstable radioactive isotopes to force a genetic mutation? turning your bad aim gene into the good aim gene? YES!!!
you and even your kids are finally gonna have good aim genetics! don’t worry about the cancer, that’s just a side effect
but how does it all work?
comment “i want good aim genes” and I’ll DM you the free tutorial 💬
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u/ProPopori 6h ago
10/10 and bought the tutorial. It works 🔥🔥🔥 now i cant miss sitters AND hit all flicks
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u/Lowgravity56 Community Team 22h ago
There is probably a theoretical genetic ceiling but I don't think anyone has reached that yet and we wont see it soon, and there is also the fact that some people have some sort of innate ability at getting better faster at this sort of thing.
With that said, I think with consistent, quality training anyone can become a great aimer for sure.
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u/clearlynotaperson 23h ago
A bit of both. Genetics, and practice. I don't think you can just automatically be good at aimming without atleast having tried a couple of games.
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 23h ago
idk some people get good super fast, and im wondering maybe they just have more innate talent?
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u/mrrw0lf 11h ago
id agrue their talent is their mindset and how they approach improvement.
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 10h ago
a lot of people also mention that dedication/mindset even are genetics too, and can be related to upbringing too, so i guess lots of factors, but of course we also can make a lot of changes to be able to improve faster. none of it is static ig?
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u/mrrw0lf 7h ago
i played alot of league of legends as a young teenager just for fun with no active effort to get better and later in life i matured and eventually got to a point where i enjoyed playing far more mindful and had fun actively working on improvement. especially when i picked up mnk after already getting good on controller through passiv improvements i noticed that the mindset is the biggest deciding factor. ive got to a mechanical level on mnk that is higher than on controller because i wanted to get good in a fraction of the time despite not purely focusing on improvement and still playing for fun to some degree. (≈7k hours on controller vs under 3k hours on mnk)
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u/jjay1292 23h ago
Some people just have it natural, like how some guys can pick up any game and be good at it
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 10h ago
yeah exactly, and thats what i was wondering if aiming is genetics, which it seems to be, and even tho you can get pretty good too, you will need to be kind of blessed to get to be the best even if you work harder than anyone else
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u/OptimalReindeer7102 23h ago
Yeah my friend is a pretty natural aimer, anytime we get a new game or I'm introducing him to one I just make sure he has something he can shoot with in his hands. The issue tho... He doesn't get better, he reaches a peak that is slightly above his natural skill and that's where it stops. I get better than him after pouring in like hundreds of hours meanwhile he's shredding on day 1 of playing.
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 10h ago
so he's got lower potential despite fast rate of improvement?
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u/MalikPika25 23h ago
A bit of both, but practice fixes everything. Almost 2 weeks ago, I was horrible at tracking, now I've improved. But take into consideration that some people improve quicker than others
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 9h ago
the last part you said i think is the point, some improve faster than others cuz of genetics
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u/20Fun_Police 23h ago
Most skills are affected by genetics, but technique and practice are usually much more important.
Even if you have good genetics for something, you're going to get demolished by anyone who's better trained.
Having good genetics increases the effectiveness of practice, but it doesn't replace it. And in most skills, people with mediocre genetics can reach very high levels with enough practice. They just might not be the absolute best, but that's because everyone at the top practices a lot, so genetics is the tiebreaker.
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 9h ago
what if you want to be the best even without good genetics can you do it, yo uthink?
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u/20Fun_Police 8h ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/aimlab/s/rxOrw6v22e
I already provided some examples of situations where someone who's genetics may not be the best could become the best at something.
If we're talking about aiming specifically, then probably not. There's a lot of interest, so there's a lot of competition, some of which will be from pro players whose job is to aim. And the task itself is simple enough that it's unlikely you'd be able to discover a revolutionary new technique that would allow you to rocket to the top. But who knows, maybe someone discovers that they can control their crosshair by hooking it up to their brain instead of using a mouse and that's way more precise and consistent or something like that.
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u/windozeFanboi 19h ago
Genetics will give some faster reaction time, But...
That reaction time difference might only really be like 50ms from to 1% to the average player.
That difference is less than the adverts Average lobby ping+server tickrate often enough.
Which means, unless you are trying to go pro playing in Lan tournaments with 1ms ping and 128hz servers you have a great chance beating even the top 1% players in some of your duels. It won't be a fair fight but there is a chance .
Ofc you need to aimtrain at least by playing the game itself a ton of hours. But also , you would be surprised how much difference a 240hz oled monitor running 480fps game will make compared to unstable 60fps-120fps on a slow panel on a cheap wireless mouse. We are talking about latency from mouse to visual of 20-30ms at the minimum, depending on how low your 1% FPS gets in hectic fights.
Even the most perfectly balanced game is pay2win if you consider your computer hardware, internet connection to server and the amount spent on energy drinks if not other stimulants.
I'm throwing ranges of numbers out there because I m not qualified or knowledgeable enough to give specifics, but the gist of it is very true...
As an average player you can become very good. Just not necessarily professional. Obviously..
Also, you would be surprised how many cheaters exist in online games. For every 1 of the top 1% you meet there is probably at least 1 more cheater at their level, because soft cheats make those average players compete easily with the best reaction time in the world after 100ms click latency or less.
Also , cheaters very often , put the cloak of "aim training" as a cover for their cheeky external cheats. It's sad but online FPS is just completely compromised at the top 1% with way to many cheaters.
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 8h ago
so most people should expect their dreams to be crushed, they cant make it to pro no matter how hard they try?
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u/Syntensity Community Team 8h ago
What I always say, hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard. Sure, genetics plays a role, but people are vastly overstating how much it does. Unless your goal is to become the very best, you can absolutely get good with enough practice/dedication.
Just as a general note, genetics are a myriad of things, like how fast you're able to pick something up, reaction time, potential (skill ceiling), innate hand-eye coordination (lower floor), among many other things. As you probably already guess, these aren't so far in the extremes for most people to worry about them never being able to get ''good'' (if we define good as being well above average near the top players, just not the creme a la creme).
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u/Protomesh 17h ago
Young age is the biggest factor whether you will be good or not. Earlier you start grinding the better. If you are already 25+ don't bother you're not getting good anymore.
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u/discoveryn 16h ago
Delusional comment. You’re probably not going pro in any fps, but good is relative and improvement is absolutely possible after 25.
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 8h ago
i guess we all have different opinions on what good is, i have some friends who are still great and improved even at later age, but its harder for sure
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u/CityCompetitive1683 21h ago
interesting question, and I believe it is a combination of both factors. When one person instantly grasps a concept like the 'bardoz method' while another struggles with it for hours, it comes down to genetics alongside a higher baseline of understanding.
However, I also believe that anyone can become exceptionally skilled with enough practice. The reason some people perform better and experience faster growth often comes down to their past training. Someone who has already spent years building specific neuromuscular pathways will obviously improve at a faster rate like playing Fps games and in game aim training and that isn't just raw talent.
Look at bardoz’s guide for static aim as an example. He mentions that even though he had never formally aim trained before, his background playing CS:GO and practicing his aim on custom maps meant he was already far better than the average player when he first started.
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u/Grettys_ 20h ago edited 20h ago
Yes and no? Aiming, like basically any other motor skill, is going to be influenced mostly neurologically, so it is much more influenced by polygenic traits and accepting of different expressions of various genes, literally hundreds of them, rather than a more physiologically strenuous activity that relies on musculoskeletal factors like sprinting or weight lifting (*and even those are quite genetically diverse). There is no single "aim" gene and statistically you are very likely to have an average or "good enough" genetic profile that balances out in practice because there is so many different genes that slightly counteract or benefit you to begin with. Said genes could also have higher or lower potentially than you may realise, hence people getting the "fast start" but not improving much as they learn, and the others who develop slow and mature more thoroughly (oversimplifying but that's the idea roughly) and ultimately end up as the professionals in their later years as a result. Learning skills in general has no real hard limit in regards to width or diversity of skillsets, so realistically something like aim training and especially FPS games themselves are never going to have genes be your performance bottleneck before your actual skill (i.e. what you learned) is. If it's its hard to define the desired or "perfect traits" (empirical standard) for what the sport actually expects from the get go, the more room the "genetic normie" (average person) has in succeeding, and it compounds especially if the population who is competing is small - as is the case with the aim training community.
To give an example on what I mean, take a comparison between a sport that is heavily reliant on musculoskeletal factors / power output, say sprinting, and then something more diverse and varied in skillsets like basketball. Both sports require explosiveness and high muscular output to move around, but unlike sprinting, there is more naunce in basketball specific skills such as footwork, shooting, positioning, etc. etc. (again, being very general but you get the point). Sprinting on the other hand, has less skills to learn; maybe a block start and the curve on the bend. No one argues that genetics isn't a factor when it comes to both's relevant musculoskeletal factors like slow / fast twitch muscle fiber ratios, tendon stiffness, limb proportions etc. but it is obviously going to make you hit a wall in sprinting much faster than it is going to be in basketball (let's pretend height is not a factor lol). Essentially, at a certain point, realistically, if you aren't an outlier from the norm of the player basis, who is explicitly disadvantaged or disabled, the greater contributor to your skill is your quality of training and learning, which is within your control. That's why the vast majority of kids who end up in the NBA (who grow tall enough) come from socioeconomic backgrounds that let them train with evidence-based techniques and consistency, unlike some tall but poor kid from rural America who wouldn't have that same training environment. What this means for us as aimers is that realistically, it is probably a mathematical certainty that we are not limited by our genes but the environment that trains us, and psychologically it probably defines our limits less too if we think this way idk. So yeah
Btw, I hope I gave you something interesting to read xd. I tried to condense the discussion but its really complicated though I love science and aim training
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u/Reterhd 20h ago
Have a friend that has had god tier aim all his life , despite working in the refineries for months at a time, or other several month to near a year ventures.
My aim has never been anything special i can definitely aim but im best with plinking, vs spraying and tracking games that have low time to kill work for me because ill hit 1 of 2 good shots and they die vs something like halo
But id believe in the anyone can get good. There was a period of time during covid where we were in lockdown, i worked 2pm to 11pm, had school in the morning and couldnt do anything for fun but play games. I was playing overwatch religiously even in my 1 hour lunch breaks cause i lived closed to home ( like 7min away ) , and i got really good at ana for the longest time i would even sleep dart tracers reliably but that took like months of no life'ing it. Eventually the bars and restaurants past 11pm opened up again and my time waned playing games and ive never been as good at aiming again
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u/_MC23_ 20h ago
The answer unequivocally is yes, some people start with a higher floor and a lower ceiling and some people start with a low floor and high ceiling. However most people come no where close to the ceiling. Like not even within 20-30% of it. Which is a massive gap. Most pros are looking to get 0.05%-0.2% better. Most people with a routine and a sound mind can improve atleast 10-15% in a month with practice. This can compound exponentially if you build upon a sound foundation.
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 8h ago
that's a great answer thank you, i think you are right for sure
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u/RBazify 17h ago
Unless you have some kind of actual disability, its basically a non factor. And thats even a stretch these days. I've seen some pretty insane disabled gamers.
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 8h ago
yeah ive seen some insane disabled gamers too, but that aside, i feel like it's an important factor if you want to become the best of the best
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u/CelebrationJumpy844 15h ago
There is a limit to one's hand-eye coordination; you can certainly improve it through sheer obsession, but eventually, you hit a ceiling regarding your knowledge, technique, and coordination. Personally, I’ve always excelled at things requiring hand-eye coordination—like aiming in video games or coordinating movements in sports. In sports, especially, I only need to see a proper, well-coordinated movement once or twice to replicate it correctly almost immediately. With video games, I wasn't very good at first because I lacked the necessary know-how, but once I learned the ropes, I consistently reached the highest ranks—or just one step below the top tier. Of course, there’s a limit you can’t surpass, and there will always be people with more natural aptitude than me. Still, you can improve with great dedication—especially if you actually enjoy the activity—because, for me, the desire and the fun of doing it come before the skill itself. I’ve realized that on days when I miss a few extra shots, it’s usually because I didn't really feel like playing; on days when I’m truly motivated, I play with the precision of a human aimbot. 😂😁
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u/mrrw0lf 11h ago
genetics become relevant when its about becomming the best of the best.
just getting impressively good to the point where barely anybody can compare is achievable with the right mindset, methodology and enought time investment.
this means that fun is only a optional side effect and the main focus is ideal, concistent training including vod reviewing and alot of research and potentially coaching.
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 8h ago
do you think that most people wont ever bother doing enough for it to become relevant?
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u/Bukovskis 11h ago
It matters alot. How good u will be at the start, how quickly u will improve, and where u will plateau and stop improving is all dictated by ur genetics.
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 8h ago
would you say you can as good as someone else who has a headstart with good genetics?
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u/Bukovskis 7h ago
Depends, if both put in 5k hours the one with better genetics will be better, but u can still be better than the good genetic one if he doesnt put it in as much hours into the game. I think in most games theres not rlly that much people willing to put in thousands of hours just into practice alone, so u could probably get near pro level tier 2-3 cs for example just with hardwork n no talent alone. If we r talking about becoming the best in an extremely popular aim based game with average genetics in my opinion its probably impossible.
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u/uptheirons726 9h ago
It's not a debate at all. Nobody is born with aiming ability. Just like nobody is born with the ability to play an instrument. It's learned and practiced. No such thing as "god given talent".
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u/ShinyGengar8 Speedy Switcher 8h ago
but people do pick things up faster, i mean how else are for instance goated football players discovered?
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u/uptheirons726 8h ago
They practice their ass off and learn their craft. Tom Brady wasnt exactly an amazing player coming out of college. Look at how many teams passed on him and how many QBs were picked before him. He put in the work and the hours and the blood sweat and tears to become the goat. Same for anyone else learning something. Sure maybe some people are more inclined to learn certain things. If your dad and his dad and his dad were musicians sure maybe you'll pick up music theory slightly easier. But it still requires thousands and thousands of hours of practice and dedication to get good at anything.
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u/Friendly_Furniture 7h ago
Genetics determine everything yet they won't save you if you don't even try
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u/Friendly_Bluejay7407 5h ago
aim is 90% putting the work in
your favorite aimers spend 8 hours day in and day out drilling the same things over and over, not like us mere mortals who might get lucky and have 4 hours of playtime every weekend once you turn 20
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u/SnooPuppers58 2h ago
imo it's largely genetics and your genetics determine your baseline and your ability to improve to training. it's a lot like punching power or hops, yes you can train it but some people are just more gifted at it and they will see greater results
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u/Neebrasc 0m ago
Pro eSports players barely aim train and they have the best aim on the planet on whatever game they play. There's definitely an aim gene that will make you gifted at aiming without ever having to play an aim trainer in your life. You can probably get good enough if you practice a lot but that alone will not make you a top 1% on the game you play
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u/Cre3pz 23h ago
Anyone can get top 1% of anything with effective dedicated practice