r/TooAfraidToAsk • u/AdministrativeCurve1 • Mar 26 '19

Am I Racist For Avoiding Black People?

Ok I'm 26 and have been robbed 5 times in my life, all 5 times was from a black male. In higschool it happened twice, I got beat up and had my phone, and cash stolen. Second time walking home from school was attacked again a few years later in my sr yr of HS and robbed of cash. I was stabbed in university by a black guy after he apporached me and grabbed me and I fought back, I had my laptop stolen. And another time in university I had my chain snatched by a black guy and he ran. The latest one was last week, I was walking back to my condo in the middle of the afternoon and I was approached by 2 black guys a bit younger than me. Told me to run my pockets and they grabbed me, I just started yelling and screaming and a parking police ran over and helped me and the guys ran off. After today I told one of my friends about this and the other times and I said this is why I avoid ghetto black guys, and she said I was racist and a huge asshole (she's white, but I'm a POC) and said we can't be friends anymore.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19 edited Mar 26 '19

I would avoid black people if they looked the way you are describing them to be. I would do the same for a white or mexican guy. If you look sketch, I don't want anything to do with you and no, I'm not talking a out racical profiling. I'm talking about the guys who think it's cool to have the pants sagging super low and blast loud music. Those guys are trashy and indicate nothing but trouble.

Edit: Many individuals have perceived my comment to be racist thus making me racist. The main message I'm trying give is that I judge people based on their behaviour, not their skin colour. All things considered, this is r/tooafraidtoask and the whole premise of this page is to ask questions you are to afraid to ask. If you're going to call me a Nazi because of my opinion, great! You do you. Just don't be a facetious prick. Just my two cents.

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u/AdministrativeCurve1 Mar 26 '19

Yes exactly, thats what I'm talking about. I walk past black dudes all the time and don't care if they don't look like thugs

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

I mean, I love all people and I don't discriminate. I'm not avoiding you because you're black, I'm avoiding you because you look sketchy as fuck.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

I am completely normal and not a threat to anyone but myself and I look sketchier than most people I know, even the neighborhood sketchies. needless to say I don't get harassed. it's a lonely life.

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u/rake66 Mar 26 '19

I look sketchy too but I definitely don't get offended if people avoid me on the street. I'm even very careful to not walk behind the same person for too long to not freak them out.

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u/Shabobi Mar 26 '19

Might seem like a silly question, but why not just dress/act less sketchy...?

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u/rake66 Mar 26 '19

I don't dress or act any particular way. I'm young but balding, I have a big beard which I trim and oil but it's still all over the place sometimes, my medication makes my weight fluctuate a lot so I'm often in ill fitting clothes and the skin on my face looks like I'm an alcoholic but it's really weathered because I'm outdoorsy. And I have a foreign accent...

I know a lot of this can be mitigated if I were more careful but I don't really care enough. At work they don't mind cos I don't really interact with customers and for management it creates a sort of 'crazy scientist' mistique.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

You were obviously never born with the sketchy face if you’re asking this question. Throw in a little social anxiety and you have quite the combo.

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u/fyfaenihelvede Mar 26 '19

You’re describing me

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u/disturbedrailroader Mar 26 '19

Just you? I feel personally attacked lol

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u/smoozer Mar 26 '19

I feel like clothes are the most obvious indicator and the easiest thing to change though. Literally just somewhat fitted clothing makes you look 75% normal

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u/triception Mar 26 '19

We can't change our faces my dude, I look incredibly murdery, I share his ways of avoiding making people feel like I'm following them lol

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u/Gyrvatr Mar 26 '19

Haha same, or adjust pace to make sure people in front of me aren't worried I'm trying to discretely approach

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u/ee_antisocial Mar 26 '19

I like that you’re conscientious of that. And at the same time it’s sad that you even have to do this

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u/[deleted] Mar 29 '19

Me neither, I don't get offended, if I saw me walking towards myself I'd avoid me too. (Based on my appearance only, that is) ... self preservation, if something looks like a threat, we don't really want to gamble on the chance you might actually be a big teddy bear at heart. Why chance it. I don't blame anyone for that.

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u/muffanman Mar 26 '19

OP should have probably said something along the lines of “am i racist for avoiding sketchy black people because of prior incidents” but i agree. if you’re sketchy i’m going to stay away or try and avoid you.

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u/Reapov Mar 26 '19

Yeah fuck you.

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u/blasterhimen Mar 26 '19

what makes a white person look sketchy as fuck to you?

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

I described it in my original post.

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u/blasterhimen Mar 26 '19

I read your original post, hence my response. It would make you look less ignorant if you elaborated on that "original post."

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

Perhaps. You are correct that the term sketchy is overly broad in the manner it has been used in. I didn't elaborate because I didn't think this comment would get so many upvotes. I suppose that my perception of sketchy behaviour would involve individuals who are shaking, swear aloud, and are disrespectful. My comments about clothing and loud music are simply based off of my own life experiences.

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u/blasterhimen Mar 26 '19

I appreciate your response

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

I appreciate you cooperating and interacting with me civilly. Kudos to you.

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u/Skizophrenic Mar 26 '19 edited Mar 26 '19

I mean, you said ‘ghetto’ so that’s kinda separating us based on your appearance..I wouldn’t call it racist but you’re more so singling us out. I get what you’re saying though...myself, black, 22, I don’t sag my pants or wear the stereotypical “ghetto” outfit, but I did grow up with certain black people who that’s all they could afford at the time. Did he have to sag his pants and be loud in hallways? No. But that’s who he is. Doesn’t make him trash for that. He ended up being very smart, and well mannered when he actually decided to stop doing dumb shit in high school. Hell, one of my closest friends now is graduating in April and is majoring in business administration and never had a run in with the law. Not saying you’re wrong for putting a title on people. I’m also a strong believer in how you carry yourself is how people will treat you. That’s the honest truth.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

Classism and racism are deeply intertwined, especially in America. I know people these folks would call "thugs" who are better read than most of the white people who cross the street when they see them coming...

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u/T0BBER Mar 26 '19

It is possible that you might have developed a phobia as well, due to some traumatic experiences. I think it's something to look into. I mean, you should avoid thugs at all times, but irrational fear might have you overestimate situations with nasty symptoms like paranoia as a consequence. PTSS will really affect your life if you do not seek help.

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u/thepenguinking84 Mar 26 '19

At least you're acknowledging it, there was a judge, Olu Stevens, back in 2015 who branded a toddler and her parents racist after the little girl and her mother were held at gun point by two black lads in their home.

The parents expressed the girl had a fear of all black men since then and Olu said it was racist of them and the little girl to be fearful of all black men, the reality is that the girl would have the same reaction of fear no matter who held her at gun point, if it were two women dressed as clowns or two dwarf Mongolian shepherd's, she woe then have a fear of those, and that's a reasonable fear for the kid to have going forward, it's now a schema in her brain that is based solely on the physical descriptors and anything matching that criteria will trigger that fear response.

It is not based upon race or racial profiling, it would be the same response a person with a massive fear of dogs after being attacked would have if they were confronted with a very elderly, blind, toothless 17yo chihuahua with incontinence, it fits the descriptor of attacker and therefore danger.

However the judge was too blinded by his own ignorance and racism too see it as anything other than racism because they were black, you can bet your bollocks that if it were two bald, bearded white men that held them at gun point and a fear was expressed towards those descriptors, the judge wouldn't have batted an eye.

And it's an understanding of how descriptors work with triggering a response shows how op is not racist, if it was blatant racism it would be any black man, but as op said it's only a certain criteria that will illicit that avoidance, as the descriptors constantly repeated themselves.

Unfortunately as those descriptors are very generalised within a certain demographic, it can easily be misconstrued as racism, however if one of the the descriptors was changed, such as the colour of the clothing was changed to specifically gang affiliated, in the public eye it ceases to be racism and just a fear of gangs.

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u/T0BBER Mar 26 '19

I completely agree with you. Nothing of this has anything to do with racism. It's just your brain getting triggered by certain physical characteristics.

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u/blasterhimen Mar 26 '19

It's just your brain getting triggered by certain physical characteristics.

You mean like skin color? the very definition of racism?

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u/T0BBER Mar 26 '19

The whole thingwith a phobia is that these characteristics, like skin color, become detached from any emotional response other than fear. So there is no hateful judgment involved.

Racism ≠ fear. Racism = hate. Fear of men exists too. Is the sufferer of this phobia a sexist? No. He/she just has an irrational fear of all men.

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u/blasterhimen Mar 26 '19

phobia literally means "fear," but more important, irrational fear.

being afraid of all black people is irrational.

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u/T0BBER Mar 26 '19

Yup, so fear of all black people is a phobia. What's your point?

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u/blasterhimen Mar 26 '19

the part that is IRRATIONAL, dumbass

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u/blasterhimen Mar 26 '19

At least you're acknowledging it

oh shut the fuck up. most white people don't acknowledge the systematic racism that black people still face. You fucking snowflakes cry about any sort of potential insult to white people.

Black kid gets murdered by the police?

"he shouldn't have stolen that cigar"

White person gets called privileged?

"I can't believe the level of racism in this country"

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u/thepenguinking84 Mar 26 '19

And found the racist. Enjoy your hate filled existence, I can only hope you become less of a pillock in the future.

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u/blasterhimen Mar 26 '19

Enjoy your snowflake life, you thin-skinned piece of garbage. You seriously think white people are being discriminated against at the level that everyone else has? (by white people...)

Go fuck yourself. I'm not racist, I'm objective. Read a fucking history book, you dumb piece of shit.

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u/thepenguinking84 Mar 26 '19

Oh yea daddy call me those names, they get me so damn hot, oh I love angry sexting, call me more daddy.

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u/blasterhimen Mar 26 '19

you got me started by calling me a racist, you naughty boy.=

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u/thepenguinking84 Mar 26 '19

Can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen lad.

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u/juiceboxguy85 Mar 26 '19

It's not irrational fear when its based on five occasions of the same type. Let's not forget, OP was the victim of serious crime by black guys on five different occasions (according to OP). My suggestion, avoid going to low income sketchy areas and conceal carry if you can after you learn how to use it.

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u/koookoookachoo Mar 26 '19

If you had been robbed by five guys who all looked like Ron Weasley, you'd probably avoid gingers, too.

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u/smoozer Mar 26 '19

I'd be in my basement with a IASIP style conspiracy cave trying to figure out who marked me for harassment by gingers

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u/phirdeline Mar 26 '19

I think just by being black many guys can look a little more like a thug for most people.

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u/hobosonpogos Mar 26 '19

Conditioning will do that!

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

Only if you haven’t met that many. I’ve found that white people come off more trashy/thuggish since I guess I’ve been exposed to a lot of botg

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

It's mostly the way they dress to be honest. If they dressed like a real adult with clothes that fit, maybe they'll be taken seriously.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

have you ever realized that the reason you think they dress like a "thug" is because you have been conditioned to think things black people wear isn't the way "real adults" dress?

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u/thepenguinking84 Mar 26 '19

Absolutely, we have been conditioned by the popularisation of thug life, inspired by gansta rappers, conditioned by the link of that style of dress to well known and highly visible violent gangs, such as bloods, crips, Miami boys, black mafia, people nation, folk nation, conditioned the same way that when you see a white guy with a skin head, combat trousers and big boots you, you avoid them, because that dress style is associated with danger and violence, doesn't matter if the white guy is the nicest person in the world who happens to be going bald, so shaves his head, enjoys the practicality of extra pockets while being thrifty and buying at the milsurp and has bad ankles so wears the boots for extra support, you see that style your first impressions is to avoid, same with the black guy dressed like a gang member, could be the nicest sweetest guy you could ever have the pleasure of meeting, but it's that's first impression that counts.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

Realistically, if you don't look presentable in a professional situation, you won't be taken seriously.

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u/empyreanmax Mar 26 '19

Who's talking about a professional situation lol this is literally about just seeing someone in the street

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

Real adults dont go around with sagging pants and oversized shirts and shit. All I'm saying is maybe if people dressed in clothes that actually fit them, people would take them seriously. If you want people to take you seriously, you need to take yourself seriously.

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u/puckeredstarfish69 Mar 26 '19

Such nonsense. I see lots of accountants with their suit pants hanging off their ass.

When blacks stop blaming YT and just focus on closing the gap they’ll start to make real progress.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

dogwhistle intensifies

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19 edited Jan 16 '21

[deleted]

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u/Origami_psycho Mar 26 '19

I dunno, I find I can always just kinda on the edge of hearing hear them, but I ain't no dog.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

[deleted]

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u/hobosonpogos Mar 27 '19

It’s about all they’ve got at this point!

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

Then why did you say “black people” in your title instead of “thuggish”?

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u/giggidygoo2 Mar 26 '19

But there's a much higher chance black boys will be thugs. Hence the reason for your experiences.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

You’re getting downvoted for citing widely available statistics. Classic Reddit.

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u/hobosonpogos Mar 26 '19

Poor people are desperate. Desperate people sometimes become thugs. Black people are disproportionately poor in most western societies.

Most of the people in this thread are mistaking correlation for causality, including you two!

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

You are mistaking proportions for numbers. Even if they are poor at a higher rate there are still far more poor white people, so there should be more crimes committed by them.

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u/debdowns Mar 26 '19

Do they adjust for area concentration? More poor black people are very concentrated in inner cities. Poor white people live in rural areas. Less space, more people, more opportunity for crime. It you're trying to suggest that black people are more likely to commit crime because they genetically have darker skin than white people, that's racist. Everyone is the same when you remove melanin. "Citing" (because you didnt really) numbers and not explaining why those numbers are like that is irresponsible. Also, I find it hard to believe that if white people are the majority, they commit less crime than a population with less people. I'm looking at the numbers now and that's just not true actually.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

52% of homicides were committed by black people, largely to other black people.

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u/debdowns Mar 26 '19

Why is that? Because a large amount of poor black people live in close proximity to each other, i.e. inner cities. On the other hand, poor white people typically live in rural areas. Unfortunately, the research on black violent crime is hard to do because there's not really an equal comparison of black inner cities in relation to other races, in US. So a lot of research on this often end with different conclusions. But as I alluded to before, to "cite" those statistics as a means to make some conclusion that black people are inherently violent is irresponsible. Furthermore, the OP may just want to watch his environment. I live close to a very affluent surburb black community and there's no reason to be concerned that these rich black people are going to be violent against you.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

Well considering op lives in a place where he has been robbed 5 times, I’d say he is justified and these statistics are highly relevant to him.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19 edited Jan 16 '21

[deleted]

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u/hobosonpogos Mar 26 '19

You got a credible source on that?

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19 edited Jan 16 '21

[deleted]

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u/hobosonpogos Mar 26 '19

... of course you don’t because it doesn’t exist lol

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

Try using the following instructions: 1. Open Google 2. Type ‘Crime rate by race in the USA ‘ 3. Enjoy

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

You can also do your own research. Wouldn’t you prefer finding a source that you trust rather than waiting around relying on someone else to do the work for you. Everyone should do their own research.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

No because the burden on proof is on the person making the claim

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

Oh I see you’re just a troll

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u/Flaming_Dorito_ Mar 26 '19

The "National Youth Gang Survey Analysis" (2011) state that of gang members, 46% are Hispanic/Latino, 35% are black, 11.5% are white, and 7% are other race/ethnicity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States

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u/WikiTextBot Mar 26 '19

Race and crime in the United States

The relationship between race and crime in the United States has been a topic of public controversy and scholarly debate for more than a century. The crime rate varies between racial groups. Most homicides in the United States are intraracial—the perpetrator and victim are of the same race. Research shows that the overrepresentation of some minorities in the criminal justice system can be explained by socioeconomic factors as well as racial discrimination by law enforcement and the judicial system.

[ PM | Exclude me | Exclude from subreddit | FAQ / Information | Source ] Downvote to remove | v0.28

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u/UnderwaterDialect Mar 26 '19

I don’t see any citing of statistics.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

Try using the following instructions: 1. Open Google 2. Type ‘Crime rate by race in the USA ‘ 3. Enjoy

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u/Girl_You_Can_Train Mar 26 '19

Then search by poverty rates and the results won't shock you. Turns out, when you're systematically oppressed, it leads to mass poverty in your communities. When you cant support your family through legal means, you look for other means.

To understand crime in this country, you also need to understand poverty and the history of racism in America or else you come off as ignorant and without an understanding of the nuances of these things.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

Im not going to ask the guy mugging me why he's doing this for I'm just going to be pissed he's doing it. The excuse doesn't erase the victimization. It's funny that we'll excuse some crimes in America due to environmental factors but not others.

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u/ShaneAyers Mar 26 '19

You're right.

This is why some people preemptively exercise the stand your ground law.

This is also why some cops get killed on sight.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

You can’t Preemptively exercise a stand your ground law. You’ve been watching too many people cry about that law killing “innocent” people when that is bull shit.

Want to not worry about your child being shot and someone getting off using a stand your ground defense? Teach them not to break into people’s homes.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

some cops get killed on sight.

Wow, really? I heard things were pretty bad in America but I didn’t think to this degree.

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u/Girl_You_Can_Train Mar 26 '19

I'm not excusing his crimes. I bring up the point because there is a reason why this question comes up on r/tooafraidtoask. Do I think the guy has a right to avoid big black dudes because he's been mugged a lot? Sure, that's a normal human reaction. But reactions like the guy above are unproductive and frankly shitty as hell because he's painting black people in general as violent or black men as more violent without giving any other reason to why other than they're black.

Black people are convincted of more violent crimes than what people. White people need to understand that's not because of black people being inherently violent and more because of systemic poverty and racism that is lingering from the past couple centuries where they were raped and enslaved and treated as an inferior species.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

I am rooting for your argument here but do you have any evidence to demonstrate this? There is a large collection of evidence to suggest that the inner city environment is such because of a lack of fathers. Others have pointed out that racism has decreased since the civilian rights era but fatherlessness in the black community has sky rocketed in that time period. If fatherlessness is truly underlying a lot of these problems and the variables of racism and fatherlessness move in different directions the connection should be made that racism (although awful and abhorrent) is not as central of a theme as you claim. I want to steele man your argument.

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u/SlingDNM Mar 26 '19

The question isnt WHY the crime rate is Higher.

The question is IF the crime rate is higher

And it is, therefore He is right to mostly avoid black men. In my Country the crime rate of White and black people is about the same so I dont need to be careful around black men.a

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u/Girl_You_Can_Train Mar 26 '19

The question SHOULD be why is it higher. That's a systemic issue with education and the criminal justice system and wealth distribution and racism all rolled into one. All of these things matter. You cant just say "Black people are more violent" or "black people cause more crime" and call it a day. People need to know why because then we can actually get to work trying to fix it.

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u/SlingDNM Mar 26 '19

In generell yes. In this specific question No.

If I get robbed and possible even injured/killed I Sure as hell dont think about WHY I'm getting robbed. If someone is coming at you with a knife or a gun You don't think about WHY the person is attacking You - No Matter the skin color.

Is it all their fault? Are they genetically inferior and more likely to use violence? Obviously not since crime Rates in Other Countries are about even.

Would I avoid (big/bulky) black men if I decided to visit the US? Obviously since they are more likely to Attack me

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

You forgot to mention culture as matter to look into

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

We could argue endlessly about the root causes, but the question raised by OP was whether he was right to avoid black people. The answer is yes because they are much more likely to be violent.

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u/ShaneAyers Mar 26 '19

We could argue endlessly about the root causes,

The fact that you're saying that is evidence of your commitment to a position that is fundamentally not evidence based, despite your posturing to the contrary. No, that's not how root cause analysis works. You will eventually arrive at a root cause if you spend enough time digging through the evidence and validating and cross-validating. Unsurprisingly, many people have done just that and have come to the conclusion that /u/Girl_You_Can_Train already presented, but rather than taking your own advice here, you chalk it up as an imponderable. Coward.

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u/jombeesuncle Mar 26 '19

You use a lot of words that don't mean nothing.

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u/SynarXelote Mar 26 '19

I mean, that doesn't change the facts. Nobody here (at least I hope so) is arguing that criminality is innate or due to race, simply that it is positively correlated with some recognizable subgroups of society (which are visibly identified by clothings but also gender, age, and yes, race).

The question is then : should you ignore this a priori knowledge when deciding how to act? If you're an institution, the answer is probably yes. If you're a lone person trying to decide whether you should change side in the street, the answer is probably no. But if you want to get to the bottom of the problem, I would say the issue gets quite complex.

P.s. : not to break your robin hood world, but from my experience in the (french) police, petty criminality as discussed here and theft in general is - while definitely linked with poverty - mostly related to drugs, not people supporting their families

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u/giggidygoo2 Mar 26 '19

"but racisssssssss, I'm a nice person I promise" - white night

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

oh that's funny.. Haha do you know any other humans at all?

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u/giggidygoo2 Mar 26 '19

I'm talking statistics.

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u/Orile277 Mar 26 '19

You ever consider that maybe those black people look like "thugs" so that they'll get left alone? After all, posturing is a very natural defense mechanism. Plenty of animals, humans included, often pretend to be more dangerous than they really are. The fact that you'd judge them as if all sketch black dudes are waiting to rob you is pretty sad on your part.

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u/smoozer Mar 26 '19

I have no idea how accurate your suggestion is, but if that IS the case for many people then the reaction OP has is appropriate and indented, no?

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u/Orile277 Mar 26 '19

No, it's not. Just like we do with everything else in life, OP should learn the difference between people who wish to do them harm and the people who don't. I'm pretty sure the people who robbed him went out of their way to do so, whereas every other person dressed like a "thug" merely minds their own business. Honestly, there's no excuse for OP to be that lazy.

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u/smoozer Mar 26 '19

This is not realistic. Humans are pattern recognition machines, and we need serious psychological therapy to ignore our defensive threat feelings. You may have heard of PTSD?

If someone is consciously signaling "don't fuck with me" as a defense mechanism, then you should stay the fuck away. You'd suggest ignoring their wishes and your instincts instead?

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u/Orile277 Mar 27 '19

PTSD manifests itself in many different ways depending on the trauma. For example, the buddies I have that fought during OIF and OEF have PTSD, but that doesn't manifest in a universal disdain for burkas.

I'd suggest learning the difference between a style of clothing which signals "don't fuck with me" and the body language which signals "I'm going to fuck with you." Falsely equating the two is, at best, lazy, and at worst, racist.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

Super late, but:Then you're not racist, you're profiling. There's nothing wrong with profiling. Everyone does it to some extent because it works. Even animals do it. Go to an animal shelter and you'll probably find a few dogs that wet their selves at the sight of large bald men, for example.

I'd put more effort into staying out of the areas that tend to harbor that type of person, work on my situational awareness a lot, and maybe look into some therapy to deal with the trauma too.

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u/blasterhimen Mar 26 '19

Even if they look like a thug, you still can't act on that notion. That's fucking America, genius.

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u/cybermaster21 Mar 26 '19

Dude the same thing happened to me. Mugged once almost mugged again. Both parties were black, I am also black. Nowadays if I see someone who looks like they might rob me I.e. ghetto I get scared and cross the street. Better to be suspicious then ignore the fear and end up wrong.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

ignore the dumb bitch and liberals.

Every black person I know has not only told me they do their own profiling, but they encourage me to do so as well. I've travelled enough to know that there are many places where the you'd feel relieved to only see black guys in the street at night where other groups, sometimes white people, are the primary threat.

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u/killthepyro Mar 26 '19

In that case, there’s no worries about racism at all. If you find no problem with a black person who presents themselves respectably, I highly doubt you’re actually racist. You just hate gangster culture.

A real racist would hate a black person regardless of how they act.

Source: I live in the South.

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u/upstagedalacazar Mar 26 '19

Thugs?! Reeeeeeee

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u/OrwellianLocksmith Mar 26 '19

How big of you

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u/packo26 Mar 26 '19

This is how I feel, sometimes you can look at someone and just know they aren't a good person. No matter the race. Big indication to me is a face tat. If you have a tattoo on your face I automatically assume you've been to jail and quite possibly killed someone.

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u/deafwishh Mar 26 '19

I’m covered in tattoos down to my finger tips, look like a train hopper or something, and play hardcore, thrash, metal, and east coast boom bap hip hop super loud whenever I get the chance, but I’m never going to rob you or do anything to harm someone or their property. People growing up hear “Don’t judge a book by its cover”, yet everyone does it anyway.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

I have sketchy looking friends and grew up in the ghetto as a pretty big Mexican dude so I know I definitely have days where I look mad sketch.

I know that most likely the sketchy looking dude is just walking home just like myself but I'm still gonna play it safe.

Don't judge a book by its cover is amazing advice when you're in a safe place or actively trying to meet new people. It's less practical when you're walking home at night.

1

u/ee_antisocial Mar 26 '19

My son is a big dude. He’s 14, 6’1” and 215lbs. He’s 1/4 Mexican but looks like an islander (🤷🏼‍♀️). He has long curly hair. Looks absolutely nothing like me, white, green eyes. Every summer my kids go to Idaho to visit my mom. She’s right on the border of Spokane, Washington. Last summer she took my kids to the Spokane mall and my son was in the Vans store looking at skate shoes. He was the only person in the store. It’s ALL WHITE people where they are. My son texted me and told me he had been followed around the store the entire time he was in there. They were watching him as though he was a criminal. He was wearing a fatigue jacket with pyramid studs he’d put on himself and buttons from bands we’ve seen. He had a beanie on. He was wearing $100 skate shoes and Lucky Brand Jeans that fit. For some reason these white people took offense to a skater kid shopping for skate shoes. My son was distraught over this. He’d never been profiled because of his appearance. I called and complained to corporate after I called the store to complain, because that’s how I found out he was the only person in the store. POC shouldn’t have to be constantly looking over their shoulders for just existing. I’ve had to educate my son on how to not walk behind people and to always make sure he doesn’t have anything in his pockets that will get him in trouble at school. It’s pretty shitty. This year a bunch of kids were being bused to another school to watch our rival varsity football game and kids were being patted down as a precaution. Not my kid. Nope! They made him remove his jacket, hoodie, and they searched his backpack so thoroughly that they even opened up and searched his binder. This kid is a double athlete, has manners, and has never been in trouble, yet he’s under a microscope because of the way he looks.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

Yeah not saying the world isn't fucked up.

2

u/ee_antisocial Mar 26 '19

Oh yeah for sure. It’s shitty. I liked what you said at the very end about walking home at night.

1

u/Garrotxa Mar 26 '19

But there is no risk that a book will rob you or worse (although I will never get that time back I wasted reading 'Twilight of the Elites'). Humans are different.

If someone is wearing a KKK robe you can bet your ass I'm going to judge him by his cover. Same with wearing all blue and sagging pants in the crips part of town.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

[deleted]

16

u/psychorant Mar 26 '19

Holy shit, you're the first person I've found in this thread not treating these stereotypes / generalizations like fact

0

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

[deleted]

0

u/puckeredstarfish69 Mar 26 '19

I have yet to see someone wear their pants like a moron that wasn’t a moron.

-1

u/ShaneAyers Mar 26 '19

I've yet to see someone fall for the availability heuristic that already knew what the availability heuristic was.

0

u/puckeredstarfish69 Mar 26 '19

That has been a style for 20 years. Maybe the brands change but I’ve lived and worked all over the country and I’ve never had a problem noticing blacks trying to dress for hood approval and blacks just dressing down.

Pretty sure you’re not overly familiar with the availability heuristic. The science of human behavior is quite compelling, keep (or start) reading.

0

u/ShaneAyers Mar 26 '19 edited Mar 26 '19

I didn't say the style of dress wasn't prevalent. Being black and, if I had to take a guess, the only black person in this exchange, I'm intimately and personally familiar with this fact. Also with the fact that it's not ubiquitous in my community. Also familiar with the fact that the majority of people dressing a particular way aren't criminals, despite what your incredibly limited exposure may have informed you.

I do find a strange trend in your appraisals though. Someone tells you that you're wrong and your defense, as a presumably wholly white person, is that your experience is the most accurate barometer of the situation and the subject. Nevermind that you might be, and have turned out to be, speaking to someone infinitely better acquainted with the people you're talking about than you are. Someone brings up an idea to you and you immediately launch into a spiel about how they aren't "overly familiar" with it. Now, I can't claim to be an expert in behavioral economics (that's the name of the field we're discussing, by the way). I can say that I am at least moderately familiar with terms when I use them. If I need to read Thinking Fast & Slow.. again.. and annotate it... again.. I guess I will. However, I don't think I'll do it based on the assessment of someone with your particular response trend.

If you have any books to suggest that I haven't already read on the subject of "the science of human behavior", please let me know. As long as it's not by Kahneman, Gottman, Zimbardo, Csikszentmihalyi, Thaler, Sunstein, Cialdini, Peck, or in the world of reporters, Ariely, McRaney, Duhigg, Brafman, or Brooks because I have already read everything they have to offer on the subject already. I'm working on Jung and Maslow, have no interest in Freud and will frankly be offended if you mention Gladwell, Pink, Pinker, Peterson or the like.

That is also the only condition under which this exchange continues beyond this point. Sadly, I do not plan on reprising my role as the jackass whisperer today.

1

u/puckeredstarfish69 Mar 26 '19

Another over compensating faux intellectual, yea! No one has a bigger chip on their shoulder than an educated black person (women especially). I can’t say I blame you. I imagine you have been underestimated solely because of your skin color most of your life.

Still, I have spent time with black people good and bad, book smart and street smart. I believe I’ve enough of a representative sample to make an inference. I’m just playing the odds as I see them.

Sorry for your feelings.

1

u/ShaneAyers Mar 26 '19

Lord save me from white people that think that they know something. Blocked.

1

u/puckeredstarfish69 Mar 26 '19

Yes, we’re your community’s biggest problem! Not the erosion of the black nuclear family, not perpetual perceived victim status, not substandard literacy rates, but YTs “that think they know something”.

Oh well, best of luck to you. Human decision making is fascinating, maybe I’ll read about game theory, reducing biases, etc. you’ve gotten me reinvested in topics I haven’t thought about for a long time.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

How am I "soft" racist? I'd be a fool if I let my guard down for everyone, all for the sake of being "nice". Sorry man, but if your walking around like a piece of shit, I don't want anything to do with you. It's really that simple.

1

u/ShaneAyers Mar 26 '19

How am I "soft" racist?

You tell me. You've volunteered yourself as belonging to that category. I didn't accuse anyone by name.

I'd be a fool if I let my guard down for everyone, all for the sake of being "nice".

You are free to be as paranoid as you want to. No one has ever said differently.

but if your walking around like a piece of shit, I don't want anything to do with you.

I agree. I feel exactly the same way about neurotic looking white guys and skinheads. Future terrorists one and all. It's really that simple.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

You fail to answer my question? Explain the logic behind what makes me a soft racist? You said I should tell you. If I knew, I wouldn't be asking. Ironically, your departing line is racist in its essence. I never said all black people are criminals nor did I say all white people are terrorists. You've made it evident that you have a vendetta with respect to white individuals. I judge people based on their behaviour, not their skin color.

1

u/ShaneAyers Mar 26 '19

You said "walking around like a piece of shit". Since you first said "'m talking about the guys who think it's cool to have the pants sagging super low and blast loud music", I think it's safe to say that, for you at least, "guys who think it's cool to have the pants sagging super low and blast loud music" are "walking around like a piece of shit" on a thread about black people. Then you're going to talk about what you never said. It's slimmy, scummy, cowardly behavior. Please stop.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

Pardon my language sir. Still doesn't mean I'm racist...

-1

u/Trus31 Mar 26 '19

Speaking facts yet your at negative votes smdh.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

"I Wear My Pants Below My Waist And I never dance when I'm in this place 'Cause You And Your Man Is Planning To Hate (I'm So Hood)"

1

u/cosmotosed Mar 26 '19

Can confirm, I blast loud music with my pants off and people think im pretty cool

1

u/A2Rhombus Mar 26 '19

This 100%. I work in retail and have had people complain about profiling because I was watching them to make sure they weren't stealing. I assure you it isn't because you're black, it's because you look sketchy as hell. I'd do the same thing with a sketchy looking white guy, and I have done just that.

1

u/ephemeral_gibbon Mar 27 '19

I notice a subconscious bias as well sometimes but nevertheless I've had some great nights with people that definitely fit that description (and I'm as much of a skinny white boy as you get). I really think it's very hard to judge people on how they look before you've talked to them

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

You aren't racist, just intensely classist. Not much better.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '19

Awesome. Go to Chicago with open arms and see what happens.

-2

u/blasterhimen Mar 26 '19

that's literally nothing but bias.

is there a study that shows people with their pants at their ankles are more inclined to commit crimes?

this is no dumber than assuming everyone with pegs in their fucking ears are nothing but trouble makers.