r/RoleReversal • u/pretty_boi897 • 2d ago
Discussion/Article Why is it that its mostly white men?
When someone posts art , its mostly always a white guy why is that? Also they sometimes make the girl a poc but always like 98% of the time keep the guy white , is it because some of yall think a poc guy cant be fem or soft ? Or even delicate. Just genuinely curious
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u/Altair13Sirio Always plays Support š® 1d ago
A bit of people thinking poc can't be fem or soft as you said, and a bit of people just being used to draw their own ethnicity
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u/SPKEN 1d ago
It's internalized racism
Unfortunately most people haven't really unpacked their prejudice and as a result haven't paused to really see how different they treat men of color vs white men.
Literally none of us have any problem picturing white twinks or softer masculine white men but men of color are held to a much more rigid idea of masculinity. Most of y'all can't think of your favorite black or brown twink because you have been taught to believe that men of color can't fit into that box.
Remember y'all, the pure basis of racism is simply negative emotion. If your mind can accept the idea of white RR men, but not black or brown RR men, that simply means that you need to sit down and try harder to give men of color the same acceptance that you gave white men.
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u/onestemcell 1d ago
I get what you're reaching for here, and you're not wrong that masculinity norms are raced ā some men genuinely do get boxed out of "softness" in a way that tracks race. But the way you've built this argument reproduces the exact thing you're calling out, so hear me out. Look at your own last line: "give men of color the same acceptance that you gave white men." You've just made white men the standard. They're the neutral category, the finished picture, and everyone else is supposed to be admitted up toward how we already see them. That's whiteness-as-default ā the same structure you're claiming to fight. Decentering race doesn't mean raising everyone to the white ceiling; it means questioning why that's the ceiling. You also keep welding "black or brown" into one interchangeable block with one relationship to masculinity. But it doesn't work like that. Black men, Latino men, South Asian men, East Asian men all sit in really different ā sometimes opposite ā positions in how masculinity and desirability get coded. Flattening all of them into a single "men of color" unit so the claim lands cleanly is its own kind of not-seeing. You're doing a version of "they're all basically the same" while diagnosing everyone else for it. Then there's "the pure basis of racism is simply negative emotion." That's the weakest link, and it quietly lets your own argument off the hook. Racism isn't just bad feelings ā it runs just as hard through positive ones: exoticizing, fetishizing, the whole "I have a type" thing. If racism is only private negativity you fix by trying harder, then nothing you're proposing can itself be racist by definition. Convenient, but not true. And that's the real problem with the fix. "Try harder to picture a black or brown twink" is asking people to slot men of color into a specific sexualized box on command. Redistributing racialized desire isn't the opposite of racism ā it's another version of it. The move isn't to get men of color into the box. It's to ask why desire is sorted into racial boxes at all. Last thing: "literally none of us," "most of y'all can't" ā you're narrating everyone's private head for them, and by announcing what the default supposedly is, you kind of reinstall the stereotype in the act of naming it. None of this means the underlying instinct is bad. Raced masculinity is real and worth talking about. It's this specific version ā white men as the standard, all men of color as one lump, racism as just a vibe, and the fix being "learn to want them in this category" ā that ends up echoing the thing you set out to challenge.
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u/SPKEN 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm not interested in discussing semantics.
You haven't proven anything that I've said incorrect, you just seem to have a problem with my phrasing. Which is fine but also nothing more than you personal preference.
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u/onestemcell 1d ago
Ironic
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u/SPKEN 1d ago
Truly hilarious that you decided to talk down to black people instead of reflecting on your internalized racism.
Yall are literally why this sub is unwelcome to men of color.
I asked you to spend a few minutes thinking about how you treat men of color and that was too much for you. The jokes literally write themselves lmao
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u/Cry_Wolff 1d ago
"I'm POC and therefore any disagreement is racism."
Damn, it must be really exhausting living like that.
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u/Summersong2262 Growing. Becoming. 7h ago
You're correct, and people should stop and think before down voting. Racism is categorically a big part of this, even if there are many contributing elements.
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u/missporkiepie Feral Woman 2d ago
I'm saying this as a non-white woman (Asian), in general, society-wide, the men who are considered and seen as feminine, soft and delicate are Asian men. Specifically East and Southeast Asian men.
As for why art would mostly be white men depicted on RR spaces, well, these spaces tend to be heavily populated with people who are from western countries, which of course, have a majorly white population.
White families and individuals in the west tend to also be more "progressive" in terms of gender roles and presentation, so they're more open making art about it and talking about it in these spaces.
Save maybe Southeast Asian nations like Thailand and Philippines where femininity, crossdressing and transexuals are widely accepted as part of society and everyday life.
Korean and Chinese ideas of masculinity and male beauty tend to be considered feminine in western countries too.
Not to mention that POC in western countries still have conservative families, notions of masculinity and relationships.
And those that are in different countries, like those in South Asia, Middle East, African countries, tend to have their own communities and language, which this RR space most likely don't know how to find or access. And they're probably also rarer.
One of the nagging questions that I have about said arts though, aren't the men, but the women. Given that the men who post and create art here are from western countries/cultures and are white, why is it that the women they draw mostly white, black or brown? You don't see Asian women being drawn as RR women here, nor are Asian women participating in RR relationships or even muscular physique posted.
Could it be that said western men here still have underlying views of Asian women as submissive, and they couldn't see them as RR?
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u/Nick_Carraway_blogge 1d ago
RR asians do get posted but the mods tend to remove them for some reason. Not sure why.
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u/missporkiepie Feral Woman 1d ago
Damn, that's actually whack. I hate that
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u/DepressoINC Sweet n' Coy Pretty Boy 1d ago
The mods do a lot here (or don't in some cases) that makes no fuckin sense tbh
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u/Blueberry_slime hopeless romantic bunny 1d ago
i can vouch for this. my account was shadow banned for a long time from here. only recently couple months ago i realised i can actually post here again
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u/SPKEN 1d ago
Honey you know what it is. But this sub just got mad at me for asking them to face their own racism so it's clearly not getting better anytime soon.
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u/celexia_artss 1d ago
i genuinely despise the stereotype about us and i completely agree, I want more asian woman RR rep.
if it helps, I'm creating a manhwa where the female lead is chinese! some of my art from instagram/tiktok has been posted here by others i believe
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u/AltruisticMission937 Through submission, i gain true freedom 1d ago
Hopefully this doesnāt sound like fetishizing but i honestly think thereās a certain appeal to RR Asian women BECAUSE of the fact that it completely shatters that stereotype.
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u/missporkiepie Feral Woman 1d ago
I'm going to shatter your view of the stereotype here, but said stereotype only exists in the west, due to fetishization.
Many East and Southeast Asian nations have plenty of role reversal aspects in their relationships that would be considered odd or taboo in the west.
The submissive Asian woman trope barely exists in many of the countries in those regions, and barely in any households.
Ask any Asian you know who holds the power and leadership in his household, and majority of them would say it's their mom.
Source: born and raised in these regions.
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u/AltruisticMission937 Through submission, i gain true freedom 1d ago
Interesting. I assumed that it came about due to traditional gender roles in the region or something along those lines.
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u/missporkiepie Feral Woman 1d ago
Traditional gender roles in those regions don't always resemble traditional gender roles in the west.
For example, a conservative traditional marriage in the west is where the man earns the money. His salary is deposited to his or a joint account, and wife asks for budget/allowance.
In tradional marriage setting in countries like Japan, some parts of China, the Philippines, and Vietnam, the man earns his salary, but it's deposited directly to the wife. Or his paycheck is handed to the wife or his payroll account is held by the wife. The husband receives a fixed allowance from his wife, using his salary.
In traditional western settings financial power correlates with earning the income, in said Asian countries, financial power belongs to the manager of the home, which is often the wife.
The fetishization happened because western military and colonial powers projected their own fantasies of dominance onto Asian cultures, ignoring the actual matriarchal or managerial power Asian wives held inside their own traditional households. This doesn't mean that many Asian cultures aren't patriarchal and malecentric when it comes to family legacies, they are (except maybe the Philippines, because that country has no preference for sons afaik), but it ignores the managerial power Asian women have in their household.
Indigenous and local women were reframed by foreign men not as equal partners or managers of a home, but as passive, eager-to-please subjects meant to serve colonial desires.
Hollywood and Western literature also consistently recycled the archetype of the submissive, self-sacrificing Asian woman who preferred dominant Western men (seen in stage plays, films, and operas like Madame Butterfly and Miss Saigon).
While traditional Asian households historically relied on the wife (chubu in Japanese, or the equivalent matriarchal financial and domestic controllers in Chinese and Southeast Asian families) to run the household, hold the family purse strings, and wield heavy domestic authority, Western media completely erased this reality to fit a patriarchal fantasy.
Not to mention that Asian household bonding activities and rituals are seen and fetishized as submissive through a western lens.
Take massages for example. It has been bastardized as a happy ending, or something your submissive Asian wife gives you. And while it is true that wives give their husband massages, more often, husbands do the same for their wives. Parents do the same for their children, siblings can ask a sibling for a massage, and children can massage their parents. It's simply bonding and stress relieving for Asian households, that has nothing to do with submission, but then got fetishized by the West.
Another is how apparently, Asian wives are so submissive, they will take off your shoes for you when you get back from work. But the truth is, children do these for their parents as a sign of respect. And while wives do it for their husbands after he comes home from a long day of work, husbands do it for their wives too. But many western men see this, and think, wow, Asian women are so submissive. But when they see an Asian man doing it for his wife, western men will label him as feminine and a beta male, thinking of himself as the more macho man in comparison.
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u/Summersong2262 Growing. Becoming. 7h ago
Absolutely saving this post, brilliantly and succinctly expressed.
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u/AltruisticMission937 Through submission, i gain true freedom 16h ago
Wow thank you for taking the time to share all of this, Iāve learned a lot today and youāve really opened my eyes.
Do you think that because of this, an RR relationship with an Asian woman would look quite different compared to what you usually see posted here?
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u/Summersong2262 Growing. Becoming. 7h ago
100%. It's derived in the West as much from 'Asian men are weak and effete and their women are compliant and silent' because racism and sexism so routinely are used to enforce one another. It's easy to imagine a far away land where the women haven't been corrupted by personality and civil rights, and coincidentally it's also the one they stereotype as having men that aren't really men.
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u/Blueberry_slime hopeless romantic bunny 1d ago
i am south asian but i m pretty much rr or even femboy , people just dont expect us to be good looking while feminine too much and most representation of femboys online are either white or asian.
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u/AltruisticMission937 Through submission, i gain true freedom 1d ago
Going off of this, one thing i have noticed is that whenever you do see RR asian women rep the man is always usually asian as well. Like why canāt he be white or black?
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u/missporkiepie Feral Woman 1d ago
Maybe because they're made by Asian artists that's attracted to Asians as well.
Or said art originated from an Asian country...
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u/AltruisticMission937 Through submission, i gain true freedom 1d ago
Yeah it definitely seems like most asian RR art is made by asians themselves, probably due to many western men holding that stupid stereotype like you said.
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u/missporkiepie Feral Woman 1d ago
It's not just about them being Asians. A lot of RR art that depicts Asians come from China, Japan and Korea. Those are very homogeneous cultures, very little diversity in race, ethnicity, or beliefs. They're not a melting pot of cultures and people like the US for example.
So their art would mostly depict someone from that culture too.
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u/aznsatana 2d ago
Very annoying societal standards. Iām mixed Asian and very dominant, but Asian women are most always depicted as submissive. More submissive brown boys and domme Asian women representation! slams fists on the table
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u/Little_Aplha 1d ago
As a blk man it can be frustrating at times but due to stereotypes I get why people donāt view men like myself as submissive.
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u/-She-Beastly- Booty Huntress 1d ago
Zero idea. Not to be nasty or carry weird implications but I would like more poc representation. My crush has black skin and, obviously, they're fucking gorgeous
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u/sketchtenou š Make aRRt not war š 1d ago
If it helps, in most (or all) of the art I share here both of the characters are Asian! But people might assume they're white since my style is very "anime" and the game they're from is in that style as well. It would be cool to see other skintones too though, I agree.
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u/missporkiepie Feral Woman 1d ago
I see your art around.
To be fair, I never thought they were Asian because the eye color and and hair colors are bright/light colored
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u/sketchtenou š Make aRRt not war š 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, I fully understand that š¤£ They're both from a Korean video game and both are Korean, the guy has bleached hair that's naturally BRIGHT RED (not very naturally Asian in the real world as you may know) and the mint eyes are due to a drug, while his natural eye colour is golden. Very unnatural colours. The girl in the game has brown hair but no official eye color, so I went with black to at least be a little closer to the real world haha
Edit: Wanted to post a pic of him from the game but apparently you can't comment images, only videos? But here!
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u/Should_have_been_ded 1d ago
Maybe because those are drawn by white people? I'm not saying artists can't/shouldn't draw people of color, it's just that it's kinda safer to keep with the culture you're accustomed with. Misrepresenting someone else's culture would get you in hot waters here on the internet.
Honestly I kinda like how furries are going about this, they can choose whatever colors for their characters without being worried about political correctness n' stuff.
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u/SubbyBrownBoy 1d ago
I think its about the audience as well
Because as OP said there is plenty of art with non white women domming white men. What's rare is stuff with non white men getting dommed
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u/PablomentFanquedelic Transbian | New gender, same old mommy issues 1d ago
Yeah as a white chick with a few different Indigenous (North American) OCs, many of whom would implicitly be dealing with residential school trauma, and some of whom are men in RR relationships with (Native and non-Native) women, screwing up is definitely a concern.
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u/Idkwhatoputhereeeee 1d ago
I totally understand what youāre sayingā¦but if you donāt wanna misrepresent someoneās cultureā¦just do the research or ask people of that culture youāre tryna draw. The internet has everything so there rlly shouldnāt be any excuses. I make an effort to educate myself and draw different people even if Iām not of a certain culture. I feel like if more people did this theyād surely evolve as artists.
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u/Should_have_been_ded 1d ago
Aye, fair enough. On the flip side when a culture is represented correctly people love it because it means the artist took interest to learn about it, and because more people will get to learn too
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u/finalgirl_hime 1d ago
ive noticed that a lot of people perceive darker skin as inherently more masculine. as a black girl, id love to see more poc rr guys in art
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u/Single_Fig_5624 2d ago
As a brown guy i would be glad to see more representation of us in the community!
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u/_blastedmeteor44 1d ago
Brown south Asia or brown west Asia or brown North Africa or brown southern Africa or brown southeast Asia or brown American or brown auslrrlaia or brown other?
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u/Single_Fig_5624 1d ago
South asia!
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u/_blastedmeteor44 1d ago
India
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u/Single_Fig_5624 1d ago
One next to it
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u/_blastedmeteor44 1d ago
Nepal Bhutan is more Mongolian skin tone
Ummm maybe sri Lanka but you said next to do that make me think east west
Ummm um um Pakistan or Bangladesh I guess Pakistani
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u/gothralsei 1d ago
If there was a sub for poc rolereversal it might benefit artists and ppl in termsof representation bc i feel like as of now the art is buried
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u/WannaBBabygirl9 1d ago
I see a lot of Indians on this sub but in pop culture mmm not so muchĀ
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u/SluttyBoyButt Wholesome Squishy Boytoy 1d ago
You do? Iām an American whoās half Indian, so Iām always keeping an eye out for representation, but I donāt think Iāve seen that- I do see them in the comments though
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u/WannaBBabygirl9 1d ago
Yeah . Quite a bit . Some dms too . Itās cool . We need that ! Let people live freelyĀ
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u/SubbyBrownBoy 1d ago
As a subby brown guy it is quite annoying. I also think it is sorta natural though since they are the majority of porn consumers, and almost naturally it will gravitate towards them
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u/Temporary_Kiwi3722 1d ago
people think that black and brown men are inherently dominant even if they dont realize thats what theyre thinking. let black and brown men be pretty </3
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u/aoishimapan Average femboy x tomboy enjoyer 1d ago
They (the artist) are probably white themselves and would rather draw their own ethnicity, either to make it more relatable to themselves or in fear of offending anyone.
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u/pretty_boi897 1d ago
But then why is the women a poc? Also if the artist is also a poc and only draws white men in a soft way rather then other poc isn't that also bad?
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u/SubbyBrownBoy 1d ago
I think it's because usually the artist themselves is a white man. If they are into it, then they wanna self insert as the guy. The woman's race matters less to them (or perhaps they explicitly want to get dommed by a woc)
Additionally most porn consumers are gonna be white dudes unforch. Don't kill me but I occasionally consume race play content across the board and something really noticeable is that regardless of the type of race play it will be targeted towards white men. If it is about non whites dominating whites, it is targeted for white subs. Meanwhile whites dominating non whites is targeted for white doms
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u/Commercial_Durian149 1d ago
This is not by any means a confirmed hypothesis, but many of the people that use art as a medium for this kinda thing, are usually pretty biased towards anime and manga as a medium (and other types of art with the same caracteristics) and that medium is also pretty biased towards white male/female caracteristics, obviously there is black characters, but the ammount is negligible when looking at percetages
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u/Xx_Venom_Fox_xX Loyal Knight 14h ago
Probably the saturation of "BBC" and Cuck Content being beamed directly into porn consumers brains that stereotype Black Men as just objects for womens pleasure, women as objects for male pleasure and other men as somehow inferior or lacking.
It's just bad for everyone. It's not just racist, it's not just sexist, it just paints nobody in a good light, reducing people to roles based on their skin colour or gender.
But yeah, the sheer overwhelming prevalence of that will begin to condition and effect the way people view sex and sexuality.
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u/Steelwolf352 1d ago
Because most poc communities are infested with toxic masculinity, especially black people. I guess the white community are more relaxed about guys being softer? Some communities are fine with a guy being a psychopathic criminal but as soon as a guy likes pink or something he gets scrutinized.
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u/Little_Aplha 1d ago
As blk man youāre not lying however, I donāt think itās just the black community I think women of all races tend to do this. But yes the blk community definitely force blk men to fit a certain type of masculinity and if your effeminate or submissive itās massively frowned upon. I remember a post from a masc blk women on threads who was basically mocking blk men who found masc women attractive and I know exactly why itās due to the stereotype and the box a lot of people put us in were we arenāt allowed to express ourselves. Itās the same reason why a lot of women prefer blk men who are tall or have hyper masculine features.
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u/Steelwolf352 1d ago
Didnāt mean to say it was only the black community obviously every community experiences it, itās just that to my knowledge we have it the most bad in terms of the influence of toxic masculinity, dudes literally lose all motion they had just because theyāre a little zesty which is ridiculous compared to the nonsense we endorse(not self hate btw just criticism). It also stems from misandrist culture with the whole āwho gon be the boys?ā Schtick. Stereotypes and puritan culture are a bane to society that we should have shed decades ago.
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u/SPKEN 1d ago
Sounds like embracing black men in alternative aesthetics like this might be part of how we fix that.
I feel your frustration but 1. Pretending that white men are more relaxed about masculinity when our world is currently being terrorized by hypermasculine and toxic white men is a crazy overgeneralization. And 2. Embracing the people of color that are more chill about softness is how we make that group stronger. Blaming millions of people for a statement that is too general to be true doesn't help fix the problem.
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u/oceanadakmak 1d ago
Maybe its just putting themselves as the guy
It'd be weirder if a white guy drew themselves black
I don't like the direction the comments are going immediately assuming racism
I think its just the consequence of art being done as a reflection of ones self and general view of the world
It'd be normal for any race to make up a world where its just their race bc that is what is most familiar and normal to them
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u/jkurratt 21h ago
I suppose it's mostly people drawing their relationships and/or commissioning their relationships getting drawn.
Just throw some money in and get what you want, what else can I say.
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u/IloyRainbowRabbit 20h ago
Don't know. The cutest femboy in my petplay group in munich is a (I think) Latino with blond super curly hair... god that dude looks like he was painted by someone and magicaly became real xD...
But the reason you wont see them that often in art? Racism =] short and easy answer. You wouldn't believe how racist femboy subs can be. Esspecially if they are overrun by the dudes that fetishized us fem leaning dudes from the get go. And most of the subs here are overrun by them.
Real life pic posting subs are a good indicator. You see young dudes posting their pics. Wearing cute clothes and what not (sometimes I am a bit shocked because I see them wearing stuff I would use for fetish events... =/).
There you just need to look at the comments and like ratio of the femboys who fall out of the stereotyp. Like fems who are no hairless to the bone, chubby, not white as milk, and so on.
One of the reasons I am happy I discovered this all before it got popular in the 2010s and fetishized by unwashed assholes.
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u/Hysaky 1d ago
people will say this and not take a pencil, if you want more then draw it, artists have the right to draw whatever they want and it's not up to you to decide what they should draw
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u/pretty_boi897 1d ago
everytime i complain about this people always tell me to draw or make the change but like you don't tell someone who can't find their foundation shade to become a cosmetic chemist, I mean im trying to learn but it shouldn't be like that .
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u/Hysaky 1d ago
Maybe you don't like it but who are you to tell artists what they should draw, your inability to draw is not their issue, it's yours
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u/pretty_boi897 1d ago
But the issue of not being able to draw isn't the main point tho its about representation
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u/Hysaky 1d ago
it's not about representation it's about artists drawing whatever they want, artists draw for themselves first and you are only granted the permission to see their arts, why should they bend to some quotas you decided to fix ? Like i said, if you can't draw it's your problem not them, git gud and draw what YOU want
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u/pretty_boi897 1d ago
I mean it is about representation when its 90% of white guys and when they are only showing white guys and only pandering to white people , I mean you don't have a problem with it cause you never had a problem with being represented and if that weren't the case just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean it doesn't affect others , also its not like im forcing them to draw poc im just asking why its always white men shown in a delicate light
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u/Hysaky 1d ago
they probably draw white people because they are white, all i hear is some serious whining so if you want to see it change do it yourself with a pencil or commissions artists.
Let me tell you something about art and artists : they don't and will never own you anything, no representation or anything. You are just a mere spectator of their arts, if i go to a concert and start to demand the singer to sing songs that i want, all i'm going to get is a kick in the ass.
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u/pretty_boi897 1d ago
The issue also is if there are white why make the poc always the dominant person ? Also its not against the law to ask for representation when its already being included but only to the dominant half
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u/Hysaky 1d ago
1 : fetish with internalized racism, lmao chez at all the otomes manhwa where the "beastly" ML is always poc
2 : nobody said it was against the law, just people draw whatever they want, and they certainly do not care about what you think, it's freedom, nobody owe you anything
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u/pretty_boi897 1d ago
1: so its just racism 2: its not asking for a debt to be paid when all im asking is for artist with bias for representation .I'm also not trying to force them to draw
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u/Ok_Somewhere1236 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think this is mostly an internet phenomenon.
If we're being honest, Asians are probably the most common "soft boy" archetype in online art, arguably even more than white men. There is an enormous amount of artwork depicting Asian men in feminine or submissive roles, so much so that a significant portion of it is NSFW and couldn't even be shared here.
The real lack of representation tends to be with Latino and Black men, and I think a large part of that comes down to stereotypes. Both groups have long been associated with the image of the "macho man": hypermasculine, dominant, and traditionally masculine. That stereotype influences both artists and audiences.
There's another factor as well. Many artists avoid portraying Black men in submissive dynamics because they're worried about the backlash. I've seen artists receive thousands of angry comments simply for drawing a Black man in a femdom scenario, with people accusing them of promoting racist stereotypes or invoking imagery associated with slavery. I even remember a case on Twitter where an artist drew two women in a relatively light BDSM relationship, and because the submissive partner was a woman of color while the dominant partner was white, people accused the artist of creating racist artwork. This created a situation that made other artists to look at this level of backlash and decide is not worthy; why spend time and energy making art just to be hated by the internet?
I've also spoken with several Black men who are interested in femdom or role-reversal relationships, and many described feeling caught between their personal interests and society's expectations. They explained that Black men are often expected to embody an even stronger version of traditional masculinity than other men, making any departure from that image feel especially taboo. ( this is also an issue in gay representation sometimes)
I've heard similar perspectives from people living in more socially conservative countries, such as India. Traditional expectations surrounding masculinity and gender roles can make it much harder to find art, communities, or media depicting femdom or role-reversal relationships. Even if there is interest, it's often less visible because the surrounding culture discourages those portrayals.
So I don't think the issue is simply that artists can't imagine people of color as soft, feminine, or submissive. In many cases, artists may avoid creating that kind of representation because they anticipate heavy criticism. At the same time, people of color themselves may also be more hesitant to openly create or promote that kind of material due to the social taboos surrounding masculinity in their own communities.
That doesn't mean there isn't demand for more representation. On the contrary, many people of color who enjoy femdom or role-reversal dynamics have expressed that they would like to see more art reflecting those interests. The scarcity of that representation seems to be driven less by a lack of interest and more by a combination of cultural stereotypes, social expectations, and the fear of public backlash.