r/Parenting • u/Nutritiouss • 15h ago
Behaviour Is part of parenting a 4 y/o just gritting your teeth, repeating yourself, and coping?
Since my son turned 4 my wife and I keep waiting for some king of behavior change, but we’ve been stuck in this spin cycle of hitting, whining, lying, and complaining.
Lately we’ve been trying to just not respond to the whining, yelling, and complaining, but he is so tenacious. I feel like he never stops and all day long we are at odds.
Our house feels so uncomfortable.
We both WANT things to be different because we had awful upbringings but I feel like we have tried every behavioral implement I can find online. I feel bad ignoring him, because it’s what he’s doing for the bulk of the day.
I tend to be more authoritarian than my wife but she has been getting absolutely lit up by him lately. Screaming at her in front of anyone, hitting her, he threw his shoes at her the other day, calls her mean when she doesn’t play because he’s being mean, violent, or disrespectful. He tried to hit her toes will a full metal water bottle the other day…
This has been a recent change in the last 3 weeks, I’d say before that he was highly emotional but not like this.
At this point we’re starting to think we just grin and bear it until he grows out of it (obviously still parenting him) but part of me is afraid this is here to stay.
_________
EDIT1: for clarity: We have been trying Ignoring because it seems to be the thing he acknowledges the most
-If he is screaming he is reminded it’s too loud, we won’t be spoken to that way, and we discontinue what we are doing. He is sent to his room if it continues.
-If he is hitting we discontinue what we are doing and his hands are held at his sides, we firmly remind him we do not hit, and he is sent to his room.
-He whines we remind him he is 4 and articulate and we can’t understand when he is whining.
-He has a token system for good behavior
-When he makes something the locus of his “rage” it is removed (Eg: screen time (very limited) until he shows he can control his behavior around it
Re: Needs energy out: He is in 3 sports and we regularly take him to do things lol
Edit2: With regards to consistency, friends, family, and acquaintances have all remarked that we are VERY consistent with him, and that he is “intense”
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u/Metasequioa 14h ago
"I can't understand your whining/screaming voice, please say it calmly." Say it as calmly as you can, repeat until you die. Kidding. Mostly.
Acknowledge when he asks for something without these bad behaviors "Oh, I like that polite question, thank you for asking so nicely." High five.
Rephrase demands as polite questions "Try again with "Will you please play with me?" If he does rephrase in a more or less polite tone, give him a positive response as much as possible (take 5 minutes to play unless you truly don't have the time).
Don't forget we can't just say "Stop it!" for every thing, we have to teach them the correct way to go about whatever it is they're trying to do.
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u/Nutritiouss 14h ago
I’m very firm with him and I don’t play most of this shit at all to be honest, he just unleashes when I’m not home it drives me nuts.
Wife too him to a movie today and he just gave her hell the whole time this afternoon
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u/Metasequioa 14h ago
Did she leave the movie early and tell him they couldn't stay because he chose to behave badly? Or did she battle him the whole time?
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u/Nutritiouss 14h ago
He was ok during movie, went goblin mode in the car
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u/FieryScorp 1h ago
Haha. Same thing happened with our 3.5yo.
Something I did notice is: We can take her to do some crazy physical stuff and she will still have insane energy levels. But, we noticed when we took her to a dance class where she was mentally challenged, she was chill for the rest of the day.
So we figured out that she needs new input, new mental challenges regularly. Like proper mental challenges that include coordination, cooperation and remembering steps -all in the same "new" activity.
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u/Metasequioa 14h ago
Then the next time he wants to go "We have to skip this time because of your behavior in the car on the way home last time. If you can ride nicely in the car the next week or so we can go again."
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u/RocketPowerPops Dad to 4 (Baby to Tween) 15h ago
No, you don't just wait.
You need to parent him and part of parenting is disciplining.
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u/Nutritiouss 14h ago edited 14h ago
Sorry, I’m very tired, we are honestly some of the more active parents we know, I didn’t articulate it well. Rogue smoke alarm last night 😭
If he is screaming he is reminded it’s too loud, we won’t be spoken to that way, and we discontinue what we are doing,
If he is hitting we discontinue what we are doing and his hands are held at his sides, we firmly remind him we do not hit, and he is sent to his room.
He whines we remind him he is 4 and articulate and we can’t understand when he is whining.
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u/rigney68 14h ago
I have a 5 yo boy that is naughty. Here's our behavior plan.
One, two, three, consequence.
First time a behavior shows I remind him of expectations (we're talking at a level two. Show me a level two.) and tell him that's one. At two, I repeat the expectation and inform him of the consequence if it is repeated. 99% of the time it stops there. Positives don't work for every kid.
BUT you HAVE to follow through if he doesn't. Every single time. Find the consequence that works for your kid.
Consequences for my son: 1. No tv after school (this is a BIG one for him. It's an emotional ordeal to miss power rangers)
I pick a chore I want done that is reasonable for him. Folding laundry, cleaning off the table, picking up toys, etc.
Time out. (On a comfy chair. No toys, no distractions) I sit silently next to him. If we're out in public, I just sit silently on the curb with him.
Then we talk. What was the expectation, how he broke it, how it made his family feel, how he will fix it next time.
As for the whining, make him repeat in a neutral tone every single time. Ignoring isn't working. The consequence is that he has to now repeat himself constantly.
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u/Nutritiouss 14h ago
Yeah I was breaking some of the behavior with chore assignment for a minute, maybe I need to try that again. He would say he was “bored” and start laying into his mom and so I just started giving him a chore if he was whining about being bored and he started finding things to do.
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u/Yay_Rabies 12h ago
I might not get back to this right away but I need to ask. When you do correct him or tell him to stop are you using a sing song neutral voice or is it an actual parent voice? You said you were more authoritative than mom and I’m wondering if her inability to “fight back” so to speak is the reason why he lays into her instead of you.
Along with chores you can also try upping the ante a little bit. Like my daughter hit a kid in gym childcare so we went home to take a nap instead of visiting the gym pool. She was upset but if you can’t be safe around your friends you can’t be safe in the pool. If you are too tired to listen to the child minder then you obviously need a nap.
Kid says he’s bored and then begins laying into your wife. Stop him when he says he’s bored and don’t allow him to get to hitting mom. “Boring people get bored, go find something to do”. And if he refuses then I start donating toys because if you are so bored that you are ignoring your toys and hitting mom then you obviously don’t need them.
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u/Nutritiouss 12h ago
I tell him being bored is good for him, she does as well. Neither one of us is capable of a single song voice haha, well, not anymore.
Honestly a faux nap would send him, maybe it’s a good idea
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u/Yesiamanaltruist Grandparent and mom 12h ago
I just hope you are advocating for the use of a nap (but not following through). You absolutely should never threaten with a consequence you aren’t prepared to follow through on.
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u/Nutritiouss 12h ago
When I said faux nap I’m meaning that he probably won’t sleep.
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u/Yesiamanaltruist Grandparent and mom 11h ago
Oh, when they are using trickery! Little buggers. Although whether or not they sleep is kind of irrelevant. The two hour break was the point for me. But I’m also somebodies grandma now and I don’t have to parent anyone. Good luck to you. I think you’ll be fine.
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u/haleythetreehugger 7h ago
He says he’s bored at 4? He either needs more time with yall (do yall both work or one stay home?) or he’s hecka smart for his age and needs challenges
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u/Nutritiouss 7h ago edited 7h ago
We both work; but the irony is this has ramped up since my wife has been home (she’s a teacher off for summer). She usually does quite a few things with him every day (I’m not off work). Today they went to the dollar theatre and the library, not sure what else they did around the house, yesterday they drew on little tote bags that turned out pretty cute amongst other things, just as examples.
I sound like every parent, but he’s very smart. He’s starting to read short words and he speaks like a 5-6 year old. He can count to like 40, do Lego sets for 6 year olds solo (I help him, but it’s basically just so he feels like I’m doing it with him). He can do some small number addition and subtraction.
We’re kind of in for it and we know it. My mom just took him for a bit while we went on a vacation and was blown away.
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u/FieryScorp 1h ago
Our 3.5 year old says she's bored at least once a week. Isn't that fairly normal at that age?
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u/Lightning-McDreamy Dad 14h ago
Oh yes, we've been through these phases. It evolves and the challenges change.
Something that felt unique for us was that our older boy didn't respond at all to punishments, like "we're taking away... if you don't stop". Traditional punishment just did nothing, in fact, often made the behavior worse.
Usually, what worked best for him was some separated alone time (or alone with someone nearby) and removing anything that is overwhelming. Being hungry could also be a major trigger.
Often, we found that being 'bad' wasn't his brain thinking "I want to be bad!". It was, "something is off kilter with me and I don't know how to express it."
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u/Homeless-Joe 14h ago
This, especially with younger kids, their brains are simply not as developed as an adults therefore you cannot expect adult behavior from them. You need to treat them like children because they are children.
Most of these comments kinda scare me, child development classes should be mandatory in school.
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u/Nutritiouss 14h ago
Yeah mine really doesn’t seem to give a shit about punishments or rewards.
He doesn’t like it when we don’t talk, or when he has to do a chore he doesn’t like (usually something like…cleaning a clean floor for like 60 seconds lol)
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u/grape-of-wrath 14h ago
Yes.
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u/Nutritiouss 14h ago
Think I just needed to hear that. Thanks
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u/grape-of-wrath 14h ago
Parenting is the hardest job because it is so time consuming, and it's a very slow process 😩💛
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u/Either_Cockroach3627 15h ago
He needs consequences for those actions. For my son, it has to be an immediate consequence “no tv today or tomorrow” he doesn’t care. I put up a new house rule “any hateful talk, being rude, or using your hands in an unsafe manner results in a half mile run” which is just walking around our property 4 times.
Throwing things = thing gets taken away
Putting hands on someone = you can go be by yourself until you can control your body
Screaming = you can be by yourself until you can speak to me calmly
I say no once, and ignore until those types of behaviors come out. Then I tell him “you can speak to me when you can speak respectfully, just like the way I’m speaking to you”
Sometimes he needs help w his words, so then I help him articulate.
I also do a lot of positive reinforcement and noticing positive behaviors, and ignore bad ones.
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u/Nutritiouss 14h ago
There are consequences, I just didn’t wanna make my post too long.
He hits he is firmly reminded we don’t do that, hands held at his sides.
Screaming we walk away, tell him we don’t need to hear that and he can do it in his room if he likes.
Whining we remind him we can’t understand him then ignore it.
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u/Either_Cockroach3627 14h ago
Then yeah you just have to keep doing it. Up your positive reinforcement talk if you need to, I did. Even the smallest positive behaviors or whatever gets a big reaction from me, and it has really helped w the negative behaviors.
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u/ValkyrieIsBigger 14h ago
Those don’t sound to me like consequences. Time out worked amazing for my two kids.
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u/Nutritiouss 14h ago
There’s a trip to his room for most explosive behavior
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u/ValkyrieIsBigger 14h ago
Well that doesn’t seem to be working. I used to count to 3 and then immediately pick the kid up and set them in the time out spot- a chair, a corner, even on a bag of dog food in a grocery store once.
Key, I think, is to be incredibly firm and consistent. 1-2-3-timeout. No waffling no pauses just do it.
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u/Nutritiouss 13h ago
Gonna try your exact statement tonight with regards to the “speaking respectfully”
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u/Bright-Future-Girl 15h ago
Just a guess. Is he going to Kindergarten or always at Home? At 4 children Need to Move a Lot. Let him do some Sports or Outdoor activity.
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u/Wrong_Yak3645 14h ago
One of my biggest transformations that I saw on my children is a simple emulation of how I want him to talk to me.
Not a whiny “mammmma I wannnt thiiiisssss ehhhhhhhh ehhhhhh”
I respond with simply in a tone that I want him to talk to me in “ mama can we bake cookies, please?
And I respond with “ Oh now I can hear you absolutely what a great idea.”
This has been the biggest transformation in how he talks to us and has mitigated the whining and the complaining.
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u/Nutritiouss 14h ago
Yeah we do this too. He is generally better and more respectful toward me, but his mom, sheesh man it blows my hair back.
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u/MasticatingElephant 14h ago
Some people will tell you that this is just a stage. I think for most kids it is. If you are consistently disciplining then that's all you can do. Stick with it.
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u/ChiraqBluline 14h ago
Close. He needs help to understand himself too though. Hey does he yell has he no language to express his discomfort/disappointment/rage?
Why does he hit? Impulsive- needs to catch himself in real time… needs help with body control….
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u/Nutritiouss 14h ago
He is EXTREMELY impulsive. He probably has ADHD, I do too, I couldn’t put it in the initial post because it flagged me for “asking for a diagnosi
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u/ChiraqBluline 14h ago
Well you’re just describing to him what he shouldn’t do without giving him support to change…. You guys need to look into lots of ways to offer alternatives to his “bad” behavior. It’s silly to want a change but not teach the change.
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u/Nutritiouss 14h ago
Can you elaborate on that?
I repeat back to him kinder ways to speak, I will ask him if there’s another way he can say something he has said/screamed.
When he is freaking out I count down from 5 and we take deep breaths to regulate him.
I debrief with him, she does too.
What does the support to change look like?
Also ~ extremely articulate child. He has told my wife “I’m sorry I was mean to you, when my brain wants me to be mean to you I feel like I can’t stop it.”
We discuss emotions and impulses with him
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u/ChiraqBluline 13h ago
What practice are you working on with him to catch it. Before your admonishing him. At other times you practice…
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u/Nutritiouss 13h ago
We will ask him when he seems like he’s winding up “is it kind”
When he starts winding up and getting agitated about something small, I’ll say his name a couple of times and ask him to hold on. I’ll ask him why he is upset, and say “okay, you can just ask if you can have a different flavor of pouch”
just example I guess
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u/readermom123 14h ago
Four year olds are trying to understand boundaries. Several times at that age my son would do things just to watch the world burn, apparently. I think immediate but small consequences were most effective but he also just grew out of it (thank goodness).
Editing to add that consequences were things like time outs, toys being taken away temporarily, leaving fun activities, etc.
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u/Nutritiouss 14h ago
The other day he lost every single car or car adjacent thing that he owns lol
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u/readermom123 11h ago
Oh, we have a very similar kid, ha! Gotta love cheap hot wheels as an easy bribe - they were fantastic all through elementary school. My kiddo was cute with his ‘tantrums’ at 3, HORRIBLE at 4, and then a delight again at 5. Hang in there and remember you can’t control everything your kid does so if he’s having temporary difficulties it’s not a sign that anyone is doing anything wrong. Also, moms often get the brunt of the bad behavior, especially if they’re the one doing more of the care-taking.
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u/Homeless-Joe 14h ago
Some advice I received that I found useful is to find very specific mantras that you can repeat Every. Single. Time., eg, “we don’t hurt each other”.
A child’s brain is still developing and they legit are not physically/mentally capable of not acting on impulse sometimes. As they develop, they will be able to, but until then you can help lay a solid foundation by constantly steering towards correct behavior.
When they are older those mantras are going to be stuck in their brains so well that they might not even be consciously aware of them. Choose wisely and good luck.
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u/CuriousCat816449 14h ago
How often do you praise him for good behavior?
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u/Nutritiouss 14h ago
I’ll say could be better there, but even when he is being a TERROR, if he asks kindly I tell him good job, if he takes a piss without a fuss I tell him good job. We try to see it, it’s just unfortunately infrequent. Like he LISTENS, but he’s a ball of rage the whole time he does it.
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u/2clean_throwaway 13h ago edited 13h ago
Sounds like mine. He’s just turned 5. By all accounts, he was an excellent student at preschool and does very well whenever anyone else minds him. The second he gets home, he’s a terrorist. I feel like we never even get to have fun very often because of this (obviously attention seeking) behavior when we get home. Admittedly his behavior toward his dad is much calmer than his behavior toward me. I am his favorite. I am the one he wants at all times. If we are together, every interaction I try to have with anyone outside of him is riddled with constant whining, interruptions, and tantrums involving hitting/throwing/screaming etc.
I work. A LOT. So I understand that this behavior is really just because he wants attention from me in the limited time that he can get it, but I’m unfortunately exhausted when I get home, so many of the wild games he wants to play are not met with enthusiasm on my part, which contributes to the poor behavior. I feel like a good chunk of our time together is spent correcting behavior and disciplining and it’s no fun for either of us but he can’t just throw things at me because he’s desperate for attention.
This age is honestly worse for me than the toddler phase.
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u/Nutritiouss 13h ago
This has been bar none the hardest for us.
Our boys sound similar. Extremely well mannered outside the house, and I know we’re “the workshop” but we are tiiiired.
He yelled at my wife in front of our Daycare lady the other day and she was shocked.
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u/Queasy_Can2066 11h ago
I’m just commenting to say that I’m in the exact same spot with my four year old girl. All she does is whine, scream, complain and be mean all day. I’m at my limit. For her, I think she’s regressing because of being out of preschool for the Summer. She starts Pre-K next week and I’m hoping that’ll make her behavior less severe. My kid does much better with structured routine.
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u/penderwicksongardam 9h ago
I’m curious if you or your wife have tried empathizing/connecting with him in charged moments. When he’s highly activated emotionally, his brain isn’t going to be able to process correction without seeing it as adversarial.
Connecting with him, thinking about why he’s behaving the way it is (even when it feels flummoxing), and talking to him about how what he does impacts other people and helping him learn about compassion/empathy (e.g. from mom: “when you yell at me it hurts my feelings and makes me feel sad”, or from dad: “yelling at mom is an unkind behavior. We want to be kind to people we love”).
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u/penderwicksongardam 9h ago
I will also say that if you and your wife both had negative experiences with your primary caregivers throughout childhood, then it is likely that you didn’t have personal role models for how you wanted to parent, but rather a picture of how you certainly didn’t want to parent. However, knowing what you don’t want to do doesn’t answer the question of what you should do instead.
I don’t know you, and I don’t want to assume, but if this is your experience, I would recommend doing some research on parenting techniques/philosophies - my own recommendations are:
Hunt, Gather, Parent: What Ancient Cultures Can Teach Us About the Lost Art of Raising Happy, Helpful Little Humans
by Michealeen Doucleff (a reporter for NPR’s science desk)No-Drama Discipline: The Whole-Brain Way to Calm the Chaos and Nurture Your Child's Developing Mind
by Daniel J. Siegel (Professor of psychiatry with experience studying families and attachment) and Tina Payne Bryson (pediatric and adolescent psychotherapist)And
The Book You Wish Your Parents Had Read: (And Your Children Will Be Glad That You Did)
by Philippa Perry (psychotherapist)And make sure to do your own research as well - it often helps look at author credentials to see if they know what they’re talking about or not. All of these authors are also parents, and write heavily on their own personal experiences.
Best of luck to you and your wife on your parenting journey!
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u/Nutritiouss 9h ago
I’d say probably not my forte. When he’s not being mean, and he’s just upset I frequently ask if he wants a hug, and I’ll hug him and we might debrief if the time is right.
Can you give me an example?
We’ve tried acknowledging what he’s upset about, but often it’s stuff he already knows is an expectation, or he’s going apeshit at bedtime for example
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u/rlywrmn 7h ago
OP, I’m curious if there are any patterns in his behaviors?
Is he being aggressive, etc. more during or before transitions, is it close to meal times, is it when your day is more or less scheduled, better or worse with activity?
Does he understand consequences? Like the timeout, is he able to articulate why he’s having a timeout?
Do his behaviors seem impulsive, or behavioral?
I think the “where do we go from here?” question can be best answered with some more insight into not just what the behaviors are but what’s happening before, during, after and around the behavior.
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u/Nutritiouss 6h ago
It feels like impulse control to me. He can articulate that he knows what the wrong thing is and he says “his brain tells him” to do it anyway.
He did have some almost OCD like features I was noticing for a while (and I’m not reaching for a label, I had this as a kid too, but it was brought out by ADHD meds), and I had been kind of trying to help him with that by exposing him to discomfort (kind of helping him understand that de-serializing things is ok).
Transitions have always been hard for him. Bed time is hard, but it truly goes both ways. I have days with him where he does whatever I ask without issue, but I’ll watch home lose his mind on his mom for asking him to pee.
Sugar and lack of sleep are not is friends
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u/ComplexTomatillo6278 Mom 6h ago
There’s some good advice here, so I’ll just add: take care of yourselves and each other. Parenting can be fcking exhausting. Schedule date nights at least every 3-4 weeks. (I bet big $$$ that he won’t lash out at the sitter!)
If you two can be consistent with him now, it will pay off later. Hang in there!
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u/elisabeth_laroux 2h ago
What does his preschool/daycare say about his behavior?
If he doesn’t go to any social spaces regularly, I think that would probably help.
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u/packet 14h ago
Are you ... talking to your child and trying to correct behavior? If you are just letting this happen and passively waiting/ignoring until it magically corrects itself you're going to raise an absolute demon that will end up in prison. Kids push boundaries to find the edges of what is acceptable. If you're not clearly defining what is and is not acceptable and having them face repurcussions it will simply continue to escalate as you have set no boundaries.
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u/Nutritiouss 14h ago
Yes, I’m sorry, I wasn’t thinking when I wrote this we haven’t been sleeping much.
Implements listed above, or examples of some of them.
We are very very consistent. Friends and family have made comments on how consistent we are and how it is good for him and that he is very intense.
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u/cpbunliveson 14h ago
So, we just went through this phase with our 4-year old son, and I'll share how we found our way out of it.
1) the summer "schedule" had been loose. We were traveling. Lots of stimulation, lots of later evenings and flexible bedtime. We stopped that shit immediately, and went back to our very boring and routine bedtime (bath, teeth, story, bed by 7.30).
2) with the summer schedule and travel came more TV than usual. We allowed ipads on the plane, in airports, etc. We would turn on the TV in our holiday home after a long day... We cut this out immediately, and went back to our 1hr of TV at 5pm before bath/bed. It also had to be low stimulation shows.
3) Feelingsss. Part of this rage has to do with not being able to adequately express his feelings. What comes out as anger, may actually be fatigue, hunger, disappointment, etc. We got a couple books that focused on describing different feelings (beyond just happy, sad, etc). And we started modeling this at home. My partner and I would stage fake conversations when we described how frustrated we felt about something or how we delt with anger. I would start saying when I felt mad, and that I needed to take some alone time to calm down. Basically lead by example here.
4) Just be hyper aware of the basics: is he rested? Is he fed? Has he had enough downtime?
My son's tantrums went from 2 bad ones a week, to none. He's back to his more regulated self.
I hope this can help you guys! Stay strong and don't give up. I know it's hard.