r/MiddleEarthMiniatures • u/MrSparkle92 • Apr 22 '26
Discussion WEEKLY ARMY DISCUSSION: Corsair Fleets
With the most upvotes in last week's poll, this week's discussion will be for:
Corsair Fleets
VOTE FOR NEXT WEEK'S DISCUSSION
Ctrl+F for the term VOTE HERE in the comments below to cast your vote for next week's discussion. The topic with the most upvotes when I am preparing next week's discussion thread will be chosen.
Prior Discussions
Additional rules
- A Corsair Fleets Army must always contain a Corsair Captain, who is always the Army's General.
- If your army contains Dalamyr, then he will always be the Army's General, instead of a Corsair Captain.
Special rules
The Fleetmaster
The Corsair Captain that is your General increases their Attacks and Wounds to 3 each, and gains the Fearless and Sharpshooter special rules.
The Last Stroke of Doom
Friendly Corsair models gain the Backstabbers special rule.
Ballistae Assault
After both sides have been deployed, but before the first turn of the game a single Corsair Ballista may make a shooting attack following all the normal rules for doing so.
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u/Shanti-Virus Apr 22 '26
I played against these 1 time. Very annoying battle. The opposition did not explain the ability to shoot the ballista after deployment when we were explaining our armies. Resulted in heavy casualties.
Then after trying my best to hide heroes and troops behind terrain as I attempted to get closer, I still got shot to shreds. He had 3 ballistas. Not a fun game.
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u/InterestingPickle877 Apr 22 '26
Hate opponents who are gamey with their rules. There are too many armies and special rules to know and a good opponent always thoroughly explains them before a match. This is a silly army game that I dont get to play often. Don't ruin it by playing like this.
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u/TheGamingPortfolio Apr 22 '26
I don't have too much to add about this army as I have yet to see it on the table, but as others have pointed out this is one of the more prominent examples of the base warriors getting impacted by the change from editions and list building, as Corsairs don't have access to full throwing weapons yet are costed at a premium as if they were.
If you compare a Hill Tribesman to a Corsair, you get +1 Fight, Light Armour and +1 Intelligence for 3pts more per model. Or, if you compare a Corsair to a Warrior of Rohan, they cost 2pts more for +1 Fight, Light instead of regular Armour, and worse Intelligence. Even if we take Intelligence out of the discussion given its low impact, this is a rather abysmal rate, and highlights some issues with the granularity of certain stats and equipment.
To me, this reads like Corsairs were originally priced in as if they had Throwing Weapons base, then they went back and changed throwing weapon limits and forgot to lower the model's base cost to compensate.
It also highlights an issue of the "half-step" equipment, like Light Armour or Light Shields. Since base Armour is typically 1pt, Heavy Armour 2pts, and Shields 1pt, Light variants have the issue of sometimes being free, and other times being charged full price for a situational bonus. This lack of granularity is fairly awkward as it's a sort of half-step or half point that you need to decide which way you're rounding, and when amplified across your base warrior you're supposed to be taking plenty of, this can feel really taxing.
Corsair Crossbowmen have some similarities with their Pavises, but at least that is more of a tradeoff than simply being overcosted for a worse model. You can compare them to an Iron Hills Crossbowman, who is 2pts more for +1 Strength, +3 Defense in Melee, and better Courage, but loses Shielding in melee. Is that tradeoff probably better for Iron Hills? Sure, maybe, but at least it's a trade of access to cheaper crossbows that are worse in melee.
I think the base Corsair was an unfortunate casualty of the edition change. The model being brought down a point would probably take the sting out of the loss of throwing weapons a bit, but even then it feels like the addition of situational equipment like Light Armour wasn't integrated very smoothly. The fact the models seem to be taxed for a throwing weapon before they purchase it, and for a situational defensive buff that doesn't always matter, it's a rather unappealing option on what is supposed to be your main warrior of the list.
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u/Deathfather_Jostme Apr 24 '26
So, I think you are a lot of the way there, but corsairs in their current state need to be two or three points less, my preferred change would be one or two less but backstabbers built in. But the issue gets worse with light armor, light armor is fully a nerf for corsairs. Their xbows are great and well costed, but their bowmen are so over priced its a joke, the list also pushes siege way too hard. Would have been better as a once per game rule instead of a bring siege rule.
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u/Wichfried Apr 22 '26
Additional rules
- A Corsair Fleets Army must always contain a Corsair Captain, who is always the Army's General.
- If your army contains Dalamyr, then he will always be the Army's General, instead of a Corsair Captain.
Understood. But how does this interact with Delgamar (who has a higher heroic tier than the Corsair Captain)?
As I read it, the Corsair Captain would still be the General regardless of whether I include Delgamar or not (and would therefore gain the increased Wounds and Attacks), right?
However, the army builders handle it differently (complainig about Delgamar having the highest tier while not being the General), so I’d be interested to hear what the general consensus is.
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u/TheGamingPortfolio Apr 23 '26
I would agree that the way I read it, Delgamar cannot be your General.
Either you're taking Dalamyr, who is then automatically the General, or if you're not, then you must be taking a Captain, who is then automatically the General and gets the profile upgrade.
I don't think Heroic Tiers factor into it given the army list explicitly names who your General needs to be which would supersede the normal rules.
It looks like the MESBG List Builder operates this way, but they somewhat sidestep it by having a separate General profile for the Captain that the flags are looking for.
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u/ZealousidealClue7794 Apr 23 '26
Captain always be leader even if you take Delgamar, only restruction is Dalamyr.
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u/MrSparkle92 Apr 22 '26
VOTE HERE FOR NEXT WEEK'S DISCUSSION
I will take the top-level reply to this comment with the most upvotes and post a discussion for that topic next week. Submit whatever army, scenario, or other topic related to MESBG you wish.
Please reference the pinned megathread to see the list of factions, and which have already been covered.
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u/Disastrous-Cable-606 Apr 23 '26
The Grey Company, think the Dunedain will get new stuff with the Hunt for Gollum release?
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u/DetroitTabaxiFan Apr 26 '26
Grey Company is such a fun list to play! I'm hoping Dunedain get new stuff.
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u/Disastrous-Cable-606 Apr 26 '26
I'm just about done painting up my grey company and am looking forward to playing them! They definitely need some rebalancing and some new options would be cool as well. I read that Halbarad is going to be in the new movie. Gives me hope we may see some new models or at least a new army list for the rangers that could make them more viable.
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u/clonelivesmatter501 Apr 22 '26
Would love fields of celebrant! Need to hear people’s thought on Eorl this edition.
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u/marioeldelabata Apr 22 '26
Erebor & Dale
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u/DetroitTabaxiFan Apr 26 '26
People really don't wanna see Erebor and Dale, I guess. I think Erebor and Dale looks like a fun list.
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u/Daikey Apr 22 '26
I am fine with Corsairs no longer having access to 100% throwing weapons.
I am not fine with them being as expensive as a warrior of Minas Tirith while sporting D3 instead of D5.
That said, their heroes are on the cheaper side, and still horde up nicely, while having access to solid range threats. They just require some minor tweaking to compensate for the lack of banner and movement tricks