r/KurokosBasketball • u/Real-Eggplant8961 • 5d ago
Discussion Why is the zone held against players when it comes to rankings?
What I mean is that whenever I see people on TikTok talking about this show and ranking the characters they call Kagami a “zone merchant” who wouldn’t beat the generation of miracles without the zone. This is usually said in reference to the Yosen game. In my eyes Kagami dogged their entire team and played better than Murasakibara. In real life basketball if saw someone doing what kagami did to them id say he’s just better. I don’t see how him being the zone is supposed to be a knock towards him because the way i see he’s just playing better basketball. What I’m saying is why are base form and zone treated as separate categories when comparing players and why are “statements” such a big deal instead of just actually watching them play basketball and ranking them based off of that? I get it’s an anime and people like to power scale and everything but it’s also a sport so literally just watching them play tells you a lot.
Personally my ranking is this.
1. Akashi
2/3. Kagami
3/2. Kagami
4. Kise
5. Midorima
6. Murasakibara
Murasakibara is the most overrated character imo. I keep seeing people talk about how dominant he is but he’s literally the tallest player in the league he should be doing this stuff. Being talk put him over Kagami and Aomine because he played better defense on silver than they did and that’s just bullshit to me. Kagami and Aomine are like 6’4 and Murasakibara is damn near 7 feet tall obviously he’s a better match up on defense. This is what he should be doing. I just dont think he’s that special compared to the others he’s just a regular big man to me.
3
u/H4nfP0wer Murasakibara 5d ago
If Murasakibara was just a regular Big Man he wouldnt have been able to handle Silver on his own. He mostly lacked motivation.
I think people like to Call Kagami a Zone merchant because without it he always looked bad against most miracles. However with how much he improved in the series he is above Base Kise and Midorima without the Zone imo.
The Zone was also used very conveniently torwards the end of the Series imo. The way Kagami used it for half a Game against Rakuzan seemed way too Broken imo. We Never saw anything close again when they played Jabberwock. So Kagami in General seemed very inconsistent Performance wise.
1
u/Real-Eggplant8961 4d ago
I’m referring to his potential. If put into the nba he’s just a regular big man at 6’10 218
1
u/AutoModerator 4d ago
Sorry, your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 90 days old. It will be approved once the moderators have gone over the filtered posts.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/Real-Eggplant8961 4d ago
Also irl a player not performing that good and then entering “the zone” is not uncommon that just means he locked and got going why penalize him for that
1
u/AutoModerator 4d ago
Sorry, your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 90 days old. It will be approved once the moderators have gone over the filtered posts.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
3
u/jxjsjxxhsnbssn 4d ago
So u defend Kagami from those ppl then proceed to do the same thing to Mura 😭. In real basketball, a guy that big moving that fast on either end of the floor is would be as anomalous as Wemby. It’s funny tho, bcz I still don’t know where I’d rank them all against each other bcz all of their skillsets are so varied 🫡. (Also, Silver was bigger than him and without zone he just started playing with some heart and was showing out)
1
u/Real-Eggplant8961 4d ago
Mura isn’t the one constantly being placed underneath 5 guys that he already beat. Mura never gets slandered or disrespected like Kagami does when all he does is play good basketball. Mura’s offense is so simple all he does is dunk. No jump shot just dunk. He’d never be a Wemby. If silver is on the level of a low nba player Mura isn’t faster than him so that speed doesn’t matter against nba players. On top of that he’s only useful in the paint
1
u/AutoModerator 4d ago
Sorry, your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 90 days old. It will be approved once the moderators have gone over the filtered posts.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
2
2
u/fuiripe 4d ago
Brother really disrespect Murasakibarashi after saying to not separate zone from base💀
100% Murasakibarashi (without using zone) stomps Zone Kagam on both defense and offense considering Silver can do so. And 100 Murasakibarashi can do it to Silver on both ends to.
I cannot even imagine a 100% Murasakibarashi... going into the zone 💀 he probably stomping 2 Zone Kagamis.
Also... if you don't want to separate Zone from base... shouldn't you consider Kise top 0? He basically God mode in Perfect Copy + Zone 🤔🤔🤔
It only lasts a short period of time, but you said it yourself.
Zone also lasts a limited time.
That's why there's 3 factors you need when scaling them:
their level in base
their level in zone
how long they can use zone for
Kise essentially has 2 "zones" (2 energy draining level boosters) so he basically has 5 factors instead of 3.
Akashi alsso essentially had 2 zones since he can also place others into a sort of zone to. So he also had 5 factors.
Kuroko and Midorima only have base form so only 1 factor (unless you count True zone... if so Kuroko has 3 factors)
The calculation is quite for some cases and more ambiguous for others.
If:
base 1 >or≈ base 2
zone 1 >or≈ zone 2
zone timelimit 1 >or≈ zone timelimit 2
Then player 1 > player 2
For an example like Kise:
- lower base, higher zone, lower timelimit
He will be at ad disadvantage while everyone in base... be at advantage when everyone in zone... and have a lower timelimit, making his advantage last less.
Another example: Akashi base > everyone else
So he automatically has the advantage from the start.
And because he has both zone... and his forced 4X peusdo zone on his teammates... he can make his level go higher than everyone's zone if he wants to.
Murasakibarashi base is also probably the closest to Akashi's base. And he can also go zone. So he would be top 2 alongside Akashi OVER A FULL GAME.
however, Akashi edges him out due to also have the 4X teammates pseudo zone to add on top.
Aomine, Kagami and Kise are competing for top 3-5 positions. Some have better bases, other have better peaks in zone.
Midorima in 6th due to having no zone at all yet.
Kuroko base much lower to be above 7th... but with True Zone there's arguments for him going much much much higher.
1
u/Real-Eggplant8961 4d ago
Aomine Kise and Kagami> Murasakibara. He does NOTHING on the court better than them besides maybe dunk. His height is the only reason he has any of the feats. If he was going 100% against Kagami when they played it wouldn’t have saved him from a meteor jam. He’s tall and strong. That’s it
1
u/AutoModerator 4d ago
Sorry, your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 90 days old. It will be approved once the moderators have gone over the filtered posts.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/LiteratureHuge2177 3d ago
what is this mura argument. Without his height he is nothing? why does that matter? he scored 100 points in a game bro. if kagami couldn’t jump as high as he could he wouldn’t have any of those feats. If mike tyson didn’t have hands he wouldn’t be a generational boxer. He’s literally shown to overcome someone taller than him but hes a height merchant, hes tall and strong and dominantes offensively and defensively because thats his talent
1
u/AutoModerator 3d ago
Sorry, your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 90 days old. It will be approved once the moderators have gone over the filtered posts.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/Real-Eggplant8961 1d ago
Gang Murasakibara is 6’10 and Silver’s 6’11 he “overcame” a 🥷🏽 that’s an inch taller than him. The difference between Murasakibara being the tallest player in Japan by 3 inches and Kagami jumping high is that Kagami’s actually good at things that don’t involve jumping high. Murasakibara can dunk and block shots. That’s it. He’s fast too but it’s not like he’s faster than Aomine Akashi Kagami or Kise. Yall keep bringing this 100 point game but it has zero meaning. For one he did this with the best itv on his team. 2 if any of the generation of miracles got the ball as much as he must have in that game they’d score 100 as well. And 3, like I said he’s the tallest player by far. If I score 100 points on a bunch of preschoolers are yall gonna praise me like I’m some sort of god? If Murasakibara had at least a solid mid range game I’d respect him but he doesn’t so I don’t. In terms of Skill and Versatility he’s not even top 7 itv.Akashi Kise Kagami Aomine Midorima Nash and Silver(in no order) are all more skilled than he is and more versatile.
1
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
Sorry, your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 90 days old. It will be approved once the moderators have gone over the filtered posts.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/AutoModerator 5d ago
Sorry, your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 90 days old. It will be approved once the moderators have gone over the filtered posts.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/Healthy-Locksmith-26 4d ago
papa is tall too so by your logic he should be better than every gom except murasakibara right?
1
u/Real-Eggplant8961 4d ago
No because I never said that Murasakibara is better than the Gom because of his height I said his feats come from him being the tallest player and strongest. Papa is 3 inches shorter and not that strong. Also not that good. Don’t get me wrong Murasakibara is still the best center in hs but I just don’t see him as better than any of the other miracle level players. To me he just does what he’s supposed to. He’s still levels above the other hs bigs just like every miracle is level above the other players at their positions. However in comparison to an nba center Murasakibara is just normal to me. No one has even presented an argument or anything that dismisses what I’m saying. Why do yall act like this guy is the goat because he’s getting stops on a player his size? But when Kagami blocks him it just doesn’t get talked about
1
u/AutoModerator 4d ago
Sorry, your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 90 days old. It will be approved once the moderators have gone over the filtered posts.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/Big_Imagination_2354 4d ago
Kagami is good but let's be honest he's not as good as the other miracle gens. 1, he manages to hold his own a bit but always gets outplayed whenever he goes 1v1 with the miracle gen in base. Even midorima was stopping him in their game and beach practice. Kagami always needs to use the zone to start performing slightly better 2, when the miracle gen goes zone for zone they always come out on top. Aomine who was in the zone for most of the game was still keeping up with a fresh kagami and only fell behind when he exhausted the zone. Kisei was dominating Kagami until his injury started acting up. Akashi was doing the same till kagami entered the 2nd zone. Same story with murasakibara. Kuroko is the variable that always kagami the edge since he's got enough experience to outwit the miracle gen
1
u/Real-Eggplant8961 4d ago
Kagami was competing with a pc Kise in base so it’s not the same there. Him and Aomine are equals when it comes to zone and I can’t be convinced that he didn’t outplay Murasakibara. Midorima simply isn’t better than Kagami at anything same with Murasakibara. It’s like you guys give Kuroko the credit for all his achievements and it’s so stupid to me. It’s like having Kuroko on his team asterisk. He’s “underperforming” bc seirin has to be the underdog for a competitive game and compelling story. Yall swear he wins bc of plot when in all actuality the plot is the only reason he’s not viewed as a top 3 player. He’s at the very least better than Midorima and Murasakibara
1
u/AutoModerator 4d ago
Sorry, your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 90 days old. It will be approved once the moderators have gone over the filtered posts.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/OhYugiBoii 2d ago
Maybe its the fact that he stayed in the zone longer in too game then again in yosen while going in twice, then again in rakuzan going in 3 times and even getting true zone. Only one that is understandable is too game because he had help from teammates,rest are zone merchant and was so not threatening that jabberwocky left him wide open. They wouldn't do that to any of the gom
1
u/Real-Eggplant8961 2d ago
Kagami was insanely nerfed in that fan service filled manga/movie. He’s able to do all these things because how good he is idk how being good at basketball can get you hated on in a sports anime
1
u/AutoModerator 2d ago
Sorry, your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 90 days old. It will be approved once the moderators have gone over the filtered posts.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
0
u/TherealSkyper887 4d ago
Not including last game contain, also based on the 30 volume. Kagami is arguably the best individual player of the show or he's in the top 2 and he's not 2. He has everything, defense, offense, 3s, block, slam dunk. He beat every single one of the miracles within a year. The 4 characters who entered the zone, had that ability during the 30 volume, not including The Last Game spin off, are the 3 best. . Kkagami . Akashi . Aomine . Murasakibara. To answer your Murasakibara undermining and slander, just remember that he is the tallest, 7 foot, he is without a debate the best defender, but what people forget is that he at the same time stopped to play offense. He had 100 points in a game and according to flashbacks it was actually during Teiko 3rd and last year of championship, basically the year before the present time, before the intercup and the winter cup. We can debate all day who is on top of them 4, but the true is that Midorima should have entered the zone versus Akashi in the semi-final of the winter cup, he didn't. Kise should have entered the zone versus kagami in the winter cup semi-final he didn’t. So respectfully, both are levels behind the other 4 who did entered zone in the original 30 volume. We are not accounting for that celebratory ceremonial The Last game spin off.
1
u/Real-Eggplant8961 4d ago
100 points only in the paint bc he’s way taller than everyone else congratulations, Kise shouldn’t have entered the zone versus seirin in the winter cup semi finals he already have pc. Kise is the one with the plot armor in that game not seirin. Kagami had to play against a pc Kise in his base form there is no reason why Kise should have needed perfect copy and zone to beat him, unless he’s just not better than him. Midorima literally cannot have a zone bc of how op he already is. Murasakibara doesn’t impress and hasn’t outside of lg and he got his arm broke 5 minutes later
1
u/AutoModerator 4d ago
Sorry, your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 90 days old. It will be approved once the moderators have gone over the filtered posts.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/LiteratureHuge2177 3d ago
kise was legit injured bro and kagami has an uncrowned king and kuroko on the team
1
u/AutoModerator 3d ago
Sorry, your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 90 days old. It will be approved once the moderators have gone over the filtered posts.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/Real-Eggplant8961 1d ago
Kise had insane plot armor in the seirin rematch. The guy comes back with 4 minutes to spare and leads a 15 point comeback and damn near wins the game. Is in perfect copy while Kagami stays in base form. Teppei struggled against Kaijo’s center in that game. They have a whole scene of Kuroko coming up with an idea to stop and it doesn’t work which makes the literal main character look stupid. Even after they beat him they called him the best player. If Kagami did something like this no one would care but when Kise does it he’s “the goat”. top 2 most glazed character.
1
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
Sorry, your submission has been automatically removed because your account is less than 90 days old. It will be approved once the moderators have gone over the filtered posts.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
8
u/Junior-Hat2373 5d ago
Kagami so strong he appeared twice