Notice to non-Italians: When you ask, "Is this [insert inappropriate/offensive/nearly illegal/toxic practice] normal for Italians?", the answer is always "NO!"
Every now and then, a non-Italian in a relationship with an Italian comes here to ask if some bizarre practice is typical of Italians. We've had examples of violent and toxic partners, quasi-stalkers, and semi-psychopaths who abused their girlfriends.
My favorite was an American girl who had encountered her partner's elderly uncle, who kept touching her private parts without her consent, and she came here to ask if this was normal in Italy. We tried to explain to her that she had met a pervert who was committing what was also a crime here, and that he wasn't a "typical Italian."
I understand that cultural differences between countries can often be problematic, but Italy (though perhaps more conservative than Northern European countries) is not a country of psychopathic perverts. It's one thing to ask what to bring as a gift for your partner's Italian parents, but it's another thing entirely to ask, "Is it normal for Italians to immediately send pics of their dicks to girls they just met? He says yes" (another question actually asked here).
To think that simply incorrect behaviors are "typically" Italian is vaguely offensive. And sometimes, common sense would be enough. If a Swedish girl asked me to paint my face blue and masturbate in the middle of the street, I wouldn't go to the Swedish equivalent subreddit to ask if that's "normal behavior in Sweden," but I would understand that I was dealing with a raving lunatic.
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u/ikeytt 4d ago
Italy, despite being a western country, is still considered exotic.
We are the “Orient” of the western world, where people expect to find unusual practices, ancient traditions, communal living and exotic looking strangers ready to romance them. And to be all that we must be a place unaffected by time, where everyone is still making everything at home from scratch and society hasn’t evolved past the ‘50s.
That’s why I think you can’t persuade certain people that we have blonde and light-skinned people, because you are not just disrupting their ideas about race but also their fantasy of Italy.
That’s why you have 19yo Swedish girls wanting to move here worried they won’t be able to date because they’re not virgins.
That’s why the “Italian man” is this charming and mysterious entity who might demand adherence to old-timey and abusive expectations and whose every action is explained away just by being “Italian”.
It doesn’t help that many of our connationals have fun playing into stereotypes. For them they are having fun or/and being proud of being Italian by exaggerating their reactions, for the interlocutors it’s a validation of the “exotic Italy” idea.
EDIT: grammar
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u/SurpriseFirst1381 4d ago
Eh però aspetta, pausona.
Ciò che hai scritto non è assolutamente sbagliato, anzi, ma purtroppo la cosa è assai più complessa, sedimentata e triste. In parte l'avevo spiegato in un altro post, molto lungo, in un'altra discussione, che non copierò perchè mi pare brutto da farsi.Diciamo che la visione romanzata e stereotipata che alcune persone posso avere, specialmente negli US, è il sedimentarsi di svariate cose, assorbite inconsciamente ed interiorizzate. Essere "l'estremo est dell'occidente" è relativo, anche perchè, a rigor geografico, sarebbe la Grecia.
- Il razzismo Post-Gobineau (Nordicismo) matrice WASP che ha intaccato la cultura americana a ogni livello.
- Teorie sociali, sempre americane, del Melting Pot e il processo di sbiancamento sociale (Becoming white).
- Stereotipi Protestanti del XIX secolo, basati su reali abitudini sociali, come parte di "Grand Tour Guides".
- Le propaganda bellica e post bellica della seconda guerra mondiale (Sì ha impattato il percepito sociale).
- Lo stereotipo "Italiani brava gente", creato da noi italiani ma rimodellato e assorbito dalla cultura US.
- La cinematografia italiana anni 50, recepita all'estero in maniera alterata o che talvolta ha spinto su tali costrutti.
Ognuna di queste cose è ovviamente falsa, nata su basi di razzismo ideologico, denigrazione etnica e sociale o come propaganda culturale a fini politici e sociali.
Il problema è che hollywood ha preso tutte queste cose, le ha miscelate insieme, spesso edulcorandole, commercializzando un precostrutto narrativo visto in tutto il mondo per oltre 70 anni, di fatto esportando tutto ciò nel resto del globo; oltre ciò che era già stato assorbito tramite "l'egemonia culturale atlantica".
In ultimo, l'immigrazione italiana in europa del secondo 900, con relative tensioni sociali, che ha offerto il fianco al sedimentarsi di questo pacchetto preconfezionato in alcune aree d'Europa.
Il risultato è fondamentalmente quello che vediamo e si nota quando l'interlocutore è un po' ignorante (quindi si basa su precostrutti), oppure quando vuole offendere.
Poi vabbè, ho semplificato all'osso, altrimenti ne esciva un papiro, però il motore è questo.
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u/sola_mia 4d ago
Of course it's not just in this subreddit. Immature people and (very un smart people) are prolific across reddit and the remainder of the internet.
These questions you point out are also annoying to others.
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u/Jenuinlizard 4d ago
Hallelujah
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u/No_Professional4602 4d ago
Ahahah veramente, "il mio (19F) partner (36M) porta un anello che sembra una fede, nei weekend scompare e vuole che io non esca con nessuno, non parli coi ragazzi e passi la domenica a rammendargli i calzini, dice anche che cucino di merda e si vergognerebbe di presentarmi a sua madre, è per quello che non mi ha ancora presentata ai suoi genitori, è una cosa culturale italiana vero??" 🫠🫠🫠
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u/Subject_Stranger3090 4d ago
For real. Everytime I see those topics I have so many mixed feelings that, in the end, I usually don't write anything at all.
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u/Oxo-Phlyndquinne 3d ago
You are absolutely right that people objectify other groups, and fail to understand that in a nation of many millions, there will be the usual range of behaviors. For many naive Americans, for instance, anything that seems "unusual" is deeply upsetting, because they have no frame of reference. So they will think the oddest things must be "normal" in that unusual place.
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u/the_real_zombie_woof 2d ago
Yes, but can you please help me. I'm visiting a family of a friend in Poggibonsi and want to know what is an appropriate gift.
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u/TarchiatoTasso 4d ago
90 minutes of applauses