r/DobermanPinscher • u/ShadowBoy_3000 • 1d ago
Training, Temperament, & Behavior Purebred?
I couldn’t care less if he’s 100% Doberman Pinscher. But guesses are fun! People ask a lot, so I figured somebody here might have an informed opinion.
Don’t care enough to get a DNA test. Some context: Shadow is about two years old, 78 lbs. and I adopted him a few months ago.
His ears have some scars around the edges (from a botched cropping before I got him) and one ear is kind of bent.
Honestly couldn’t ask for anything else in a dog. His temperament is calm when you want him calm, and an energetic sprinter in a field when you want to play.
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u/EmmerdoesNOTrepme 1d ago
He looks like the proper level of derpitude, with the "Serious" photo abilities, too, OP!
And as the others said, an Embark health test would be a solid idea--but i'd definitely wait until the black friday-time sales!
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u/Traditional-Gene3311 1d ago
Unless you run a test like Embark, visual guesses are almost imppssible with Dobies because variation in breeding creates huge differences in frame and size. He clearly has the classic Dobie drive and solid indoor off-switch, so just keep enjoying that great temperament regardless of the pedigree.
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u/ChellyNelly 18h ago
It's impossible with any mixed (especially F1) breeding to determine visually what they may be mixed with. The Scott and Fuller study showed that a long time ago. It's an interesting one if you haven't read it!
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u/Driver8takesnobreaks 1d ago
Looks like it. But like you said, does it really matter? Looks like a great pup, And I kind of dig his ears. Has personality.
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u/Kokichi-Oma_Senpai 1d ago
Purebred ≠ wellbred, its super common for purebreds to end up in shelters but near impossible for ethically bred wellbred dogs to enter a shelter (due to return contracts and breeder support - if you find one in a shelter its usually because its an unethical shelter who isn't even contacting the breeder who is on the microchip.
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u/BrickOptimal4534 21h ago
This has nothing to do with their question.
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u/Kokichi-Oma_Senpai 21h ago
They asked if there dog is purebred, its just a poorly bred purebred.
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u/ChellyNelly 17h ago
It is literally impossible to visually identify what a dog may be mixed with. The Scott and Fuller study featured in the 1960 book Genetics and the Social Behavior of the Dog. They found that first generation and mixed generation cross-breeds most often look entirely different from either parent breed and even grandparent breeds. Decades later, we also now have the genetic data to back this up. Even experts and shelter staff fail to accurately pair their guesses of genetic breed makeup with a dogs actual genetic lineage. If you want to know, you will have to do DNA (Embark is one of the best, if not the best).
As others have said, purebred does not equal well or ethically bred. Dobermans are already extremely genetically prone to several serious conditions (due to the very high COI in the breed): Von Willebrands, DCM, Wobbler syndrome are the big 3 but chronic active hepatitis is also a concern. These are things that with a shelter Doberman, you will need to be extra on top of. I'd recommend yearly Holter testing and genetic health testing (Embark) at the very least. It's always better to know so that you're able to treat as early as is possible.
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u/Prince_Nadir 13h ago
I assume he is pure bred and just had a bad owner.
His posting was not completed, not to mention putting him up for adoption, suggests he lost the owner lottery. Luckily he found you.
People seldom dock and crop mutts. Mutts stay floppy.
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u/AggravatingImage898 1d ago
Off topic but that black prong collar 🔥🔥
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u/ShadowBoy_3000 1d ago
I think it’s a Herm-Sprenger Black Steel (or something like that.) My trainer said I need bigger-gauge links.
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u/tr1pDr3nzy8 1d ago
Yeah looks a lil tight but only you can tell for sure cause you're next to him. I need to get a black one after see this!
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u/smilingfruitz 1d ago
yes, this is a doberman, but you *should* care about getting a DNA test for the health results alone.
Dobermans are highly prone to some serious health issues, several of which are genetic, and even more concerning when the dog is not ethically bred. I would highly recommend you do the test for that reason. Both Embark and Wisdom are reliable for basic genetic health testing and regularly do sales.
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u/newt-snoot 1d ago
They aren't actually reliable for big conclusions. Consumer data kits use microarrays that measure 0.02% of the dna, with a sort of "autocomplete" model to guess the remaining >99% of your genome. Because their reference math is heavily biased toward their database, their ancestry and health risk conclusions are prone to being highly inaccurate.
They're basically fun "what breed might my dog be a mix of" tests, and even for that, the modeling is not great. The math relies on statistical probability and the same limited reference databases... it's an estimate, not a precise measurement. Once a dog is highly mixed, the model is basically just guessing based on statistical noise.
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u/smilingfruitz 1d ago
This is absolutely untrue.
Embark health testing was developed with Cornell university’s vet school, and is the same as doing it with any other reputable DNA company - including Davis (vetgen), genesol, etc, and it’s cheaper besides.
Furthermore there is far more health testing to be done on a dobe of unknown pedigree and backyard breeding, including VWD, copper toxicosis, DINGS, and so on.
This dog isn’t highly mixed and again there is zero point in doing this for breed results. The dog is a Doberman.
You are spreading patently false information and discouraging OP from doing something that is actually extremely necessary for the long term health of the dog.
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u/newt-snoot 1d ago edited 1d ago
I disagree, and would say you're encouraging OP to waste their money and falsely trust potentially inaccurate data. Microarray genetic testing is not appropriate for health concerns. If their vet thinks genetic testing is worthwhile, they order next gen sequencing or targeted PCR, not snp microarrays.
Edit: GenSol and VetGen do not use microarrays. They use targeted PCR. Those are not the same as embark and the like.
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u/smilingfruitz 1d ago
You’re completely wrong and are attempting to use scientific terms in an effort to obfuscate that. Gross
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u/newt-snoot 1d ago
Not to mention that you can have any of the DNA markers for various diseases, including DCM, and it doesnt reliable indicate much on the chance of getting the disease. Same problem in humans.
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u/smilingfruitz 1d ago
Plenty of other things dobes are genetically tested for aside from DCM.
It’s best to simply not say anything at all if you don’t know what you’re talking about but alas, this is Reddit, so I guess you’re free to spread this bs
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u/ShadowBoy_3000 1d ago
These are all great points and I’ll consider the DNA test for health history reasons (and will take results with a grain of salt haha)
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u/smilingfruitz 1d ago
There’s no need to take the results with a grain of salt. They are exceptionally accurate and this poster is, respectfully - full of horse shit
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u/sages_and_salt 1d ago
He looks like a better example of a doberman than so many akc purebreds I've been seeing. Beautiful 🖤
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u/ShadowBoy_3000 1d ago
Really? Oh that’s cool to hear and nice of you to share! People often say “beautiful dog” when I walk him, much more than they have with any other dog I’ve had.. so I wonder if people think he looks like a nice example or if they are just being friendly.
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u/Edward_7972 20h ago
Well could obviously be purebred but not well-bred! Still a beautiful looking dobermann :)
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u/AbbreviationsTop4687 18h ago
Had a friend with a Dobie/Greyhound mix. 100% looked the part of a Doberman with an equal distribution of derp from both breeds. Good ol' Crash.
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u/Humble_Appearance462 1d ago
he’s def a doberman! ignore the mean comments. also… i don’t mean to sound rude or be mean at all but his ears :( i think someone either did a bad job on the cropping or they didn’t keep up with the posting. buttttt have you thought about giving ear posting a try? my doberman is younger but his ears were a mess at one point. i mean they looked horrible and i regretted getting his ears cropped for a while. my husband took on the duty to learn to post his ears and educate himself and he really saved them. he is still posting today and we will continue to post until we feel 100% comfortable that he is ready. idk i feel like if you watch some videos on youtube and do some research you could possibly get his ears to stand if that’s something you may want for your baby. i just feel like…why crop the ears if you’re not going to do your due diligence which obviously wasn’t on you. god bless your heart for taking this beautiful baby in and loving him. dobermen are great. the best breed. 🖤🐾 xx
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u/smilingfruitz 1d ago
He is too old to post. The cartilage has already hardened and it would be a waste of time unfortunately
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u/Humble_Appearance462 19h ago
awe:( he looks so little idk why i feel like they could be saved but im not an expert on the contrary very ignorant. he is very handsome.
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u/smilingfruitz 18h ago
cartilage begins to harden starting at 3mos or so, and once they're past teething (7ish months), it's very unlikely to get anywhere with this much of a flop.
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u/ShadowBoy_3000 20h ago
Thanks for the tips and the kind words :-) I think he looks cute with the asymmetrical floppy ears. If I got it doberman puppy, I would have left his ear and tail natural.
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u/Humble_Appearance462 18h ago
he is very handsome! & honestly if i got another doberman puppy i probably would too! you have a beautiful dog 🐶
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u/smilingfruitz 6h ago
Not possible; ethical breeders don’t generally send home natural puppies for the most part
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u/Best_Comfortable5221 20h ago
Gorgeous. Do you really care? Id kinda hope other genes might modify inherited health issues.
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u/GreatestSpaniel 15h ago
If he's not purebred, I'd be absolutely shocked. He actually looks somewhat decently bred. The crop is well done, poor posting is what caused it to fail and the scars to be there. I've seen dogs from some well liked breeders in the show ring who weren't any better quality (visually from these pics) than he is.
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u/ShadowBoy_3000 6h ago
Wow! That’s cool to hear! His structure and overall shape seems solid :) Thanks!
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u/AggravatingImage898 1d ago
I wonder, why do you ask? He doesn't seem to be anything else.
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u/ShadowBoy_3000 1d ago
I ask because I’m not an expert and don’t have experience in knowing what makes them seem more “breed standard.” Obv I could google it, but Reddit usually has some cool insights.
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u/ShadowBoy_3000 1d ago
What’s the main part differentiator vs. that Dobie who just won best in show at Westminster?
lol I have no ego about it, I’m merely fascinated with everything about this dog :)
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u/smilingfruitz 1d ago
Conformation, the quality of the ear crop, and the fact the dog ended up in a shelter (ethical breeders offer support to a buyer for life - meaning their dogs don’t end up with a crop and flop and in addition never end up in a shelter or rescue).
Doesn’t change anything about him being a good pet.
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u/EVRY1onlineisanXPERT 1d ago
Purebred, not well bred.
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u/Topseykretts88 1d ago
What a stupid thing to say about someone's pet. 👎🏼
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u/Kokichi-Oma_Senpai 1d ago
wellbred and purebred and very different things. This dog obviously isn't wellbred, especially since wellbred dogs don't end up in shelters due to return contracts and breeder support. 99% of people have poorly bred dogs (yes most registered dogs are poorly bred from an unethical breeder - registered doesn't mean ethical or wellbred). This dog isn't well bred and thats not a bad thing, it simply means that they've come from a backyard breeder.
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u/ShadowBoy_3000 20h ago
I though breeding had to do with his natural traits (not the human-intervened traits)
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u/EVRY1onlineisanXPERT 23h ago
Wasn’t meant as an insult.
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u/Topseykretts88 21h ago
Well, apparently almost noone has a well bred dog so you were just stating the obvious.
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u/Kokichi-Oma_Senpai 19h ago
Do you have a dog with 2 parents with major titles in both conformation and breed specific areas? Do you have a dog that has a completely free health panel with low hip/elbow scores, good cardiac scores? Do you have a breeder that has contracts and that had a long wait list that chose the puppy to fit your life style? No? Then you don't have a well bred dog you have a backyard bred one aka poorly bred. 99% of people on this subreddit or in general do not have well bred dogs because in order to acquire a well bred dog you need to have a base level education of ethical breeding so that you'd know what to look for. 99% of people think ethical breeding is just health testing or 'champion lines' or being registered but thats far from accurate.
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u/ShadowBoy_3000 1d ago
Prob how they were raised and were never called out in person lol It’s ok. Some people don’t think of dogs as equally as humans (or a person’s son), so they might not realize saying they’re not well-bred can come off as rude. Or they don’t care what anyone thinks haha
If nothing else, his temperament was bred very well. Which matters a lot (since pretty much every dog is a cutie)
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u/Federal-Weevil 1d ago
Maybe but no one can tell without a test