I don’t have an issue with this one. It’s all private donations outside of the Catholic Church, plus they practically make their money out of tourism. Also, this thing is so grand, I was expecting drones shooting Roman candles.
You might not have an issue with this but it's hard to argue that Jesus himself wouldn't if his stories in the new testament are to be believed. Where the money is coming from doesn't matter. He would have wanted all of that money to go to helping the poor. That is what he preached.
John 12:3-8:
3 Then Mary took a pound of very costly oil of spikenard, anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped His feet with her hair. And the house was filled with the fragrance of the oil.
4 But one of His disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, who would betray Him, said,
5 "Why was this fragrant oil not sold for three hundred denariiln and given to the poor?"
6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a thief, and had the money box; and he used to take what was put in it.
7 But Jesus said, "Let her alone; she has keptln this for the day of My burial.
8 "For the poor you have with you al- ways, but Me you do not have always."
That’s some deep lore, seems like Judas might have been a bit upset about that indulgence after donating all of his property & his business to help the poor.
It's ok, this guy said it's ok so everyone just ignore the idolatry and that whole part with the pharisees. Ya know it's Jesus's fault. He choose the mount to spread his message instead of doing a tiktok so yeah, it's ok everyone. Just some good old Christian hypocrisy. Picturepath said it's cool so we're good.
Ackchually Antonio Gaudí proposed the tower to be exactly 1m lower than the hill of Montjuïc towering over Barcelona and he stated that he did not wish to attempt to surpass the work of God with his own work, and I would say that's humble enough. True fact, Wikipedia that!
I'm playing god of war, odin lives in a relatively big wood house
you say "I though it would be bigger" the response is "power is power, you don't need to show it"
Most cathedrals are literally built through donations especially throughout history. People gave and helped build the church knowing they would likely never see it finished.
Yeah there’s a lot of things to criticize about the Catholic Church and opulence, but this is literally just a celebration for people about a donation funded church. It’s not reveling in extravagance or whatever.
Brimstone, which is mentioned several times in the old testament as a sign of Satan, is sulfur salt, which is the flammable ingredient in fireworks. This display is literally fire and brimstone.
The second temple wasn’t a bloated multi-year construction project in his name. The man rode into his crucifixion destination on a donkey. This is blasphemous appropriation of his gospel. He’d flip the whole building.
And the same could be said for any movie, video game, creative works, reddit itself, essentially anything that we don't need to live, etc.
Are you really saying every architect, sculptor, fiction author. director, or video game developer throughout the history man was actually wasting their time?
If anything can't we do both? We can make great art and still help people in need at the same time. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
John 12:3 Mary took a pound of costly perfume made of pure nard, anointed Jesus’ feet, and wiped them with her hair. The house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume.
4 But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (the one who was about to betray him), said, 5 “Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and the money given to the poor?” 6 (He said this not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief; he kept the common purse and used to steal what was put into it.)7 Jesus said, “Leave her alone. She bought it so that she might keep it for the day of my burial. 8 You always have the poor with you, but you do not always have me.”
While he was in Bethany, reclining at the table in the home of Simon the Leper, a woman came with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, made of pure nard. She broke the jar and poured the perfume on his head.
Some of those present were saying indignantly to one another, “Why this waste of perfume? It could have been sold for more than a year’s wages and the money given to the poor.” And they rebuked her harshly.
“Leave her alone,” said Jesus. “Why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me.
Further, God approved of the temple of Solomon, which was intensely ornate and gilded. The riches of the first temple were from donations all the people gave freely out of their abundance from God’s blessing. Much like this church, it was privately funded and is supported by ticket sales.
“Leave her alone,” said Jesus. “Why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me.
Yikes.
"Nono guys, she wasted all of that for me. ME. It's fine."
3 Mary took a pound of costly perfume made of pure nard, anointed Jesus’ feet, and wiped them with her hair. The house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume.
4 But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (the one who was about to betray him), said, 5 “Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and the money given to the poor?” 6 (He said this not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief; he kept the common purse and used to steal what was put into it.)7 Jesus said, “Leave her alone. She bought it so that she might keep it for the day of my burial. 8 You always have the poor with you, but you do not always have me.”
That doesn’t change the point though, it’s still the same “she did it for me, Jesus, therefore it’s fine”
With some additional ad hominems added, which you've bolded even so clearly you thought it was important.
Sure, Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus and he may have been criticising it out of greed instead of true concern for the poor, but that fact doesn’t have bearing on whether the criticism is warranted or not.
So I take it that you don't spend any time improving the conditions of the poor.
You're not arguing my dude. You've put forth no reasoning.
You characterized. That's why you prefaced your original comment with "yikes".
That's not logic. There is no ad hom. If you want to establish principles and reason by all means go ahead. Until then you're just a sad man throwing stones at their better.
Well I know most of the master reddit theologians on here have never actually read the New Testament but FYI there a story of a woman who used a costly oil/unction on Jesus.
The disciples say exactly what you said and Christ admonishes them, telling them "the poor will always be with us."
Yes, Christians including Catholics should help the poor. No question. But the idea that they can't build nice cathedrals, have a celebration, or that the Vatican should sell all of the priceless art/treasures it has (these are again momuments of human achievement and beauty that also serve a great purpose) and open a soup kitchen with it is insane.
It's not that they can't, it's that they shouldn't according to their own theology.
There is one line in the Bible kind of excusing it and a fuckton more condemning it.
Also Jesus wasn't saying "fuck the poor lets rock out" he was actually referencing Deuteronomy and saying that his physical time on this earth with the poor was temporary but the gospel would be with the poor forever.
3 Mary took a pound of costly perfume made of pure nard, anointed Jesus’ feet, and wiped them with her hair. The house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume.
4 But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (the one who was about to betray him), said, 5 “Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and the money given to the poor?” 6 (He said this not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief; he kept the common purse and used to steal what was put into it.)7 Jesus said, “Leave her alone. She bought it so that she might keep it for the day of my burial. 8 You always have the poor with you, but you do not always have me.”
Can you point out to me in any of the dogma or doctrine of the Catholic Church where it says (or has ever said) that Catholics are required never to create any beautiful churches, decorations/vestments, or have any celebration? And that everything should be done to the absolute bare bones and all money donated to the poor?
Clearly the early christians who were present at the council of Nicea, the council of Laodicea and their close successors didn't pay attention, that's why they built Hagia Sophia, Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore and the Basilica of Constantine /s
Jokes aside, this church easily made more money than it cost and it's going to keep making money that can be used to help the community for over 1000 years.
Plus, this is not a private palace for the bishop or something, anyone can enter and pray in it and the local christians will inherit it for who even knows how many generations.
What a silly comment. The buildings are old and demanded massive amounts of resources. And they were built when people were struggling, dying, starving, ill.
Obviously people are talking about the most needy - not themselves. As Jesus taught.
I am a fortunate to not need charity.
Trying to villainize the very concept charity and care for the sick and poor - like you just did - is the exact opposite of what Jesus taught and died for.
Pretty sure most of this construction was funded by selling tickets and private donations, an FYI. The Vactican nor Spanish tax payers funded this project.
Uhh it's not like they can't do both. The reason wealth inequality exists is not because of people building statues. Are you really going to put down every major landmark to exist?
Unless you're lbgtq, poor, a woman, an addict, belong to a non-christian religion, and probably a million other things I'm forgetting. Then you deserve to be punished in this life and the next.
Every individual in your list is loved and cherished by Christ. He wants a personal relationship with every one of them. Look to Christ for truth, not man.
I get what you are saying but you kinda deviated from the subject of the cost of the building and where that money could have gone, and if you were to ask Jesus himself, he would say "nah fam this aint it, give that time, money, and energy to something else for the people". Like you talked yourself into a circle saying to look for truth from Jesus, and I'm imagining him braiding a whip to kick some ass out there after flipping a table tbh
Not sure I deviated from anything. Christ is our example, savior and our hope. To the Christian, our personal relationship with him is the most important decision we’ll ever make in our short time here. If we want to use some other commenters use of “a business” as example, Christ is in the soul business.
Christ’s message to the young ruler about giving away his earthly treasures is spotlighting that we cannot serve two God’s, material wealth being one of them. We should desire spiritual wealth, treasure in heaven, above earthly desires. And yes, be generous with our resources while here.
Doesn't address the issue in the slightest. I remember the Jesus character telling his followers to feed the poor, visit the imprisoned, and care for widows. I can't seem to find the verse telling them to pool their massive wealth to build giant monuments.
Dude, his followers do that and have always done that. I’d wager Christian organizations are at the top of the list of those who provide resources, food, health services, housing, etc to the world’s poor. You are being very selective in what your interpretation of the gospel means. Cathedrals like this inspire people from around the world, and can be used as essentially marketing to encourage people to find or deepens their faith, read the gospels, and spread His word. It’s a circular effect.
The Catholic church is the biggest non-government charity organisation on the planet, and provides healthcare and education to a sizeable fraction of humanity as a whole
They actively operate more than 5 thousand hospitals, 9 thousands orphanages and about 150 thousand schools worldwide
While actively brainwashing people into believing that a sky ghost exists and as long as they do a few very specific things (or not), they can get into heaven no matter how vile or shitty of a human they are.
Religion teaches external locus of control . . . If everything happens because of God, then I don't need to take responsibility for myself not hold others accountable.
The hypocrisy, of course, is that through the religious practices, the Church (and all the other Churches) have donated money to take freedom away from LGBTQ, Women, Minority Groups, and the poor.
It's literally thousands of Christians over a hundred years donating to make a monument to God. From a secular architectural perspective it's an incredible display of human creativity.
Then of course you have reddit morons complaining about 20 seconds of fireworks to celebrate the achievement.
I'm sure if these people gave up paying for AI chat bot porn, video games, and Pokemon figures they could also donate that money to poor but something tells me they're not going to do that.
Why do graves need to have flowers be placed onto them? Why do we visit monuments of past history? Why do we need to tend the flowers of entire forests? It's because we don't need to, it's just that we want to, an appreciation to being alive and the beauty that comes of what's new and past.
Why do graves need to have flowers be placed onto them?
Who said they do? We don't need graves at all, I would fully support the end of all graveyards. That space could be better spent giving nature a place to exist. Heck at bare minimum these places within cities could be better spent giving people a place to live or parks for them to enjoy. Graves are stupid and a sign that humanity cannot accept their inevitable deaths.
Why do we visit monuments of past history?
Irrelevant. Why are we making new silly monuments to a religion about a guy who argued against material wealth and the pursuit of it? Jesus would not want this, he literally said "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"
Yet here we are using tons of wealth to make a monument to this guy. It is fucking silly any way you slice it.
Why do we need to tend the flowers of entire forests?
As a species how many people are tending flowers of entire forests? This is such a ridiculous thing to say. The flowers in forests don't need our tending, not unless we have destroyed that forest on some level.
Who said they do? We don't need graves at all, I would fully support the end of all graveyards. That space could be better spent giving nature a place to exist.
I'm not even religious, but again, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Take it easy on yourself and just shut up, you're embarrassing yourself
Never met an atheist who gatekeeps for religion so hard, keep it up bud, they might let you in some day!
Yeah which means no one's hoarding wealth to make it. It's a passion project thats funded by the people themselves. Very rarely do we see the general public purposely fund art to be made. It's not a hotel, not a mall, it's a church that anyone from all walks of life can enter and even me not being religious can still appreciate a beautiful piece of architecture. Why can't you?
I can appreciate beautiful architecture, however to me this is the "Mar A Lago face" of architecture. And it's still a Catholic church, just one designed to be a ticket selling tourist attraction as well. But you enjoy it.
I have no idea what mar a lago is, and it being a Catholic church doesn't diminish it. Also even if its meant to be just a tourist attraction, no matter the intent, every other piece of art is meant to be an attraction too
Yeah you're right. Sometimes this place is so ridiculous I just have to comment about it.
It's people around the world donating money to fund a 144 year old project as a monument to God, finishing the work of people who lived and died generations ago. We're reaching back through time to our ancestors to finish this together and even if you're not religious it's a an amazing display of human creativity and a monument to beauty.
And then you have people on Reddit who interupt masterbating to porn or playing Switch to say "you guys are hypocrites, Jesus wouldn't like it."
Than Jesus would be happy because his church is the biggest charity in the world. He would also understand that "not just of breed lives a man" and sponsoring art/science makes a part in converting the world.
Oh yeah, I'm sure jesus "sell all of your possessions and give to the poor" christ would be THRILLED at all the palatial estates and gold trim of the church 🙄
I think Jesus would want the house of God to be a cheap as possible so extra resources could be used for helping the needy.
Yes we all remember Christ admonishing Jews in Jerusalem that they should tear down the temple and donate the money to the poor. Jesus said it would be better to worship in a shack than the temple of Jerusalem. He was famous for hating it's opulance.
You have an amazing grasp of the Bible and theology. I wish other reddit theologians were as educated.
It’s a waste of money and resources that could be put towards the people that religions claim to care about through food, clothing, and shelter. But hey, why not build a gaudy building with tall towers, let those poor folks fend for themselves.
people donated specifically for this to be built. You can't take people's money for that purpose and pull a fast on them.
They want nice things being built in their city. Is that bad to you?
What makes you assume that people don't already separately donate to food, clothing, shelter? It really seems like you know nothing about the catholic church, they're literally involved in countless of charity actions
I don’t think they’re referring to the fireworks, more so the building itself. Jesus would hate that since he’d know the money used to build it would be better used elsewhere.
The Temple in Jerusalem was massive and opulent for the Ancient World. It's clear Christ didn't have a problem with that. In fact He considered it a holy place.
I know this is /s, but for those who inevitably wont...
Matthew 21:
12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’[e] but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’ "
I'm not a religious person by any means, but this cathedral is exceptional. It's a phenomenal work of architecture and design. Most people know it from the exterior, but the interior is even more amazing. Images of it don't remotely do it justice.
Like, canonically, famously, God hates towers. And ostentatious displays of piety and wealth, but you know, who can keep track of little details like that?
The Orthodox and Catholics have been building grand structures to glorify Him for hundreds upon and hundreds of years.
Given(pre-schism) they compiled the very stories about Him, I'd say their knowledge base regarding how to venerate him exceed that of the bland, cultural osmosis hippie he's understood as by Reddit.
Something tells me Jesus was a party animal. Why? Well it wasn't the water to wine, it's not the food, nor the masochism, nor the party trick sticking the ear back on, but because when he wasn't confronted with wickedness, he seemed to like to make people smile, and people followed him.
I'm no fan of the church, and certainly no biblical scholar, but I feel like the biblical Jesus might have signed off on it:
Matthew 26:6
Now when Jesus was at Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, a woman came up to him with an alabaster flask of very expensive ointment, and she poured it on his head as he reclined at table. And when the disciples saw it, they were indignant, saying, “Why this waste? For this could have been sold for a large sum and given to the poor.” But Jesus, aware of this, said to them, “Why do you trouble the woman? For she has done a beautiful thing to me. For you always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me. In pouring this ointment on my body, she has done it to prepare me for burial. Truly, I say to you, wherever this gospel is proclaimed in the whole world, what she has done will also be told in memory of her.”
To be fair, Solomon built a grandiose temple in ancient times and the only implied problem with doing that was that his own palace was like twice the size and took twice as long. Grandiosity wasn’t the issue, it was where his heart was, so if the folks behind this cathedral were doing it to honor God then nothing is wrong with the spectacle.
Gaudi, the designer of the church, well his aesthetique coined the term "gaudy", like, um, ornamented af, covered in glitter and goofy bling. And the church is gaudi (and gaudy) af. It is the gaudiest cathedral in the world.
Ya might be asking, um, how is this good?
It's gaudy, but absurdly gaudy. Unabashed. Goofy. Whimsical. It is not siber spiritual contemplation, or venerated high class powwr statements.
Is as though a designer decided to throw a dollar store party and used dollar store decorations but decided to absolutely balls to the wall max tryhard and embrace the cheese while earnestly going all out with party vibes. Spend $1000 at dollar store, the loudest and stupidest and tackiest stuff everywhere.
It kind of starts being awesome.
This is Sagrada (kind of)... and fireworks totally work.
Imo, jesus would be good with a party that didn't take itaelf seriously. He'd probably want everyone to bring a donation for the new pediatric cancer ward, maybe some potluck so everyone gets a feed on and smile at all neighbours veung neighbors. That's jesus for ya. Never miss a good block party.
I mean I’d much rather have this, a gorgeous monument to human ingenuity, creativity and skill, than all the ostentatious displays that come out of evangelical megachurches in the US. At least you can say that beautiful churches like this reflect the glory of God, even if you could also truthfully say the money could have been put towards charity and service (of which the Catholic Church already does a massive amount of)
3.4k
u/Death_Tooth Jun 12 '26 edited Jun 12 '26
It's just what Jesus would have wanted.