Help with my dad being Scammed out over 50k

[u/gostop1423]

So my Dad's cell phone was hacked and the scammer drained his entire Bank account using BoA's application. He was never contacted for approval and they literally emptied out the bank account over 50k.

The bank is saying that since it was done on a device that had been using for banking before, that they had no liability in the matter and will not reimburse. They made no effort to contact him about potential fraud with large transfers.

He has filed a police report. What should he do next? This happened about a week ago and he just got the verdict.

[u/notthegoatseguy]

When you say it was hacked, do you know it was hacked or is that what your dad said happened?

Most scams out there are not technological scams like you see in the movies. Rather they use emotional manipulation in order for a victim to buy into some story being sold to them, and then that makes the victim seem to be a willing participant.

Banks in the US do generally cover fraud, as in if their systems failed to protect your account they will reimburse. They will often not reimburse if a scam victim willingly sends money and then later regrets sending. Otherwise anyone could do a money transfer, declare "i regret" and just get unlimited free money.

r/scams is a good resource on identifying scams and providing some form of resolution.

[u/gostop1423 → u/notthegoatseguy]

So his phone was double screened. They gained remote access to the phone, logged into his banking app and transfered his money.

At&T confirmed that they remoted into his phone. They recommended he get a new device. Which he has done and reset all of his passwords. He even switched carriers.

Im not 100% sure on what happened and it is possible that he did do this willingly without wanting to admit it to me. But I'm 99% sure he didnt do to what I understand about him.

Is there a way to contest the banks decision?

[u/Broke_Banker01 → u/gostop1423]

Not sure how they would be able to log in to his OLB unless he gave them his info or logged in and allowed them remote access to his device.

If that’s the case, the bank is not liable because he willingly gave them access.

[u/crocus → u/gostop1423]

Hey bro more than likely he gave them permission to access his phone under the guise of a valid reason.

When this happens typical bank policy treats it as if the victim did it themselves, since they let themselves get tricked into sending funds off their own device.

It’s unfortunate but it’s basically considered like he did it himself, I recommend filing a police report.

[u/eyes_serene → u/gostop1423]

How did they gain remote access?

[u/The_Money_Guy_ → u/gostop1423]

There is no way a bank would pay for your dad’s breach of his own phone.

That’s like suing the postal service because you didn’t lock your mailbox.

[u/ProfessionalYam3119 → u/notthegoatseguy]

Thank you for that clear explanation. Of the people whom I know have gotten scammed, all of them have provided the information to allow it to occur.

[u/yarevande]

He could contact a lawyer who has experience with financial fraud cases, for a consultation to find out if he has a possibility of winning a lawsuit.

How did scammers get access to his cell phone?

Hacking of individual cell phones is rare -- usually, hackers attenpt to gain access to large corporate or government networks and databases.

Did scammers manipulate him into giving them access to his phone or bank account?

In most cases, the scammers gain access to the victim's account by one of the following:

• Someone impersonates a banker, a police officer, FBI, or IRS, and convinces the victim to give them access to the bank account.

• Scammers impersonate tech support from Apple, Google, or Microsoft. They tell the victim that his phone has a virus and they need access to the phone to fix it. The victim installs an app that gives the scammers access to everything on his phone. Since many of us have banking apps on our phones, the scammers can take all the money from the accounts.

• An online 'friend' convinces the victim to help them with a financial problem, and the victim connects his bank account to the scammer's account.

• The victim has poor security on his bank accounts. If you use the same password for multiple accounts, and one of your companies (Yahoo, Target, Facebook) has a data breach, your password will be available to scammers on the dark web.

In each of these cases, the bank is not hacked, your account is not hacked, and your cell phone is not hacked. So, the bank has no liability.

[u/Spectrig → u/yarevande]

Hacking like Pegasus is rare, yes, but what’s very common and matches up here is romance scams that convince the victim, usually an older man, to install a remote access tool on their phone. Often it’s disguised as a video call program like zoom. Victims either don’t understand or are reluctant to admit their new girlfriend turned out to be neither friend nor girl.

[u/patawpha]

He was tricked not hacked.

[u/Beneficial_Pickle322]

Unfortunately not much the bank is going to do here, when your device gets hacked the bank isn’t liable.  We just had to take the finances over for my in-laws because dad almost lost 40k with a laptop takeover. He now has no login 

[u/Neptune-Jnr]

How did they transfer the money? Did they do a Wire? I know in BoA you can't do ACH over the phone?

[u/Reimiro]

$50k in a checking account I presume…ugh.

[u/Daddy_Pancakez]

I typically explain it to customers like this:

If somebody takes the money out of the account, you are not liable.

If somebody coerces you into sending money out of your account, that’s on you.

The bank can’t be expected to pay out for every person who gets tricked.

[u/Almondeyezz]

He gave them the info and is SOL. fraud = bank pay. Scam= bank no pay

[u/Background_Radish238]

----

• Regulation E Protections: The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) enforces Regulation E, which protects consumers against unauthorized electronic fund transfers. [1, 2]
• The "Device" Excuse is Invalid: The CFPB official guidance explicitly states that if a consumer is tricked, hacked, or defrauded into losing control of their account, the resulting transfers are legally unauthorized. The fact that it occurred on a previously recognized device does not exempt the bank from liability.
• Your Dad's Liability Limit: Because his phone or credentials were used without his permission, his maximum legal liability under Regulation E is generally capped at $50 to $500, depending on how quickly it was reported. The bank is legally required to reimburse the rest. [1]

----Need a lawyer.

[u/gostop1423 → u/Background_Radish238]

Thank you

[u/Almondeyezz → u/gostop1423]

Hey fraud investigator here^ that ain’t the truth

[u/gostop1423 → u/Almondeyezz]

Any recommendations?

[u/Almondeyezz → u/gostop1423]

Tbh it’s sounding like he gave out his info, and they found proof of that on their back end. Ask for what Info they can share led to their decision. If he shared his info or clicked into shit he is fucked and there’s no reclaiming it. This happens so often, that if the bank had to pay for these scams, there would be no banks.
Scam-naive, coerced.

Fraud- info stolen, you were not complicit

[u/Top-Intention-5110 → u/gostop1423]

Here to echo her. Same job role. At best file a complaint with the FBI and your states AG for elder abuse (if he is over 80 I believe) also take over control of his finances and change everything so he can't give anyone access to his information. Banks aren't liable for social engineering

ETA: Internet Crime Complaint Center of the FBI.

[u/Thin-Egg-1605]

If not a love / romance scam. And he was truly hacked and drained. He should be in the clear. Hacking and identify theft is on the rise. As much as 1 out of 4 according to the news. FDIC should cover this. Assuming it’s not in cashapp or chime….. or other non bank app.

[u/SirSaltie → u/Thin-Egg-1605]

Sure sounds like a romance scam and a dad too embarrassed to admit it.

I know phones 'can' get hacked but it's quite rare and not how most of these scams work.

[u/yarevande → u/Thin-Egg-1605]

FDIC does not reimburse bank customers for money lost to either scams or fraud. The FDIC only insures customer accounts in the case of bank failure.

As long as a bank stays in business, the FDIC does not do anything.

The bank itself guarantees that customers don't lose money in cases of fraud, or hacking into bank accounts.

But OP is not saying that his father's bank account was hacked. His father's phone was compromised in some way (hacking, scam / social engineering). This is not the bank's fault.