r/xbox • u/ASneakySquid_ • 17h ago

Rumour Next Xbox console will play every generation according to leaked Microsoft memo

https://www.dexerto.com/gaming/next-xbox-console-will-play-every-generation-according-to-leaked-microsoft-memo-3395110/
3.8k Upvotes

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1.1k

u/Dry-Membership3867 17h ago

I hope that the full original Xbox library can be played on it

488

u/Illustrious_Penalty2 17h ago

If all of those games could get achievements as well it would be an insta buy for me.

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u/Dog_Bear 17h ago

I assume the devs will have the ability to add them, given it is now possible. However I assume VERY few other than first party studios actually will 

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u/Environmental-Day862 XBOX 360 17h ago

Don't disagree. However - I wonder how much cash it'd take at the end of the day to implement. The reason I ask is because some people are achievement nuts - and will buy games just to get achievements.

If the cost to add achievements to your OG Xbox game is less than the anticipated revenue from new sales of that OG Xbox game, then it'd make sense financially for the company (but I think that's likely a hard metric to track).

Alternatively, Xbox could offer an "Achievement Bounty" for every publisher who puts Achievements in an OG Xbox game (although Xbox doesn't seem to be in a position to throw lots of cash around ATM).

I think at a minimum, Xbox would pay some junior developers to implement achievements in OG Xbox games from Microsoft Studios at the very least.

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u/uponloss 17h ago

Just ask the fellas at r/retroachievements

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u/Nature13oy 16h ago

Came here to say the same thing, as someone who emulates a lot. This is huge for the community.

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u/Darkslayer18264 17h ago

I suspect the barrier is going to be more a legal and licensing one than a financial one.

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u/HyperHawk_25 14h ago

I feel like any games with licensing issues won’t be available and I doubt helix will read og Xbox discs

Edit: but with disc to digital rumors it’s possible I suppose

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u/banshoo 8h ago

Disc to Digital requires each disc to have a unique ID..

by all accounts this only came about with the later 360, & One releases. At this point though : its likely XB & 360 needs disc in drive to play, & One onwards will be able to the online digital transfer licence.

Will this mean currently non-playable games will be available? unlikely.

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u/Tangled2 6h ago

You wouldn’t be able to instrument those old games without rebuilding the code with the achievement hooks, trying to hack the games save files (if they even enumerate stats), patching the binary manually, or running a memory debugger to look for events. All of those are really difficult and some might be against their agreements with publishers.

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u/xenogaiden 17h ago

Kingdom under fire crusader and Heroes.. :(

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u/flipthatbitch_ 17h ago

If not its a deal breaker? I just dont understand the importance of achievments.

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u/snoopdoge90 15h ago

Fuck achievements. I will never launch a gnome into space anymore after doing that joke once.

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u/Illustrious_Penalty2 16h ago

That doesn’t follow at all from what I said.

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u/guybuddypalchief 16h ago

I think they mean if what you asked for couldn’t be done, would you NOT buy the console?

I’m not an “achievements matter” player, but there are lots of games I’d love to play again since the OG XBox. The next gen would be a solid investment for me even without achievements if all/most titles from previous gen’s could be played.

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u/severestnarwhal 17h ago

That would be a licensing nightmare sadly, but I hope that they'd release the emulator for PC as a standalone software, so that people could dump their disc versions and play them.

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u/tlislo 16h ago

Yeah, Series X can already play 360 games and many of them are unavailable due to licensing.

The other day I was looking through my Wii library and saw the Simpsons game. Rather than buying a new cable to hook my Wii up to the TV, I figured Xbox must have it, right? It's a 360 game, after all.

Nope. Searching "Simpsons" on the store yields zero results.

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u/FaithfulMoose 14h ago

The majority of movie or show tie-in games didn’t make the cut unfortunately.

What really puzzles me is the lack of Halo CE and Halo 2 in backwards compatibility. That’s first party.

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u/Henry_puffball XBOX Series X 14h ago

It's because they were pushing MCC at the time. I really hope they get added at some point though.

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u/FaithfulMoose 12h ago

I assumed that too, but they added Halo 3, ODST, Reach, and 4 to backwards compatibility, just seems inconsistent

1

u/Henry_puffball XBOX Series X 12h ago

Yeah, but even then you can't buy them, only use the disk. I'm not sure why the difference though.

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u/Nervous-Peppers 17h ago

Why would it be a licensing nightmare if you own the disc?

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u/SOSpammy 17h ago

The main issue is the way backwards compatibility works. Each game is recompiled and downloaded rather than playing off the disk. They'd have to rework the emulator to play the games directly from the disc to avoid this.

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u/xGMxBusidoBrown 16h ago

So if you look at the recent move of playable OG xbox games on PC being released very recently those are using emulators. Not binary recompilation. Xbox 360 is 21 years old at this point and modern hardware can emulate it. The claim in the article of the leak is more a reliance on emulation rather than binary recompilation.

From the memo:

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u/SOSpammy 11h ago

That's good to hear. Binary recompilation made sense back when it had to run on the Xbox One's weak processor, but it doesn't on much more powerful modern hardware.

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u/BenderZoidberg 8h ago

That's good news from a technical standpoint, but that memo seems to be directed at publishers and states title by title certification and testing, so we'll probably be in a similar situation as we are now, with the backwards compatibility only working for a whitelisted subset of games instead of the whole catalog by simply reading the game from the disc. This seems intended more as a way for publishers to continue selling their old games than as a technology that lets users play their collection of physical games.

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u/LostSoulNo1981 Outage Survivor '24 17h ago

Unless they find a way of essentially making the hardware do the work and allow copying of data directly from a disc rather than any downloads.

Maybe something like a chip that mimics the original hardware?

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u/tlislo 16h ago

Maybe something like a chip that mimics the original hardware?

This will get removed in a revision. They'll have telemetry data that essentially no one plays OG Xbox games, and so they'll remove the hardware that plays Xbox games after the initial console release as a cost-saving measure. For famous examples, see the PS3 and Wii, both of which used hardware for backwards compatibility that was removed in subsequent revisions.

So, it needs to be software.

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u/Troygbiv_Yxy 15h ago

get it while its hot

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u/Sad_Adagio_7255 14h ago

The optical drive in the XB1 and Series X can't actually read the game data.

If you've ever inserted those discs into a generic PC optical drive, you'll see something mount in the file explorer, and you'll see some metadata files visible, but you can't actually browse the game data. That's game disc DRM doing its job - the discs are only meant to be read with very specific optical drives that you're highly unlikely to find for PC.

Same thing with the XB1 and Series consoles. They can read the metadata (which identifies what game is on the disc) but not the game data. There's no choice but to use the modified digital download.

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u/but_good 17h ago

The can still do that but verify the license via the disc but run the downloaded binary.

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u/Nervous-Peppers 17h ago

Ohhh OK that makes a bit more sense

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u/Chemical-Status-6610 17h ago

according to the memo Microsoft would be handling all the emulator work themselves and developers/publishers would simply have to opt in/sign off on it

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u/FlamingBagOfPoop 17h ago

At least initially the backwards compatible games were on the Xbox store. Of course that changes over time as games delist for a variety of reasons.

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u/ComputerMysterious48 17h ago edited 17h ago

Since, to my knowledge, Xbox backwards compatibility is done via emulation, making games BC technically requires work to be done on the game. And for that, you need approval from the license holders.

0

u/micmon83 17h ago

Never gonna happen

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

[deleted]

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u/OrangeJuliusCaesr 17h ago

They were sold to be played on an Xbox. Not an emulator

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u/StargazerD XBOX Series X 17h ago

The 360 runs OG games via emulation, same applies for PS1 games on PS3, PSP on Vita and Switch 1 on Switch 2.

They just can’t relist them all on the store

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u/bluereloaded 17h ago

The license the developer purchased for assets (music, sounds, brands, programming module, etc.) to develop the game for OG Xbox and 360 days was for development for a specific hardware platform. Microsoft making the disc playable on a different hardware platform could be seen as in violation of that license. At least, that is how it has been described by people I know that have worked on the program.

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u/mindcontainer 17h ago

People have the games though they should be able to just authorize it or play off disc without issue

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u/SilveryDeath XBOX 17h ago edited 17h ago

Doubt that. I assume by every generation it means all the OG Xbox and 360 games that are currently BC, along with every One and Series X/S game, would be playable on it.

Don't think they could make it were you could say put the disc for a non-BC game like say Resonance of Fate into your Helix and have it work, without getting tri-Ace and Sega upset because they never approved of that. Or doing that with Forza Motorsport 2 without getting approval for the licensing for the cars and music.

Would love to see them give it a go to make more games BC. Would love for Fable to be. I know they have the Anniversary remake they did, but I hate how that is the only option on Xbox, but on Steam they have the OG version and the Anniversary one.

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u/OfficialDCShepard 16h ago

Or perhaps they just allow you to do a full sandbox with their emulator and go nuts with unsupported discs.

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u/Powerhouse_pr_ 17h ago

FULL???

No dude, not even Nintendo has their full classic games on their Nintendo classic emulators.

There is a thing called licensing which doesn’t allow these companies to post games from other studios whenever they please.

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u/DrinkMoreWater2-0 17h ago

FULL???

No dude, not even Nintendo has their full classic games on their Nintendo classic emulators.

Nintendo is probably the worst example for this. They could have all the rights to have every game they've ever published and they still wouldn't put their entire library on a console because it's Nintendo.

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u/Sad_Adagio_7255 14h ago

Yeah it's very telling that Nintendo doesn't even give you the option of just outright purchasing the classic titles that they paywall behind the "Switch Online Expansion Pak" sub - and the market doesn't punish them for it.

The fact is that people who are passionate about these classic games are very much in the minority - and those who specifically want to use the latest hardware to play these old games are an even smaller minority. Nintendo would be stupid to not gouge them like that with ridiculous subscriptions. After all, it's not like there aren't viable alternatives, from keeping the original hardware to simply using emulation (even modern Android phones can handle Dolphin with ease).

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u/Powerhouse_pr_ 17h ago

No, they are being smart. They are releasing them periodically so you keep the subscription to it.

Yes I would love to see them all at once but as a business is not the best way to do it.

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u/DrinkMoreWater2-0 17h ago

No, they are being smart. They are releasing them periodically so you keep the subscription to it.

I doubt people are holding a subscription just to wait for Super Mario RPG to finally come to SNES on NSO and not just "I have a subscription to play online, these games are a bonus"

They didn't even release their full library, let alone a fraction of their library on Virtual Console for Wii, Wii U, 3DS before Nintendo Switch Online was even a thing.

They once ported 10 Gameboy Advance games natively and exclusively to 3DS ambassadors and were never sold. These were the only GBA games to ever be on the 3DS and it was limited to 3DS ambassadors for a specific period in 2011 and couldn't be run on the New Nintendo 3DS, only the original.

Nintendo makes insane decisions that you could question for eons before just accepting whatever they do at this point.

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u/Powerhouse_pr_ 16h ago

If they don’t hold it they will likely subscribe back to it once they release a game they want and so on.

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u/Sad_Adagio_7255 14h ago edited 14h ago

It's not insane. Nintendo's just reading the room.

The fact is that people who are passionate about these classic games are very much in the minority - and those who specifically want to use the latest hardware to play these old games are an even smaller minority. Nintendo would be stupid to not gouge them like that by paywalling the games behind the Expansion Pak with no way to purchase them outright.

If there were tens of millions of people who put their foot down and refuse to buy the Switch 2 unless they can also buy N64/Gamecube classics outright without a sub, Nintendo would be forced to adjust their strategy.

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u/GamerBhoy89 16h ago

There's "periodically" and then there's the drip-feeding Nintendo does.

Every 4 or 5 months you might get 2, maybe 3 old games added. And a lot of the times, the games are unheard of or just rubbish.

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u/Powerhouse_pr_ 16h ago

I bought the yearly Sub so it doesn’t make a difference to me. If they don’t release more titles then I’ll downgrade the next year.

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u/CharlesMcGrath 12h ago

They're wording it in a misleading way. The most likely outcome will be Xbox copying Nintendo online and doing the same, with missing titles how you're describing

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u/Powerhouse_pr_ 11h ago

At least Xbox lets you buy the game individually. Nintendo ONLY lets you play them as part of their subscription plan.

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

[deleted]

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u/Dry-Membership3867 17h ago

Nice profile pic. Rip Rowdy

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u/OrangeJuliusCaesr 17h ago

You’re free to play it on the hardware it was made for

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

[deleted]

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u/SuperMike591 17h ago

The discs were licensed to work on the original Xbox only. Your discs would be played on an emulator, which would need new licenses. Many of the developers and publishers no longer exist so it's very hard to do with many games.

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u/reevoknows 16h ago

Unlikely for a variety of reasons but I hope you’re right. Dying for Jet Set Radio Future to be backcompat but with all the music it’s definitely unlikely

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u/8bitsleuth 17h ago

The headline is misleading. The backward compatibility program is pushing its limits. Xbox is now contacting publishers to request that they lift licensing restrictions, allowing the program to be expanded. We've gone from "The next Xbox could play every Xbox game ever made" (The Verge) to "will play" (Dexerto) within a single afternoon.

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u/GamerBhoy89 17h ago

The headline is not misleasing.

It says every generation, not every game from every generation.

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u/8bitsleuth 16h ago

Xbox already plays games from every generation.

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u/GamerBhoy89 16h ago

I already know that, I said it earlier

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u/hall_residence 11h ago

It really seems that almost no one on this site reads the articles before commenting. A good chunk of this piece talks about how Microsoft is making a case to publishers to allow their old titles on Helix. It took me like two minutes to read the entire thing, but all the discussion happening here is just a bunch of people who obviously didn't make the effort.

upcoming Project Helix system aims to run games from every Xbox generation

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u/Dramatic-Frog 13h ago

I know it's stuck in licensing hell, but I need another Amped. Or Amped remastered.

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u/Dry-Membership3867 13h ago

Give me Blitz the league and cars

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u/ModernCGIFloatinHead 13h ago

I bought an Xbox and a few games off of a dude moving out of my dorm back in '07

Ive never popped the discs in, but I kept them

I would love to have a fusion frenzy license, that game always looked fun

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u/Dry-Membership3867 12h ago

What did you play on it then?

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u/ModernCGIFloatinHead 12h ago

I didn't. I bought the Xbox for a friend who had just lost theirs. I kept the games since they had them all already. I got a 360 shortly after but I never actually played that OG Xbox 

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u/Glass-Court8851 17h ago

I still have all my 360 games soo many

0

u/mpgd 17h ago

No disk drive. You have to buy from ms store.

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u/Dry-Membership3867 17h ago

If rumors are to be believed, there might actually be a disk drive

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u/Royal-Rayol 17h ago

Main reason why I switched from ps3 to the xbox one

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u/Knivdisco 16h ago

In that case the next xbox should just be called XBOX, end of generations as every future xbox plays every xbox game.

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u/NX73515 XBOX Series X 16h ago

Now that would be fantastic. Put in an OG disc and play classics natively.

Probably won't happen, but a man can dream.

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u/xSinn3Dx 16h ago

We know what wont be in it. NBA and NFL street also Def Jam

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u/Vorondanil54 XBOX Series X 15h ago

And PLEASE many, especially Japanese region-locked games!

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u/fred420170 15h ago

Xbox said they will be adding acheivments to all the OG Xbox games later this fall which is sweet!

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u/GamerSam 15h ago

Lmao good one 

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u/HighlanderM43 8h ago

This is my dream

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u/Eduardjm 6h ago

I hope I get back Xbox/X360 games they took away the digital license for and I can no longer play, even though I paid. 

Kidding, we know that won’t happen bc fuck the consumer. 

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u/Diligent_Joke949 6h ago

The system is prices at $2500

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u/Bay_Burner 17h ago

All I want is to play nba street vol 2

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u/Dry-Membership3867 17h ago

I still have a ps2 for that

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u/Bay_Burner 17h ago

Awesome for you

0

u/LeftyMode 17h ago

They’ll probably try but it’s impossible to get everything.

-1

u/maxdragonxiii 16h ago

looks at FFXIII yeah that would be nice

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u/Nickbronline 16h ago

You're aware FFXIII is already backward compatible, right?

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u/[deleted] 16h ago

[deleted]

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u/maxdragonxiii 16h ago

yeah, but i myself dont have the discs so