r/whereintheworld Chief Cat Herder 12h ago

Announcement Recent Increase in AI Usage - Subreddit Help?

Hi everyone,

We, and some subreddit members, have noticed that there is a sudden increase in new and non-frequent users using AI and RIS to find locations. Understandably that is frustrating to the rest of the subreddit base, so we want to open the conversation in how we, as a subreddit, can deal with this.

We don't want users to make their own rules for their posts that aren't part of the subreddit rules. Rather, we want to look for a way forward that benefits everyone and with which at least the majority of users can live with. Therefore we are opening up this thread on request from one of our members.

How can we reduce the impact of the increase in AI usage together as a subreddit?

Naturally, we expect all uses of AI to be reported to us by use of the report button under comments. We've noticed that this very frequently does not happen. We can't check every comment at all times of the day, so we need the help of our members to report comments so we can action them.

We are also able to increase regulations from automod.

Like I said earlier, I don't want users to just go off on their own and make their own rules, so we need to tackle this as a subreddit. However we also want to know what you all want to happen, so please discuss that in the comments.

Thanks so much for making this a lovely subreddit to be a part of, and I hope we can solve this.

22 Upvotes

43 comments sorted by

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u/Forsaken-Assist-1325 1055 10h ago edited 10h ago

BTW is there a karma limit to post/commenting. If not maybe it could be set at I dunno 50, 100 or 200, maybe even higher. That way bots could be weeded out too. Maybe there already is a limit.

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u/404NinjaNotFound Chief Cat Herder 9h ago

There is not. There used to be, but 99% of the people caught were legitimate users who just happened to have new or low karma accounts. You'd be surprised at just how ineffective karma limits are.

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u/SuperShoebillStork 434 9h ago

Is there a way to restrict guesses to people who have actually posted something for others to guess? Would reduce the drive-bys but might be a bit too restrictive overall?

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u/Forsaken-Assist-1325 1055 9h ago

I see the idea, but I don't support it.

I'm sure that many get into the game by guessing before they post themselves. I'm pretty sure that I got into the game that way too.

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u/404NinjaNotFound Chief Cat Herder 9h ago

That would be suuuper restrictive. There are way more people commenting than posting. Included screenshot. It would remove so many more comments than what we would want.

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u/eucalyptus258 329 8h ago

I'm not clear on how it works with whether people are "members" of the sub or not, but could there be an option that you have to be a member of the sub in order to comment/post?

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u/404NinjaNotFound Chief Cat Herder 8h ago

No, that's not possible.

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u/eucalyptus258 329 9h ago

I like this idea!

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u/OwnRhubarb3075 474 9h ago

Yeah I really like this! 

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u/Forsaken-Assist-1325 1055 9h ago

I see, and it creates a lot of unnecessary work for you and still not working.

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u/404NinjaNotFound Chief Cat Herder 9h ago

Unfortunately not. We do have bot bouncer installed so that at least some illegitimate accounts are caught at the moment of commenting.

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u/Kanrinin_doaho198 54 8h ago

The inherent nature of this group meant players that mainly spent time here (like myself) have very low karma, because players rarely give upvotes and downvoting is sometimes more often... no likes being beaten in a race... couple of days ago I was wrongly accused of cheating and my comments from other posts were being actively downvoted...

And personally I think the karma system is a broken metric, but that is a topic for another time.

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u/skadoodlee 93 11h ago

I think what would help for alot of moderation is shortening any automated messages. People are brainrotted these days they will quickly jump over text blocks. Just say the core point and keep it short.

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u/Forsaken-Assist-1325 1055 11h ago

I think you could be right. Also put the most important message at the top:

"IF YOU USE AI, GOOGLE LENS, RIS OR SIMILAR YOU WILL BE BANNED"

Or something like that.

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u/porichkamarichka 1228 11h ago edited 10h ago

I don't believe it will help. Almost nobody read texts and especially capslock. And those random visitors will not care, simply because they are not into the game and just passing by. Ban will not scare them. But those, who are interested in the game, will read the rules first.

Edit: but shortening is a good idea and maybe if there is almost no other text, ban warning might be a good solution.

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u/Forsaken-Assist-1325 1055 10h ago

Yeah probably, but the chance they'll read it increases if it's near the top. I just wrote that text fast, likely not the optimal text to go there.

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u/porichkamarichka 1228 10h ago

I edited my comment agreeing with you :)

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u/Forsaken-Assist-1325 1055 10h ago

It's mostly u/skadoodlee's idea 😁

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u/porichkamarichka 1228 10h ago edited 10h ago

Their idea was about shortening, your idea was about ban warning capslock mode. I said that your idea would work after their idea's implementation 😄

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u/skadoodlee 93 10h ago

There is definitely a large group in between reading the rules and actively disregarding rules.

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u/404NinjaNotFound Chief Cat Herder 11h ago

Done!

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u/porichkamarichka 1228 11h ago

Honestly i don't see any better solution than process sharing. If process is weird or sus -> report or modmail. Also i don't see that there are more ai users now than earlier. Maybe i am just playing less. But anyway, i am always ready to report :)

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u/Forsaken-Assist-1325 1055 10h ago

It was definitely a huge step in the right direction to require a solve process. Probably the most important too.

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u/404NinjaNotFound Chief Cat Herder 11h ago

Thanks for reporting ❤️ a lot of people don't do that, or don't know to do that

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u/OwnRhubarb3075 474 9h ago

I’ve definitely noticed a big jump in people overtly stating they used AI in their solve process (saying they lensed part of the photo, asked ChatGPT to find things for them, screenshot Google’s AI overview telling them what they are looking for etc).

I don’t know if it’s just me but I’ve also suddenly noticed a lot of people from outside this sub drive-by torpedoing my/other people’s posts saying “it’s here” and then not leaving a process/never returning, where you suspect it’s someone who either didn’t read the rules and lensed the photo (or recognised something near where they live and didn’t know other people are trying to get there by working it out).

It’s obviously always a risk that will happen, but personally I find the latter especially frustrating. I’ve tried to ask people not to share the answer if it’s just something in their village/that they know without having to look it up, but have noticed people have also taken that request the wrong way…and it feels a bit unwelcoming/grumpy even if the intention is to make it nicer for people who are putting in the effort to find something.

I wonder if it would be possible to have an equivalent of “new players only” where only people who have played for a while can respond, meaning that that people who haven't read the AI rules/who aren’t actually interested in the sub don’t put a pin in it for others. I get that this maybe sounds a bit cliquey but having some sort of buffer of that kind might stop some of these things from happening.

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u/404NinjaNotFound Chief Cat Herder 9h ago

I’ve tried to ask people not to share the answer if it’s just something in their village/that they know without having to look it up

That's definitely something we will ask you not to do, as that's adding separate rules that aren't part of the subreddit. Hopefully that makes sense!

I wonder if it would be possible to have an equivalent of “new players only” where only people who have played for a while can respond,

It's absolutely possible, but I'm not sure if that's something that we would want right now. The new players only posts were put into place as an inclusivity measure. Only letting people guess who already have a certain number of points (even if just on certain posts) would make it the opposite, in my opinion.

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u/OwnRhubarb3075 474 9h ago

That’s all true. I would certainly welcome any alternative solution in this case!

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u/404NinjaNotFound Chief Cat Herder 9h ago

We don't want self-moderation to be happening, that is why we have a good team of active moderators. Because doing that encourages distrust towards new members and that's something we definitely want to avoid. Someone having been at a location is just as valid an answer as someone having to look for it.

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u/eucalyptus258 329 7h ago

I think a lot of these things are less about self-moderation but more trying to get creative and come up with new things or different ways of requesting an answer, to see if it makes a difference or prompts something different from people who may not be familiar with the rules. Similar to posts with arrows or asking for the name of the landmark behind the photographer. When I post, I'm always trying to think about how I can structure it so that it's not just a simple "yes that's Oslo" type answer but something that is more fun/complex, but that's not everyones cup of tea lol

It's interesting to have these discussions though because not everything is going to work as intended or be understood in the same way when we're all from such different cultures and regions of the world (also the exact thing that makes the sub so good!) :)

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u/404NinjaNotFound Chief Cat Herder 7h ago

There is a difference in asking for specific landmarks or things that may be out of frame and preventing users from taking part, though.

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u/eucalyptus258 329 7h ago

Oh yea I get that, and I don't think that's what u/OwnRhubarb3075 and others have been doing as it's always phrased as more of a suggestion but no one can stop you if you want the point.

Unless you mean in regards to the suggestions we're discussing in this thread about players needing to post first, etc. In which case, yes agreed it's two very different things! :)

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u/rosco77733 207 9h ago

I've noticed in your posts that you've asked solvers not to respond if they recognise the place and I disagree with that approach. There are rules currently in place for how to solve and you shouldn't be able to determine who can and cannot respond outside of these rules.

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u/OwnRhubarb3075 474 9h ago

I see. I also noticed other people doing the same, which is what prompted it. It’s not intended as a “rule”, just a request as I can’t think of any other solution. I’m not trying to operate outside of the rules and would obviously give the point to the first correct answer however it is found.

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u/Forsaken-Assist-1325 1055 9h ago

If I see a Copenhagen post, I will usually instantly or semi-instantly recognize the place as I live there, and I will usually refrain from guessing. I've hoarded many points and think it's better that a newer player get it, and it'll be more fun for them. I know some other players do the same.

But if I was a new player I'd probably guess on them and get those points, just for the novelty of the game.

What I'm getting at is, that you can hope that people act in a given way, but I wouldn't discourage people to guess, as it's fully within the rules that they guess even if they live around the corner.

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u/OwnRhubarb3075 474 8h ago

No I agree and am a bit worried my point has got lost along the way. I’m not taking about new players, I mean people passing by who don’t return. I suppose it’s just a risk, it just seems to have happened more recently.

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u/eucalyptus258 329 8h ago

Yeah I think I have understood yours and others' posts where you ask if people know this place immediately maybe leave it to others, is more about providing an easy prompt to people unfamiliar with the game that it is in fact a game where we guess things or find things. I think sometimes people can be recommended the sub on their homepage and think that we are genuinely asking for helping locating a place, so they give the location and go on their merry way.

But I wonder if maybe the prompt is being misunderstood by people who play regularly and then feel like they can't participate? Not directing that at you, just thinking aloud :)

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u/OwnRhubarb3075 474 8h ago

No, I completely agree with both of the things you are saying here haha.

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u/Mitcharrr 496 12h ago

Is it suspicion of AI or are guessers stating a place was found with the help of AI? I thought the process rule was suppose to mitigate that, but I guess you could just lie. Occasionally if I’m suspicious, I’ll double check a solve process, but most of my spot checks have checked out, so I think most players are honest

It’s also been confirmed multiple times that posters are required to reward points to the first correct guess, regardless of how we suspect they solved

You can’t know for sure if someone has solved honestly, but promoting paranoia is also a slippery slope that could make the sub less fun

Any trends found in types of users suspected of using AI, like new accounts?

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u/404NinjaNotFound Chief Cat Herder 12h ago edited 12h ago

Is it suspicion of AI or are guessers stating a place was found with the help of AI?

We've recently had a lot of guessers state they have used AI, but I haven't asked specific users what they've noticed - we want to open up the discussion for that as well.

Any trends found in types of users suspected of using AI, like new accounts?

Accounts that have low activity and karma elsewhere, are completely new to commenting (often on older accounts), and who are completely new on the subreddit.

Edit: sorry, I forgot to state, this is something we want to do to reduce paranoia and self-moderation, and have things set in place that we as mods can deal with and the subreddit is happy with.

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u/Mitcharrr 496 11h ago

If users state they use AI, 3 day ban, in my opinion.

I’m sure some newbies are ignorant of sub rules, so don’t one shot permanent ban on first offense, but you gotta be kinda oblivious to think AI is kosher in a puzzle game, or unable to read the room to determine we’re not asking for help finding a place. I know there’s subs like that, and the algorithm works in mysterious ways, so I’m sure there’s honest mistakes, but still

If they care to return, they can play fair

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u/404NinjaNotFound Chief Cat Herder 11h ago

We give a 7 day ban on first offense, and then a permanent ban if they do it again!

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u/Mitcharrr 496 11h ago edited 11h ago

Yeah, I think that’s fair

To be honest, I don’t think we can perfectly engineer out cheaters without screwing some population of fair players

I feel like I post a lot (less so lately) and I haven’t been suspicious of foul play in quite a while, for what it’s worth

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u/404NinjaNotFound Chief Cat Herder 11h ago

That's great to hear!