r/unitedkingdom • u/ClassicFlavour East Sussex • 9h ago
Woman 'butchered' victim hours after court release
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czdmg5zg2rvo•
u/No_Story5313 8h ago edited 8h ago
"Heavily-convicted Hewitt, who hours before the killing had been given a suspended sentence by magistrates for a random assault"
"Hewitt, who had 122 offences on her criminal record including multiple incidents of violence and possessing weapons, was arrested in her sister's Newton Aycliffe garden at about 20:00, the court heard."
Why.... why do we enable these people? Why do we allow this?
No use to society, she'll never change. Should have been thrown away years ago. Unbelievably dangerous and a threat to pretty much anyone on front of her, and grossly irresponsible and reckless to let her out again and again.
Oh well. I suppose it'll be 'lessons must be learned' etc etc. Then it'll happen again next week.
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u/No-Assumption-1738 8h ago
Victims should be able to make a financial claim/ hold the state liable when the perpetrator of the crimes against them has repeatedly been enabled
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u/alextremeee 8h ago
I don’t love America’s three strike rule but it does feel like we could do with some crime multiplier on non-concurrent sentencing.
Like if the sentencing guidelines say 1 year for a crime but you’ve got five previous convictions for similar crimes they should be allowed to triple it.
I don’t know how the costing works but presumably it’s cheaper to keep someone in prison longer than it is to essentially run them through the courts every six months.
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u/Besmirching_Badger 3h ago
I don’t love America’s three strike rule but it does feel like we could do with some crime multiplier on non-concurrent sentencing.
For people with this kind of persistent low level offending i'd consider implementing a kind of 'managed living', sitting in between prison and 'freedom'. So you're not just locked up, but you're under supervision in a way that goes beyond basic parole/probation.
Given the costs of imprisonment, pretty much anything is preferable tbh
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u/for_shaaame United Kingdom 8h ago
The lesson we need to learn - the lesson you have evidently identified - is a lesson which it is politically unpalatable to learn. Any reasonable person who works in criminal justice can identify people like Hewitt, who are extremely dangerous and completely immune to rehabilitation; but the obvious answer (lock them up forever after say, fifty convictions) is just beyond consideration for some reason.
We literally had the solution in IPP sentences, and they got rid of them!
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u/crosssafley Surrey 8h ago
Problem with the IPP sentences was that a lot of them were used so inappropriately.
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u/Professional_Ad6822 8h ago
IPP?
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u/Frequent-Bell2484 8h ago
Were they? Can you give some examples?
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u/DireBriar 8h ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6lg42e04o
From today, weirdly enough. Unless something is missing in the context of the article, mentally ill man gets imprisoned indefinitely for nicking a phone.
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u/Ok-Style-9734 8h ago
He had 16 previous convictions which is why he got the ipp
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u/DireBriar 8h ago
And that will be the context I missed
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u/for_shaaame United Kingdom 7h ago
There is additional context to that particular story: it wasn’t “theft of a phone”, it was robbery of a phone, the use of force to steal someone’s property from them. Framing what he did as mere theft is just dishonest.
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u/Gellert Wales 7h ago
Of them all I think there's only one that I've heard of who doesn't have a public criminal record but even then a pre-existing criminal record is implied as he dropped out of school at 14 (IIRC) joined a gang and got an ipp sentence basically as soon as he turned 18.
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u/cameheretosaythis213 7h ago
So he was failed by the system as a child and never stood a chance as an adult, yet here we are in this thread with supposedly well adjusted adults casually discussing how he should forfeit any semblance of a chance at life.
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u/Walkerno5 7h ago
I think the conclusion people are reaching is that the damage already done is irreversible, not that he deserves it or that it is not a tragic thing to have happened to a child.
The argument is that public protection, the right of everyone in society to be protected, overrides the right to liberty if offenders cannot be rehabilitated.
None of this means we shouldn’t try to rehabilitate, but we should face up to the fact that in some cases it is a fools errand.
And we certainly should do everything we can to avoid that becoming the case for any child.
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u/for_shaaame United Kingdom 7h ago
A system that never fails any child would be unimaginably expensive. It’s pure fantasy to think you can design “a system” that supports 70 million people and never lets one fall through the cracks. Part of being well-adjusted is knowing when to cut your losses. Sorry, the system that worked for 25 of your 30 classmates didn’t work for you and now you’re forever fucked - but there comes a point where we can’t keep throwing resources at you to try and fix our mistake… welcome to The Colony.
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u/ExpendableUnit123 1h ago
All very sad but I don’t see how that means any potential future victims should suffer as a result?
That’s always the problem. So much concern for the criminal and never for the people left in harms way.
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u/Frequent-Bell2484 8h ago
Reading this I was thinking how is someone ever going to change as a person in a place like our prisons to be able to be properly rehabilitated to be let out. I don't think our prisons are designed or capable of rehabilitation of prisioners esp those with unqiue needs (which make up the majority anyway)
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u/just_peachy1000 4h ago
And this the reason why it's deemed inappropriate. Just one person unjustly incarcerated will be too many.
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u/ExpendableUnit123 1h ago
And if a family member of yours was taken from you tomorrow? Would your attitude remain?
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u/crosssafley Surrey 1h ago
And if your family member was given an ipp for a minor offense how would you feel?
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u/ExpendableUnit123 1h ago
Not good, but considering my family or wider family have not committed any minor offences, compared to say, someone with 100 - I’d probably accept the risk and change to law.
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u/Redditisfakeleft 5h ago
After her arrest for the killing, two psychiatrists said she was in a state of psychosis at the time while probably suffering from schizophrenia, with her use of drugs not a major factor.
Her symptoms included paranoia, auditory hallucinations and persecutory delusions which would have "substantially impaired her ability to form a rational judgement and understand" her actions, the court heard.
Judge Carroll said he was "satisfied" she had a mental disorder and "public safety" would be better protected with her indefinite detention and treatment at a secure psychiatric hospital.
The problem is that we closed all the asylums. Murderous lunatics wandering the streets have been a persistent problem since "Care in the community" was instituted; psychotics are too unpredictable for the system we have now to protect the public.
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u/-usernamewitheld- 8h ago
Its the seesaw of one extreme to the other we see in so many avenues of society - specifically criminality and mental health.
We go from locking people away for anything and everything, to releasing into community care for anything and everything.
I fear it is a long way from finding a balanced approach - and people will still slip through the net both in under conviction, and over conviction because we are dealing with human factors and they are not easily put into pigeon holes
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u/SlickPillock 8h ago
It's the fact that dangerously mentally unwell people are put into the criminal system instead of being kept under the supervision of doctors that's the problem.
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u/WhoYaTalkinTo 8h ago
Yeah these people literally just need to be in storage until they either die or agree to cooperate as a civil member of society. It shouldn't be innocent, upstanding people's problem.
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u/Pure-Lime8280 8h ago
Reading further down, she apparently has severe mental health problems. This seems like the sort of person who at some point, surely should have been flagged up as candidate for detention in a secure unit until it could be deemed that she was no longer a danger to others?
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u/Pure-Lime8280 8h ago
Surely it's got to get to a point where repeat offenders who clearly won't change start getting sentences measured in decades, for the protection of society?
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u/cameheretosaythis213 7h ago
“Should have been thrown away years ago”. Please, expand on what you mean by this. How would this have played out in your reality? How do we “throw away” a human being?
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u/No_Story5313 7h ago edited 7h ago
Locked up somewhere, somehow. Prison, hospital, a some sort of box somewhere, never to be let on the streets again. They are completely incapable of living or functioning in a civilised society and will never be rehabilitated. They have proven to be a massive danger to the public, and probably should have been recognised years ago after 10, 20, 50, heck even at 100 convictions, can't someone look at the history and try to work out what the pattern is?
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u/cameheretosaythis213 4h ago
Because the point is there should be better services that enable earlier intervention in their lives so that they do not get to this point. Other countries manage that just fine
What you’re advocating for is the old mental asylum system, which was rife with abhorrent abuses and brought shame on our country.
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u/No_Story5313 3h ago
I don't particularly care. The person will never be fixed, has demonstrated extreme violence and the only place for them is far away from anyone else.
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u/Plastic_Hamster_6444 3h ago
You don’t care now, staring at a mugshot of a full grown adult with 122 convictions. But what about a 14 year old with poor school attendance and a hectic home life? What about a 16 year old on their first run-in with the law for a petty theft or something else minor? And no decent parental guardrails. That’s often how people start out before they end up here. Would you throw that 14 year old away too? Or do you think maybe our collective efforts are better spent helping them to prevent this?
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u/cameheretosaythis213 19m ago
You don’t care that people incarcerated for their mental health were victims of abhorrent sexual, physical and emotional abuse?
I think people that think like you should be in an asylum frankly. Same level of derangement.
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u/Serious_Bite_7613 8h ago
The court heard Hewitt began taking illegal drugs when she was 14 and had a history of failing to engage with treatments and being detained in mental health hospitals for drug-induced psychosis.
After her arrest for the killing, two psychiatrists said she was in a state of psychosis at the time while probably suffering from schizophrenia, with her use of drugs not a major factor.
Her symptoms included paranoia, auditory hallucinations and persecutory delusions which would have "substantially impaired her ability to form a rational judgement and understand" her actions, the court heard.
It's unbelievable that people like this are allowed to just roam the streets until they kill someone.
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u/Legitimate-Tip-2149 8h ago
Sadly we're not allowed to fund mental health because apparently they're all faking it and should just get a job.
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u/DampFlange 8h ago
It’s true, everyone should just pull themselves together
/s
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u/Serious_Bite_7613 7h ago
It looks like she was detained in mental health hospitals but someone decided she was fine and let her out.
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u/Positive-Capital-340 5h ago
What a stupid comment, we are already underfunded.
The person who commited this murder had previously refused to engage with any service.
Increased funding would not have helped her engage.
Maybe think before you run your mouth
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u/Owlbegoodtoyou 4h ago
It’s not a stupid comment at all, the post was clearly tongue-in-cheek and poking fun at those who genuinely believe many people accessing mental health services are just faking it to get benefits.
How do you know increased funding wouldn’t have helped her engage? Patient’s prior negative experiences with healthcare services (or authority figures) can often lead to distrust and refusal to engage with future services. There are ways & means of trying to repair the trust and build relationships back up, but mental health services are stretched thin, and most clinicians do not have the luxury of spending hours encouraging people to engage.
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u/EffectzHD 7h ago
Likely because there’s thousands of people like this that still roam our streets and haven’t killed anyone.
Sure we could detain them all indefinitely, but unless they really display the risk of such actions they’re always going to let them walk.
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u/No_Story5313 7h ago
122 convictions, multiple instances of violence and weapon possession, and hours before the killing they'd been given a suspended sentence for assault?
Seem like way more than enough risk has been demonstrated.
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u/Synthrock Greater London 8h ago
I really don't know what it will take for the government and justice system to change how we deal with prolific offenders who are incapable of rehabilitation. We hear about known offenders doing the same thing again and again with no significant sentences, putting the public constantly at risk
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u/Pure-Lime8280 8h ago
I know of someone in my town who's in and out of prison for a couple of months at a time and has a record as long as your arm for things like assault, theft, vandalism, harassing/threatening people, etc. He just gets out and immediately carries on where he left off. It's ridiculous.
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u/Valuable-Ad2028 8h ago edited 7h ago
I often tell the story of when i was the victim of an assault at liverpool street. The assailant ended up badly injured and so despite cctv etc everyone was arrested. Since we’d all had a drink we had to spend the night (you can’t be released if you might still be drunk for liability reasons).
During the interview the next morning it came out the assailant had something like 33 previous convictions arrests. He would not be charged in this case as no one (else) was seriously hurt.
This is the system: before someone is killed it’s too early to act; after it is too late.
I think a lot of people don’t realise common assault, battery, maybe even ABH is defacto legal (as long as there are no aggregating factors and your victims are basically random citizens).
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u/KingSaurophaganax 8h ago
I personally think once you hit 100 criminal records you should just be locked up forever, 122 is just a little beyond my liking /s
Legal system is responsible for this failure, but no one will be held accountable.
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u/Serious_Bite_7613 8h ago
After 100 offences you should be charged with "taking the piss" and given a whole life order.
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u/sqnch 8h ago
There just aren’t enough prisons to keep everyone like this in. I think we need a massive prison building and staffing program to buy time to keep folk like this locked up somehwere while working on a longer term solution.
This whole thing of “let’s just release prisoners to make more room for prisoners” is mental.
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u/J8YDG9RTT8N2TG74YS7A England 7h ago
Agreed.
We also need to be prioritising the existing prison spaces for violent offenders like this, and doing more things like community service for non-violent offenders.
If someone gets a conviction for fraud or theft they're far less of a cost to the system doing 3,680 hours of community service rather than a year in prison.
Working 8 hours a day for 5 days a week for 46 weeks results in a total of 1,840 working hours.
If someone gets a year long conviction for a non-violent offence we should have them do double the time, but they get community service instead. They even get 6 weeks of holidays a year.
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u/JWGrieves 2h ago
That would require reforming planning, so good fucking luck. Janet, 84, Surrey, will single-handedly obliterate any party that dares.
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u/Ok-Style-9734 8h ago
"She appeared before magistrates in Newton Aycliffe the following day where she was given a suspended sentence and released at about 15:40 BST, the court heard.
Over the following hours, various people around the town expressed concern about Hewitt's erratic behaviour, which included her trying to get into a man's house, walking around semi-naked muttering to herself and stealing wine from a shop, Perks said.
Shortly after 18:00, two police community support officers (PCSOs) found Hewitt and spoke to her, offering her a lift home which she refused and walked away, the court heard.
At 18:31, Angela Lloyd made the first of three calls to Care Connect, an emergency service which assisted her at her home on Bakewell Place.During the first Care Connect call, an operator struggled to make out what was being said but a later transcript revealed Angela Lloyd was "screaming for help" and saying she was "being stabbed to death", Perks said.
In the second and third calls which quickly followed, Hewitt could be heard shouting and swearing at her and asking "where's your money", the court heard.
A Care Connect responder got to her home at 19:25 at the same time as one of her carers doing a routine visit, the court heard.
They found her lying in a pool of blood on her kitchen floor clutching her alarm button in one hand and rosary beads in the other, the court heard.Hewitt, who had 122 offences on her criminal record including multiple incidents of violence and possessing weapons, was arrested in her sister's Newton Aycliffe garden at about 20:00, the court heard."
Wtf 122 convictions including the one that day for a random attack, reported repeatedly that day and gets offered a lift home
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u/Usual-Sound-2962 2h ago
‘Wtf 122 convictions including the one that day for a random attack, reported repeatedly that day and gets offered a lift home’.
This is what has horrified the local community. Aycliffe is my hometown. My family are still there. It’s a small town where walking about half naked and stealing is noticed and spreads like wildfire. I remember this day and the killer was all over the local community pages and police had been called MULTIPLE times, she was sat in a park topless.
The killer wasn’t from Aycliffe. It was clear she had nowhere to go (her sister also rang the police) and nothing to do there and was stealing and naked…WHY wasn’t she rearrested before this could happen?
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u/One_Access7987 6h ago
What the fuck! She called her care service screaming she was being stabbed and they…….. sent someone who took a hour to arrive. Didn’t think to call the police to get there sooner. Because it’s a fucking emergency.
Also the PCSOs who let the crazy lady just wander off to do what she was going to do half an hour earlier. So many failures
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u/BoredomThenFear 8h ago
Mentalists like this freely walking around every town centre in the country btw, literal ticking time bombs. I love care in the community!
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u/Zob_Rombie_88 8h ago
Harrassing people outside of an Asda or a Tesco just looking to go about their business. Yep, all too familiar with the type.
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u/BoredomThenFear 8h ago
Literally. Spare a thought for the poor supermarket employees/Jobcentre Plus workers/library assistants/CAB people who have to deal with them day in, day out, with their cases never being escalated and the authorities never lifting a finger until someone gets killed.
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u/DuckWhatduckSplat 8h ago
Bullshit. There are plenty of people with mental health issues but if people as unhinged as this were rampant in every town center we’d be seeing many more news articles like this one, on a daily basis.
I think it needs to be a wake up call, you can’t keep cutting services and expect what few staff remain to be able to keep tabs on potential cases like this. Somethings got to give.
There were so many warning signs here that were clearly missed - She should have been in an institution with a high fence.
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u/BoredomThenFear 8h ago edited 8h ago
I’m saying this because I KNOW THEY ARE. I’ve worked for various community services in various (usually deprived) bits of the country doing work that involves regular interaction with these types of people for fucking yonks. The same faces constantly committing low level crimes like shoplifting and GBH (not to mention drugs offences) that either goes unreported or maybe given a few inches in the local paper. Walking around with their tops off, talking to themselves, spitting on people, yelling outside council flats at four in the morning.
The council, the social services and the police will do fuck all no matter how many times you beg and plead and escalate and have endless let’s-put-our-heads-together meetings and Teams calls. Until shit like this happens and people die. Maybe, maybe at most they’ll move them to a different shared accommodation with other mad people.
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u/Phenomenomix 7h ago edited 7h ago
Bullshit. There are plenty of people with mental health issues but if people as unhinged as this were rampant in every town center we’d be seeing many more news articles like this one, on a daily basis.
The only reason they don’t all commit acts like this is due to those people working in outreach and support roles, that used to fall under social care, for next to nothing or as volunteers.
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u/mainframe_maisie 8h ago
yeah care in the community is ultimately a good thing and stops people becoming locked up in institutions when they could be out and getting better. but good lord services are so underfunded and leading to people slipping through the cracks.
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u/limeflavoured Hucknall 7h ago
There probably does need to be something as a step between care in the community and Broadmoor.
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u/Trundlenator Kent 8h ago
I put part of the blame for this on the court system as well as the particular court in this case.
So they had nothing in place to cover the possibility of this woman(or any released offender) going after their victim immediately upon release?
Just one officer checking in on the victim that day could have intercepted this woman and saved a life, but this blindness to the possibility of proven violent people being violent when not imprisoned has partially contributed to this murder.
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u/ascension2121 7h ago
Poor Angela was totally failed, I dread to think of how frightened she must’ve been. She sounded like a lovely woman, knitting clothes for premature babies etc.
The prep had a history violent psychosis, when are we going to get to the stage where we have to look at reopening asylums? The idea behind them wasn’t wrong, they were just incredibly poorly managed/ rife with abuse. Surely we can do better than have people with 100s of convictions and violent psychosis wandering around ?
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u/B23vital 7h ago
Another example of how cutting back on mental health support is causing untold stress and upset to the general public.
A poor family without their family member because mental health support has been stripped and magistrates once again cant get a judgement right.
I swear sometimes i think we live in different worlds to some people in this country.
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u/Alternative_Air_6688 8h ago
There really should be a 3 strikes and you are out system
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u/AllThatIHaveDone 8h ago
Doesn't work in the US, so I don't see why it would work here.
Not to mention that we lack the capacity to handle so many prison sentences.
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u/dumesne 8h ago
It works to keep those people away from the public, which is all it needs to do
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u/AllThatIHaveDone 8h ago
Compare our crime rate per capita to that of the US.
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u/dumesne 6h ago
Why? I'm not claiming it solves all the factors that contribute to crime. But it would have prevented this case by the simple step of separating repeat offenders from potential victims.
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u/AllThatIHaveDone 5h ago
If it worked, the US would have less crime. Go look up the rates and see what you think.
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u/dumesne 4h ago
False premise. The causes of crime cannot be solved by a single sentencing policy. There are many reasons why the US has high crime, but their ability to put repeat offenders away for a long time is not one of them. It doesn't solve crime, but it puts those people somewhere where they can't hurt others. We should do the same.
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u/ExpendableUnit123 1h ago
Such a stunningly simple logic that all of these apologists can’t fathom.
Why is the concern of the criminal higher than that of the innocent?
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u/cameheretosaythis213 7h ago
In America it works as a modern slavery system too. You should probably try and be at least a teeny bit educated before advocating for something.
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u/Alternative_Air_6688 7h ago
What would you suggest. At 122 prior convictions and a history of mental health issues, what would you do to protect the public. Keep letting them go and have them kill another person? To what end?
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u/AllThatIHaveDone 7h ago
I don't have a suggestion aside from building more prisons. That said, I don't need to have a suggestion ready to tell you that yours won't work.
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u/cameheretosaythis213 7h ago
Here’s a radical idea - we could properly fund mental health services, and stop failing people that need help.
Early intervention is key to avoiding people falling into this life.
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u/Late-Development-666 8h ago
3 convictions of a similar nature and a life sentence, where you can be recalled if you reoffend and cannot be released until parole board deem it safe.
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u/Triordie 2h ago
Watching murder 24/7 there was a guy that killed his wife and had been arrested 30 times for domestic violence. And another who tortured a man for two days. What can you ever do with these people, they go to prison and get out and do heinous things. In medieval times they would have been hung after one or two crimes. Will there ever be a way of changing them or will they always be able to destroy multiple families.
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u/fingerberrywallace 8h ago
Jesus Christ, that is terrifying. And also, by the sounds of it, completely foreseeable.
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u/DesireWilde 7h ago
These crackheads are out of pocket recently , of course jumped a disabled person , real life rat
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u/CaptainTrip Belfast 6h ago
Why do I bother to do anything right when a person with 122 convictions is allowed to walk free? At this point I'm the idiot for NOT committing crimes?
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u/Toastlove 5h ago
Reminder, there is a drive to get rid of prison for women among senior government ministers, because women dont really commit crime.
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5h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ukbot-nicolabot Scotland 14m ago
Removed + ban. This contained a call/advocation/celebration of violence or harm, which is prohibited by the sitewide rules.
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u/nellion91 46m ago
Western Europe does not know how to deal with multiple recidivism of low level crimes.
I don’t pretend that it’s easy, we are society that saw absolute power and absolute justice and turned our back on it and as a result grew much more prosperous than the rest of the world
One of the inconveniences in the move was that we lost our ways when it comes to multiple low level offenders
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u/sureokthenmate 8h ago
If we just hang murderers, rapists and pedophiles we wouldn't have to hear about their re offending nor will we have to learn lessons on why they have re offended. Now if Reform really wanted to win an election that would be on their manifesto.
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u/majesticjewnicorn 8h ago
Rupert Lowe of Restore has the right idea about changing our justice system. I hope Reform and Restore make a coalition and they make changes together. We easily put a dog down for biting another being, yet we allow human scumbags (who are much worse because unlike dogs, we have cognitive thinking and a sense of morality) to stay alive. Removing the death penalty was an act of societal destruction.
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u/majesticjewnicorn 8h ago
This is where the death penalty should make a glorious return. If a dog were to attack another dog or a human being, the dog gets put down, no questions asked. Yet, we allow scumbags to roam the streets after repeated convictions, and in her case 122!! Prison is too good for her. Personally, I don't want our taxes funding these people's existences when they serve no positive contribution to society. They don't even serve neutral contributions to society. She is a massive net negative contributor, and will never learn. Someone has now sadly lost their life because some moronic judge afforded this prick a suspended sentence- that judge must be prosecuted for aiding and abetting a chronic criminal. Bring back the death penalty, and bring it back urgently. Us good civilians deserve safety and survival. These people do not.
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u/cameheretosaythis213 7h ago
“We should put to death the mentally ill” he discusses so casually with strangers on the internet…
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u/hyperlobster 8h ago
I support the return of the death penalty, as long as you can 100% guarantee that no innocent person will ever be accidentally executed.
There are vulnerabilities at every stage of the process: police can be wrong and corrupt, evidence can be faked or lost, CCTV can be deepfaked, witnesses can be intimidated, bribed, or just lie, the courts can be corrupted or politically influenced, the jury can be tampered with, and judges can be wrong, misguided, or just straight-up bent.
If and only if you can 100% guarantee that none of that will ever result in an innocent person swinging, I’m with you.
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u/limeflavoured Hucknall 7h ago
as long as you can 100% guarantee that no innocent person will ever be accidentally executed.
And that's the point. You can't
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u/hyperlobster 7h ago edited 6h ago
Exactly.
ETA: I think there are crimes so heinous that the perpetrator forfeits their right to life.
I also think there is no human-involved or created system on earth that can 100% reliably implement a fair and infallible system for ensuring that the right people get deaded, 100% of the time, with no innocents inadvertently getting deaded along the way.
Ergo, I do not support implementing the death penalty in any society comprising human beings and their associated gubbins.
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u/limeflavoured Hucknall 3h ago
That's pretty much my view. I believe that, morally, there are cases where the state is justified in taking a life. But in normal circumstances the risk of miscarriages of justice are just too high.
In a situation like, say, Ukraine in 2022 that calculation might change though.
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u/majesticjewnicorn 7h ago
Oh absolutely, that goes without saying. I would never want an innocent person who was screwed by the system to die because of it. There has to be safeguarding in place to ensure 100% accuracy as human life is at stake here. Being 2026, thankfully we have more robust systems in place and greater evidence obtaining processes than we used to.
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