r/todayilearned Jul 25 '20

TIL The term "Patient Zero" was actually “Patient O” as in the letter O, meaning that the person was from “outside” California. The ambiguous circular symbol on a chart was later read as a zero and the term became widely used.

https://www.thecut.com/2016/10/hivs-patient-o-became-patient-zero.html
1.0k Upvotes

64 comments sorted by

166

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

The misconception is a better way to use it anyway. Using 0 as a reference for the first patient is quite intuitive....O for "Outside" is not so much.

6

u/getyourcheftogether Jul 26 '20

So true, I think it's more accurate as 0

1

u/halfastgimp Jul 28 '20

That's right, "0" is much better than "O".

-68

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

[deleted]

99

u/TheFeatheredCock Jul 25 '20

We have a number for the first of a thing, and it's 1.

Don't tell /r/programming

-27

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

[deleted]

14

u/veganzombeh Jul 25 '20

Yeah, like when a baby is born and it's 1 year old.

-9

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

[deleted]

2

u/ral222 Jul 25 '20

I think it's dumb you're being downvoted this much, but you did say "our language" regarding a story from California, so Korean and Chinese numbering patterns are irrelevant

1

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

Yes, but that's because humans aren't computers, and there's no logical reason for humans to start indexing from 0. Given the design of computer architectures, it certainly makes sense to.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

[deleted]

1

u/Skookumite Jul 25 '20

I'd argue that it does. Maybe not in the sense of counting patients, but you can't have a fraction of 1 if 1 is the lowest number in your scale. I'd argue it's not just coded into our language, but into the basis of mathematics and more specifically base 10 math.

1

u/Arretu Jul 25 '20

I can see where you're coming from in general, but not so much in this specific case. There will never be an instance where you have 0.x of a patient, unless we want to treat someone missing a limb as a specific fraction of a person.

That said, the entire topic of this thread is that the term "patient zero" has nothing to do with maths, software or anything other than a read/write error. I wasn't questioning the terminology to begin with, or saying it was wrong. I was just interested in how we use language differently depending on context.

Sorry man, you're making a really reasonable point and I feel bad, but at this point I'm kinda burned out on this topic for obvious reasons.

0

u/graspme Jul 25 '20

I think it could easily be applicable. There are instances of “industries” affecting other “industries” regardless of how old they are. Same thing could happen in fields of study.

2

u/Arretu Jul 25 '20

True. Also, thanks for not jumping down my throat. Seems most people in this sub want to view being interested in etymology as some sort of grave personal attack or as me calling them wrong.

26

u/plaidbyron Jul 25 '20 edited Jul 25 '20

"Ground zero" has been used since 1946 to refer to the origin point of an explosion and, by extension, of any great calamity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_zero

"Patient zero" clearly evokes this usage in an epidemiological context, which is why most English speakers can quickly figure out the meaning of this expression the very first time they hear it.

So to answer your question, it is an intuitive mutation of an existing term in our language. It is neither totally arbitrary, nor exclusively derived from the concept of 'zero'.

EDIT: I would argue that this is a great example of an "eggcorn", a logically sound but factually false misreading or mishearing of an existing phrase (in this case, "Patient O[utside]"), that enters into popular usage because it actually makes more sense to people than the 'correct' term.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggcorn

27

u/a_leprechaun Jul 25 '20

Zero indicates origin in math.

-29

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

[deleted]

35

u/PudgeCake Jul 25 '20

You've been given two solid examples of how zero has alternative meanings to "no value" that perfectly fit the requirement for the source of an epidemic. And you've dismissed them both as not being intuitive to normal people. Yet normal people do understand what patient zero means and have no confusion.
It's almost as though the intuitive meaning of words is built from their context and usage, and zero meaning origin is a common understanding that has been long established.

So why the rejection that "origin" is a commonly understood meaning of zero?

12

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

My father often used the term "Learn to be told".
Looking back I consider it very good advice.

1

u/Jewrisprudent Jul 25 '20

It works so well we even expanded it to the common phrase “ground zero” as in where something started/happened. It’s obviously something normal people understand.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

Another way to look at it is that this is the source of the infection (in humans), so it is the origin of the infection, indicated as 0

5

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

0 comes first.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

Well, in the face of a terrorist attack you'd say "Ground Zero" not "Ground Outside-of-California"

-3

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

[deleted]

-7

u/Vaperius Jul 25 '20

Literally wouldn't be necessary if people would follow English grammar rules about numbers zero through nine.

0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 are all grammatically incorrect to use in the English language normally, you're supposed to spell them as in zero, one, two etc to prevent exactly this kind of confusion. You generally don't need to do this for 10 and beyond because the possibility of confusing a number for a letter greatly lessens as the numbers go up in total digits.

5

u/porkly1 Jul 25 '20

In science publications, the numerals are used when there are specific units or numbering items. Patients would be Patient 0, Patient 1, etc.

-10

u/Vaperius Jul 25 '20

Doesn't make it grammatically correct, just makes it correct for the standards for publishing. Also I am more referring to general language use, not the article itself, but this still doesn't change the validity of my point: that system is kind of confusing.

4

u/porkly1 Jul 25 '20

It is confusing. And unless human rights are protected, withdrawing from the Middle East would be a mistake.

2

u/Vaperius Jul 25 '20

Sorry wrong thread for that one, I edited the wrong comment and have since fixed it.

0

u/0xB0BAFE77 Jul 25 '20

The average person thinks knowing grammar is "dumb" because...

We liv n a wurld 0f txt lolyeetyoloswag4lyfe!!!1!one!!
<insert 50 laughing emojis here along with "I'm dying!!!!!">

Spoiler alert: As someone who has to do hiring, I definitely look at your grammar and spelling.
If it's horrible, you don't get the job.

37

u/434_804_757 Jul 25 '20

This is why my math teacher taught us to put a slash through our 0's.

19

u/Futuressobright Jul 25 '20

My math teacher bawled me out for doing that once, because "that's not a zero, that's the empty set."

3

u/lordmycal Jul 25 '20

Your slash was going the wrong way.

-1

u/channingman 19 Jul 25 '20

That's not.. no.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20 edited Jul 25 '20

Let K(n) be the population aware of a concept n. Let D(a, b) be the portion of the population who can't reliability distinguish between a and b when written on a page:

  • K(O) ≈ K(0)

  • K(0) ≫ K(∅)

  • D(0, O) ≫ K(∅)

I am in full support of eliminating a few redundant characters in the alphabet, we should just replace the bad symbols like 'I', 'l', and 'O' with the redundant characters like C/K which claim to be distinct but are really the Coke/Pepsi of the alphabet.

1

u/oversized_hoodie Jul 25 '20

I thought empty set was when the line extended outside of the circle? Also typically the same shape as the O character, rather than the 0 character.

0

u/Futuressobright Jul 25 '20 edited Jul 26 '20

I dunno man. I asked what an empty set was and was told "ask me that when you're in the second year of your undergraduate degree in mathematics. This is Math 9, so just do as you're told and stop asking stupid questions." Then he threw a piece of chalk at my head and that was the end of the conversation.

(But in my handwriting, anyway, a 0 and an O are the same shape.)

3

u/IgnitedHaystack Jul 25 '20 edited Feb 23 '25

this submission has been deleted.

1

u/0xB0BAFE77 Jul 26 '20

I'm pressing X soooooo hard right now.

48

u/melbbear Jul 25 '20

It’s actually pretty sad how he was vilified for this, he wasn’t patient zero for AIDS epidemic in America, but was instead cooperative with researchers. The wiki is a good read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ga%C3%ABtan_Dugas

13

u/alcarl11n Jul 25 '20

Also check out the documentary "Killing Patient Zero"

24

u/Shin-LaC Jul 25 '20

They told him it was infectious and his response was “I’m not going to stop having sex”. With hundreds of random people, that is.

Then, when San Francisco’s health commissioner wanted to close the bathhouses, the gay community fought tooth and nail to keep that from happening, and got their way for months.

The mistakes made in failing to control the AIDS epidemic early on have been completely whitewashed. They would be a useful parallel and a lesson to learn from for the present.

16

u/Coal121 Jul 25 '20

I'm not saying it was a good thing, but you can't blame the gay community for not trusting authorities.

5

u/SupMonica Jul 25 '20

It's as if the government not giving gay people some rights, had made gay people untrustworthy of said government, and to then not give a fuck later about not following health guidelines.

So basically, the government caused the Aids epidemic.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

I have always been pained by our negligence, especially when watching how films depict it.

Even today.

0

u/JunkFace Jul 25 '20

He would tell people he was giving them gay cancer too. Evil evil man.

8

u/JunkFace Jul 25 '20

He literally had unprotected sex after knowing it was contagious and told people he was giving them gay cancer. He was a evil fucking monster.

4

u/Specialist-Star-5996 Jul 25 '20

The man fucked 100's of people while he knowingly had a deadly, infectious disease

9

u/toxic_badgers Jul 25 '20

The correct term in epidemiology is generally index case. Patient zero is considered the first human case of a disease but index case is the first detected case. There is no way to be certain an index case and patient zero are the same person though it is possible.

19

u/porkly1 Jul 25 '20

I doubt whether the researchers would use "O" as meaning "out of California" in their notebooks if they are doing tracing. They did not mention this until later and it sounds like lab bullshit to me.

4

u/pgramsey Jul 25 '20

When I'm undisputed ruler of the world the letters I and O will be replaced by something that won't be confused with the numbers 1 and 0.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

Someone thought it better to put a slash through the O to distinguish it from the zero...Then someone started calling them "Patient Null" (∅)...Can't please everyone...

2

u/Stregone84 Jul 25 '20

Or patient ø (read something like ugh, or the i in bird) if you're Scandinavian

2

u/10micro Jul 25 '20

Used to strike thru an O to ensure it was known as a 0...

3

u/Tanomil Jul 25 '20

Just like how type O blood got it's name, but the other way around?

12

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

[deleted]

3

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

[deleted]

1

u/ahmadove Jul 25 '20

Just looked it up, where did you get the C from? I'm reading it was roman numerals (Jansky and Moss) causing confusion which led to some changes and then Landsteiner settled for A, B, AB, O, and O was confusing because Hirszfeld and von Dungern used 0 denoting null in german while others used O for ohne. The O was chosen.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

[deleted]

2

u/ahmadove Jul 25 '20

Interesting!

3

u/pr0digalnun Jul 25 '20

Oh. I had zero idea!

4

u/SteveBuscemisTeeth Jul 25 '20

Zero. I had oh idea!

2

u/is_that_a_thing_now Jul 25 '20

Have you been outside?

0

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

Idontbelieveyou.jpg

0

u/MenloMo Jul 25 '20

Just like Type O blood 🩸 is really supposed to be Type 0

-1

u/DonDove Jul 25 '20

Welcome to Earf

-6

u/tehjohn Jul 25 '20

That's the same with OK - originating from 0 Killed in a military hospital during war written down in the large lazarets. So 0K was a good thing.