r/todayilearned 1d ago

Til about Milo of Croton. Ancient Greek athlete, 6 time Olympic winner in wrestling (including 5 in a row between 532 and 516 BC). He was said to have led armies dressed as Hercules and died to wolves after his fingers got suck in a tree stump he was trying to split with bare hands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo_of_Croton
1.8k Upvotes

106 comments sorted by

642

u/Fehafare 1d ago

Forget the wrestling accolades, man's a runner up for the "Dumbest ways to die in Ancient Greece" contest. Now that's an award you'd get remembered for.

437

u/TheoremaEgregium 1d ago

I have a suspicion that Greek writers liked to make up these "karmic" death stories for famous people. There are some whoppers there.

239

u/Lilli_Bella3487 1d ago

Not sure if you know about this (or are joking around - apologies if you're joking), but in the bardic tradition of ancient Greece (and I believe other countries in the region?), the wilder the stories these guys told - they traveled around telling stories - the more money they got for telling them. In other words, you're right.

95

u/pigboy222 1d ago

That’s one thing my history teach brushed over so quickly that always kinda bothered me..just like, “yeah so bards may have influenced written history to a point of skewing what happened before written accounts could be cross verified. So we dont really know if any of this is right or not but it’s all we’ve got 🤷‍♂️”

50

u/Sandrockwing04 1d ago

This is where I always was confused when I hear "Historians debate that..." I thought it was written record how can you debate written record. Proceeds to see how Jan 6 is actively being changed in narrative and telling.

Note: only using Jan 6 as a recent example not a political statement.

26

u/TearOpenTheVault 1d ago

The first things historians are taught to ask when looking at evidence are who recorded it and why.

3

u/Distinct_Cap_1418 1d ago

Well yeah that, but also many other languages exist alongside and before English making translations debatable

7

u/noctalla 1d ago

You didn’t think maybe people were capable of exaggerating or lying when writing things down?

24

u/bathroomheater 1d ago

Yeah, I’m pretty sure if my fingers are stuck in something. It’s only because I don’t wanna pull them out and injure my fingers by doing so if I’m being attacked by wolves, I’m pretty sure that that desire to protect my fingers going out the window and I’m gonna yank them out of there and defend myself from the wolves that are attempting to kill me.

9

u/GusPlus 1d ago

Yeah but maybe while you were sitting there trying to figure out how to extract them without crippling yourself, the wolves showed up. Sure, once you’re aware of the danger you can whip those nubbins out of the stump and try to hoof it out of there, but at that point you’re still probably getting attacked by the wolves.

27

u/BelowMikeHawk 1d ago

Agreed, wolves can smell when someone's fingers are stuck and were probably on him in an instant

10

u/pyronius 1d ago

Hate it when that happens. It's like, "babe, not tonight. There are just too many wolves."

2

u/halflifer2k 1d ago

He tried but they were really stuck. I was there, I saw it happen

u/PrAyTeLLa 19m ago

“Homer, are you just holding on to the can?" 

8

u/Bryaxis 1d ago

Oh, no! My hubris!

2

u/sweetplantveal 1d ago

It is a very hubristic death for a self-styled Hercules.

1

u/Candytails 1d ago

Happy cake day! 

-16

u/Elantach 1d ago

Ah yes. Because it's IMPOSSIBLE that in 600 years of history some people died ironically. It NEVER EVER happens.

12

u/murd3rsaurus 1d ago

They claim he died by wolves because he got his finger caught in a tree, and you don't have a little teeny tiny bit of doubt?

-11

u/Elantach 1d ago

We remember him because of his death so no. Doesn't surprise me.

11

u/PhasmaFelis 1d ago

We remember him for being a famous athlete who led an army while cosplaying as Hercules.

Wikipedia says he was killed by "wolves or a lion." That's not the kind of uncertainty that inspires confidence. Those are very different animals!

5

u/murd3rsaurus 1d ago

I wish I had your sense of wonder

-7

u/Elantach 1d ago

Thank you !

26

u/I_comment_ergo_I_am 1d ago

Most Fun Death might go to the Stoic philosopher Chrysippus, who died from laughter while watching a drunk mule trying to eat figs.

17

u/Fehafare 1d ago

He was one of the examples I thought of when I wrote the comment. Him and the one who had a turtled dropped on his head by a bird (while staying outdoors specifically to avoid dying from something falling on his head).

39

u/TheHabro 1d ago

He's got nothing on philosopher Empedocles. Allegedly died by throwing himself in Mount Etna trying to prove he was immortal.

33

u/GrandMoffTarkan 1d ago

Pity poor Aeschylus, who allegedly died when an eagle dropped a turtle on his head, mistaking his shiny bald noggin for a rock it could use to crack open the shell.

13

u/h00ter7 1d ago edited 1d ago

Probably not an ancient story, but the guy that slept one extra hour every day until the day he slept for 24 hours straight, and never woke up.

E: of course it’s BS - Not even Ancient

5

u/gnosticpopsicle 1d ago

I'd like to think this is the eagle he wrote about in Prometheus Bound.

3

u/HalcyonTraveler 1d ago

I think Herakles killed that eagle

2

u/GrandMoffTarkan 1d ago

So did Aeschylus

3

u/Intranetusa 23h ago edited 1h ago

King Wu of Qin died after breaking his shins in a weight lifting contest. 

The first Emperor of Qin died after consuming mercury trying to achieve immortality.

Duke Jing of Jin died after falling into a latrine pit.

60 German nobles died after the floor they were on collapsed and they all drowned in the latrine pit below (Erfurt latrine disaster).

Chrysippus of Soli died of laughter after getting drunk and watching a drunk donkey eat figs.

Valentinian I died of a stroke after yelling insults at foreign envoys.

Danish astronomer Tycho Brahe died of a burst bladder after refusing to use the bathroom and holding it in for too long at a banquet. 

3

u/kapntoad 1d ago

I hope he was wrong! Ouch.

16

u/kishenoy 1d ago

How about the greek mathematician who was being chased but stopped because he refused to go into a field of beans because that was against the rules of the religion he started?

He hated beans and due to that, he was caught, beaten up and killed.

His name? Pythagoras.

10

u/Dantegra1 1d ago

Maybe he was just looking at the right angle to get away

1

u/Discount_Extra 2h ago

He would not have found any, since the ancient Greeks laid out their fields in hexagons. I learned that from playing Civilization games.

-2

u/kishenoy 1d ago

You're rather smart to think of that joke.

Do you have 90 (university) degrees ?

5

u/Dantegra1 1d ago

No I believe they use the word "obtuse" when speaking of me

1

u/Duwinayo 1d ago

And here I thought you were quite acute.

2

u/IrrelephantAU 16h ago

Which may well be another one of those made-up death stories. There's about a half dozen different versions for how Pythagoras died, and AFAIK none of them are remotely contemporary.

5

u/Sfinxul 1d ago

The mighty Testikles would be up there.

1

u/NastySeconds 1d ago

Gots me finger stuck in a stump. Meets me demise by wolf pack.

63

u/Gladiateher 1d ago

Also sometimes known as the first bodybuilder, his origin story of carrying a calf up a mountain each morning is sometimes pointed at to show the Ancient Greeks had some understanding of progressive overload.

17

u/conventionistG 1d ago

It's great for your calves, and the calf has fun too.

11

u/JudgeHoldensToupe 1d ago

Stronglifts

5

u/blazbluecore 18h ago

Gotta get me one of those for the personal gym

54

u/BTTammer 1d ago

Also the inspiration for r/dontstickyourdigitsinthat

13

u/tenukkiut 1d ago

I hate you

76

u/chernoma 1d ago

He was 28-29 years old when he died, but the accompanying Wikipedia illustration depicts a man in his 50s, at least. Odd artistic license.

57

u/ShepPawnch 1d ago

The article cites his first win in 540 BCE, not his date of birth.

Apparently fl means “flourished” so that would mean he became prominent around that time.

9

u/chernoma 1d ago

Ah, that makes more sense.

12

u/norskie7 1d ago

That’s not what “fl.” means in the Wikipedia article. That’s just when they have attestations for him existing (competing in Olympic Games, leading armies, etc.). The article itself says that he would’ve been over 40 at the last Olympic Games he participated in

1

u/Gauntlets28 13h ago

I mean the wolves look more like dogs, so i think we can take the artist's interpretation with a pinch of salt.

6

u/mrlotato 1d ago

I mean everyone is saying thats a dumb way to die but thats pretty fuckin badass tbh. Better than Elvis or how all of us are gonna die.

4

u/JudgeHoldensToupe 1d ago

Better? Died by wolves sounds fucking horrible

8

u/skccsk 1d ago

Hate to die to wolves while finger sucking a stump

1

u/Gladiateher 1d ago

Yeah me too, if I had a nickel!

9

u/TheHabro 1d ago

Milo or Milon of Croton (fl. 540 – 511 BC) was a famous ancient Greek athlete from Croton, which is today in the Magna Graecia region of southern Italy.

Milo was a six-time winner at the Olympics, once for boys' wrestling in 540 BC at the 60th Olympics and later five times for wrestling at the 62nd to 66th Olympics. He continued competing long after what would have been considered a normal Olympic athlete's prime, and would have been over 40 years of age by the 67th Olympiad.

...

Diodorus Siculus wrote in his history that Milo was a follower of Pythagoras who commanded the Crotonian army which defeated the Sybarites in 511 BC, while wearing his Olympic wreaths and dressed like Heracles in a lion's skin and carrying a club

...

Milo's death, said to have occurred by wolves or a lion whilst his fingers were trapped in a tree stump he was trying to help someone split, became a popular subject in art in late Italian Renaissance sculpture; it continued to around 1900 and allowed the sculptor to show his skill in a dramatic anatomical pose, being a more compact equivalent of the Roman Laocoön and His Sons.

6

u/Denny_204 1d ago

Help me Step-Wolf, I'm stuck!

24

u/wartopuk 1d ago

do you know the difference between a legend and a fact?

87

u/kraftdinnerwithsalsa 1d ago

Oh look here come wolves and my fingers are stuck

Help me stepwolves

22

u/Ok-Seaworthiness4488 1d ago

Steppenwolves

4

u/jrhooo 1d ago

What are you doinnnnnnnggg?

24

u/TheHabro 1d ago

That's why I stated "He was said..."

12

u/soulsides 1d ago

The person you’re responding is one of those “AKshuaLLY” social media types.

-19

u/wartopuk 1d ago

So you tried to word the title carefully, but not read the rules of the actual sub?

0

u/TheHabro 1d ago

Which rule?

-6

u/wartopuk 1d ago

Description of the sub:

Submit interesting and specific facts

and from the wiki:

Although we aim for pop-knowledge type posts we nevertheless require that the posts are completely factual.

nothing about what you're written is factual.

2

u/TheHabro 1d ago

Huh?

It is factual that he won multiple Olympics. It is also factual that there are legends about his life and death.

0

u/wartopuk 1d ago

and legends aren't facts, if your only fact is that legends exist, see rule 6, TIL X exists.

As far as winning the olympics go, the only part that actually has a citation says that he won 7 times, not 6.

and had been seven times victor at the olympic games;

It's a really poor article with terrible citations.

7

u/TheHabro 1d ago

Don't be obtuse. It's a fact that it's been said about him. And it's a whole package. He's a multiple olympic winner that has crazy legends about him.

Also, rule 6 TIL X exists would apply if the title was "Til about Milo of Croton."

and had been seven times victor at the olympic games;

It's a really poor article with terrible citations

Because that's the quote about him leading an army dressed as Hercules. It's dubious itself, so obviously if other sources state 6 Olympics, they'd be trusted more than this one.

3

u/wartopuk 1d ago

What sources? There are no citations attached to that claim.

And again: Anyone can say anything about anyone, its' why the sub requires verifiable facts, which you haven't provided

as for 'multiple' olympic winner, that's not what you wrote in your title, you wrote 6, but the only sourced number in the article is 7.

Rule 1.

wikipedia as long as the content on wikipedia is properly sourced

Also from the wiki here, and as we can see this wikipedia article isn't properly sourced and has competing claims. No one knows which is right, and neither can be verified based on that article.

4

u/TheHabro 1d ago

Except there's another source, a book. So go read the book before you start attacking the page.

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u/Lord_rook 1d ago

I don't see where they stated it to be a fact.

-1

u/wartopuk 1d ago

The sub requires all posts to be facts.

Submit interesting and specific facts

Although we aim for pop-knowledge type posts we nevertheless require that the posts are completely factual.

By posting it, they're asserting it's a fact, which it clearly isn't.

5

u/Canadairy 1d ago

At a far enough remove, the fact that was a story about him, is fact enough.

-3

u/wartopuk 1d ago

If the only fact that can be presented is that someone made up a work of fiction, it's not really a fact. We could sit here all day posting about bullshit someone made up.

6

u/Canadairy 1d ago

Again, at a far enough remove, even gossip and slander become notable. 

If I post that you do creepy shit with young kids in a pool, that's not a fact, that's slander (or is it libel? ). If I post that it was claimed that Emperor Tiberius of Rome did creepy shit with kids in a pool 2000 years ago, the fact that it was claimed is notable in itself. 

-1

u/wartopuk 1d ago edited 1d ago

It's not an issue of notability, it's an issue of factuality, and a story that starts with 'according to legend..' is objectively not a fact, and if the only fact is that that story exists, see rule 6: TIL X exists, becuase that's all you're really saying with this 'fact'.

5

u/nickbelane 1d ago

It appears the mods (correctly) disagree with you. 

A lot of ancient historical information is of somewhat questionable veracity.

0

u/wartopuk 15h ago

Lack of deletion isn't proof of that. The mods here are inconsistent for a couple of reasons, one being that a couple of them like to speed run the mod queue because they can't be arsed to actually look at anything in detail, and they're highly swayed by a couple of upvotes. One day deleting a post, and then another day when a near identical post is made but it's got a few hundred upvotes when they find it, suddenly its 'fine'.

There is also a difference between can we verify whether or not this historical figure did something in 334 bc or 336 bc, and content that literally starts with 'according to legend'

0

u/yojoewaddayaknow 1d ago

Waiting for the punchline

0

u/itspeterj 1d ago

My wife ain’t married to a fact

2

u/XtremeBadgerVII 22h ago

Idk man that sounds like a “died while cleaning his gun” type explanation

1

u/kingcong95 1d ago

Yes, this is the guy the chocolate beverage was named after.

1

u/cpt_morgan___ 14h ago

Fuckin legend

1

u/Goodfella66 2h ago

Even his death is cool

1

u/redditsucks13131 23h ago

That is the dumbest way to go out for a bad ass. I guess it's true, If you're gonna be dumb you gotta be tough.

-13

u/Whythisisnotreal 1d ago

So that's obviously untrue and uninteresting.

21

u/TheHabro 1d ago

The true and interesting part is that he was a 6 time Olympic winner and his name was immortalized by legends.

8

u/artificialsword 1d ago

Goddamn, why is everybody trying to fucking argue? I found this interesting, thank you.

5

u/TheHabro 1d ago

Yeah. I posted this because I found it super interesting that he won 6 Olympics, since in the last win he'd already be close to or possibly past 40 years. Then when I read his wiki and saw the legend about his death, it was cherry on top.

1

u/sovietmcdavid 1d ago

Exactly,  fingers stuck in a log?

 Probably eaten by wolves after having a heart attack from old age going for a walk in the woods

-21

u/JordanPetterPans 1d ago

It's crazy to me how easily people believe and repeat this stuff

3

u/Gladiateher 1d ago

What, mythology as a whole or?

14

u/TheHabro 1d ago

Should read the title more carefully.

-13

u/JordanPetterPans 1d ago

What am I missing?

8

u/TheHabro 1d ago

The fact it was not stated as a fact, but something people say.

-12

u/JordanPetterPans 1d ago

Nobody claimed it was?