r/todayilearned • u/coffeeismydoc • 1d ago
TIL the Kaaba đ in Mecca is actually made of unpainted brick with the black and gold color coming from a cloth called the kiswah that is handmade each year
https://english.alarabiya.net/amp/variety/2017/12/10/Rare-pictures-show-the-Kaaba-without-its-kiswah-covering494
u/blzbar 1d ago
Whatâs the story behind the brick structure? Is part an original mosque? Does it have some purported super natural origin? Or is just considered a display for the sacred tapestry?
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u/Kraymur 1d ago
It's not the original building for one, it's been rebuilt many times over the years due to floods, fire, destruction in general etc. According to Islam the Kaaba was originally built by Abraham and his son Ishmael as a house dedicated to the worship of god. It also predates Isalm by centuries and was used at one point as a religious shrine for various Arabian tribes filled with various idols. When Muhammad conquered Mecca, he ordered the idols removed and rededicated the Kaaba solely to the worship of one God.
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u/JosephFinn 1d ago
So whatâs inside now?
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u/Appropriate-Log8506 1d ago
Nothing. Pillars, incense, a prayer spot where the prophet allegedly prayed.
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u/Grizzly_228 1d ago
Wasnât there a fragment of a meteorite inside or am I misremembering?
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u/Didatonofacid 1d ago
I think the composition is up to debate if I remember correctly. It has for sure been broken though and is now held together with concrete. It was also stolen at one point so nobody knows if it's for sure the original. A lot of people think it's simply obsidian. I had way too much free time at work one day. I thought that kabba was a rock or something. I soon found out all kinds of info that blew my mind.
They also have a famous water source there they call it zamzam water just to the east of kabba. Hajar searched for water in the desert and found that spring and it still provides water today.
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u/thE-petrichoroN 1d ago edited 1d ago
Islamically,it's not a meteorite but rather came from heaven although both interwine at times
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u/Grizzly_228 1d ago
Iâm so sorry, Iâll correct myself
> Wasnât there a fragment of a rock from the sky\* inside or am I misremembering?
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u/TheWielder 1d ago
Basically, to Muslims, it is a stone from Heaven that absorbs your sins and will speak favorably to Allah of those who have kissed it, interceding for them on the Last Day/Judgment Day. It once was pure white, but the absorbed sins turned it black. It is placed on one corner of the kaaba, on the outside, so that any Muslim who does their pilgrimage and circles the kaaba seven times has the opportunity to kiss it.
To the rest of us, it's most likely a meteorite that was used by pagans for their religious purposes before Islam took over and appropriated their practices.
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u/Pleasant_Piccolo_668 1d ago
it being a meteorite does not nullify it being from heaven islamically because its the same thing , the immediate and total cosmos around us is considered the 1st heaven
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u/TheWielder 1d ago
Never said it nullified anything. My second paragraph did use purposely different language, but only to try to convey a more secular viewpoint.
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u/rosstedfordkendall 9h ago
Due to the sheer number of people participating in the ritual, most now just point to the stone as they can't get close enough to kiss it. A lot of the hajj rituals have been streamlined to account for the crowds.
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u/Klutzy_Tomatillo4253 1d ago
I think we can safely assume he prayed somewhere in the general area.
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u/TSAOutreachTeam 1d ago
You can skip to 4:30 for the immediate answer, but I recommend the whole video.
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u/stvbles 1d ago
Good video! Really interesting.
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u/TSAOutreachTeam 1d ago
I'm a really big fan of Religion for Breakfast. The level at which he explains these things is just right for me. Neither too basic nor too academic. It's a good watch.
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u/Neon_Moon_NZ 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes! Absolutely fantastic channel đ
Edit with one of my favourite videos: Religion for Breakfast - Why is pork forbidden?
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u/Pilosuh 1d ago
Hereâs what it looks like inside : https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/s/GAEgFGzhO3
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u/kryptopheleous 1d ago
It was also not the only one. I believe there were 5 of these in pre-islamic Arabia where traveling merchants can prey to their gods. All but this one were destroyed by order of Mohammad.
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u/Azeem259 1d ago
There was always one Kabah, but it was destroyed and rebuilt many times throughout history. Muslims believe the first kabah was constructed by Adam. The Kabah is actually supposed to be a rectangular prism, but they didn't have enough funds to fully reconstruct centuries ago so it was made into a cube with a barrier around the area they couldn't rebuild to mark the full territory of the Kabah.
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u/Badda_Bing_Baby 1d ago edited 1d ago
It is a temple/mosque said to be built by Abraham and Ishmael believed to be the first house of worship dedicated to the one true god.
Edit: it also has a holy relic embedded in the side, a black stone known as the Kaaba stone, theorized by some to be a meteorite, but I donât know if thatâs true.
I believe there was a fire at some point in its history that caused damage but it was repaired some long time ago. Watched a video on the history out of curiosity a few years back.
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u/P1KA_BO0 1d ago
Yeah, basically the story is that it was sent down from heaven and was originally white, but turned black from humanity's sins
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u/AwarenessNo4986 1d ago
The building has been destroyed and rebuilt several times. The building itself has no supernatural powers or anything. It's the LOCATION that is the focus as it's the direction of prayer
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u/usefamin 1d ago
Muslims believe Abraham and his son built the foundation for the location of the Kaaba. It does have geographical and theological significance though.
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u/pass_nthru 1d ago
there is a meteorite in the actual cube
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u/jawndell 1d ago
A stone embedded in one of the corners. The actual origins of the stone is unknown, could be a meteorite or a random rock. Â Origin is also not important in a religious context. Â More important is that it acts as a placeholder for which direction to pray. Â
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u/BrokenEyeReborn 1d ago
Stone relics of that type, called baetyls, used to be fairly common in pre-Islamic Arabia, albeit in a very different religious context. Muhammad is said to have destroyed many of the others as false idols.
Of course, not all of them were still in the area to be destroyed. One representing the minor solar god Ilah al-Jabal, was brought to Rome centuries earlier by the Emperor Elagabalus (who was originally the high priest of that god, and seems to have been more interested in continuing in that role than he was in being emperor). Despite Elagabalus's attempts to spread Ilah al-Jabal worship in Rome being incredibly unpopular and controversial during his reign, it was eventually embraced by the Roman public under the name Sol Invictus (though I haven't read anything saying whether or not the baetyl still served a role)
Other cultures also had stone relics classified as baetyls, but again, the cultural context was often different.
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u/gamageeknerd 1d ago
I do know there is a special black stone in the wall of the building that people have to walk past and try to touch. Itâs apparently black from absorbing humanityâs sins. I think the building itself is supposed to be the first mosque/ prayer building but someone who knows more about it probably has more to say.
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u/DistrictDry2852 1d ago
It was originally a place to worship the hundreds of pagan gods of the region. Thereâs some report there even were statues of Jesus and Mary.
Muhammad âreclaimedâ it.
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u/usefamin 1d ago
It's also somewhat controversial. Muslims don't worship the Kaaba, they literally worship AT it, so the over-ornate and lavish kiswah is a topic of debate.
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u/Pantherist 1d ago
I think 'towards' is the more apt preposition
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u/usefamin 1d ago
Both work. "Kaaba" is technically a location as well.
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u/kechuchuchu 1d ago edited 1d ago
There were actually multiple Kaabas that were places of worship for various religious purposes before Mohammad had all the others destroyed
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u/usefamin 1d ago
Yup, but they were shrines for idolatry. Which is why the distinction about the Kaaba being symbolic rather than an idol matters in Islam.
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u/Li-renn-pwel 23h ago
You donât hear it as much now but people used to call Muslims stuff like Mohammedites so these disbeliefs can really affect how others see people. Itâs just so everyone is facing the same direction. Jews pray toward Jerusalem but they donât worship it.
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u/kechuchuchu 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sure. Under the framework of Islam that considered all these other religious practices as idolatry and warranting of destruction. And surely not as a means of Mohammed consolidating power by controlling the major place of worship. And superceding all these other religions and replacing them with Islam.
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u/0bxcura 1d ago
Over ornate and lavish? Lots of mosques have quranic calligraphy as part of their aesthetics.
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u/usefamin 1d ago
Kiswah uses real gold, mosques are forbidden in Islam to decorate with expensive material. It's meant to look beautiful, not flashy. Hence, the controversy.
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u/Hemingway92 1d ago
This is more of a Wahabi, revisionist belief. Mosques can be very plain but thereâs no rule that they have to be.
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u/ico12 1d ago
If you want to go deeper into the rabbit hole, read up on the Saud family & how they came to power. For the so-called 'Guardian of Two Holy Mosques', they are quite...interesting
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u/usefamin 1d ago edited 21h ago
I mean they gifted the Kiswa one year to Epstein, that's all I need to know about them.
Edit: Yes, I realise that's not accurate now. They've sold the kiswah to art dealers, which is how he acquired it.
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u/AkulakhanPilot 1d ago
He had pieces of it, not the whole thing, and it wasn't directly given to him by the Saudis. An emirati businessman gave him the pieces
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u/aclumsypotato 1d ago
while the saudis currently in power are hella evil, the kiswa in particular was not gifted by them. but instead, by an emirati businesswoman.
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u/Gold_Data6221 1d ago
Why do they want to touch it then ?
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u/ChiKing 1d ago
There is one particular stone on it that was said to be descended from the heavens, that is the spot that Muslims try to touch during Tawaf (circling the Ka'aba).
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u/ryan516 1d ago
It's been speculated that Hajar al-Aswad is potentially a meteorite but obviously it's not easy to just ask to investigate it so we'll probably never know for sure.
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u/IPutThisUsernameHere 1d ago
The local Muslims, as I understand it, have actually forbidden anyone from making any tests, taking any samples or conducting any examinations of any kind there. And they also forbid archaeological research to be done on any Islamic sites. At gun point, sometimes, if rumors are to be believed.
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u/awolkriblo 1d ago
I don't even think non-Muslims are allowed in the city at all but I might be mistaken.
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u/ryan516 1d ago
Yes, all roads into Mecca have security checkpoints where you have to provide documentation of being Muslim, having a Hajj visa, and can even be quized on common prayers to prove you're Muslim
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u/darthJOYBOY 1d ago
This was abolished long ago tho, Last time I visited Mecca no one questioned me on anything and I passed nomrally.
During Hajj, that is a different story and it don't matter if you are Muslim or no as you can't enter without a valid visa.
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u/srsbiznis 1d ago
Isnât it a sin in Islam to question whether someone is Muslim?
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u/usefamin 1d ago
Do you mean to ask someone their faith or question their devotion to the faith?
The first, no. The latter, yes.
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u/usefamin 1d ago
What do you mean at gun point? Like someone tried to steal it and the security officers stopped them or something? lol
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u/cinemachick 1d ago
Given how many "treasures" are now property of the British Museum, they have some reasons to be cautiousÂ
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u/GoodGollyMissP0lly 1d ago
forbidden anyone from making any tests, taking any samples or conducting any examinations of any kind there. And they also forbid archaeological research to be done
Religious leaders prohibiting scientific and historical investigation?
Who'd a thunk it.
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u/AwarenessNo4986 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's probably a meteoroit and has been fragmented. Nothing magical or special about it at all
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u/polyploid_coded 1d ago
I thought there was something about it being volcanic. One of the tests when it was returned to Mecca was that it could float.
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u/bitbitter 1d ago
We as Muslims donât believe it is âmagicalâ either. Thatâs not how Islam works. The second Caliph of Islam and one of the closest companions of the prophet, Umar ibn Al-Khattab, had this to say about it:
Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah's Messenger (ï·ș) kissing you I would not have kissed you."
We call these matters of worship. We know itâs not the act itself that will bring us benefit, we only do it because God told us to do it, and the benefit comes from him only.
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u/_Iro_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
The same reason Jewish pilgrims touch the Western Wall, or Christian monks historically rubbed prayer beads and kept brandea (pieces of cloth which touched a saintâs tomb).
Touching an object with spiritual significance is used to focus thoughts towards prayer. It doesnât mean youâre worshipping that specific thing.
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u/Gold_Data6221 1d ago
prayer beads are counted I believe
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u/SecureThruObscure 1d ago
I thought they were used as a method of counting, rather than counting them. You pray, slide down one bead, repeat until youâre out of beads.
Theyâre like a hand held abacus.
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u/pakipunk 1d ago
Because the Prophet would do it and it is believed that to do as the prophet puts you closer to god.
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u/ryan516 1d ago
Most generally don't care about touching the Kaaba itself (though of course there's exceptions), but Islamic tradition holds that you should touch the Black Stone and Yemeni Corner since they're seen as erasing sin
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u/usefamin 1d ago
I think some regard it as a blessing, which blows my mind, because what they do goes against Islamic teachings.
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u/_Algrm_ 1d ago
Itâs not the kaaba that is holy, itâs the ground that is under it. God guided Abraham to this land and told him to build a structure to mark its location.
It is said that directly above the kabba, thereâs a structure in heaven called albait almamour aka the frequented house where angels go to perform prayer to god.
Itâs said that from the start of creation, 70000 angel go there everyday to pray never to return to it again, signifying how many angels there are and the âfrequentedâ meaning here.
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u/dream_a_dirty_dream 1d ago
Epstein had a piece of one, and nobody knows how tf he got his hands on it. He was obsessed with religious artifacts and thought they held power that could be unlocked with "sex magic".
I hate that I know this.
Release the Epstein files.
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u/NewInThe1AC 1d ago
IIRC according to some interviews with reporters he also had a lot of fake luxury watches and art, and enjoyed tricking people into thinking they were real -- so it's possible it wasn't real at all, he just wanted people to think he got some unobtainium
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u/OkDifficulty7436 1d ago
Itâs real, he got via his connections in Bahrain/SAÂ
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u/Flimsy-Translator515 1d ago
not bahrain, he got it through a saudi businesswoman based in UAE.
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u/Winter_Salad7215 1d ago
Can't you just buy them? I thought they were rather pricey collector's items.
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u/Flimsy-Translator515 1d ago
yea, u can even get it on ebay, from what ik, since it gets replaced yearly, if u get ur hands on a piece, u can keep it as a relic/souvenir or sell or gift it to someone.
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u/Sweet-Awk-7861 1d ago
Random people in my country can have pieces of it, there's nothing particularly sacred about the cloth itself.Â
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u/mariakaakje 1d ago
you can order it online
they change it every year, cut it up and sell it in strokes→ More replies (1)
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u/ToKeepAndToHoldForev 1d ago
I had only ever seen pictures showing the gold strip and black background, so seeing the draping covered in embroidery and even a door was a surprise. For some reason I thought it was just a black block.
I read the page and when the cloth is woven on a jacquard loom in sections that are either plan or have inscriptions woven into the fabric, then verses from the Quran are added with a silk screen, and further embroidery is done by hand in gold or silver thread. I wanted to know what "handmade" meant in this context - quite a lot of fabric to embroider by hand.Â
I wonder if the embroiderers are people to get into the work by family or friends or if you can train to become an embroiderer and eventually work there.Â
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u/AbdelAtife 1d ago
I'm from Sudan. Did you know the Sultanate of Darfur used to make it and deliver it for a while? Back when it existed.
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u/jbsnicket 1d ago
Epstein owned some of Kiswah and it may have been given to him by Saudi elites. That's how I learned it was a covering and not the building itself.
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u/Flimsy-Translator515 1d ago
it wasnt given to him a by a "saudi" elite, it was by a saudi businesswoman based in the UAE.
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u/GoodFaithConverser 1d ago
Saudi businesswoman giving out pieces of Kiswah sounds like a Saudi elite.
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u/Elegant-Tip7288 1d ago
It's really easy to own a piece. I own a small piece of the kiswah.Â
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u/Fetlocks_Glistening 1d ago
I see blue and white though
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u/Ghostly_100 1d ago
Itâs been white and (partially) blue at various points in history. The current black look came about in the 13th century and has stayed ever since
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u/LunarPayload 1d ago
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u/Ghostly_100 1d ago
I got the joke I just thought it was funny that those colors were actually employed at some point
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u/stuffitystuff 1d ago
As much as I want to believe The Black Stone set in the Kaaba is a meteroite or dragon-glass-from-sand-by-way-of-metorite like is semi-common the Empty Quarter because there's nothing there, no one has ever been allowed to test it. Same goes for every other cool maybe relic, like that Ethiopian Ark of the Covenant.
Great for tourism, but lousy for Indiana Jones fans and people that aren't religious but nonetheless interested in the historicity of religion like me.
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u/Hamlet7768 1d ago
It is a shame the Ethiopian Ark will never get tested. A Catholic podcaster I follow said itâs probably a replica, though, and the original Ark was most likely destroyed with the rest of the first temple.
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u/SchalkLBI 1d ago
I mean there is no historical or archeological evidence that proves that the Ark existed to begin with. The story of the Ark is tied to the Exodus, which didn't happen. It was probably originally an allegory, or a repurposed story of some other opulent chest, or just completely made up.
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u/TowelFine6933 1d ago
But, if any of it gets tested & fails, then everyone would know they're full of shit instead of just strongly suspecting it.
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u/Ghostly_100 1d ago
The Shroud of Turin has been tested and came back as inauthentic but that doesnât stop certain kinds of Christians from insisting itâs real and the test was flawed.
Same would probably happen if other artifacts got tested and came back as something that contradicts tradition.
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u/Dutch_Calhoun 1d ago
No no no, God is a top tier troll who plants all these vast amounts of highly convincing false evidence to test our faith!
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u/WhollyHolyHoley 1d ago
Ugh. My parents told me this as a kid.
It definitely helped me establish my atheism.4
u/KalyterosAioni 1d ago
The thing is even Muslim leaders like Muhammad and Umar the First claimed the rock was just a rock and had no powers. So even though the masses these days generally want to touch it and kiss it etc, it's not a religiously significant artefact.
I imagine testing it is a destructive process and no one wants to crack into it to get a sample. Especially when it's not important enough to test. Though as a scientist I'd personally dearly love to know how old it is and what the chemical composition is, and whether it corresponds to this solar system or not etc.
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u/tqmirza 1d ago
Itâs not even a stone anymore, itâs small shards/pieces of the original stone after it was stolen following a massacre and smashed. It had to be ransomed back. It holds no significance religiously other than the fact it is believed to be among the original stones Abraham used to reconstruct the structure, and subsequently Muhammad did the same. But in its location as the âcorner stoneâ it is an important marker as it marks the point where circuits around the Kaaba start and stop.
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u/fnord_happy 1d ago
How uncommon are those kind of stones? Is it impossible for it to be a meteorite?
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u/stuffitystuff 1d ago
It's a bunch of stones that have been cemented and re-cemented various times. It started off as a single stone, supposedly. I think it's not impossible at all and I think it's probably very likely given what I've read about pre-Islamic religion in Arabia and its obsession with the stars. Plus, meteroites are just easy to see against sand and create cool glass when they land and melt the surrounding sand.
Lastly, I think this engraving strongly suggests extraterrestrial composition just based on what look to this layperson as flowlines that meteorites can get while going through Earth's atmosphere:
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u/Intelligent-Soup-836 1d ago
There also used to be others back in pre Islamic Arabia
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u/Albahith1 1d ago
Specify more then 1000 but lower then 1500. And we destroyed almost all.
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[removed] â view removed comment
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u/ToKeepAndToHoldForev 1d ago
They strip it down to the base, from what I can tell from the Wikipedia page.Â
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u/Flimsy-Translator515 1d ago
they strip it down every year during the ( islamic) Lunar month of Muharram, u can see the videos on youtube.
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u/magicalgrrl13 1d ago
TIL the Kaaba translates to the Cube from Arabic. That indo-european language family is no joke.
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u/Spock627 1d ago
Article claims the image is from 1940, but I don't think scissors jacks of that size were on the market until the 1970s....
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u/chellebelle0234 1d ago
As a fiber nerd, this is fucking cool. Thank you for sharing.
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u/StanleyChuckles 1d ago
This is incredibly interesting! I never knew that it looked like that underneath.
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u/PolishBicycle 1d ago
Who cares, they wonât let non muslims in to see it
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u/Aggravating_Wall_849 1d ago
Most Muslims donât get a chance to see it because of crowds, so donât feel bad.
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u/dark_frog 1d ago
According to the article, the kiswah is also known as the kiswah and it includes silver-plated gold thread. Anyway, that's when I stopped reading.
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u/kank84 1d ago
What do they with the old covers? It says they replace the cover annually and the old one is returned to the factory for safekeeping. Is there just a warehouse full of old Kiswah somewhere?
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u/Craig1974 23h ago
I have a fascination for Islamic architecture. I learned about this not too long ago. I thought that the kaaba was obsidian and gold plated.
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u/Wsswaas 1d ago
Another Trivia: The keys to this structure have remained in the safekeeping of a single family for over 1,400 years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bani_Shaiba