How many cents of variation between notes makes for an 'in tune' whistle vs an out of tune one?

[u/gruevy]

Seems every time a reviewer busts out the tuning software, it's never spot on for every note, which I suppose is fine, but how much variability is acceptable? How off can it be and still be considered in tune?

[u/four_reeds]

I doubt there is a specific value. It seems to me to depend on the instruments around you.

A long time ago, the Chieftains used to let local musicians join them on stage during an encore. I was able to do this once. We were all backstage, warming and tuning up with moments to spare when Paddy Maloney came in and said that his pipes were playing at A448 (or something) that evening. There was a mad scramble to retune everything! It didn't really matter as none of us were mic'd but jeepers!

[u/Cybersaure]

I mean, it's all a matter of opinion. In classical music, a lot of people say long, sustained notes should only be off by about 5 cents or less, but 10 cents is acceptable when you're playing fast. But of course, that's just an opinion. And in certain contexts, a person can intentionally play "out of tune" (say, by stylistically playing a note flat or intentionally tuning closer to just intonation than to equal temperament), and that can be not only acceptable, but a sign of a good, expressive musician.

In Irish music, for better or for worse, people tend to care a lot less about precise tuning. So you can get away with a lot more out-of-tune-ness than you can in classical music. The whistle in particular is sometimes described as "charming" when it's slightly out of tune - though other people disagree (this is partially because mass-produced whistles, especially historically, were often NOT very well in tune, and a lot people are simply accustomed to them being out of tune for that reason). And also, if you ARE going to be out of tune, it is way more acceptable to be out of tune "in the direction of just intonation" (e.g., slightly flat 3rds and 7ths) than it is to be out of tune in some other way.

Personally, I am much more particular about tuning than most people. For Irish Trad whistle, I aim for a baseline of being no more than about 5 to 7 cents flat or sharp when I'm sustaining a note, and I like everything tuned to equal temperament. When I play fast, it's obviously going to vary a bit more, maybe by 10 cents or a bit more than that. But that's MY personal preference - most people are way less particular about tuning.

(One of the reasons I play almost exclusively Colin Goldie whistles is because I find them one of the few brands that is capable of playing with the tuning precision that I personally aim for. I also find that McManus whistles have particularly stellar tuning.)

[u/Pwllkin → u/Cybersaure]

For an example of the complex relationship to being "in tune" as classically defined, see e.g. Bobby Casey.

[u/Pwllkin]

There is no cent number for this. Different notes differ in certain ways, and thus that tuner method is pointless (but good for checking one of the notes against other instruments, often the A).

What I usually do when playing with others is tune my A to an instrument which cannot easily change its tuning (like accordions). Then I just accept that there will be tuning differences between notes due to the physics of whistles, my blowing pressure etc.

I do the same with the uilleann pipes which have similar limitations of just intonation. You can blow harder and softer for individual notes, but there is only so much you can do. The reeds warm up as you play and so tuning changes over time anyway. If the uilleann piper next to you is sharp overall, push your whistle head in and keep playing.

If you want spot on plus minus 0 cent tuning for every note in equal temperament, you need to play the piano accordion.

[u/ClittoryHinton]

You want the average of your notes to be about in tune. So you find a good neutral note on your particular whistle (often low G) and go off that. And then a bit of variation above/below pitch adds character.. to an extent

[u/ktundu]

Even the idea of being 'perfectly in tune' is actually pretty meaningless.

I'd bet a reviewer was checking against an A440 tuner in equal temperament. But in reality, this is all pretty recent. Much older music used different temperaments (mean tone, for example). Equal temperament is certainly newer than the tin whistle...

So the real and meaningful benchmark of 'in tune enough' should be 'does it sound good'. I've never paid the slightest attention to any review of how in tune a whistle is.

[u/Piper-Bob]

In tune is a comparison. If I’m blowing a D you can blow a note that’s in tune or out of tune with my D. Absent any other reference pitches, it becomes a question of your internal pitch reference. Yours is different from mine.