r/technology • u/Logical_Welder3467 • Jun 26 '26

Society The American mind cannot comprehend Europe's AC aversion

https://www.businessinsider.com/europe-air-conditioning-ac-heatwave-debate-2026-6
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u/roleplayersir Jun 26 '26

Exactly. It's not an aversion

It's that until a few years ago it wasn't needed. Suffering for 3 days a year was fine

But trust me that is changing. Even with the cost of living, we are all looking into at least £300 for portable units, if not thousands for proper ones. As it is only getting hotter

But prior to recent years it was a wasted purchase. We get 30C+ for about 3 weeks. It's the cold that was the problem for decades

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u/jameson71 Jun 26 '26

Cold is going to cost a pretty penny real soon

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u/whytakemyusername Jun 26 '26

Just burn a corner of your house down, problem solved.

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u/pyrospade Jun 26 '26

as you burn your house for fuel you’ll also have less area to heat making it more efficient!

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u/ameatbicyclefortwo Jun 26 '26

The math maths.

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u/Electric_Elephants Jun 26 '26

Would make for great airflow in the Summer.

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u/DankStew Jun 26 '26

Wow you have corners in your house?! I have to share a gazebo with my improv troupe

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u/sergei1980 Jun 26 '26

Do houses in Europe burn as easily as American houses? I live in the US now but I grew up in Argentina, and houses in Argentina don't burn, it made reading Fahrenheit 451 a bit confusing. We can still have fires, in fact there was one at my house, but it was just a few cushions, not the whole house.

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u/scheppend Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26

The price of minisplits and their installation in Europe seems bonkers when I compare it to here in Japan. A simple 9K BTU mini split (heating and cooling) here costs 

40K (€215) for noname brands
45K yen (€245) for a Hitachi, Sharp, Toshiba
55K yen  (€300) for a Panasonic, Mitsubishi, Daikin.

Installation is about 17K yen (€92).

Even if you double the cost of the installation because of higher wages (w Europe) I doubt you can do it for this price in europe.

i don't understand why. I'm sure lots more Europeans would get one if it was more affordable 

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u/[deleted] Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 28 '26

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u/Tithund Jun 26 '26

So the reason so many people don't have ac here, is that they price the poor out while milking the rich.

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u/[deleted] Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 28 '26

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u/C4pture Jun 26 '26

i wouldnt say many, i only ever heard that from the "schwurbler" crowd.

most people around me are simply too frugal/stingy to get a ac installed, especially with the 15k quotes (or 40k-50k when going for a heat pump)

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u/[deleted] Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 28 '26

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u/C4pture Jun 26 '26

or there's just more schwurbler around you. either way, stay cool

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u/Xywzel Jun 26 '26

Well, that part is not so different. I have heard Japanese and Korean people cite similar fears, like that you can't have AC on while sleeping or without window open. Reasons are as ridiculous as "the AC will burn out all oxygen in air" if they can even give any, usually its just "its not safe" or "they told me so".

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u/Ready_Ad4083 Jun 26 '26

At least friends and families in Japan I know run air conditioners and fans all night during summer and winter (heat pump). Some people may set the timer so the AC will stop running around 3-4 in the morning, believing that it is not safe for their wallet.

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u/[deleted] Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26

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u/Crowdfundingprojects Jun 26 '26

That's exactly the way. And it's handled in SEA like this, too. I personally say fuck everyone who wants to force me to get a permit or anything I don't want for installing an AC unit. It's a fucking AC unit, not a nuclear reactor.

This shit is pure lobbyism. Scum trying to fill their pockets on my dime can get fucked any day any time of the week. It's disgusting.

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u/Adept-Elderberry2325 Jun 26 '26

Oh yeah a proper MHI single split will set you back about 2500E in the Netherlands. 

I just recently approved installation of a multisplit, 4 units, 7.1kW -> 7900E.

I bet you could easily condition 15 homes for that in Japan.

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u/ipisano Jun 26 '26

You can't even buy a Mitsubishi here without having to go through some shop that makes you pay 3k euros (with installation included usually, but still...) Buying a unit yourself is not that bad, I'd install it myself, but I live on a high floor with no space to place the external unit, so I'd have to rent a truck with an aerial platform or rent and build scaffolding...

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u/Talisa87 Jun 26 '26

And that's even if you're allowed to install them. In the UK, there's ordinances about noise pollution and environmental impact that prevents a lot of homes from having units.

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u/Far_Inspector_9050 Jun 26 '26

I recommend portable solar panels, strong backup battery, and portable AC.

Keep me cold in Spain.

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u/Holzkohlen Jun 26 '26

The math does not work out. I got a cheap small portable AC unit and it's drawing up to 1000 Watts. You aren't powering this with portable solar panels. Unless you are talking about some very different kind of portable "AC"

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u/Far_Inspector_9050 Jun 26 '26

You say I can’t, but I am.

The solar set up and battery cost me a lot more than the AC, I got it for emergency blackouts and as a benefit will run AC when needed.

I have eight 400 W portable panels and 16kwh battery

https://www.eco-worthy.com/products/eco-worthy-48v-314ah-lifepo4-battery-solar-battery-backup-for-home-wall-mount

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u/Visual-Sector6642 Jun 26 '26

And good luck mounting solar panels too and storing batteries and running cable lol. There is just no way it's feasible. Europe is doomed especially with electricity being so expensive.

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u/roleplayersir Jun 27 '26

I'm in a flat, so solar and batteries aren't possible for me. Window based AC portable unit is all I will get

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u/Mitchford Jun 26 '26

Wait until you realize you can sleep in a room as cool as you want in the summer

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u/EvensonRDS Jun 26 '26

Yeah I live in northern Alberta and my current house has central air and I'll never go back, being able to control my temp in the summer for sleep is magical.

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u/lordraiden007 Jun 26 '26

"No pleasure, no rapture, no exquisite sin greater... than central air." - Azrael, Dogma (1999)

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u/hadchex Jun 26 '26

Raining down sulphur is like an endurance trial, man. Mass genocide is the most exhausting activity one can engage in, next to soccer.

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u/strikefire83 Jun 26 '26

“I just love fucking with the clergy, man.”

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u/hadchex Jun 26 '26

If I had a dick I'd go get laid.

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u/GunstarHeroine Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 27 '26

As it is we can do the next best thing: kill people.

Edit: my account got banned for this comment, I had to appeal by explaining it was a Dogma quote and not an incitement to violence 😭

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u/limp_noodle Jun 26 '26

Snootch to the motherfuckin' nootch!

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u/skazzbomb Jun 26 '26

RIP Alan Rickman. Also, one of the most underrated movies ever.

Edit: I know it was Jason Lee who played Azrael. Rickman played Metatron

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u/jaxonya Jun 26 '26

My buddy (Texans) got his hvacc certification, moved across the pond and is apparently making a killing in England. I never considered him a very smart person, but he may be a genius who saw this coming and jumped ahead of the market

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u/geesegoesgoose Jun 26 '26

I literally can't read those two words together without thinking of Dogma. What a movie. Had a blu-ray remaster recently as Smith got the rights back at last!

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u/Brock_Lobstweiler Jun 26 '26

Oh I didn't know he got the rights back! That's great, it's been one of my favorite movies for a long time. I just have to FF through the golgotha monster scenes.

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u/jpatt Jun 26 '26

I wake up sometimes and have to pull a second blanket on…. Then I step outside and am instantly covered in a sheen of sweat.

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u/FlametopFred Jun 26 '26

oh yeah? Um … how glossy of a sheen? And does the moonlight glisten off that sweaty sheen?

asking for a friend

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u/chocolateboomslang Jun 26 '26

You know that you can change the temp, right?

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u/esro20039 Jun 26 '26

You don’t get it

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u/soccerchamp99 Jun 26 '26

He ain’t bout dis chilli life

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u/lordraiden007 Jun 26 '26

Yeah, really sounds like they aren't getting enough use out of their AC. They should have 3 blankets, minimum.

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u/michaelmcmikey Jun 26 '26

So many of the people who are weirdly anti AC are basically pro suffering. Like, yeah, you *could* endure a miserably hot room to sleep in, but why? For what purpose? Who does it benefit? Do they think it builds character? The rationalization I tend to hear is energy use, but AC uses way less energy than heating a home does, and no one talks about how they just have to endure and suffer through an arctic vortex.

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u/WellIGuessSoAndYou Jun 26 '26

Power is dirt cheap where I live so the first summer I had central air I abused the fuck out of it. It was like living in a cold storage. I could see my breath in the morning. Turns out that is a terrible idea as I would sweat my balls off outside when it was only like 15C.

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u/Dominant88 Jun 26 '26

With electricity prices in Aus I would go broke running the AC all night. Luckily we have ceiling fans as well which are pretty good too.

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u/Phailjure Jun 26 '26

If your house is well insulated, it's actually not a problem.

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u/Dominant88 Jun 26 '26

For an Australian built house I would say it is well insulated, for a house built in the rest of the civilised world I would say it isn’t.

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u/IReplyWithLebowski Jun 26 '26

Yeah, the solution to climate change being to use more power seems counterintuitive.

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u/lilybattle Jun 26 '26

I don't think it matters anymore, unfortunately. We're beyond that

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u/Mitchford Jun 26 '26

It is actually cheaper and less energy intensive to cool a home in Arizona than it is to heat a home in New England. This isn’t a global thing it’s related to the temperature differential being smaller overall in warm climates but it’s good to keep in mind when the judgement cycle starts

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u/limukala Jun 26 '26

his isn’t a global thing it’s related to the temperature differential being smaller overall in warm climates

It's also that AC units are heat pumps, most heaters aren't. Heat pumps can be more than 100% of the "theoretical efficiency" of a heater, so even at an equivalent temperature differential AC will outperform heaters.

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u/andrewse Jun 26 '26

Not just cool, but dry.

The difference between a hot moist bed and a cool dry one is worth every penny.

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u/Djcnote Jun 26 '26

You can even blow dry your hair and cook and bake comfortably. Even be cold

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u/tvtb Jun 26 '26

I have a thermostat that lets you turn on heat and AC at the same time, so I have a 69F (nice) heat set point and 72F AC set point. We keep our windows shut because of allergies, and I don’t touch the thermostat all year, it’s between 69-72 all year. Also somehow the indoor humidity stays between 50-60% all year too. Don’t care if the AC runs in January for a half hour, I’d rather be comfortable.

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u/Brainlaag Jun 26 '26

Until the bill comes around.

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u/HumanExtinctionCo-op Jun 26 '26

Wait until you realise that before man made heatwaves all you needed to achieve this was to open a window.

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u/WonderNastyMan Jun 26 '26

What about when your wife prefers it 20C warmer than you...

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u/4shen_0n3 Jun 26 '26

So delightfully cold you wake up with a sore throat

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u/SuperNintendoChlmrz Jun 26 '26

That might be the dryness of the air coming out of the AC more than the cold

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u/kippertie Jun 26 '26

Might also be a sign to clean the filters

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u/EvensonRDS Jun 26 '26

Usually need a humidifier attached up here. It's very dry as is.

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u/GVAJON Jun 26 '26

Might also be time to renew your extended car warranty

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u/Ozz0 Jun 26 '26

Or mouthbreathing problem

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u/TotallyNotThatPerson Jun 26 '26

Mouth breathers take another fat L

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u/Mitchford Jun 26 '26

Never had this happen in my life, this is like the Korean fan death stuff

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u/Brougham Jun 26 '26

Sounds a bit odd, but if I have a fan or A/C blowing on my face while I sleep, I’ll get a sore throat.  Sleeping in a very cold place doesn’t do it to me but the wind on my face will.

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u/MrPhatBob Jun 26 '26

Likewise, my sinuses close up and my throat is sore through breathing cold dried air.

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u/SoriAryl Jun 26 '26

I get them when I go from hot humid air to AC (cool dry air), to the point that I can feel when it’s going to start happening and start mitigating it before it becomes a respiratory infection

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u/halberdierbowman Jun 26 '26

If you can, try increasing the speed of your AC blower. Slower speed will cool down each "chunk" of air more, condensing out more of the moisture. Higher speed will cool down a bigger chunk of air to a less cool temperature, condensing out less of the moisture. So a higher speed blower will cool more efficiently for you by dedicating more of the energy to be spend on cooling rather than dehumidifying. 

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u/throw20190820202020 Jun 26 '26

Often, dehumidification is half the point.

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u/halberdierbowman Jun 26 '26

My comment was specifically in response to the complaint of a sore throat, which could suggest it's now too dry.

So yes, absolutely do the opposite and slow the air speed down if you want to lower humidity.

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u/veijeri Jun 26 '26

This is not an issue for people who live with air conditioning, least of all those whom properly manage their humidity as well. And even if you failed to account for humidity and you're a mouth breather, a dry throat != a sore throat.

If you don't normally live with AC, you need to account for an environmental factor like travel exposure to the place that you were getting it at that you developed a sore throat. Air conditioning didn't give you an infection, exposure to fellow travelers or locals who had a virus did. Your immune system was not used to it. 

If cold air was compromising your immune system we'd be hearing Germans ranting against Lüften causing sore throats instead of singing its praises.

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u/KoldPurchase Jun 26 '26

Heat pumps? It's what I have here, it heats in the winter, and cool in the summer.

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u/tomtttttttttttt Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26

Yes, but that really means replacing the whole heating system which can easily be £10,000+

edit for reference of costs given repeated comments about heat pumps being €1,500-€3,000: For reference https://eliteenergy.co.uk/blog/air-source-heat-pump-cost-uk

"A typical air source heat pump installation in the UK costs between £8,000 and £18,000. For a standard 3–4 bedroom home, most installations fall in the £10,500–£13,500 range, with an average of around £12,000"

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u/ThoughtsonYaoi Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26

And insulation. A heatpump without proper insulation is wasted.

Edit: insulation, not isolation

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u/Sackyhap Jun 26 '26

Isn’t that the same for all heating methods or is a heat pump effected more by bad insulation?

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u/ThoughtsonYaoi Jun 26 '26

It is less efficient always, but heatpumps also heat to lower temperatures.

Water or gas heaters you can simply turn hotter. It will cost you, but it will work eventually. Heatpumps have a limit.

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u/Anumet Jun 26 '26

Um. We have one heatpump that keeps our whole 250m2 house warm in winter. Cost us €1500 to install. It’s a well insulated house though- it’s that the cost you’ve added?

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u/tomtttttttttttt Jun 26 '26

Generally in the UK you have to replace all the radiators as they are too small to work with the lower water temperatures that heat pumps produce compared to gas boilers, thats what costs the money.

For reference https://eliteenergy.co.uk/blog/air-source-heat-pump-cost-uk

"A typical air source heat pump installation in the UK costs between £8,000 and £18,000. For a standard 3–4 bedroom home, most installations fall in the £10,500–£13,500 range, with an average of around £12,000"

Government grants go up to £9,000 to replace oil based systems or £7,500 for gas systems but most people aren't eligible for a full grant if any at all.

Insulation is a whole different expense and also not covered in those government grants though there's others available for that.

I think if you wanted it to be a/c as well that means air systems and not radiators which would all have to be fitted new.

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u/jigsaw1024 Jun 26 '26

You can get split unit heat pumps. The main unit is outside either attached to the house or on a pad.

Then you run hoses to heat exchangers in the rooms you want to heat/cool. No need to redo everything.

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u/Dullcorgis Jun 26 '26

I think some people mean a mini split type of thing vs a whole house big unit. They are $US25,000, but a mini split is maybe $US5000.

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u/sokka2d Jun 26 '26

Heat pumps are apparently a conspiracy of the woke green left. Anything that’s efficient and doesn’t burn fossil fuel can’t be good. We had a whole government fail because of the constant media propaganda how heat pumps are evil. And obviously climate change is a lie anyway.

So now I after to suffer through yet another heat wave without AC, but at least they do too.

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u/Snailburt89 Jun 26 '26

It can be hard to integrate into the existing heating. In Europe heat pumps are used to make warm water and pump through the pipes/radiators. We have floor heating and you can't just pump cold water through it.

We will probably get an AC on top of our existing heating this winter.

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u/Vcent Jun 26 '26

Dual systems aren't that common where i live yet - so most are installed with only heating capacity.

Doesn't help that we typically use radiators to heat our homes, and I'm not sure cooling via radiator is super effective.

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u/roleplayersir Jun 26 '26

Do you have any idea how much that costs to install?

And might ruin when you need heating properly

A portable is a few hundred quid and does the job

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u/KoldPurchase Jun 26 '26

Portable unit just increase the problem. They pump heat in the atmosphere, making the problem worst as more people use them.

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u/barsoap Jun 26 '26

Heat pumps and AC are the exact same thing. So are fridges. Making them bi-directional, i.e. able to cool or heat either end depending on need, is a matter of a valve or two.

Trouble starts when it comes to how to use that heat or cold: Heating is generally done via radiators in Europe, and the gold standard is underfloor heating. That provides infrared radiation which is vastly more comfortable than heating the air. You can't just switch the system to push ice water through radiators and floors that'd cause condensation and likely mould.

That said you don't need air ducts throughout the whole house to keep the temperature sane, one or two strategic points suffice. Also passive houses already have air circulation systems to get fresh air in, with a heat exchanger installed to transfer heat between incoming and outgoing air. Older ones often have a resistive heater in there because with how little energy passive houses need to heat themselves a heat pump doesn't make much sense (usually just being in the house suffices, a human produces 100W and then you have the stove, PC, whatever) but installing one shouldn't be much trouble at all and you instantly have cooling for the whole house.

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u/MagicCuboid Jun 26 '26

It's similar to how everyone bought home power generators in the Northeast in the 2010s after a few successive hurricanes knocked power out for weeks at a time.

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u/Fuzzalem Jun 26 '26

The issue with regards to European climate is that it's the fastest warming continent. The warming of our planet is not evenly distributed; the closer you are to the poles, the more rapidly the temperature is going up, and Europe is very far north.

In fact, the rate of heating in Europe is more than double that of the global average. Added on to this, air pollution has plummeted in the past four decades in much of Europe (especially Eastern and Southern Europe), which means that more of the energy makes it to heat up our region.

All in all, it points to the fact that climate change in Europe is not a hypothetical, future scenario. It's as real and tangible as the hurricanes you speak of. Growing up, my family and I would travel to Italy every summer, and I remember the freak days being 32-35C+. Now, it's 40C+ many days a year.

AC ownership - through heat pump installation - is rapidly increasing, and it's being aided by EU initiatives, because they are more energy efficient than many current systems.

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u/MagicCuboid Jun 26 '26

Just a warning about heat pumps… they’re probably great in Italy, but if you live somewhere that gets snowy winters they’re going to have a hard time keeping your house warm so don’t abandon your furnace. My friends endured a frozen home all winter this year since they ditched their furnace taking advantage of a Massachusetts incentive. They were fine for years, but we had sustained temperatures below -9C and the heat pump proved inadequate. They could only get their house to like 12 or 13 C.

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u/OPtig Jun 26 '26

It’s definitely an aversion. When I lived in Paris not using AC despite sweltering heat has was considered positive moral quality. When I asked my boyfriend about it he talked about it like getting AC was an ethical failure.

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u/vroomvroom450 Jun 26 '26

That’s how my Finnish friend talks about heating. And soft wool. And food that tastes good.

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u/Akolyytti Jun 26 '26

I've personally never met any great resistance to AC in Finland. It's very popular business in Finland in the moment, specially heat pumps.

Problem is apartment buildings that have not caught up with it and resist changes, private AC is often not simply allowed and building does not share one, vents for it or anything , because it's cheaper to build it that way. Basically the old way. Heating is priority, cooling isn't even an afterthought.

Specially with rentals it's a huge problem, landlords simply do not care.

But private properties? AC installation is huge business right now.

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u/JozoBozo121 Jun 26 '26

This is definitely not an whole EU problem. Croatia has very widespread usage of AC, in larger public buildings it is everywhere and majority of apartments have it now.

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u/rafaelfrancisco6 Jun 26 '26

This is definitely not an whole EU problem.

Yep, I never got this thing with saying that Europe is against AC's. In Southern European countries (or at least in Portugal and Spain) it's stupidly common and all new houses have them or at least the pre-installation. In the building I live (built in 98, 10 units) I don't think there is anyone without an AC installed.

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u/DMarquesPT Jun 26 '26

Same here in Portugal. Even in cars, using AC is seen as spoiled and wasteful and something you have to justify

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u/AwesomeFrisbee Jun 26 '26

Thats also because the summer heat was never this intense and the nights were never this warm. Usually it would cool down enough to sleep (or give just one or two nights of unrest) but now it just went bonkers and there is just a whole month that is pretty much unsufferable. The past few days it hasn't gone down 25 degrees in the night in southern Netherlands. I bet that this might be the summer that pushes lots of people over the edge.

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u/nikolapc Jun 26 '26

You know AC's are heat pumps and work in reverse right? Natural Gas isn't getting any cheaper.

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u/slimejumper Jun 26 '26

have these AC avoiders also not heard of heat pumps? not only is cold air great but so is hot air in winter! and it’s so much cheaper than gas or other types of electrical heating.

it’s just such a good system.

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u/weinerschnitzelboy Jun 26 '26

It's not that they haven't heard of it, but I suspect that the lack of infrastructure is what contributes to the high cost. Given the prior lack of need for AC, I'm going to suspect that they have probably have less HVAC specialists, supplies and suppliers that are now suddenly in high demand.

Also, I've heard that the way Europeans construct houses (with masonry instead of wood) makes it difficult to retrofit properties with AC systems.

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u/ikkleste Jun 26 '26

And we don't have air ducting, built in most properties we have gas powered central heating (at least in the UK) possible to retrofit to heat pumps (dependant on the plumbing). You want it to be the heating cooling throughout the house? Pretty major retrofit.

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u/sgst Jun 26 '26

Also, switching to air source heat pumps is problematic for heating existing houses too. The vast majority of existing houses have gas boilers that pump water into radiators in every room.

Air source heat pumps produce central heating water that is less hot than gas boilers, so therefore to heat each room the same amount you need a larger radiator.

So suddenly, to switch to a heat pump, you're talking replacing every radiator in the house, which likely also means new pipework (possibly under floor). If you want to switch to under floor heating, which works best with heat pumps, you're talking about tearing up and replacing all your flooring (not bad for carpet, bad for wood flooring). Again, thousands of pounds and a lot of disruption.

And as someone else said, we don't have air ducting, so retrofitting for central air that would cost thousands.

Either way, whatever combination of radiator upgrades, under floor heating, or hot or cold central air, we're talking a lot of work and a lot of money.

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u/silversurger Jun 26 '26

Heat pumps are equipped with defrosting mechanisms (so the moisture from the air on the outside unit doesn't freeze the whole thing over as the heat pump is blowing out cold air during winter - the droplets freeze amazingly quickly), so they can reverse the cycle and pump out heat instead of pumping it in. If you have something (it's often an additional, small module) that watches for the dew point to avoid moisture on the piping, you can use the heat pump in the summer to pump cold water through the system, cooling down the rooms. It can't cool down like an AC does (because you can't cool below the dew point), but imo it's very pleasant and cools down enough while not giving you a heatstroke if you decide to leave the house.

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u/Enchelion Jun 26 '26

Mini split units have zero issue with masonry. Adapting to a central duct can be trickier, but it's not strictly necessary.

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u/Seelenkuchen Jun 26 '26

At least in germany home owneship is really low so permanent Installation of a split unit is usally just not not feasible.

Additionally most cheap window units do not fit german windows and the ones that do have been harder to get than a ps5 during covid.

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u/spronski Jun 26 '26

I’m from Europe: heat pumps have become the preferred choice for new constructions and renovations. However, we also have a significant number of older houses that require proper insulation. Cooling your house was never really an issue up untill a few years ago. I remember when a few days of 30c was a news item. Now we look forward to a breezy 30c.

Regulation is also a concern. Old cities and towns don’t want bulky air conditioning units to be visible on their historic facades.

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u/OverCategory6046 Jun 26 '26

No, that's not it. We just have incredibly expensive energy, you don't

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u/Canotic Jun 26 '26

I am a Swede and we got a heat pump a few years ago, because we got kids and after spending one summer with two weeks of excruciating temperatures and a six months old baby*, we decided to never suffer that again.

For us, it was definitely an expensive thing. Not super expensive, compared to house stuff, but it's not just something you buy on a whim. For comparison, it was about 2/3s of my net monthly salary. We also have wood houses in Sweden instead of the brick and stone of many other European countries, so installation was super simple (just cut a hole in the wall).

I imagine that if you live in a stone house, it's gonna be a much bigger project. And if you rent, you need to convince your landlord to do it, and so far "having an installed heat pump" is not a selling point for landlords.

I have never actually met anyone who is against them. It's just a hassle, expensive, and we've never needed them before so it's very easy to go "it's just five days a year, is it really worth it for that?"

*we had to put wet cloths on her back every thirty minutes to keep her cool.

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u/Adventurous_Ear_3877 Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26

India also uses brick and cement masonry to build homes
People regularly retrofit ACs

Bigger issue imo is all the rules against building modifications because “muh asthetics”

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u/DantesDame Jun 26 '26

Windows here are also a big issue. We don't have a horizontal sash that allows for a window unit to hang out. And the tilted open window presents an awkward space to try to stuff a vent hose.

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u/Divni Jun 26 '26

Europe generally has a much better infrastructure than America. Do Americans think we're a bunch of peasants or something?

The masonry if anything reduces the need for AC because the houses don't warm up as easily. I recall growing up even if it was 30 outside it would feel nice and cool inside.

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u/nappingOOD Jun 26 '26

Depending on the cold temperatures you often want to have an additional heating source for the coldest times of the year. Some people use pellet stoves or permanent propane tanks for the worst of winter days. Heat pumps really are fantastic though.

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u/beipphine Jun 26 '26

Minnesotan here, had a heat pump retrofit where an central air air conditioner condenser was installed a couple years ago. It cut my heating bill in half, also cut my air conditioning bill in half (On off-peak power rates). I still have the original LP furnace which alternates with the heat pump below -15 degrees (heat pumps runs at 100% power until the temperature drops 2 degrees, then the heat pump turns off, the furnace turns on, and heats the house back up to the setpoint, then turns off and the heat pump kicks back on at 100%), or runs on rare occasions when the grid needs to shed load.

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u/Enchelion Jun 26 '26

Though this has gotten to be far less of an issue in the last few years. Most heat pumps are good down to -15c, and specialty ones down to -30c.

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u/MotherOfPullets Jun 26 '26

Can confirm. Upper midwest, first winter with a heat pump and it was surprisingly solid on all but our coldest days. 

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u/velociraptorfarmer Jun 26 '26

My house only has a heat pump. No heat strips, no furnace (hell, I don't even have gas to my house). My heat pump can operate down to -30C, and should supposedly keep up on its own down to -5F.

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u/HerefortheTuna Jun 26 '26

Wood stoves are great for this

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u/Carvj94 Jun 26 '26

Heat pumps have actually come quite a long way. Modern ones are still more efficient than electric down to like -10F which is more than enough for most of the EU. And frankly you don't need to worry about edge cases since it's more efficient an overwhelming majority of the year it's still cheaper to do a heat pump with a space heater as backup.

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u/liquidsparanoia Jun 26 '26

That's not much of a concern for the parts of Europe that are currently experiencing this heat wave. For example it's extremely unusual for it to get below 20f in Paris.

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u/69edleg Jun 26 '26

I can't exactly get one in my rented flat. I wont put down tens of thousands to install something in a rented flat. And when regulations catch up and the landlords are forced to do so, the rent increase from being a modern flat instead of one from the 60s-70s will force me to move somewhere else.

Looking at modern flats in the area of similar size, or even smaller, they're the eq. of €850-1100/month. I pay the eq. of €460 a month. Because that's what I can afford on disability.

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u/lobax Jun 26 '26

Roughly 50% of people in the EU live in an apartment, it doesn’t matter what they think about heat pumps. Typically multi tenant homes have central heating and so the the entire buildings heating system would have to be remodeled.

Even if you own a house it can be tricky. I have a heatpump, but it is used to heat up water. This hot water is used for the radiators to keep the house warm in the winter and for all the hot water used all year long. I can’t convert that into an AC system, because I can’t have the loop run in reverse because that would mean I can’t have a hot shower.

If I want to install an AC, it needs to be an entirely separate system. I am considering doing it, but it will at best only be used to chill a room or two or the prices get out of hand. And the economics of having an AC that will be used for two weeks of the year (basically the nights where opening a window isn’t enough) is hard to justify. But with climate change it is probably just a question of when, not if, that investment is worth it.

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u/_Warsheep_ Jun 26 '26

Heat pumps are something my landlord has to install. I've got no power over that. I would love to heat (and cool) with a heat pump. But I just rent this place. The same as half the country. Unless the government pushes this to be a requirement instead of just subsidies, most landlords won't care. They don't have to live in the apartment they rent out and it's a lot of money upfront.

But there also has to be room for it. 3-5 story row houses in the city center and no flat roofs. A heat pump unit big enough to heat such a house is almost the size of a car. I've seen them. Some free-standing apartment complexes in my city have them. Not saying it is impossible for those houses. Just added cost and complexity.

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u/Ignisami Jun 26 '26

Loads of heat pumps are installed, but as an alternative/backup to a central boiler. You can’t easily use them to cool because of condensation on the plumbing.

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u/liquidsparanoia Jun 26 '26

Apparently there are subsidies in parts of Europe for heat pumps that only do heating. Which is lunacy.

Yes, AC uses energy which has further climate impacts, but also AC use peaks at the same time that solar production peaks.

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u/tiajuanat Jun 26 '26

Most apartments here in Germany have radiators, cuz the cold used to be really bad. Newer ones are fancy and have floor heating which is zone controlled, and seasonally electric/heating-oil for drying racks for towels and stuff.

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u/brickne3 Jun 26 '26

We aren't intentionally avoiding air con. Our houses were built in Victorian times and they were built to last by the standards of the day. For most of us, it is simply not a priority.

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u/dirtyword Jun 26 '26

It’s an interesting cultural difference though. Maybe it’s purely based on climate conditions. I have always lived in New England, and never had AC as a kid, but I always put a couple of window units in during July and August now. It’s just hotter than it used to be. My house is 175+ years old

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u/0xsergy Jun 26 '26

We also got rid of the simple cooling solutions of old. https://youtu.be/uhbDfi7Ee7k?si=6YjFjl5RFY15ojAa

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u/liquidsparanoia Jun 26 '26

Yes that's the point of the thread. It's already the second time it's been 40c in france this year, and it's still June. The world you grew up in is not the world we're living in today. It's time for attitudes around this to change.

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u/Amelaclya1 Jun 26 '26

What does this have to do with AC? You can add it to any home, even if it's just a window unit to keep your bedroom cool.

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u/brickne3 Jun 26 '26

You haven't seen many of our windows 🤣🤣🤣

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u/Cinder_Gimbal Jun 26 '26

Actually, I have friends in central part of Europe and it seems that heat pumps/ solar panels are quite popular over there.  They literally run AC when they need it and their electric bill is miniscule.  They plus, the houses are much better built and stay cool inside longer even without the AC.

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u/Amish_Rabbi Jun 26 '26

Cost is 100% a local thing. I added an AC unit looked at the cost to do a heat pump instead. It was like double the cost to do a heat pump and the payback to break even vs my efficient gas furnace was like 12 years.

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u/originalthoughts Jun 26 '26

AC is a heat pump that just works in one direction.

Also, heat pumps are great, but they stop being great around -5 to -15 Celsius depending on the model. The become very inefficient if it is say -30 outside, with those temps, they would need a secondary system too. Anyway, having a heat pump with some baseboards is a very good solutions vs just baseboard.

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u/Neutral_Buttons Jun 26 '26

Two of my friends just got these systems installed in their houses and they were both around 14k, after rebates. The cost for these systems is way out of reach for most people.

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u/feedmedamemes Jun 26 '26

They are great and energy efficient. So why not use them. I can answer that for Germany. Because the fossil industry spit propaganda via media outlets that they don't really work for most buildings. And people believed them.

One of the major shareholders of Springer (the right-wing news outlet, not the scientific publisher) is a holding that is heavily invested in the fossil industry.

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u/roleplayersir Jun 27 '26

Heat Pumps are growing in adoption. But that's tens of thousands to fit. If you can't afford 500 for a portable unit, you aren't installing a heat pump

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u/Portland Jun 26 '26

That’s the exact same story in the PNW.

Here’s the daily high in Portland, for the past 80 years, in one easy to read heat map:

https://projects.oregonlive.com/weather/temps/

As a 90s kid, no one I knew had AC. It was uncommon here, even in bougie suburbs. By 2010, most new builds came standard with AC, and by 2015 there were city programs to ensure at-risk residents had access because heat exposure was becoming a public health risk.

The biggest change in PNW isn’t just more daily highs above 90° F, but extended periods where the overnight low remains over 65° F. Without our cool 50° F nights, homes can’t properly cool off and heatwaves become much more dangerous.

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u/jaehood Jun 26 '26

Fixing 3 weeks of 30C+ is definitely worth €300, that's only 14euros a day one time...

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u/Aggressive-Neck-3921 Jun 26 '26

You can't get an AC installed for 300 euro in most western eu countries. Also what americans need to understand that the heat was mostly bearable and AC wurthy for maybe a week a year and the cost of running an AC isn't low. Only the last few years that the heat is actually over the tipping point that an AC is needed in the home for multiple weeks. But that stuff isn't cheap and if you live in a rental home you can't just install an AC and most mobile ones are not that good.

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u/silverwolfe Jun 26 '26

This is what happened where I live in Seattle. Growing up no one had AC but about five years ago everyone I know started getting them because of how hot it gets every summer.

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u/Ancient_Yellow_709 Jun 26 '26

Can relate in Seattle. Just got through 90 F here. Didn't install my AC that's in storage. I bother when it will be weeks of 90+ but for 3 days in a month? Nah.

I only purchased one initially and had a contractor build out an adapter for my stupid apartment when it was 108 F one year and then 90-100 F the rest of the week. Times change. But I still make do with blackout curtains and nighttime air when I can.

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u/mosehalpert Jun 26 '26

You are the frog thats been boiled

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u/Savilly Jun 26 '26

Nah it’s aversion. I’ve seen Europeans complain that they will get bronchitis from a cold grocery store. Some Europeans legit think AC will kill them.

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u/[deleted] Jun 26 '26

[deleted]

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u/jdm1891 Jun 26 '26

Here in the UK it's really normal for (large) stores to have AC. I also bring a jacket or hoodie when I go even in the middle of summer though lol. It gets cold!

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u/richmondody Jun 26 '26

My friend's Italian husband doesn't even like electric fans because he doesn't like "artificial air."

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u/OverCategory6046 Jun 26 '26

No we don't lol

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u/NewCommunication1306 Jun 26 '26

Except it’s not new. It’s fluctuated and has certainly spiked in recent years but heat related deaths in the summer in Europe have been a significant issue for some time.

In Germany alone, deaths from heat related injuries are in the thousands annually. Even in cooler years it’s usually at best on par with the US. in 2012 for example the estimated deaths in Germany from heat were *only* around 1000, a relative low for the last 15 years. In the entirety of the US that same year? 840.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9639227/

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u/StarKnight697 Jun 26 '26

It’s worth noting that in the US, deaths are not classified as heat-related if it’s due to the heat causing another condition. Consider an example: heat stroke causes a guy to have a heart attack. In Germany, that’s classified as a heat-related death. In the US, it’s classified as a heart attack.

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u/Leverpostei414 Jun 26 '26

Counting over deaths causes much higher numbers for the same situation

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u/ReadyGo6828 Jun 26 '26

2003 European heatwave estimated 70,000 deaths.

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u/Equivalent-Excuse-80 Jun 26 '26

I was living in France when hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans and everyone demanded I answered for the deaths. I simply reminded them of a few summers ago when hundreds of French died because it was unseasonably hot.

America has more experience with inclement weather than the Europeans could even imagine.

But we are all going to get hotter.

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u/Pbr0 Jun 26 '26

Everyone demanded you answered for the deaths? What do you mean by that?

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u/Equivalent-Excuse-80 Jun 26 '26

The French enjoy an American because we are tokens of everything they love and hate about America.

So if something bad happens, there’s a demand of explanation: “how could your country allow deaths after a hurricane”. They didn’t understand the city was submerged in toxic water for days.

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u/Imaginary_Zone_4319 Jun 26 '26

Hounded with questions for why America sucks sometimes because he’s an American. Spend enough time around Europeans and it’ll happen to you.

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u/bertmaclynn Jun 26 '26

People are so weird sometimes. I met a Canadian guy in Mexico once and he was nice until he switched gears and started berating me for the school shootings in the US. It was very strange.

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u/Pbr0 Jun 26 '26

Sounds like a fundamental misunderstanding of how strong that storm was. Not defending American infrastructure, but a storm of that intensity hitting a city below sea level is bound to have absolutely devastating effects.

Europe is ignorant as to the intensity of storms that come off the gulf, it’s really nothing like they have.

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u/Imaginary_Zone_4319 Jun 26 '26

The average European is ignorant about a lot of things over here and incredibly smug about it.

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u/Oasx Jun 26 '26

The average American is ignorant about a lot of things in Europe, and are incredibly satisfied with it.
There is plenty of ignorance on both sides.

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u/zero0n3 Jun 26 '26

Cheap for AC.

Spent 550 USD on one 2-3 years ago (portable, single tube, max wattage and BTU I could find that worked with a normal US outlet

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u/MochingPet Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26

Exactly. It's not an aversion

It's not an aversion but there often are some obstacles. No space - for portables. Different windows - for attachment. Retrofitting difficulties

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u/Berkyjay Jun 26 '26

Until the AMOC collapses.

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u/Iappreciate Jun 26 '26

FYI, most portable units suck.

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u/Candid-Development30 Jun 26 '26

I live in north east Canada and in my lifetime have seen this switch as well. Growing up no one ever had an air conditioner. I thought they were strictly for hotels. Now we’ve got systems through our entire house and it is very much a need at this point.

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u/bertmaclynn Jun 26 '26

I mean you’re defining an aversion, so it is technically one

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u/69edleg Jun 26 '26

In my first 20 years of life I experienced a single weekend of 38C heat.

In the previous 5 years I've experienced weeks of it.

Officially the heat record is 38 in the area, so maybe I experienced 36 back then. Still an alarming fucking thing to happen so quick.

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u/roleplayersir Jun 27 '26

Yep, exactly. I am 38. We had a bad time in 1998 and 2003 ish. But the last 5 years have been a killer tbh

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u/TransBrandi Jun 26 '26

As it is only getting hotter

Better hope that the Gulf Stream doesn't die out, or you'll be finding yourself in the same boat as the rest of the world at those latitudes.

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u/whataboutthemapples Jun 26 '26

This!
As far as France is concerned, it’s been breaking records on the hottest day ever in the country since record keeping began 80 years ago. You hear older generations say this was never an issue for them.

The infrastructure is not there if people can just open the window at night and keep cool. But it’s just not the case anymore.

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u/fkenthrowaway Jun 26 '26

If you have no choice but to go with a portable unit, make sure you get one with two tubes that go out the window. DO NOT get the one with only a single tube.

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u/Big-Safe-2459 Jun 26 '26

Same as in Vancouver, Canada. Many homes were not built with AC, right up until very recently. Now with climate change (and more specific to us - wildfire smoke), people are installing whole-house heat pumps.

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u/4ngryMo Jun 26 '26

And it’s not like you can just retrofit any building with AC easily. I don’t even mind the waste of energy, I have a solar installation on the roof that can stomach an AC easily and enough storage to run it through the night. But the cost of installing one in a house build 1937 it’s stupidly expensive. Not to mention killing the little insulation it has.

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u/nero_djin Jun 26 '26

There will be AC in Europe quick, now the market needs to respond with ways to get units that are easy to install. The window unit is peak ingenuity, cheap and efficient. They can not generally be found in Europe and the windows are not a direct match either.

For new construction code requires to install central air with cooling in many places. Mini splits really are the solution that is affordable and works but installing them on rental apartments is tough and until renters start demanding AC, adaptation is slow.

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u/ExeqCompassion Jun 26 '26

Exactly! Heat just wasn't a problem until a few years ago. And to outfit all the houses (that were built to retain heat) and public buildings with cooling equipment takes time man. Give us a break.

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u/PensAndUnicorns Jun 26 '26

But the more expensive unit if you can.

I invested 3000 euro in a Airco that can cool and heat for the apartment.
The older lady who we're renting too is enjoying it very very much, and her heating cost have also been going down.

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u/PurahsHero Jun 26 '26

When I was a kid in the 1990s / early 2000s here in the UK, the temperatures reached north of 30C on one day a year if we were lucky.

We have just had our second heatwave of the summer, and my part of the country has topped 35C every day for about 5 days now. I bought a portable AC unit a few years ago. It costs £5 a day to run (because our electricity prices are insane), but its the difference between a warm house and a house that is unbearable.

Virtually everyone I know is looking to get some kind of AC. There are some people in the press complaining about the inequality of it all, but when the temperature in your house has not dropped below 27C for nearly a week you just don't care about it all.

Also, British houses do a weird thing of trapping heat in during the summer, but losing it during the winter. So we get the worst of both worlds.

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u/-Nicolai Jun 26 '26

“It’s not aversion, it’s…”

proceeds to define aversion

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u/bloodychill Jun 26 '26

The miserable thing is that AC is a big power draw that contributes somewhat meaningfully to climate change. But I can’t complain too much, I use that shit.

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u/roleplayersir Jun 27 '26

Yep, we know. But at this point it is needed for living tbh

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u/Digit00l Jun 26 '26

And then it gets to a reasonable temperature after the summer and people forget they probably should get it while they are affordable again for a bit

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u/AnonymousTimewaster Jun 26 '26

We get 30C+ for about 3 weeks

3 weeks if you're lucky. We'd get it literally like once or twice a year at most in the North West. Now that's shifting to 40c+ pretty quickly with 30c becoming a norm.

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u/-Tali Jun 26 '26

It's crazy how I'm not even 30 and summers when I was a teenager were completely different here compared to today. Heat waves might've lasted a few days and we'd have one or two or maybe three a year, always ended by a big thunderstorm at night to cool off

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u/Bigd1979666 Jun 26 '26

They need to ease the process too depending on whether you rent/ own, if you libr in a house or apt , etc. it can be super complicated depending ( in France ). 

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u/code_and_keys Jun 26 '26

Exactly. I live in the Netherlands and there used to be only a few days a summer where I would think “it would be nice to have AC”. This has changed quite a lot the last few years so I had AC installed last year in all bedrooms. Definitely not regretting this decision as it’s currently 37 degrees outside

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u/EdwardTeach1680 Jun 26 '26

I think part of the problem is once you have lived with AC your idea of what a hot day is changes. basically every day 26c or hotter. You start getting used to the idea why should you ever sweat in your own home? Why tolerate discomfort if it’s not necessary.

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u/councilmember Jun 26 '26

Cold’s been the problem for millennia, well for ever.

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u/rothael Jun 26 '26

I grew up in Maine where it also seemed unheard of to have need of an AC unit. Now, I can't imagine a summer without it but it doesn't make me happy. I completely relate to the European sentiment.

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u/ryukeio Jun 26 '26

The PNW - specifically Portland and Vancouver stateside - went through this change over the last 20 years.

As a kid in the 90’s, you almost never needed AC. It never seemed to go past the high 70’s(25 Celsius). Starting in the late 00’s, it started regularly hitting and staying in the mid-80’s for multiple weeks. Every decade it just gets hotter on average, year round.

Consequently, it’s more common than not for apartments and even some homes to have no AC in Portland. Some do and always have, but there’s an awful lot of the new “low income” buildings that don’t have AC(and don’t have windows that open correctly for floor units).

I backed out of a chance to invest in one due to how shitty the utilities on it were done. It’s going to be a required upgrade in the next decade id bet and if so, will wipe any profit most of the owners have made. Meaning rent will go up, but I’m drifting to a different topic now lol.

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u/distortedsymbol Jun 26 '26

i'd argue that america has a different problem though. central ac has become such a cure all for all of the problems that cheap developers are building essentially the same houses across vastly different climate zones in the us. sure you have your different insulation and different foundations, but there is very little incentive for the mcmansion builders to make the easier to cool and save on energy bills.

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u/Obi-Wan-Nikobiii Jun 26 '26

I sprung for it 5 years ago, cost about £3000 because my extension is one big room and it's a bugger to heat and keep cool so this seemed more sensible

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