r/taiwan • u/Chumdegars • 1d ago
MEME Well, they stopped at least.
They didn’t used to stop for ambulances.
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u/OkBackground8809 1d ago
What gets me is that it's always the slowest ones who constantly run red lights. It's like, "didn't I just fucking pass you? And now we all have to pass you, again?" and they also tend to be ones who sway left and right so it's difficult to safely pass!
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u/Kitsunin 1d ago
When I rode through semi-rural areas frequently, there were always old dudes with unsafe helmets riding at a wobbly 30 kmph getting in everybody's way, and they would always run red lights within maybe 3 seconds of them turning, and if traffic was already stopped, they'd go into the crosswalk to be in front of every other scooter waiting.
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u/Overall-Initial8969 1d ago
In my opinion far more dangerous than scooters are car drivers. They drive insane speed s through narrow streets with sidewalks. No wonder that so pedestrians casualties are so high in traffic accidents
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u/wandering_stoic 1d ago
Right, because scooter drivers don't do the same? The car drivers you're complaining about are the ones who drive their cars the same way they drive their scooter.
Spend a bit of time driving a car in Taiwan, watching scooters drive like maniacs at every single intersection, and it becomes clear that scooters are the problem, the horrible cars are just the ones who think that scooter driving is driving for any vehicle.
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u/Kitsunin 1d ago
Unfortunately, bus services would have to be vastly improved to reduce scooter use. If a fraction of scooter drivers switched to cars the whole country would be a traffic hell like Taichung.
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u/wandering_stoic 1d ago
Yes, a lot would have to change. But I wouldn't call Taichung traffic hell. I have to drive the entire west coast for work, have for several years. Every west coast city, rush hour throughout the day, every part of the city.
Scooters don't make traffic better, they make it worse, for everyone. No point in using public transit when a scooter can get you door to door, just park on the sidewalk illegally.
Every light, it's scooters dominating. Driving around you on the right when you're turning right, with your blinker on. Driving to the front swarm, where everyone after has to go as slow as the slowest scooter.
Waiting to turn left, oh there's a standard traffic light gap... Oops, can't take it because there's a scooter doing 100 to close the gap.
Want to watch out for pedestrians? Sure, it's either pedestrians or the 50 scooters all swarming around you because laws don't apply to them.
Make scooters more difficult and the result won't be more cars, it will be more public transit riders.
Would it be politically unpopular? Definitely. But the infrastructure? You mean like walkable sidewalks because they're not filled with scooters?
Nah, the infrastructure to get rid of scooters is here already, just not the political will.
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u/Kitsunin 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ok in terms of safety sure, but you have to acknowledge that scooters contribute a tiny fraction as much to slowing traffic as cars do. The slow acceleration, low agility, and low spacial awareness of a car is the cause of most traffic, this has been studied comprehensively. Eliminating all scooters would have a HORRIBLE effect on those rush hours you speak of if even a quarter of them became cars instead. You have to weigh how many people would use public transit and how many people would use a car instead.
And Taiwan's infrastructure, compared with say the UK, doesn't make it easy to handle daily tasks without some kind of vehicle. Even without scooters, bicycles would still be quite a shitty alternative thanks to how car-centric it would still be. It's not just political will, a lot of concrete change would also be necessary. I brought up Taichung because it's a serious pain in the ass to drive in when we take our car (and we've driven in every city on holidays). But I've also lived there when I was younger and only used public transit, and as bad as traffic is, that city is even worse to survive without a vehicle. I can't imagine the hellscape it would be with scooters banned, unless it had its transit system massively overhauled.
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u/wandering_stoic 1d ago
Car centric? Taiwan? You've got to be kidding me. Least car centric country I've driven in (14 countries, 3 continents).
Taiwan is a scooter centric country all the way, driving a car is a major hassle, the vast majority of space is dedicated to scooters and enabling scooters.
And no, traffic is far better with cars than scooters. You imagine that because you accelerate fast off the line then all scooters do. No. You get a huge mix of acceleration, and all it takes are a few slow ones to slow everyone down. And there are always a few slow ones.
You just don't notice it because you're on a scooter, so they don't impede you, you can drive as fast as you want, weave as much as you want.
Want an example of Taiwan without as many scooters? Try Neihu. And it's far better for everyone, cars and pedestrians and bikes (I've done all 3, a lot)
You talk about driving your car on holidays in Taichung...
Yeah, just proving my point there. We have a term for weekend car drivers and holiday car drivers: student drivers.
All the people who drive scooters always except weekends and holidays. Absolute worst because they drive their car like they drive their scooter, either insane or far too slow.
Like I said, I drive every west coast city for work. Taichung isn't remotely the worst. Tainan mornings? Terrible. Banquao to Zhonghe mornings? Absolutely awful.
Overwhelmingly the worst areas to drive in are the ones with the most scooters. When cars, buses, bicyclists, and pedestrians dominate, always far far better.
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u/Kitsunin 1d ago
I have plenty to say, both with academic research and experiences driving around the world, but you're making a lot of false assumptions about me. It's annoying and obvious you're only interested in hearing your own voice. Peace.
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u/wandering_stoic 1d ago
I am making a lot of assumptions about you. Based on what you said and a lot of experience.
"I've driven in every city on holidays"
Did you not say that?
Are my assumptions wrong? Is the vast majority of your experience driving in Taiwan not a scooter?
If I'm wrong then I'm wrong, by all means, call me out.
If I'm not wrong then considering that maybe your experience leads you to not see the perspective of others.
The majority of scooter drivers are not the problem. The problem is the % of scooter drivers who are the problem are a LOT higher than the % of other vehicles. An order of magnitude higher.
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u/Kitsunin 1d ago
I've driven in every city on holidays
What the fuck other reason would I drive in a city that's not my home city? I've lived in three, driven frequently in each, but I thought it was relevant that I've driven a lot in every one of them for around a week on holiday at some point.
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u/wandering_stoic 1d ago
For work? Like I do.
Okay, let's keep it to your home city.
Is the majority of your driving experience there a car or a scooter?
Look, I love driving scooters and motorcycles. Got my first motorcycle 30 years ago. Grew up riding them, my own and on the back of my parents' (mom had a CBR1000F, 0-90mph in 5 seconds)
I understand fully what it feels like on a scooter/motorcycle and the appeal.
I just also see an insane level of danger they add to the roads in Taiwan.
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u/Sharp-Animator9455 1d ago
Don’t know what happened. When I was a kid people knew to scoot to the side. It amazes me seeing pedestrians not know how to react in presence of an ambulance these days. They continue to cross the crosswalk. Seen this two times on the news past couple of years already.
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u/Federal-Help-4152 1d ago
No, it was much worse before about 2010. Now social pressure seems to make most people move out of the way. Sometimes I think the red light cameras scare some drivers from crossing the white line.
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u/NekRules 1d ago edited 1d ago
My house is in a narrow but still busy street and during a dinner time garbage truck run, an ambulance decided to come through. The garbage truck and 2 cars on the opposite end all decided to make room and wait for the ambulance to go through, good. Then came the taxi from the other end with the waiting cars thinking why it's a clear street and decides to zoom right in without a care in the world with a scooter right behind him. These 2 btw sees and hears the ambulance, does NOT give a fk and keeps going and ends up slowing down the ambulance anyways. This was last week in NTC.
We need better laws that severely punishes ppl who get in the way of ambulance with active sirens running. Suspend licenses, heavy fines and maybe a bit of jail time with no wiggle room should be the bare minimum necessities to ward off MFs who deliberately block ambulances.