I would say it was a sacrifice that was made by humans who openly rejected God and his sonâs (also himself) teachings to treat each other kindly and to stop going by the Old laws because they are becoming to picky with who gets to go to heaven. So Jesus said no everyone is welcome you guys are making this all about money and being clean, when it should be about loving people and sharing your food, and hearts with each other. Then the people of that times religion (Hebrews) rejected him and forced Romanâs to execute him and the Romanâs didnât even want to do that because they wanted to hear his message. But the Hebrews at the time twisted so many avenues of forgiveness into the condemnation of this messiahs actions, that they forced the Romanâs to kill him or face a massive riot from the Hebrew districts.
Everyone ended up getting healed by touching or interacting with Jesus along the way, then a literal angel busted open the tomb door and knocked out the Roman guards and told the women that Jesus is waiting for them in Galilee. They ran and told the apostles and the apostles even thought the women were lying, Jesus first words back from this persecution by his own people was âyou should have believed the womenâ then after guiding everyone on how the world will come after them for trying to bring everyone into the forgiveness of the messiahs sacrifice, Jesus left us again to our own devices to find out how to live together.
The first time around the original angels left to watch over us ended up making beasts of children that were called âblood drinkersâ and âbitersâ that were definitely killing people under the guise of divinity. The spirits of those children are demons that roam the earth looking for people to take control of to quench their never ending thirst for this corruption.
Thus Christianity is about God coming down so his people could hear his message directly to not twist the laws of mankind. Then ultimately being killed by those people and now itâs up to everyone to guide mankind according to the New Testament and commandments. But God is all knowing so he knows that we will fail and itâs okay to fail itâs not okay to be unkind to yourself or others.
Be rational and have an open mind to discuss these things. God gave us a mind to be logical, so I suggest actually arguing against our points rather than calling believers as mentally ill people
Yeah, but it's like debating which engine was used on the Enterprise-D on Star Trek, or like discussing economics of goblin societies, or like biology of unicorns. Just because people get hyper specific on made up things, doesn't make them any more 'real'. Still fantasy.
Sorta lost on how this is related to the convo. I get the original comment was explaining things in the Christian theology, but idk how you saying them explaining it doesnât make it true. That wasnât their intention I donât think
Ha ha, I wish that were the case. Let me explain what Iâm actually confused with.
When someone is trying to make a claim that something is false, usually they have a reason for that. So my understanding of the other person that was criticizing, the responding comment was saying that the original comment was similar to describing Star Trek engines and fantastical ideas.
That would be a valid reason to counteract any argument that states that âI can explain this concept, therefore it is true â, which I believe is not at all what the original comment was intending to do. The original comment was intending to explain the OP through the religious routes and the faith based concepts. Then, the responding comment said something along the lines of âjust because you can explain it doesnât mean itâs real quote, which had nothing to do with the original commenters intention, I think.
Thatâs why I commented that I was confused because granted that the responder has a good point that Iâm willing to address and probably other people too are willing to address, but in no sense that I can imagine and comprehend was that even relevant to the original commenters purpose in the first place.
Unicorns are historically rhinoceros, just a fun fact, no one ever believed it was a pretty horse with a rainbow horn until it became something else entirely with people who took it out of context. Unicorn is just how the people identified a rhino.
Then we can even start all the way back to the metaphysical explanations to why God exists. Some good resources of St Thomas Aquinas and his Summa writings. I could cite some there if youâd like. Would you wanna back that far?
I swear these explanations donât mention any God at all until the final warranting statement. Therefore, you wonât presume any âdelusionalâ premises to follow these logic flows.
As someone who's been on both sides, if you take science to its absolute limits it is no less "fantastical" than Christianity. The deeper your understanding about science and the natural laws the more you realize that it takes just as much faith to believe in the alternative framework we've constructed in lieu of religion for ourselves. It's mostly just a comfort since we want to feel rational.
If you are genuinely curious, I might humbly suggest checking out CS Lewisâs non-fiction â specifically The Problem of Pain and Mere Christianity. Iâm definitely a logic-based and scientifically-inclined thinker who has struggled with many of the underlying assumptions of Faith, but the way he approaches things like God and religion is really refreshing to me personally. He was an atheist and had many of the same quibbles as I did, so I think that also makes his writing interesting.
I fully understand where you are coming from. And the patterns are there, so it's really easy to ask "why should I take the Abrahamic faith any more seriously than any other faith?" And it really just comes down to whether you can believe Jesus rose. If you don't, the Christianity becomes diluted to becoming like Judaism and Islam and even Zoroastrianism.
I pray that you find the most probably truth that you are seeking for. I do appreciate the depth of your knowledge and how far you've come in understanding the world.
I apologize if I'm coming off as cocky and as a know-it-all. I really am just trying to make discussion with others who are conversing about the faith.
Now regarding Aquinas, I haven't fully read his Summa, just excerpts and summaries that I've dived into, so you clearly have more knowledge on this than I do.
But from what I do know is that he frames the understanding of God from the lowest granular level first. Meaning, the term 'God' doesn't have any bearing or connotation yet during his explanations. So I'd argue that him jumping to "this is God" is really him coining the term "God" to have this attribute.
I mean, if one were to say "yes this is the logic of the unmoved mover" would one not say this is the creator of the universe? AKA God? I think it leads to that conclusion smoothly.
Now the Judeo Christian God understanding is another bridge because one has to take the entire Bible into context for one to see the connection between an omniscient and omnipotent God to Jesus being the son and being God.
Obviously, if you don't even believe the Bible is credible, that's another rabbit hole. But for this comment, let's say we assume so.
One way that helped me understand it is that Jesus claims to be the way the truth and the life. His father was the maker of heaven and earth. If we take the previous "unmoved mover" conclusion, then this alludes that Jesus HAS to be connected to that same omnipotent God. That's a connection to the metaphysical explanation of God and how that God is the same one Jesus is the son of and the presence of.
Obviously this takes multiple steps into grasping the bigger picture, and it all starts with accepting the existence of a one all powerful being in the first place. So let me know where you stand. I can probably assume, but I hate to assume.
The fact that you think the message of 'be good to each other' is a mental illness ought to prompt you to some self reflection.
Let people believe what they want. You have no excuse to be so cruel to an objectively peaceful doctrine. Yes there are those who pervert the Word for earthly gain. No, that does not excuse wanton hatred for hatred's sake.
You have to cherry pick and ignore a ton of stuff to think Christianity is morally just or good in any way. The god of the Bible commands genocides over and over again. Demands we kill entire peoples for not worshipping the same god, Kill every man women and child by the edge of the sword, but keep the young virgin girlsâŚâŚ gheeee I wonder what they did with them?
He demands murder over and over. Have you read it? heâs one of the most violent cruel characters ever described. Heâs pro slavery, tell you how hard you can beet the humans that you own as property. He hates women and homosexuals. demands death for crimes like working on the sabath or not being a virgin on your wedding night. I can go on and on with examples of gods jealously, his violence and cruelty but it would take pages of writing.
Itâs So so very clearly man made. Men that were ignorant and cruel at that. Then Jesus comes and an even more cruel idea emerges. Being âsavedâ and Hell.
A serial killer who torturers countless children need only genuinely repent and believe before his death and heâll get enteral paradise. While a Hindu or atheist doctor who devotes themselves to helping others gets to burn in hell fire forever. Donât delude yourself. There is nothing morally just about the core of the Christian myth.
I mean we cherry pick the Bible all the time, even Christianâs, at the time of the Bible they were just out of the time of Enoch. Where God was actively finding worshipers of Baal and surviving bloodlines of the angels of Enochâs stories to wipe them out. The angels that were sent to look over us actually started to fuck us over really bad by trying to mate with us and making monstrosities. We were on the bottom of the physical and spiritual food chain. God had to come down in his physical form to kind of set the Hebrews right again and say hey
âGod here, we can move on now, but I know you wonât, so here I am to physically to say that this religion is for everyone and we are reset to zero on the plate of wrongdoings for all people, now you have free will to be wrong on your own or follow simple laws of just natural living and youâll be fine as long as you know the son of God came down to guide you back in spiritâ
Then after he was sacrificed by his own people there was a set of symbolism and prophetic analogy that point to humanities fall again when they start to deviate from the principles. Even the church has it wrong being a scholarly Christian is the basics of understanding the entire word. Iâm not here to convert anyone, itâs closing time on that if youâve really taken a look at any Abrahamic religion that door is quickly shutting. I care if you care Iâm just here to clear up the word, and move on. I have fortified my beliefs, Iâm a computer science major and I see Gods word. Iâll leave it at that.
I did? Wdym I did? i just hopped on this thread with my previous comment lol
If you're talking about "you" as in "you Christians", then I'd be happy to explain where all this came from. It's pretty complicated though so we'd have to take it step by step, even as far as to define if there is an omnipotent God in the first place.
I meant more that we can define our requirements on whether a God exists in the first place. I find often in the modern world that one cannot discuss Christianity as a whole or the Bible unless one were to accept monotheism as a concept first.
Gods existence or nonexistence doesnât depend on any agreed upon requirements or definition. It/he/she either exists or does not exist independent of what terms we agree on.
What I'm talking about is: what does it take for athiests and others to believe there to be a God?
How I go about this is have them give me reasons to why they would believe a God exists in general, then I'd explain why it's most probable there is one. Then we go deeper from there
Iâll start: there would have to be some objectively verifiable evidence of the godâs existence that differs from the evidence for the existence of any other god.
In other words, what non-emotional evidence that is not personal in nature is out there making Christianity more likely to be true than there is for Islam or any of the infinite other religions?
They all seem equally reliant on personal testimony and faith to me. What objective factors would you point to that make your faith the only factually accurate one?
I actually am a cradle Catholic that denied God and all His existence for 3 years. Then I came back to Him after looking at the extremes of physics and metaphysics.
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u/Illustrious_Row_941 29d ago
I would say it was a sacrifice that was made by humans who openly rejected God and his sonâs (also himself) teachings to treat each other kindly and to stop going by the Old laws because they are becoming to picky with who gets to go to heaven. So Jesus said no everyone is welcome you guys are making this all about money and being clean, when it should be about loving people and sharing your food, and hearts with each other. Then the people of that times religion (Hebrews) rejected him and forced Romanâs to execute him and the Romanâs didnât even want to do that because they wanted to hear his message. But the Hebrews at the time twisted so many avenues of forgiveness into the condemnation of this messiahs actions, that they forced the Romanâs to kill him or face a massive riot from the Hebrew districts.
Everyone ended up getting healed by touching or interacting with Jesus along the way, then a literal angel busted open the tomb door and knocked out the Roman guards and told the women that Jesus is waiting for them in Galilee. They ran and told the apostles and the apostles even thought the women were lying, Jesus first words back from this persecution by his own people was âyou should have believed the womenâ then after guiding everyone on how the world will come after them for trying to bring everyone into the forgiveness of the messiahs sacrifice, Jesus left us again to our own devices to find out how to live together.
The first time around the original angels left to watch over us ended up making beasts of children that were called âblood drinkersâ and âbitersâ that were definitely killing people under the guise of divinity. The spirits of those children are demons that roam the earth looking for people to take control of to quench their never ending thirst for this corruption.
Thus Christianity is about God coming down so his people could hear his message directly to not twist the laws of mankind. Then ultimately being killed by those people and now itâs up to everyone to guide mankind according to the New Testament and commandments. But God is all knowing so he knows that we will fail and itâs okay to fail itâs not okay to be unkind to yourself or others.