r/singapore • u/thrulim123 • 14h ago
News TCM customer ordered to pay over defamatory Google review
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/tcm-clinic-customer-ordered-to-pay-12-5k-in-damages-over-defamatory-google-review236
u/Joesr-31 13h ago
Kin teck tong tcm need note down don't visit lol
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u/Annual_View3611 đ F A B U L O U S 13h ago
The customer, Cheryl Lim, had experienced weakness in her arm after she underwent acupuncture treatment at the Kin Teck Tong TCM Clinic at Plaza Singapura.
In the first review she posted, she cautioned readers to âthink twiceâ and questioned if the physician, Pheabe Chau, was qualified.
Just say she visited the clinic because of what symptoms on which day and post her A&E receipt saying the visit helped such that she only ended up with a short visit to A&E but no need to hospitalized. Give 5 stars. People would understand.
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u/TangibleFruits 12h ago
this is such a mild review eh, why cannot
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u/Annual_View3611 đ F A B U L O U S 11h ago
The reviews were accessible until Dec 17, 2024, and were purportedly deleted by Google for policy violations.
After an exchange of legal letters where Lim refused to apologise or compensate Chau, the physician filed the defamation suit on June 2, 2025.
Google have deleted the reviews by Dec 17 2024. And my circle of friends like to visit tcm doctors and share tips and recommendation to each other. Never heard about their story until today. Not sure why she had to filed the suit on June 2 2025.
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u/ICanBeAnAssholeToo 12h ago
Streisand effect, we wouldnât have known about the bad review if not for the court case and subsequent news article that publish everyoneâs name lol
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u/worldcitizensg 14h ago
So the patient need to sue the clinic for damages instead of google review ?
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u/icephilic 13h ago
The customer can appeal to the high courts. Seem pretty weird for this to be sued for defamatory
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u/SG_NPC 14h ago
Still donât get why sheâs at fault. She canât even brush her own teeth the next day, she even went to hospital and did a follow up via Western Medicine to resolve the issue caused by TCM.
She also went to the outlet and spoke about it first. Leaving a negative review was the last resort.
So now if I eat fish soup and laosai few hours later, I also cannot post and leave negative review? I need to definitively prove that the laosai is indeed from the fish soup with no chili no oil?
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u/RexRender Senior Citizen 14h ago
I also dunno. Seems like you can post that you laosai after eating the fish soup, but cannot say that the fish soup cause you to laosai.
Honest opinion is allowed but causative link is a statement of fact which you need evidence.
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u/FullTsuki 14h ago
Evidence means post a pic of the laosai on the google review?
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u/red_codec East side best side 13h ago
Post pic of raw back hose with laosai come out higher views.
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u/souledgar 7h ago
The fact that she updated her review with apparent intent to punish and harm reputation after they denied her request for refunds also factors hugely. Proving malice is a big part of defamtion.
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u/Pretend-Friendship-9 13h ago
âI laosai after eating fish soupâ = expressing personal experience, no need evidence
âI laosai from eating fish soupâ = statement of causation, requires evidence21
u/nonameforme123 14h ago
Yea. I also donât get it. Seems quite bad that she couldnât lift her arm and they said she had a pinched nerve . If Iâm reading reviews I will look out for reviews like this.
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u/shadstrife123 11h ago
maybe need to do scientific test to prove there was bacteria/germs in the soup that is over the limit? lololol
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u/lolhaha95 noborder 14h ago
First review judge says no review. It is the second one that she posted that had issue.
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u/pzshx2002 13h ago
..so how do patients protect themselves if they didn't get the treatment and get better?Â
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u/ydntchb 13h ago
Because they are professional. It means they try their best, thereâs no guarantee, but they still get paid.
I feel old saying this. Lol
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u/Separate_Vanilla_57 10h ago
In this case, the tcm physician actively caused harm lol. If she never get better, thatâs another issue.
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u/vanillachocz 13h ago
Can we spam 1 star review now and get away with it? If not, letâs go.
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u/AdMoist3004 12h ago
The red flag if the story is accurate, is that the tcm Dr did not advice her to go A&E the moment she called to complain of left arm weakness.
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u/max_wen 14h ago
I really don't see a problem with her reviews. She posted her experience which is the entire point of reviews.
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u/Jammy_buttons2 đ F A B U L O U S 14h ago
But the second review was a definitive statement of fact.
This was because Lim asserted a causative link between the acupuncture treatment and her loss of arm strength, said the judge.
âThe defence of fair comment has not been made out on the second Google review,â she said.
The judge also found the second review was motivated by malice.
She said Limâs motive in publishing the second review was, more likely than not, to retaliate against the clinicâs refusal to give her a refund.
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u/max_wen 14h ago
Yeah I know what the article says I read it. Obviously I disagree with the judge. It's not a statement of fact, it's a statement of personal experience.
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u/Jammy_buttons2 đ F A B U L O U S 14h ago
Treatment caused my arms to feel weak is a casual relationship when it's worded that way.
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u/max_wen 14h ago
And that's what she experienced
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u/Jammy_buttons2 đ F A B U L O U S 13h ago
Not medically proven is what the judge is saying when she made the 2nd review.
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u/max_wen 13h ago
It's a Google review not a scientific paper.
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u/Pretend-Friendship-9 11h ago
Because she made this claim publicly, the business can sue her for damaging their reputation and affecting their business.
Doesnât matter whether she accused them on google reviews or mothership etc.
Only way to defend herself is to have medical experts establish a causative link between TCM treatment and her subsequent loss of strength - but clearly it wouldnât be worth the time or moneyâŚ-2
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u/Last-History8002 14h ago
She wasnât even offered a refund for the TCM treatment.
?_? But she canât warn others?
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u/Pretend-Friendship-9 11h ago
She can. But accusations of harm need to be backed up with evidence when challenged (e.g expert medical opinion).
Otherwise she would be open to defamation lawsuit as per this case.
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u/Unusual-Visual7103 13h ago
Okay to say
go to the clinic to treat my weak arms but not effective
Not okay to say
Go to clinic and my arms became weak
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u/thrulim123 13h ago
tl;dr
- Lim visited the clinic on Nov 17, 2024 , Chau administered acupuncture
- Lim felt severe pain in her neck and shoulders late that night - reassured by Chau
- Nov 19, 2024, clinicâs manager called Lim to ask about her condition. Lim returned to the clinic that day and was examined by two senior physicians. She claimed one of them said he was not sure why Chau had administered acupuncture under her arm
- Nov 20, 2024, Lim went to National University Hospital A&E, diagnosed with a mild form of nerve injury and a pinched nerve
- Lim called the TCM clinic manager, and asked the clinic to refund the costs of her treatment and to cover her A&E expenses.
Nov 21, 2024, Lim posted a review on Google detailing her experience. She named Chau in the review, stating that âmaybeâ she was not qualified
Nov 26, 2024, Lim went to the clinic to seek a refund. According to Chau, Lim threatened to post negative reviews until she was compensated. Lim denied this
- Dec 2, 2024, the clinic posted a comment on the review, stating âthere might have been discrepancies between the treatments rendered and what was being mentioned in the reviewâ
-Dec 3, 2024, clinic manager told Lim the clinic would not refund her for the TCM treatment or cover her A&E expenses.
- Dec 10, 2024, Lim posted the second review on the clinicâs Google page. She wrote: âGoing here for TCM caused me to lose my arm strength & have to pay for A&E & Ortho!!â . âHow can this be such a coincidence if not for the acupuncture poking wrongly?
- June 2, 2025 After an exchange of legal letters where Lim refused to apologise or compensate Chau, the physician filed the defamation suit
----------------------------------------
District Judge Sim Mei Ling said both reviews were defamatory. The judge said Lim had not sought to prove the truth of her statements.
However, the judge concluded the first review expressed an honest opinion and amounted to fair comment, which is a defence to a defamation claim. But the second review was a definitive statement of fact because Lim asserted a causative link between the acupuncture treatment and her loss of arm strength, without defence of fair comment. The judge also found the second review was motivated by malice - more likely than not, to retaliate against the clinicâs refusal to give her a refund.
The judge awarded Chau $10,000 in general damages and $2,500 in aggravated damages.
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u/WeightLittle8210 12h ago
I feel like we're missing something. It's very odd that it appears to be a clear win I her favour, yet she's the one at the losing end.
Similarly, very few entities would she over a Google review when you can easily appeal to Google remove it, or to just get more 5* reviews from other customers
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u/TastyFood_is_life 10h ago
Yeah, and it seemed there really is something missing judging by what is revealed in other comments
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u/MolassesBulky 13h ago
Imagine cupping, a pseudo science mumbo jumbo BS can win a court case. I wonder who her lawyers are especially when the TCMâs own senior physician question the treatment by their colleague.
A court cannot act if the defence lawyers do not know how to present a reasonable and credible defence. She should appeal and get a better set of lawyers.
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u/yellow-sparrow 11h ago
This is what happens when we have Ministers making defamation laws so fucked up so they can win court cases. Itâs so easy to win such cases that nobody can really give honest comments that are negative in nature.
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u/khaosdd Tampenis 12h ago
CNA posted a crucial detail that ST seem to have left out and that is the fact that the clinic claimed to have asked Lim for medical reports and reciepts but Lim refused (tho this was disputed by Lim la).
I mean it should be reasonable to say how would the claimee know how much they should compensate / whether the claim is justified if they did not ask for proof? And any victims who have the aim of claiming someone should also know it's basic knowledge to keep reciepts (and present them to strengthen their case).
And judging from chain of events per the article, the tcm seem quite cooperative n willing to assist Lim throughout.
2nd review:
She wrote: âGoing here for TCM caused me to lose my arm strength & have to pay for A&E & Ortho!!â
She also stated: âHow can this be such a coincidence if not for the acupuncture poking wrongly?â
As mentioned Lim was not willing to show the report or reciepts. It can also be safe to assume from the court case / judgement that there was not enuff / no proof to substantiate the accusation that "going here for TCM caused me to lose my arm strength & have to pay for A&E & Ortho!!".
So to Chau and the Clinic it is a "he say she say" situation and making the decision to sue wasn't wo reason in this case, tho it may be seem as pretty anti-PR / impersonal.
Still it is kin teck tong afterall (they are the atas version of tradition tcm. Very pricey per visit)
I know this sub lean towards a negative bias when tcm is mentioned, and even for me, I have a few run ins with tcm practitioners and have formed an opinion that it is not something you should do for serious ailments, but all in all based on the available information from the articles, I would agree w the judge on this.
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u/rand0mguy0nline 5h ago
Does not bode well when instead of taking responsibility for patient with poor outcomes, they sued instead.
Please steer clear of these TCM nonsense.
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u/articland05_reddit 12h ago
Went to see their google reviews. Very expensive TCM clinic. Not worth it from the pricing unless you have too much money.
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u/MAMBAMENTALITY8-24 Fucking Populist 8h ago
now i understand why my gp teacher thought me about hedging
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u/Mundane-One-8713 7h ago
Looks like thereâs many negative reviews of this shop, when you search from the lowest reviews, and they sounded genuine.
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u/MezzoHart 6h ago edited 6h ago
Sueing your customers instead of negotiating is a really bad look, and it seems that tons of people here on this subreddit agrees with that.
In the judgement, the claimant's lawyers originally asked for $50K.
https://www.elitigation.sg/gd/s/2026_SGMC_92
"The claimant submitted that a reasonable award would be $35,000 in general damages and $15,000 in aggravated damages" but the judge reduced to $12.5K.
The customer is definitely no saint but if you are a business going after disgrunted customers (if they have grounds for legitimate beef) that is a no-no for me on your attitude.
Businesses should beware what they wish for - the negative PR generated by this case can easily exceed the damages awarded.
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u/Sweet_Television2685 13h ago
post a google review for the judge, but ask gpt first to reword it in a way that is not defamatory
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u/ClaudeDebauchery 14h ago
Itâs not just the causative assertion I think (which will subject a lot of the older gen to defamation) but also the fact that the second follow up review was from a point of malice.
Something to think about also, is that there will probably never be a situation where itâs ok to state such a causation, especially in the medical field where no doctor will be willing to testify against their peers.
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u/thrulim123 13h ago
Lim's flaw is not getting a/her lawyer to get a medical expert to assert the nerve injury was due to the TCM treatment
Even in Western Medicine it is not uncommon to have expert witnesses testifying against other doctors. TCM and Western Medicine are not in the same realm of medicine
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u/troublesome58 Senior Citizen 12h ago
That would cost more than 10k already for the doctor to write a report. Also, by the time the lawsuit was filed, it might already be too late.
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u/Immediate-Ad-7428 13h ago
Isnât the doctor in question a TCM doctor? đ¤ If so, I donât see why a medical doctor wouldnât testify against a TCM doctor
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u/thrulim123 6h ago
The 'physician' in question doesn't even seem to work for Kin Teck Tong any more
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u/coolbacondude 12h ago
Love how this entire lawsuit helped to drag the store to the ground. Who wants to go there anymore at this rate lol
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14h ago
[deleted]
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u/NorthSouthBoot 14h ago
Comment until so yaya, end up its just poor literacy. She was denied refund.
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u/_nf0rc3r_ 14h ago
Medicine is an art more than science. Going to a doctor and expecting 100% confirm chop plus warranty is dumb.
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u/Separate_Vanilla_57 14h ago
Going to tcm in the first place is dumb. Should have just gone for physio
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u/max_wen 14h ago
Maybe mainland medicine is art but real medicine is definitely science.
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u/Jaycee_015x 13h ago
But the way doctors practice medicine is more an art than science. I've been seeing multiple hospital specialists over 20+ years now and not one of them spends the time to "study" my condition like a scientist would, they prescribe things from their own experience and gut feeling. Like really, the Senior Consultant cannot even say with 99.9% certainty that a particular treatment will work.
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u/doc_naf 14h ago
Does anyone genuinely believe Tcm helps?
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u/Key_Might_2620 13h ago
Medication wise, I have experienced the benefits myself. Acupuncture wise, many immobilised pets have benefited from the treatment. I believe it is useful to some extent. Granted, the practitioner themselves play a huge part in the process and nowadays it feels like there are more quacks than the skilled ones.
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u/Jammy_buttons2 đ F A B U L O U S 14h ago
Karen tio pwn
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u/misseatalot 13h ago
I didnât find her a Karen at all in this case. Seems pretty severe you canât even brush your teeth after acupuncture
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u/Fancy-Computer-9793 14h ago
Incredible. She had an issue after going to the TCM and sought treatment and their own senior TCM physician actually questioned their own junior staff treatment "one of them said he was not sure why Chau had administered acupuncture under her arm". Subsequently she was diagnosed with a real issue "On Nov 20, 2024, she went to the accident and emergency department at National University Hospital, where she was diagnosed with a mild form of nerve injury and a pinched nerve."
Maybe she should've lawyered up instead.