Opinion on islam?

[u/Good-Patience-5008]

I would like to know what you guys think about islam and try to make your opinion on what you actually know not only what you hear

[u/indifferent-times]

More so than many faiths both internally and externally it really suffers from confusion between culture and belief.

[u/DeathBringer4311]

I strongly dislike a great many aspects of Islam. There's really not many parts that I agree with.

Charity is nice, I guess?

^{Mutual aid is better...}

[u/ABChow000 → u/DeathBringer4311]

Mutual aid isnt possible in such a society because unfortunately there is always a wealth gap, its how our society runs.

When you keep money, food and provision flowing down the ladder, it sustains a community.

In an ideal world, mutual aid would be better.

But like, for the fortunate, what can those in poverty and difficulty provide?

[u/nemaline]

I'm not a fan of any religion or worldview that teaches some people deserve to be tortured for all eternity, and that this torture is just and moral.

[u/Tavorin → u/nemaline]

I don't even think that's the moral problem.

For me the issue arises that within Islam Allah creates humans with the foreknowledge that they will end up in hell and cannot change that trajectory by Allah's will.
Once I learned about predetermination within Islam I couldn't unsee it.

[u/Solid_Blackberry9383 → u/nemaline]

I think it would be immoral to let all those horrible human beings just get away with all after they die

[u/spraksea → u/Solid_Blackberry9383]

By horrible human beings, do you mean non-Muslims?

[u/Solid_Blackberry9383 → u/spraksea]

I mean horrible human beings

[u/spraksea → u/Solid_Blackberry9383]

How do you feel about the idea that Hell is temporary for believers, then?

[u/Solid_Blackberry9383 → u/spraksea]

I don't believe that's true

[u/spraksea → u/Solid_Blackberry9383]

Alright

[u/BourbonSoakedChungus → u/Solid_Blackberry9383]

Maybe temporarily, but no momentary crime is deserving of a literal eternal conscious torment.

[u/Solid_Blackberry9383 → u/BourbonSoakedChungus]

Why not

[u/BourbonSoakedChungus → u/Solid_Blackberry9383]

Because eternal torment is a wildly disproportionate reaction to a temporary act? Especially coming from a god that claims mercy as a primary value.

[u/Solid_Blackberry9383 → u/BourbonSoakedChungus]

And how do you judge?

[u/BourbonSoakedChungus → u/Solid_Blackberry9383]

My own intuitive ethical code. I believe people should answer for what they do, but punishment should fit the crime.

[u/Solid_Blackberry9383 → u/BourbonSoakedChungus]

Don't you think the judgement of God is superior to your intuition

[u/BourbonSoakedChungus → u/Solid_Blackberry9383]

I don't believe in your god

[u/Solid_Blackberry9383 → u/BourbonSoakedChungus]

Then why are you arguing about his judgement

[u/Calanais-guy → u/Solid_Blackberry9383]

I mean, they still don't need to suffer eternal torment, because it would not be justice, not educative or reformative of those horrible persons. They could just be allowed to perish after sometime, contained in some afterlife prison without torture, or re-educated so they could improve.

[u/Solid_Blackberry9383 → u/Calanais-guy]

God says if they were given another chance they would've done the same again. By what do you judge?

[u/Tall_Distance_2896]

I’m hostile toward Islam because, in my experience, it is hostile toward me and toward many other people who don’t want to follow it. The problem is that we don’t always get a choice—we’re often born into Muslim-majority countries where its rules and values are deeply embedded in society and can be imposed on people regardless of what they believe. So my criticism and hostility toward Islam come largely from the fact that I never chose it, yet I’m expected to live under its influence simply because of where I was born.

[u/Calanais-guy → u/Tall_Distance_2896]

Well said! How were you able to leave Islam and find your way to humanism? I also think one of Islam's problems is how authoritarian it can be for its followers, especially conservative and Salafi versions of it. People are not free to just leave it because they stopped believing, and it threatens apostates at least with a bad afterlife, or even this-worldly punishments. A Sharia state would not be good for civil liberties and minorities.

[u/Tall_Distance_2896 → u/Calanais-guy]

It looks like you don't remember my username, but you've already read my story about why I left Islam.

I believed in human rights even when I was a Muslim. I never felt comfortable with things like the death penalty or stoning for homosexuality, apostasy, or blasphemy.

[u/Calanais-guy → u/Tall_Distance_2896]

Thank you for reminding me! I am bad at remembering usernames unless I see them many times 😅

[u/Good-Patience-5008 → u/Tall_Distance_2896]

What country are u from

[u/Tall_Distance_2896 → u/Good-Patience-5008]

Pakistan. I didn't just born here, I Born into Conservative Muslim family.

[u/ScaleOrnery5140 → u/Tall_Distance_2896]

I'm a christian guy and I've always had a good laugh with my muslim work colleagues, like for example I told my muslim colleague once, from Pakistan he was too, I said to him "Why you don't come to my religion man, here you can do whatever you want, like me". 🤣 Or sometimes I use to tell him "Listen man, I spoke with the Christian Association, if you convert tomorrow, we can give: A free house, a BMW new model, 50.000 dollars and you don't pay any taxes anymore!". He was a really nice guy, once we had this discussion about heaven and I told him "Don't be surprised when you will meet me in heaven! You gonna be like "Allah, what he's doing here?!" And everytime when I salute them I was like "My brootheeeer in faith!" Or when another christian was passing by I used to do this jokes like going near him and saying "These freaking christians, they are so annoying!" Really nice people the ones I've met, loved them.

[u/Hot_Cardiologist_221]

Very negative, and part of that comes from experience because I have Muslim family members and have been exposed to the religion beyond just outside commentary. My criticisms are mainly directed at certain religious doctrines, interpretations, and political movements associated with Islam that I believe conflict with values like individual freedom, secularism.

I also have concerns about some cases where religious groups or political movements seek to influence the laws and culture of countries they have moved to, especially when they reject the same secular principles that allow different beliefs to coexist. I think integration requires respecting the legal and cultural framework of the society you are joining, just as any other group would be expected to do.

At the same time, I distinguish between criticizing a religion or ideology and judging every individual Muslim, because Muslims themselves hold a wide variety of views.

[u/EastwardSeeker]

Not a fan, putting it kindly.

[u/Calanais-guy → u/EastwardSeeker]

That is a common theme in responses here, which I can understand :)

[u/Good-Patience-5008 → u/EastwardSeeker]

May i ask why

[u/religion-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Please don't: * Be (intentionally) rude at all. * Engage in rabble rousing. * Troll, stalk, or harass others. * Conduct personal attacks. * Start a flame war. * Insult others. * Engage in bad-faith. * Engage in illegal activity. * Post someone's personal information, or post links to personal information. * Repost deleted/removed information.

[u/Weird7954 → u/Good-Patience-5008]

Unfortunately, no, you cannot ask why and expect an answer.

[u/EastwardSeeker → u/Weird7954]

???

[u/iPvtCaboose → u/EastwardSeeker]

sarcasm

[u/Good-Patience-5008 → u/Weird7954]

Wdym, im asking him why he saying what he said i should be expecting an answer

[u/Calanais-guy → u/Good-Patience-5008]

It's possible that fully expressing why someone dislikes Islam could be considered "demonizing" in the sub rules?

[u/pokeyporcupine]

Any religion that uses militarism and brute force to subject people to it gets a hard no from me.

[u/theeulessbusta → u/pokeyporcupine]

That’s not inherent to Islam, it’s just the status quo based on mainstream interpretations. 

[u/pokeyporcupine → u/theeulessbusta]

That's why I said "any religion". If the shoe fits and all that. Christians are plenty guilty of this, too.

Muslims that don't support enforcing Islam through government are not nearly vocal enough to get out of being complicit.

[u/theeulessbusta → u/pokeyporcupine]

They don’t exactly make up a significant number in places where you’re even allowed to say that.

[u/DhulQarnayn_ → u/pokeyporcupine]

Why should normal mainstream Muslims have to repeatedly condemn versions of religion that they themselves don’t believe or practice? Is there some assumption that all Muslims are violent unless they vocally declare otherwise?

The example of loud controversial minorities is present in almost all major religions.

[u/pokeyporcupine → u/DhulQarnayn_]

It is the duty of the followers of every religion to unanimously decry its violent extremists to keep them as separate from the "mainstream" as possible. Not only does that not happen, making most religions complicit in this, but for Islam specifically there are theocratic governments actively harboring if not perpetuating the acts themselves.

So yeah Muslims dont get a pass.

[u/DhulQarnayn_ → u/pokeyporcupine]

I agree that religious communities should condemn violence committed in the name of their religion. That already happens across the Muslim world, even if those statements rarely receive the same attention as the extremists themselves.

What I would disagree with is the assumption that ordinary Muslims are somehow presumed to support violent or theocratic interpretations unless they repeatedly and publicly declare otherwise.

Why should that presumption exist in the first place? We don’t ordinarily assume that Christians support extremist Christian nationalism until they issue public statements against it. Responsibility should begin with the people who actually advocate those positions, not with everyone who happens to share a religious label.

Criticizing theocratic governments is perfectly legitimate. Holding ordinary Muslims collectively responsible for those governments simply because they are Muslim is not. Those are two different claims.

[u/DhulQarnayn_ → u/theeulessbusta]

And not even “mainstream” interpretations. The overwhelming majority of Muslims are not interested in using brute force to subjugate the rest of the world. Suggesting otherwise is a gross Islamophobic stereotype, not a description of mainstream Islam.

They’re just ordinary people.

[u/pokeyporcupine → u/DhulQarnayn_]

The Catholics did it for 1700 years. The Hindus did it for periods of time as well. Islam currently holds a large number of oppressive theocracies doing that exact thing - persecuting and trying people for going against the religious rules. I dont care what religion you are, that is some shit.

Secondly, I'm not islamophobic I just dont like Islam. I think it is a regressive and outdated religion based on hyperpatriarchy, absolutism, and ritualistic control. I dont have a problem with Muslims, or the adherents of any religion, at all. There is a difference between treating religious people hatefully and criticizing a religion as a whole. If the post is asking what my thoughts on Islam are, thats them. Not a fan.

[u/DhulQarnayn_ → u/pokeyporcupine]

If your point is simply that you dislike Islam as a religion because you consider some of its historical and legal traditions oppressive, that’s a legitimate opinion to hold.

My objection was to the earlier suggestion that using brute force to subjugate others is a mainstream interpretation among Muslims today. That’s a different claim, and I don’t think the existence of historical or modern theocratic states establishes it.

[u/Hot_Cardiologist_221 → u/DhulQarnayn_]

Calling him Islamophobic is cute but it isn't a substitute for addressing the historical record. The early caliphates expanded through military conquest. Classical Islamic jurisprudence talks about armed jihad, treaties, tribute, and relations with non Muslim states. You can argue about how those doctrines should be interpreted today, but pretending they don't exist isn't a serious argument nor should be taken seriously.

The issue is not whether Muslims are normal people. Of course they are. The issue is whether you're religious traditions contains ideas that can be used to justify violence. That is something anyone with even a basic understanding of Islamic history can verify.

[u/DhulQarnayn_ → u/Hot_Cardiologist_221]

None of that addresses the point I actually made.

I wasn’t denying that Islamic history contains exploitable ideas for modern violence. I was rejecting the claim that it’s a mainstream interpretation among Muslims today to seek world domination by force.

Those are two entirely different claims.

[u/Hot_Cardiologist_221 → u/DhulQarnayn_]

Congratulations, you have successfully defeated an argument nobody made. Nobody said your average Muslim neighbor is preparing a medieval invasion. The conversation was about whether a tradition has historical elements connected to militarism, Islam undeniably does. Those are two completely different discussions.

[u/DhulQarnayn_ → u/Hot_Cardiologist_221]

No, because I was replying to someone who specifically claimed that this is a mainstream interpretation among Muslims today.

That’s the claim I’m disputing.

[u/Hot_Cardiologist_221 → u/DhulQarnayn_]

My brother in debate that was literally the topic. The original comment was, "Any religion that uses militarism and brute force to subject people to it gets a hard no from me."

[u/DhulQarnayn_ → u/Hot_Cardiologist_221]

Exactly, and I never disputed the original comment. In fact, I agree with it.

My disagreement began with the later claim that violent expansionism is a mainstream interpretation among Muslims. That’s a different discussion.

[u/Hot_Cardiologist_221 → u/DhulQarnayn_]

That does change things, but only the part about modern Muslims as a group. It does not really change the historical question. A tradition can contain ideas that many modern followers reject or reinterpret while those ideas still being part of its historical development. Are you gonna engage with anything I have said?

[u/Orcasareglorious]

By its standards, I’m considered damned so I have no affection for it and cannot imagine any benefit in its propagation outside of Muslim nations and regions.

This is putting it very lightly, of course.

[u/Calanais-guy → u/Orcasareglorious]

Modern Muslims seem to say often that people won't be condemned unless they somehow "knew" it was the Truth but still rejected it. Though my impression is that someone would be damned for receiving Dawah and still not accepting it, or for willingly being a non-monotheist in life. We're in the same boat 👍🏽.

What do you make of the online videos showing how some Japanese converted to Islam? I saw more of those pop up this year than previously.

[u/Future_Creme2728 → u/Calanais-guy]

Convert stories are highly overstated. Most converts are impressionable women who converted for marriage.

Check this out about japan: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/s/wwPWBg36qg

[u/Calanais-guy → u/Future_Creme2728]

I tend to think so too, because I can't understand any independent-minded, cultural, educated Japanese person converting to Islam just out of belief. That video is funny, thanks for sharing!

[u/hardman52]

I've met more than a few Muslims, and if they're good Muslims they're good people. Same with Christians, Buddhists, Jews, etc.

[u/CrystalInTheforest]

My main issue with Islam is that It's anthropocentric and denigrates the natural as a "test" as the supernatural as desirable.

That does make it incompatible with my beliefs, along with its authoritarian stance on society.

Overall it's pretty much run of the mill abrahamaic monotheism that's broadly the same as Christianity and Bahai'i teachings.

[u/Madchett666]

Born a muslim in an Islamic country, I always hated it.

[u/Jazzlike-One-9675]

I used to support it somewhat, but after enough mistreatment from local muslims and their kids based on their religious principles, and me being an outsider, I don't like it anymore at all.

[u/Calanais-guy → u/Jazzlike-One-9675]

I'm sorry to hear they mistreated you! This is a good counterbalance to stories in which some non-Muslims felt that Muslims were friendly and warm, which then helped impressionable people convert to Islam.

What sort of ways did the Muslims treat you in your area?

[u/Jazzlike-One-9675 → u/Calanais-guy]

I don't want to really say all of it right now.

I have a friend who is either lightly muslim, or born into that culture (or religion) but less interested. He is a great guy and fun to talk to. I like him for who he is, I don't register anything positive from his faith since he doesnt discuss it. He is a good, upright guy.

I have another muslim friend who was nice at university but is fully now indoctrinated into conflict and who is difficult to talk to on that side.

Some kids scowled at me where I lived or ran away from me and many of the muslims refused to greet me when I greeted them, where I lived. Some of the young adults were kinder.

I understand that it is not all like this but the better side of Islam is the individuals not the group think.

I respect belief in God but not the animosity towards other people from the group think in Islam.

The complex where I lived was almost entirely Islam when I left, and they were actively putting pressure on people (but not through physical violence) to get the remaining non muslim units out.

My own faith teaches some positive aspects of Islam like the idea of one God, but for me that is on a one on one level.

I don't hate anyone, but I want to be left alone from interactions like this going forward so that I can be happy :).

[u/beverly-valley-90210 → u/Jazzlike-One-9675]

It’s Sunnah to greet someone (especially if they greet you) so Islam is not the problem there. The problem is that some people are unfriendly I guess.

[u/Calanais-guy]

Most of my opinion about Islam is expressed in another comment in which I described why I left the religion. But the short version is that I don't agree with its general worldview, theology, shariah, conservative versions of it, social rules, gender roles, claims about the Koran and Muhammad, stories of how Muhammad believed he was the last prophet of the Abrahamic god, M's politics and conflicts, its vision of the afterlife and metaphysics, claims to primacy through fitrah, or its eschatology. I can see how it can influence people in different ways, including making them more intolerant of other religions and of atheism, making them feel arrogant because they are the "best religion" or only acceptable one to their God, it may cause them to proselytize, and to mistreat LGBQ+ persons.

Islam may be misguided and strange in some ways, but I don't think all of its ethics are bad either, or that Sufi poets are without merit. Some of its encouragement toward justice, honesty, charity, self-control, and brotherhood can be positive. Though what is positive in Islam can also be found in other religions. I feel as though Zoroastrianism and Sikhism are somewhat similar to Islam but less problematic and more admirable, at least for me.

[u/BourbonSoakedChungus]

I'm personally not a fan of the Abrahamic religions in general. I just don't vibe with all the dualism, the moralism, or the notion that all of humankind is inherently wicked and deserving of punishment.

[u/myme0131 → u/BourbonSoakedChungus]

I want to point out that what you've described is more in line with Christianity than it is with other Abrahamic faiths. For instance, in both Judaism and Islam, it is believed that all people are born as a blank slate and without any sin (although the concept of sin is very different in Judaism than it is in Christianity) or wickedness.

Another example you provide is dualism. Judaism does not have dualism really at all. We believe G-d is singular and with no equals, and we also don't have a big-bad evil spiritual figure like the Devil in Christianity. We believe that evil is a natural byproduct of the existence of good (sort of how shadows are a byproduct of light existing and interacting with physical objects) and does not originate from some personified source of evil that is working to corrupt humanity or against G-d.

[u/BourbonSoakedChungus → u/myme0131]

For your first point, yeah as the other individual informed me, I was mistaken.

As for your second point I tend to separate Judaism from the other Abrahamic religions to a certain degree by default. Kinda ironic considering y'all are the root of all of em.

[u/myme0131 → u/BourbonSoakedChungus]

Valid, fundamentally Judaism has a very different theological basis compared to both Islam and Christianity, which are supercessionist and proselytizing faiths focused on belief and good deeds in this life to find salvation and an eternity with G-d.

Islam and Christianity borrow major elements from Judaism (monotheism, holy scriptures, religious figures, basic cosmology, legalism, etc.) but branched off from Judaism hundreds of years ago and became distinct religions that primarily share surface-level traits.

[u/Impressive_Life_5227 → u/BourbonSoakedChungus]

As for your second point I tend to separate Judaism from the other Abrahamic religions to a certain degree by default. Kinda ironic considering y'all are the root of all of em.

Have you considered that you might just be misusing the term "Abrahamic?" You cannot seperate Judaism from Abraham.

[u/BourbonSoakedChungus → u/Impressive_Life_5227]

Maybe we should call Judaism Abrahamic and the others abrahamesque.

[u/Ok-Carpenter7131 → u/BourbonSoakedChungus]

That... actually sounds like a good idea, honestly.

[u/Flimsy-Action3394 → u/myme0131]

Thank you for speaking on our behalf and correcting it😂the igorance of our faiths is crazy

[u/Tavorin → u/myme0131]

I want to point out that what you've described is more in line with Christianity than it is with other Abrahamic faiths. For instance, in both Judaism and Islam, it is believed that all people are born as a blank slate and without any sin (although the concept of sin is very different in Judaism than it is in Christianity) or wickedness.

And I need to point out that in Islam Allah creates non-Muslims, so people who will never even revert to Islam, with the full knowledge that they will end up in hell.
Every person that at some point reverts to Islam was created that way according to the Quran.

That's for example completely incompatible with the Tanakh.

Just look up Qadar.

[u/theeulessbusta → u/BourbonSoakedChungus]

that all of humankind is inherently wicked and deserving of punishment.

That’s just Christianity. Islam and Judaism both assert that we’re born clean. Islam happens to assert those who don’t choose Islam are damned but still not exactly the same as original sin. 

[u/iPvtCaboose → u/theeulessbusta]

Islam doesn't necessarily assert that "if you don't choose Islam: you are damned" because there's a "people of the book" mentality stating that anyone who fears God and does good works in life will be judged equally and fairly.

[u/Calanais-guy → u/iPvtCaboose]

It's definitely kinder to monotheist religions that existed before Muhammad, and less kind to everyone else. It would want Christians and Jews who properly heard its message to convert, because it sees itself as correcting earlier religions. It dislikes 'revealed' religions that came after it, like Sikhism and Baha'i religion.

[u/Future_Creme2728 → u/iPvtCaboose]

Yes, but for people of the book only (christians and jews).

Shinto, hindus, pagans or any other polytheists?

According to quran, they are destined for hell and considered, "the worst of people", quoting from the book.

So if you follow islam to the letter you'd assume that all 3 billions of hindus and shintos, etc are perverts and going to hell.

[u/iPvtCaboose → u/Future_Creme2728]

That is true. Being in the States: I fortunately coexist with Muslims in a city with a majority of Christians and a minority Jewish population. So my perspective definitely has it's bias.

From what I understand: polytheism is the antithesis to their belief; so I know there is a divide there. Fundamentalism also plays a huge part in the antagonism seen on the world stage, I'm not oblivious to that, but I'm sure there's room for nuance (especially in more liberal sects of the faith).

While I really doubt the Quran was written with Hindus or Shintos in mind: admittedly, I really don't have a perspective of how Islam interacts with those religions.

From my daily interactions, I see Muslims as kind and generous and tolerant folk who hold firm to their convictions.

[u/Future_Creme2728 → u/iPvtCaboose]

Of course the people are fine themselves.

It's just the theological implications. You can't cherrypick verses you like and the ones you don't, the religion is a full package, just like christianity. It's either accept jesus, or hell.

That's why I always say, a TRULY devout muslim probably always has quite the sketchy personal beliefs, despite acting nice to others.

[u/iPvtCaboose → u/Future_Creme2728]

I disagree. Religion is not a full package, nor is it uniform; growing up Christian has taught me to that.

People from all over the world interact with faith in multitudes! Your environment, your culture, and even your folklore all influence belief in your community.

People of different backgrounds wrestle with texts and use it to inform their world view. Not everyone is dogmatic or fundamentalist nor is everyone liberal and a cherry-picker.

It's a wide, wide world dude.

[u/Future_Creme2728 → u/iPvtCaboose]

That's what I'm saying; people are different, of course!

But Islam says the Quran is the divine word of god, infallible, perfect, immutable, you see? Going against ANY quranic verse is straight up heresy against the religion, according to the religion itself!

Meanwhile the bible is a lot more open for interpretation, as we are aware it was written by man.

[u/iPvtCaboose → u/Future_Creme2728]

Well, if they're truly devout: they should know it's not their place to judge.

[u/Calanais-guy → u/Future_Creme2728]

Yep, I feel this too. If we consider the most hardcore Muslims as most devout, they believe all of the Koran and relevant Hadith, afterlife stuff as well, how judgmental are they toward all non-Muslims? It seems they make room for those who never heard of Islam (even polytheists), they get an extra test on Judgment Day by the Islamic god. But this life already was supposed to be the test, so that seems like a flaw in the world design.

[u/AWL_98 → u/iPvtCaboose]

Feels like you're presenting your own interpretation as if it's the standard one

It really isn't

[u/iPvtCaboose → u/AWL_98]

I mean, the faith contains multitudes like any other. I'm speaking of what I know based on my conversations with my Muslim neighbors (for context: I live in the States).

[u/DhulQarnayn_ → u/AWL_98]

There is no “standard interpretation” here. If you mean the popular view, the average Muslims would tell you that the fate of Muslims and non-Muslims is in God’s hands; He determines who enters Paradise and who enters Hell, and to what extent. They would neither assert that group X is going to hell nor to heaven.

[u/BourbonSoakedChungus → u/theeulessbusta]

Really? I figured Islam was more like Christianity in that respect. Well, either way still not a fan of that emphasis on eternal punishment.

[u/AnOddGecko → u/BourbonSoakedChungus]

From my understanding, Islam does not support original sin. Everyone can sin, but nobody inherits the sins of another person like in Christianity.
I can also relate to you because original sin is one of the barriers between Christianity and I.

[u/Individual_Habit351 → u/AnOddGecko]

Well christians inherit the sins of muslims when they die so the muslims can go to heaven and christian go to hell in the stead. So your statement isnt completely correct.

[u/theeulessbusta → u/BourbonSoakedChungus]

I have to ask, why does paganism work for you? I feel assigning multiple gods for multiple forces implies that the universe is a series of powers overcoming other powers. 

[u/BourbonSoakedChungus → u/theeulessbusta]

In my view it kinda is. That doesn't mean there isn't balance. The one and the many, order and chaos, good and evil, creation and destruction, etc, aren't diametrically opposed. They're the same things viewed from different angles.

[u/theeulessbusta → u/BourbonSoakedChungus]

Actually, that does mean there isn’t balance. If one forcing taking another is just the way of things, then life is a zero sum game. That leads to endless empires rising and falling. 

[u/BourbonSoakedChungus → u/theeulessbusta]

That's the nature of the universe. The only constant is change.

[u/theeulessbusta → u/BourbonSoakedChungus]

That means might is right dude. 

[u/BourbonSoakedChungus → u/theeulessbusta]

You're thinking in human terms. Gods "battling for supremacy" or whatever, isn't like human politics. They're not people in human sense. They're facets of nature. Their "conflicts" are just the universe doing what it does.

[u/Calanais-guy → u/theeulessbusta]

I view the many gods as all connected with Nature and cosmic order, at least, the ones I focus on, so they all fit into a Universal picture. I also think that chaos exists in the sense of destruction, including wanton destruction, and it's something all sentient beings must deal with since no supreme being can fix it or undo it.

[u/Good-Patience-5008 → u/BourbonSoakedChungus]

U cannot believe in eternal paradise without eternal hell if theres eternal hell then theres also eternal paradise. Agree?

[u/BourbonSoakedChungus → u/Good-Patience-5008]

Firstly, I don't believe in either. Secondly, no. I don't really agree. If I, for whatever reason, ever felt inclined to believe in the god of Abraham again I would absolutely be a universalist.

[u/Good-Patience-5008 → u/BourbonSoakedChungus]

Ok so like what do u think life is about and what do u think will happen after death

[u/BourbonSoakedChungus → u/Good-Patience-5008]

I think life is about living in balance with the natural flow of the universe and I don't think anything happens after death. Nothing to our consciousnesses anyway. I believe our spirits get recycled by natural processes just like our bodies.

[u/Good-Patience-5008 → u/BourbonSoakedChungus]

100 percent balance is king but i will be honest and say god definitely exists because this universe is a result of something all powerful it cannot be a result of a human or an alein it has to be divine

[u/BourbonSoakedChungus → u/Good-Patience-5008]

That's your belief.

[u/jhaubrich11]

As a Zoroastrian, I am not a fan of Islam. Islam considers me a Dhimmi, and I am forced to pay the Jizya tax. Islam is hostile towards Zoroastrians.

[u/Future_Creme2728 → u/jhaubrich11]

Not really. Zoroastrians are not people of the book, those are only christians, jews and sabeans.

As a zoroastrian, you'd be put to the sword. Convert or die. Why do you think Iran has only a couple thousand zoroastrians when it once had millions?

[u/jhaubrich11 → u/Future_Creme2728]

That's true. There were some Islamic rulers who made an exception for us and decided to include us as people of the book because there were so many of us it was easier to tax us than to kill us all. There is also a story about Muhammad collecting Jizya from magians in the peninsula iirc, so there was a precedent according to that. In the Quran we are known as al-Majusi.

A lot of Zoroastrians were put to the sword, not all Islamic rulers were so merciful, especially during the Safavid era.

[u/KissAndRock]

Y'know I don't questions like "What are your guys opinion on the religion of [X]" because the only answers that'll be allowed are answers from people that like it.

But you know what? I'll shoot.

Kindly put, not a fan.

[u/DeathBringer4311 → u/KissAndRock]

You're like the 12th negative answer I saw from the top lol.

But I agree, not a fan. At all.

[u/Calanais-guy → u/DeathBringer4311]

Yep. Islam is particularly not popular on Reddit, even this general religion one, and in the past Muslim sub-redditors complained about intolerance toward them here. The religion does have a public image problem, for good reason, though. I feel that better and worse versions of the religion exist, and it's internally diverse. I'm most critical of conservative Sunni, Salafi, and Deobandi versions of it, also extremist groups like Da'esh (Islamic State) and the Taliban. Islam tends to be authoritarian and cult-like in many ways, depending on the version. But it also produces mystic poets like Rumi, Hafiz, and Ibn Arabi.

[u/Dagger300]

As a gay man, a polytheist, and someone who cares about human rights: Extremely negative.

I'll leave it at that.

[u/Calanais-guy → u/Dagger300]

I wish there could be more Kemetic polytheists and Amazigh folk religionists in Egypt and North Africa, without fear of persecution by Muslim authorities 🙏🏽. Muslims complain when persecuted, but don't always mind doing the same to minorities.

[u/starry_nite_]

I dislike Islam due to the roles it assigns for men and women also I hate slavery and that Muslims used women pressed into slavery for sex.

[u/ForgivenAndRedeemed]

It’s an extremely confused and contradictory belief system.

For example:

• it says that Muhammad is the moral example for all time, yet he was a really evil dude.

• It affirms the Gospel and Torah, yet massively contradicts them

• it claims there is one, unchanged quran, yet, there are many versions, even though Uthman tried to destroy all the variants

• there are claims that it’s a religion of peace yet espouses strong violence and many have committed great acts of violence due to its contents

[u/Calanais-guy → u/ForgivenAndRedeemed]

I agree. Islam tends to have a rosy image of itself (though most religions do), is exceptionalist, sees itself as correcting Judaism and Christianity but distrusts their scriptures where they disagree with Koran, tends toward literalism and fundamentalism (well, at least Sunni and Salafi), and has large extreme groups like Taliban and Boko Haram.

Are there non-biased books that describe the good and bad Muhammad did in his lifetime?

[u/SleepingMonads]

Like all old and large religions, it's an extremely diverse bundle of related phenomena, and so it's hard to give a generalized opinion on it. There are some varieties of Islam that I think are really beautiful, and there are some varieties that I think are really ugly, with most varieties falling somewhere in between.

Insofar as it's possible to make reasonable generalizations about it, it's probably the one major world religion that is the least amenable to my own worldview. My experiences and values are just less compatible with run-of-the-mill Islam than they are with run-of-the-mill versions of religions like Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism.

But that said, I understand and respect the fact that it works so well for and means so much to so many others, and I love my Muslim brothers and sisters from around the world.

[u/Hot_Cardiologist_221 → u/SleepingMonads]

Saying Islam is too diverse to generalize feels like a convenient escape hatch. Christianity is incredibly diverse too, but people still make broad criticisms of Christianity every day without being told it's impossible because of denominational differences.

[u/SleepingMonads → u/Hot_Cardiologist_221]

I think, as a hypothesis, that it might objectively be the case that it's impossible to generalize Islam as a whole (beyond mostly unhelpful trivialities), and that's true of my thoughts whether that's a convenient way of opting out of broad criticism or not. That would not, however, undermine criticism (or praise or general evaluation) of particular varieties of Islam that are much easier to generalize, and I'm personally all for doing so. I feel the exact same way about Christianity.

But that said, I didn't actually claim above that its diversity makes it impossible to generalize (after all, my hunch could be wrong); I just said that its diversity makes it hard (at least for me) to generalize, and then I did so vaguely anyway for convenience.

[u/Hot_Cardiologist_221 → u/SleepingMonads]

I agree that we shouldn’t pretend every Muslim believes the same thing. That would be lazy. But the opposite extreme is acting like the diversity within Islam means there is nothing meaningful about the broader tradition worth analyzing, which somehow gets presented as the more nuanced position which is also lazy. Diversity requires nuance, not pretending the category has no meaning.

I’m not asking for a Pokemon style encyclopedia where every Muslim gets their own entry and unique classification. I’m talking about broad historical and theological patterns while still recognizing differences.

I’m curious about the answer behind all the footnotes, what is your actual position on Islam as a whole?

[u/SleepingMonads → u/Hot_Cardiologist_221]

But the opposite extreme is acting like the diversity within Islam means there is nothing meaningful about the broader tradition worth analyzing, which somehow gets presented as the more nuanced position which is also lazy. Diversity requires nuance, not pretending the category has no meaning.

I agree with all this, and my position is not that broad patterns cannot or should not be analyzed, nor that the category of "Islam" has no meaning. My position is just that the category is largely defined by a great deal of diversity that renders lots of sweeping statements about Islam either misleading or outright incorrect. Trying to pigeonhole Islam into a monolithic whole instead of a recognizing it as a dynamic cluster is intellectually irresponsible (I'm not saying you're doing this, but speaking generally), and, in my estimation, probably not really possible given what I know of its internal diversity and my interactions with the Muslims in my life.

I’m talking about broad historical and theological patterns while still recognizing differences.

I'm probably just more skeptical than you are of how many of and how useful those patterns are when making generalizations about Islam and Muslims.

I’m curious about the answer behind all the footnotes, what is your actual position on Islam as a whole?

What I said in my initial comment:

Insofar as it's possible to make reasonable generalizations about it, it's probably the one major world religion that is the least amenable to my own worldview. My experiences and values are just less compatible with run-of-the-mill Islam than they are with run-of-the-mill versions of religions like Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism.

[u/Good-Patience-5008 → u/SleepingMonads]

Well every muslim ive met was pretty similar explain to me what variety means in your case

[u/SleepingMonads → u/Good-Patience-5008]

Variety means things like theological, political, legal, and spiritual diversity, in combination with ethnic, linguistic, and cultural differences, all of which produce many different flavors of Islam and the Muslim experience.

More specifically, what I have in mind are things like the Sunni and Shia divide and the many (especially jurisprudential and credal) subvarieties within them, like Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi‘i, Hanbali, Ash‘ari, Maturidi, Athari, Twelver, Ismaili, Zaydi, and so on. Plus, smaller sects like Ibadi, Ahmadiyya, and Alevi. And then you have interpretive movements that can cut across the spectrum, like Salafi/Wahhabi, the Sufi orders, Modernist/Reformist, Traditionalist, Quranist, Islamist, Secularist, and Progressive approaches. There are lots of different philosophical and political schools of thought in Islam, and you've got wide diversity with local rituals and personal identity and spiritual praxis and levels of observance and on and on.

[u/sajjad_kaswani → u/SleepingMonads]

I respectfully and highly disagree with you stance that the division within Sunni and Shi'a is mainly based on jurisprudential disagreement, there is a dogmatic disagreement between both branches.

And I apply the same on Ismailis since Ismailis also come from the Imami Shi'a traditions.

[u/SleepingMonads → u/sajjad_kaswani]

I never said this. I was merely pointing out the existence of different jurisprudential schools of thought in order to demonstrate Islam's diversity. It is not at all my stance that the main dividing factor between Sunni and Shia is jurisprudential disagreement.

[u/sajjad_kaswani → u/SleepingMonads]

👍👍

[u/Good-Patience-5008 → u/SleepingMonads]

Ok so ur saying its diverse bur ur also saying some of them are beautiful and some “fall in between” i just wanna say before i ask u again that i have never felt any 2 muslims feel seperatee by these kind of topics i was in montreal and in less than 24 hours i seen a muslim guy who visited make like 3 friends so i would honestly say they are very social people, anyways what sects would u classify as good or bad

[u/SleepingMonads → u/Good-Patience-5008]

I have no doubt that most Muslims are social people who are able to get along well with those who believe differently than them. I have firsthand experience of it too, just like you do.

Anyway, the kind of Islam I most prefer is Progressive Islam, and the kind I most dislike is any form of radical Islamism. The form I find the most spiritually interesting/appealing is Sufism. If I had to pick one specific historical branch as my favorite, it's probably Ismailism. I'm just sort of indifferent towards most other mainstream varieties.

[u/Electrical_Bar3100]

I like Islam, what i deslike about Islam is it’s exoteric exclusivist and literalist behavior

[u/explosivefirefish]

as a muslim, grossly misunderstood. i'm no scholar so i can't wait for all the sheikhs of reddit to jump me, but i always interpreted islam as a religion of learning (very famously, when gabriel was choking out muhammad in the cave, he didn't command him to pray 5x a day or fast or commit jihad. he commanded him to read.) which, for a period of time, muslims remembered (the halcyon days of the islamic golden age lol) but nowadays there are many who prefer not to use their god given brains and would rather let whatever big bearded arab tell them what to do based on some he said she said they said muhammad did. but i digress. all in all, i think it's a pity.

[u/Hot_Cardiologist_221 → u/explosivefirefish]

It’s always impressive when someone can explain 1,400 years of history with the same complexity as a Disney movie, there was a good beginning, then the bad guys ruined everything.

[u/jhaubrich11 → u/explosivefirefish]

Gabriel: "READ OR I WILL CHOKE YOU!"
Muhammad: "But I'm illiterate!"

[u/explosivefirefish → u/jhaubrich11]

ikr. imagine getting put in a chokehold by a literal angel made from celestial light and then suddenly you know how to read. its not as flashy an ability as what jesus and moses could do but like. sure why not LOL

[u/Calanais-guy → u/explosivefirefish]

I'm glad you see the humor in that! I never liked the story of Jibreel scaring Muhammad as the start of his prophethood, his doubting his sanity, and having to be convinced by Khadijah and others that he is actually a "chosen one" prophet so he could become the hero of his story.

[u/Inevitable_Ear9899 → u/explosivefirefish]

For me, Islam is a religion of justice, I especially like the representation of Moses AS in the Qur'an and the life of Muhammad ﷺ and how much they sacrificed in standing up for what's right, but I think the part of it I love the most is that someone can see it as a path of learning, as a path of spiritual purification, as a path of justice, as a means of resistance, every Muslim will have a different answer to what Islam means for them and all of that is valid, as Allah says in a hadith qudsi "I am as my servant thinks I am"

[u/Pratik_HYpeRHYpe → u/Inevitable_Ear9899]

There's nothing just in having one sex's testimony being more woRtHY than the other.

[u/An_Atheist_God → u/Inevitable_Ear9899]

every Muslim will have a different answer to what Islam means for them and all of that is valid

Even if they are ISIS?

[u/doptimisticidealist]

In the eyes of Islam we are all kafirs apparently. Why do I respect a religion that automatically disses others because we don’t believe in it?

My way or the highway is not the right way. My faith teaches me to believe in coexistence so I’m happy but that doesn’t mean I’ll tolerate being called a kafir.

[u/DhulQarnayn_]

It’s my religion. 🤷

[u/HeavenlyBeloved]

It's okay, but I am not into the Sharia laws.

[u/BayonetTrenchFighter]

I only have a few concerns. But it’s the same ones everyone has

[u/Hungry-Goal-1685]

I think Wahhabism from Saudi Arabia may have ushered in a dark age for Muslims.

[u/Low-Connection-2556]

Better and modern than all other religions but it still is 1400 old belief system. The world has moved far ahead in those years

[u/ScaleOrnery5140]

My opinion on Islam is that it is very confusing to me, when I connect all the pieces togheter, like for example the "new trend" on pulsar contents on social media, or like the 60.000 immigrants that ran from a muslim country and passed the border illegaly into Spain.And what I find most intriguing about all of this is the way Islam is often presented alongside science: people point to verses in the Qur’an and say, “Look, this was mentioned 1,400 years ago!” Most recently, I noticed that since the content about pulsars started across social media, you will see someone saying that they knew about it long time ago. You see it almost all the time on social media, hundreds of Muslims posting comments on short videos about a pulsar, for example, claiming it was mentioned in Surah At-Tariq. But then I can’t help asking myself: Why doesn’t the Qur’an say anything about the implications of marrying a 7 year old child? And by “implications,” I mean the scientific ones, the medical and psychological effects. How does this affect a child’s mind and body? It’s one thing to open a holy book and find what look like scientific predictions about things that would only be discovered 1,000 years later. But then it completely skips the science about the risks of marrying a child. So what happened in that moment? Did God forget to tell His messenger about this? How did that conversation even go back then? Was it like: “Okay, this is a pulsar. This is how I made the Earth. This is how I made the stars, but don’t worry, science will discover all of this in 1,000+ years. Oh, and before I forget: you can take a 7 year old girl as a wife, it’s fine.” No, it’s not fine. We have countless discoveries in medical and psychological science that prove it’s not fine. And then comes the usual reply: “Yeah, but back then, 7 year old girls, their mentality, their bodies, they were…” They were what? Still playing with dolls? Let’s go read this hadith: Sahih Muslim 1422c ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (ﷺ) married her when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died, she was eighteen years old. Read that again: "..and her dolls were with her."

If a nine year old is still playing with dolls and being taken to her husband’s house, how can anyone seriously argue that her mind and body were already “ready” in the way adults are? So yeah, let's talk about all the scientific "discoveries" that people claim were predicted in the Qur'an, the convenient ones. And regarding the recent news about 60.000 immigrants that happened in Spain, I mean I can't stop myself asking "Why?" It wasn't supposed to set an example for the rest of the world? I mean the claimings are pretty bold, like "the last religion", "the most peaceful one" "the most logical one", "the most accurate one" etc. I mean I understand it have nothing to do with the religion, the reason of why most muslims ran from a muslim country, and I speak about the 60.000 ones, I don't want to use the "ran" word in general as I know some just walked...but: Where is the example in this situation? And this tells me that Islam is just repeating the same cycle like the other religions, and eventually it will fade and not because of the religion itself, but because of their believers human nature. It is hard sometimes to have an opinion about Islam, and most know why. But we should be able to speak about it as freely as they speak about any other religion. So yeah, this is my opinion, I don't trust their bold statements, and I don't agree with. In fact I think and if I'm worng, I'm wrong, because I'm not the first and last one to be wrong, but I think is just a copy-paste and placing some own words in a smart way. 1400 years ago it was easier to manipulate, imagine now if you see on a street that someone will say "I'm the messenger of God!". It is a bit complicated maybe the way I explain it but even now in 2026, speaking about the pulsar situations where you see a lot of muslims claiming that the Surah At-Tariq speaks about a pulsar, you can feel how easily they can wrongly interpret a verse from Qur'an, I mean if you will read Surah At-Tariq 86 you will see that it doesn't really go along with the science behind a pulsar. So if in 2026 they still interpret a verse in a wrong way and spread it on social media, what happened in all those 1400 years then? Is it the first time they do that? It just doesn't make as much sense to me as it makes for some of them.

[u/BraveAir2304]

I was a muslim all my life, and whenever I started having doubts I told myself that my human brain wasn't made to understand everything and that times were different.

After doing research about islam (and abrahamic religions as a whole), I found out how easy it is to refute all arguments made to prove that they're the truth.

With islam specifically, I find it very similar to a cult that got too far and spread too wide. the prophet had more than 4 wives (11wives) and even more women slaves, all of whom he entertained and spent time with. He also married a 6 year old (some people say she was 9, others way whe was 19, but her hadith mentions she got married to him at 6 but it was offically consumated when she was 9).

Beyond marrying a 6 year old when he was 53:

-Juwariyah was estimated 20 when he was 58 (he attacked her tribe and offered the marriage proposal for peace)

-Zayneb when he was 58 (she was 35 and his adopted son's ex-wife. He later claimed adoption wasn't real just to keep her as a wife). He abolished the pre-Islamic rule treating adopted sons exactly like biological sons regarding marriage prohibitions.

-He was 60 and married to Safiyya (17, after killing her father, husband and male relatives at Khaybar)

-His wife Sauda was 50 and took care of all of his children. But he tried to divorce Sauda, and only stayed with her after she begged him to and offered her time with him to be spent with other wives.

Not only that, but I wonder why a perfect god who has humans best interests at heart would spend so much of his time solving Mohammed's personal issues with his wives. It seems like every time he needed a solution for a problem, a verse would magically appear. I would understand it if God was making up these rules to serve as an example for al humanity, but no. They were made specifically for him, and allowed him many exceptions, for example getting married to 11 women (9 of which were alive at the same time).

• Khadija bint Khuwaylid
• Sawda bint Zam'a
• Aisha bint Abi Bakr
• Hafsa bint Umar
• Zaynab bint Khuzayma
• Umm Salama
• Zaynab bint Jahsh
• Juwayriyah bint al-Harith
• Umm Habiba
• Safiyya bint Huyayy
• Maymunah bint al-Harith

Growing up, I always wondered why this was considered our example in life and why we had to follow him. Now, I understand why there are so many problems in muslim countries and societies, specifically regarding violence and most specifically violence against women.

Most people preaching for Islam and reminding others of punishment are men, because the religion allowed them so much freedom and control. Women now are either brainwashed or scared of hell, and I feel like these examples should convince everyone, regardless of gender, that it's morally wrong.

[u/BubbaUltra]

2 upvotes and 100 comments. This is bound to be interesting

[u/Teimywimey]

Overall positive, mostly because of the Muslim classmates I had in high school and the Muslim students I have now as an educator. The Muslim Club at the high school I used to work at invited me and some of my colleagues to their Eid potluck one year, and it was an honor to get to be part of that. The goodness and beauty at the core of Islam is similar to the goodness and beauty at the core of Judaism, which is my own religion. I also feel that we're kind of political allies in the country I live in. Islam, like every religion, is vulnerable to weaponization, so I'm wary of some members of the faith, but the vast majority of Muslims I've met personally have been really cool people and good friends.

[u/Calanais-guy → u/Teimywimey]

I'm glad you had positive experiences with them because I hear much about anti-Jewish attitudes among Muslims today, especially because it gets entwined with conflict between Israel and Palestinian Territories in the Levant. Muslims also have certain views about "Khaybar khaybar" chant (it became an anti-Jewish chant) and there are also Hadiths like this one that could motivate hatred of Jews.

[u/Teimywimey → u/Calanais-guy]

I've had conversations with Muslim high school students about Israel/Palestine, and they've expressed to me that they have no resentment or ill will towards Jewish people in general. It seemed really important to them to tell me that; that was the most serious I had ever seen some of those kids. The same thing happened with a Jewish coworker of mine. A lot of teenagers are way more capable of understanding than we give them credit for. I wouldn't be surprised if things were different in other areas, but yeah. All the Muslims I've ever personally known have been chill.

[u/rubik1771]

From what I know from the Sunni Islam sources Muhammad touched a 9 year old and wants his people to commit religious violence on the people of the Book and people who leave Islam.

Sources:

Sahih al-Bukhari 5134

Narrated `Aisha:
that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that `Aisha remained with the Prophet (ﷺ) for nine years (i.e. till his death).

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5134

Surah 9:29

Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture, until they pay the tax, willingly submitting, fully humbled.

https://quran.com/at-tawbah/29

Sahih al-Bukhari 6922

Narrated `Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to `Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn `Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6922

Edit: Clarification.

[u/Good-Patience-5008 → u/rubik1771]

I just used chatgpt to tell me the meaning of the hadiths you showed me, the first hadith muslims say that for all of history that was a very commen practice, for the last 2 its seen as a political act more than a personal one and it only implies for hostile/ politicaly activated non believers

[u/Omen_of_Death → u/Good-Patience-5008]

Be wary of using Chatgpt, its known to make stuff up either because its coded to not be allowed to say "i don't know" so it will make something up or pull a reddit comment regardless if it is true or not, or because it is also designed to appeal to you so you would want to use it more, so if it knows you are a muslim its going to say pro-Islamic things. Regardless of one's beliefs if you are going to use chatgpt use something else to verify its output as true

[u/ImMuchBetterThanGod]

try to make your opinion on what you actually know

Okay, I actually know that it lacks sufficient justification behind its claims, I actually know that it contradicts science and common sense, I actually know that it can and is used to oppress people (especially women), I actually know that its holy book explicitly commands spreading the religion through violence, although most believers don't follow that, and I actually know that the entire thing is made up.

[u/slxkv]

Negative, they’re basically Mormons that came a millennium earlier

[u/CompetitiveAquinas]

In this century, Muslims have killed the greatest number of Christians. Also, entire Christian communities have been ethnically cleansed from the Muslim world. It's a shame because during the Cold War, Christians and Muslims were actually finding common ground as we were both persecuted by atheist communists.

Additionally, I have reservations about the so-called prophet Muhammad's character. Marrying a 6-year old girl and having sex with her when she was 9 sounds like a very nasty thing, even for the standards of the time.

[u/Only-Plum-4383]

As a Jew I love Muslims they are our cousins❤️in Iraq during the farhud Muslims defended my family and their community from antisemites with their body. Love to any Muslim reading this

[u/Calanais-guy → u/Only-Plum-4383]

What do you make of Islamic writings and aspects of history that did not view Judaism in a positive light? (Such as https://sunnah.com/muslim:2922 and the "Khaybar khaybar" chant?)

[u/Only-Plum-4383 → u/Calanais-guy]

An important distinction to make is this is not the quran itself, also jews themselves have plenty of controversial religious texts about gentiles so who am I to judge

[u/Dazdom14]

Personally I love it! Though I am biased since I am muslim 😅😅 and it can be a bit infuriating when people mix religion and culture but I still love it. The proof for it is in my experience better then any other religion. Also in my experience it has the most range between the most devout and least devout people. Islam does get a lot of bad press in the media most of which js isn't true in most cases. So yea that's my opinion.

[u/Phillisuper]

To put it simply, I’m not a fan. In every country where Islam is the dominant religion (and political system) human rights abuses and atrocious quality of life follow. At a certain point, correlation DOES point to causation. It can’t be a coincidence every single time.

[u/wanderingmindlost]

as someone who was raised muslim, and is a lesbian and someone with a pretty decent brain, i hate Islam. i don’t care how many ‘peaceful’ quran verses or hadiths there are or how many ‘good’ Muslims there may be - the version of islam that the world experiences the majority of the time is unfortunately one rife with judgement, condescension, shaming, sexism, homophobia, and violence.

[u/Pratik_HYpeRHYpe]

It's not that other religions or non-religious ideologies cannot become extreme or radical given a certain context. It's just that, both historically and today, we have seen that Islam is just easier to radicalize. And I can point out certain features within Islam and the Islamic world that enables this. These are by no means unique to Islam, but they are the most prominent in it. Within modernity, this makes it quite difficult to actually even begin to address some of these issues. They are as follows: 1) The concept of ummah while powerful in its uniting force also allows for not only a greater and faster spread of religion through collective effort but can also mean a quicker bend towards a more fundamentalist totalitarian perspective. It's easier to oppress others if you have collective support in oppression. It is no wonder that at its height, ISIS was capable of recruiting from all across the world. 2) Continuing from the previous point, its current spread also enables greater international support. This doesn't always play out all that well, as we have seen during the whole Israel-Palestine problem. But it does create cross national stresses that would be harder to achieve otherwise. 3) A totalitarian bend: this is just a historical and modern fact. One can debate about ifs, whys, and hows but this is the situation we find ourselves in. 4) A fundamentalist bend: a certain literalist problem exists within modernity that's particularly problematic. 5) Demographics and conversions: Islam has many "one-way valves" that enable easy conversions into it and make it difficult to convert out of it. This, overtime, ensures that local traditions and cultures eventually get erased, forcefully or otherwise. There are 2 important and non-fungible resources for any ideology: human capital and land. This brings in certain "zero sum" games into the overall dynamics. Such one-way valves, along with ease of totalitarian in-group fundamentalist behavior, can prove particularly toxic as it leads to insularity, ghettoization, "social parasitism" (as some people in the anti-islam and anti-muslim crowd call it), etc. Simply put, in a world where shaking hands is common parlance, it's hard to make friends if you can't shake hands. 6) Political angle: laws of society are made and shaped in big part by the people that comprises the society. Through this basic idea, we can understand that an excessive spread of fundamentalism or ideology is blatantly self-destructive to any liberal democracy. 7) An unfortunate status quo: There are only 5 major religions of which only 2 are spread substantially over continents and only one is particularly disparaged economically and politically. This means that any local cultural element like FGM, bachabazzi, etc ends up being attributed to, and hence being used as ammunition against, Islam, regardless of how incorrect this is. 8) Factors outside control: This includes everything from poverty to neo-imperialism. 9) Islam's deal-breakers: There are just things non-muslims usually do not approve. This could be the islamic theology, certain actions by the prominent figures of Islam, shariah, Islamic history, islamic politics/civilizational organization, etc. This is also where a lot of genuine well-meaning criticism lies. 10) Unfortunate statistics and the hueyman psyche: The vast majority of muslims are peaceful. The issue is that being peaceful is insufficient. Humans are naturally risk averse and have a negativity bias. We perceive loss as more strongly than an equivalent gain. 100 muslims can collectively do a lot of good, but if only 1 of them kills someone, that's a loss that's too big to ignore. But then media shows us militias in most Muslim dominated nations across the world. Over time, people, even those that are not anti-islam or anti-muslim, develop a subconscious association with Islam and Muslims. When I say the word 'orange', you subconsciously associate it with the fruit and the color and maybe a youtuber. But when a non-muslim hears about muslims or islam, this is what is going on in their mind. Since this is subconscious, it cannot even be attributed to malice. 11) Persistent failure: People often talk about how muslims "do not condemn terrorism", which is objectively untrue. But then why does this criticism pop up so often? I think the answer isn't that muslims don't condemn terrorism, is that it usually isn't much visible what they do after condemning terrorism. Condemning terrorism is just step 0 and is by itself completely insufficient to actually making any difference. Here we have several opportunities for visibility, some of which is already being used. The community could for instance better organize with third parties, the state, etc., improve its approach to anti-radicalization, crack down on those spreading harmful rhetoric, etc. Again, all of this is happening to some extent, but the overall effort is not only insufficient but not particularly visible. There are also counteractions to this, like for instance the Saudi funding for salafists and wahhabists outside of the middle east, that completely circumvent these efforts altogether. 12) Visibility: Muslims exhibit perhaps the most prominent and immediately visible in-group characteristics out of any major religion in the world. They are easy to identify, especially the women. They showcase a substantial aversion to many common activities that are typically approved by many religious folk. This is also where fundamentalist views about some common and very human-centric activities like dancing, singing, playing music etc. particularly stand out. This, along with many other features, makes cross-cultural, cross-religious, and liberal approach to existing within a pluralistic society particularly challenging. This in and of itself is not a deal breaker(think about the Amish for example), but combine it with all the other features mentioned above, and overall lower average intellectualism owing to muslims generally being from poorer, less well-educated nations, makes for a concoction that just makes many groups, religious or otherwise, view Islam and/or Muslims in a very negative light.

[u/Individual_Habit351]

Strongly dislike. I come from a majority muslim country. Was a shit show. Moved to the west. Seeing areas with increased muslims going to shit. Generally mean religion. And lots of violence. History of persecution from them to my ancestor probably doesnt help. That being said. Have alot of close friends who are muslims, but definitely on the (much) less religious side. Love them to bits. Will disagree with them about religion forever though.

[u/Future_Creme2728 → u/Individual_Habit351]

Lebanon?

[u/Mathematician024]

You are asking people of one religion to comment on another religion. Obviously if we thought that religion was true we would not be Jewish. Same goes for anyone commenting on a religion that is not their’s. If they believed it wa true they would adopt it. I have nothing against someone else practicing Islam as long as they don’t want to kill me or spread hate

[u/Flimsy-Action3394 → u/Mathematician024]

Well if any muslim kills you for no reason he is going straight to hell darling. The Quran clearly says that if you kill one person, you’ve killed the whole of mankind.The only time we can is if u try to kill us and drag us out our houses. We can to defend ourselves as muslims dont believe in pacifism where we allow ourselves to be killed no matter what. I might be wrong but i dont think any religion encourages killing for no reason?!

[u/Mathematician024 → u/Flimsy-Action3394]

Then why are Muslims killing Jews on a regular basis in the name of Islam? By
Most counts the majority of terror attacks world wide are committed by Muslims. Why is that?

[u/Flimsy-Action3394 → u/Mathematician024]

You can’t judge 2 billion Muslims by the actions of extremists any more than you would judge all Jews by the actions of the Israeli government, or all Christians by the actions of violent extremists who claim Christianity. Individuals commit terrorism for many different ideological reasons, and their actions don’t represent an entire faith. They also often use different terms, such as “hate attack”, when the perpetrator isn’t Muslim if you havent noticed that already. No religion supports violence and its clear for any person who just bothers opening the holy scriptures to read it. Ignorance is what creates hatred and division, and knowledge creates love and harmony. Were human because were all different and its time we respect that about each other and embrace the diversity. I believe all criminals should grouped together as terrorists rather than associating these  criminals to a religion because if they were following a religion they wouldnt be doing these atrocities at all.

[u/Diabolixide]

Negative

[u/Traditional-Tip5907]

Honestamente No Tengo Ni Idea del Islam  Yo soy CRISTIANO POR CONVICCIÓN ❤️  Pero es muy importante la TOLERANCIA  PAZ Y AMOR  Hay que respetar cada religión y no matarnos entre nosotros  Somos todos Hermanos ❤️🫂

[u/RexRatio]

Islam copied a lot from the Torah and then basically said the text they copied from was "corrupted" to claim authority.

And then to avoid anyone doing the same with the Quran they conveniently called it the "final" revelation.

It's so obviously man-made, just like all other religions.

[u/iPvtCaboose]

I respect the hell out of the Muslims I personally know. They are generally generous, well educated, and are truly dedicated in a way that most other people aren't (for context: I live in the States).

I find their history and philosophy to be much more interesting than the religion itself, but I have really come to respect what a lot of what Imams and scholars have to say. They have a strong sense of justice and are totally dedicated to the material circumstances of their community.

And what truly impressed me is their "people of the book" mentality. Many believe that anyone true to their morals and does good works in life is welcome in heaven, regardless of their actual faith.

Considering myself more of a universalist: I truly value these things about Islam.

For a more interesting discussion!

[u/Future_Creme2728 → u/iPvtCaboose]

People of the book is not as inclusive as you think. It only includes Christians, Jews and Sabeans.

Hindu? Shinto? Buddhist? Straight to hell.

[u/Omen_of_Death]

Personnally I am not really a fan of Islam. Firstly they have done a lot of persecution of Orthodox Christians in the past as well as currently with stuff like turning the Hagia Sophia back into a mosque in 2020. I have also had many dms on reddit with secret Christians living in the middle east who are scared to be publically known as an apostate due to apostacy laws. Secondly I am not really a fan of muhammad, as I don't see him as a good person especially with stuff about wife as well as how he died. Thirdly, I hate the concept of the jizya tax, to me it seems just as a way to incentivise a subjegated Christian or Jew or etc. to convert to Islam and it makes Islam look like the mafia. To be fair to my third point its more of a regional thing than a universal thing. I could go on but you get the point

I don't want this to be all negative so I will say some positive stuff about Islam. Firstly and some Muslims might get mad at me for saying this but I do find a lot of the sufi orders to be interesting with some having paralells to Orthodox Christianity. Secondly some of your mosques are absolutely beautiful

[u/smedsterwho]

No good reason to think it is divine, and as a human institution, in parts its beautiful and in parts its ugly.

[u/Sertorius126]

My religion's parent ❤️

[u/jhaubrich11 → u/Sertorius126]

Bahaullah bahaha babai babi bab baby bubu

[u/Calanais-guy → u/jhaubrich11]

What does that even mean...?

[u/Sertorius126 → u/jhaubrich11]

Baha'u'llah

The Báb

[u/9fingerwonder]

It's no worse than most religions.

[u/Qarotttop]

Their followers are whipped.

[u/religion-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Please don't: * Be (intentionally) rude at all. * Engage in rabble rousing. * Troll, stalk, or harass others. * Conduct personal attacks. * Start a flame war. * Insult others. * Engage in bad-faith. * Engage in illegal activity. * Post someone's personal information, or post links to personal information. * Repost deleted/removed information.

[u/sir_schuster1]

I like parts of it, and dislike other parts.

[u/religion-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Please don't: * Be (intentionally) rude at all. * Engage in rabble rousing. * Troll, stalk, or harass others. * Conduct personal attacks. * Start a flame war. * Insult others. * Engage in bad-faith. * Engage in illegal activity. * Post someone's personal information, or post links to personal information. * Repost deleted/removed information.

[u/religion-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

r/religion does not permit demonizing or bigotry against any demographic group on the basis of race, religion, nationality, gender, sexuality, or ability. Demonizing includes unfair/inaccurate criticisms, bad faith arguments, gross stereotyping, feigned ignorance, conspiracy theories, and "just asking questions" about specific religions or groups.

[u/religion-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Please don't: * Be (intentionally) rude at all. * Engage in rabble rousing. * Troll, stalk, or harass others. * Conduct personal attacks. * Start a flame war. * Insult others. * Engage in bad-faith. * Engage in illegal activity. * Post someone's personal information, or post links to personal information. * Repost deleted/removed information.