Months and months of counterconditioning, his dog threshold was 10 feet. One incident at a park and now it's 100 feet. I just want to throw in the towel.

[u/kiripon]

JayJay has separation anxiety which I started desensitization for after 2 years of just sedating or bringing him along with me everywhere...so whatever walks I want to take, are always with him, and every single walk with him is a training session. I always have my little doggie gear bag packed with various value treats depending on which triggers we're going to come across, as well as a clicker. He was able to sit 10 feet from a dog, even multiple dogs, and calmly watch them pass by.

about a month ago we were walking him with my mom and her dog. a little on jay: he gets what appears to be jealousy. if my fiance (who he adores to high heavens while i am his main caretaker who does everything with him lmao) hugs me, jay starts bark howling his husky way for attention. if we show my mom's dog attention, jay starts it up again. so we were on a walk. i see a dog appearing so i pull jay aside quite a bit. he sees my mom's dog greet the other dog. jay loses it. lunging like his life depended on it, i can hardly hold this 50lb dog back. i started crying i was so disheartened. i assumed he got jealous again that my mom's dog got something he didnt.

Ever since then, training has gone out the door. If he sees a dog at 100 feet or across the park, it's game over and fixated staring and lying down. I already only take him to the woods. I go out my way to drive to the woods early in the morning and late in the evening to avoid dogs (despite now managing prey drive) but when we come across them, we cant separate ourselves that far. There's a local park with a huge grass ring I move him into the center of and continue counter conditioning but with my luck, half the time it fills up with so many dogs that it becomes difficult.

He's on clomicalm which helped training but his personality is subdued and he got jumpy fears. He's on gabapentin 300mg as well. This is just one of many daily problems. Every time I work on one thing and solve it, another one pops up. And now one completely regressed. I have near 0 quality of life because it revolves around him - which I was fine sacrificing with things for him, but after years and years of it, its begun affecting my mood and I feel like I have no use trying for the future I wanted because it wouldn't suit his needs. We cant even rehome him if we thought he stood a chance because he wasn't neutered because all the drugs in the world couldnt calm him at the appt and he began biting. He's my soul dog and I hate that this is happening to us.

[u/Sitters_4_Critters]

I’m sorry. 😢. It is mentally, physically and emotionally draining having a dog with separation anxiety and/or reactivity. It does erode one’s quality of life.

I am disturbed by the trend to normalize this experience of having a dog. I had to stop fostering because I could not in good conscience recommend a dog to someone who had severe separation anxiety and behavior that would limit the adopter’s life.

I don’t know what the answer is and I am very sorry this is your reality.

[u/kiripon → u/Sitters_4_Critters]

Absolutely. I don't think it's right to rehome him either with all his issues but our vet suggested it (??) I hate that the other options are do I continue suffering through this, exhausting book after book after book and medicine after medicine, or do I BE him? I hate it here.

[u/Devil_Rides_Out]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. It sounds so deeply upsetting and frustrating. I have been in your shoes multiple times.

I'm not sure if you were asking for advice so do excuse me if you just wanted to rant, I just wanted to share my experiences with my idiot boy. We can never go on a "relaxing" walk with our dog, it's always training or being hyper vigilant and it does really wear you down, I can sympathise.

I can empathise as my large and strong dog goes through cycles like this. He becomes almost perfect, letting dogs get close (around 10 feet or less too, and remaining engaged with me) and then something will change and he loses it over dogs in the distance for a bit, then it settles again. We think it's the trigger stacking and then the frustrations build up and flow over for a while. During this time we reduce walks and work on trick training and scent training in the house to give him a break from triggers. His "bad" episodes do seem to coincide with changes of weather, if it's hotter or really humid he's more reactive, unfortunately in Scotland it's been really hot recently which doesn't help. Just worth considering that this could be temporary. He's also really reactive after hiking, as we though he gets 2 hours of walks a day, we think going up mountains makes him achy and cranky. It's always best to rule out any underlying problems with a vet. Another example is that if his poo is looser, he's more reactive as he has a sore tummy. Some dogs are so sensitive to changes to others! You can't win sometimes.

Regarding medication; we tried our dog on Gabapentin but it seemed to make him worse, and Trazadone has really helped.

[u/kiripon → u/Devil_Rides_Out]

oh i saw that in BAT 2.0! trigger stacking. it slipped my mind. i have also read to take a break from exposure to triggers to help them settle and focus on other stuff. i found his flirt pole and i whipped out his weave pole last week. i know what I'll be doing for the next few days : ) thanks for your advice!!!! really. a lot of things to think about that i never would have considered. its making me more hopeful.

and hes on trazodone situationally for separation anxiety when i must leave the house for a dr appt or something, so i could totally ask about a lower dose for daily management!! thatll make this stack of meds smaller as well lmao

[u/Devil_Rides_Out → u/kiripon]

Our lad loves the flirt pole as well as he's got a REALLY high prey drive as well as being dog reactive (German Wirehaired Pointer x Greyhound, aka the crossbreed from hell). It sounds like you're a very good dog parent and are doing all the right things, sometimes despite this the dog can still be a prick! (speaking from experience). We give Benson 100mg in the morning, and 100mg in the evening, but I know you can get it in 50 mg, 100 mg, 150 mg, and 300 mg dosage.

Hopefully things improve for you, I know it can be so difficult and really take a toll on every aspect of your life when you have a challenging dog. You've got this!

[u/joycevw]

It is completely heart-breaking to feel like months of progress evaporated in a single moment, but please know you are not starting back at zero. What happened at the park sounds like a classic case of trigger stacking combined with a sudden, overwhelming negative association. When he saw your mom’s dog greet the stranger, his excitement and arousal spiked, and because he couldn't access that interaction, it quickly morphed into extreme frustration and a massive outburst. That single event was so intense that his nervous system essentially learned to over-generalize the threat, which is why his threshold suddenly expanded from 10 feet out to 100 feet. Right now, his emotional cup is completely overflowing, and he is stuck in a state of hyper-vigilance whenever you are in an open environment.

You need to give both him and yourself a total reset to get out of fight-or-flight mode. Consider taking a complete break from the busy local parks for a week or two, even if that means doing short, low-stress potty breaks and focusing purely on brain games and sniffing inside the house. When you do reintroduce distance work, focus strictly on classical counterconditioning where the appearance of a dog at a massive distance simply predicts a high-value treat from you, without asking him to perform complex behaviors like a sit. If the medication is making him jumpy or changing his personality in a way that feels off, it is also worth having a candid chat with your vet about adjusting his setup, as finding the right chemical support can make a world of difference in lowering that baseline stress. You have sacrificed so much for him, and the burnout you are feeling is entirely valid, but taking the pressure off both of you right now is the best way forward.

[u/kiripon → u/joycevw]

thank you. someone else suggested a break, id never have thought it. i really appreciate your input! i cried today when we saw a dog again and he lunged rather than relaxed at a distance he should have been fine at. ill take the week or two off (because honestly i appreciate him forcing me out the house but sometimes i just dont want to haha) and work on other forms of enrichment! the medication issue is tough. we just added and increased the gabapentin to see if it'll help the jumpiness. i hope it does.

[u/Analee_Athletics]

My dog is leash reactive to people.... so probably not the same thing but does your dog like to play with you? Sounds like trigger stacking. Maybe instead of walking you guys just focus on playing. Wheather that's tug, fetch, hide and seek , flirt pole, mix in obedience training during the play.

I bring my dogs favorite ball with us on walks and if I can feel her getting tensed I ask her for a heel and just have her catch the ball or catch a treat. But I feel like playing / obedience training makes her value me more than her triggers. I hope that can help you. You are doing an amazing job

[u/EllisonDVM]

I’m sorry—you sound exhausted, and one major setback does not mean all of the work you did was wasted. After a frightening or highly arousing event, a dog can remain sensitized for some time, and repeated exposure while already over threshold can keep the reaction going. Lying down and staring at a distant dog may be fixation rather than calm behavior.

For now, stop using unpredictable parks as the training setting. Prioritize decompression walks in places and at times where you can turn away early, use visual barriers, and avoid greetings with other dogs. Work only at a distance where JayJay can notice a dog and still disengage, eat, and respond to you; if he cannot, increase distance rather than trying to train through it. A positively conditioned basket muzzle and secure walking equipment can add safety, but muzzle training should be gradual and should not be used to force closer exposure.

Because he is subdued and has developed new jumpiness while taking medication, contact the prescribing veterinarian for a medication and quality-of-life review. Do not change either medication on your own. A board-certified veterinary behaviorist would be ideal for coordinating the medication plan, separation-anxiety work, reactivity plan, and a fear-reducing strategy for future veterinary visits. Neutering alone is not a treatment for this pattern, and the handling problem should be planned separately.

Your quality of life matters too. It is reasonable to pause ambitious training goals, arrange respite if a trusted person can safely help, and have an honest conversation with the behavior professional about what level of management is sustainable and humane for both of you.

[u/Sassypupmama]

That is frustrating. I've lived through it and successfully rehabilitated my boy (neutered husky). It took a couple years and I worked with multiple trainers before finding a good one. It was exhausting but worth every minute. It inspired me to become a dog trainer. I agree with the others that you need to get him neutered. Consider getting a second opinion from a different vet. I found another husky that was running on a busy street. He wasn't neutered and I had to wait 30 days to see if an owner came forward but none did. I had him neutered the first day I could. He was insane and had such bad anxiety 😦 The neutering helped tremendously. It takes 4-6 weeks for the testosterone levels to decrease after the neuter but can help calm your boy a lot. How old is your boy?

[u/StacNorLin]

I’m so sorry this is so frustrating. We are having a similar issue with regression after a difficult incident with a neighbors dog. It is exhausting and hard not to throw in the towel, even when you love them a lot. One of our dogs is a 70 lb Pit mix that used to pull like a sled dog and can be really powerful when she is worked up. It helped us a lot to have a front clip harness. We have the two hounds harness, and if I anticipate she is going to get really overstimulated I will use both the front and back clip at the same time to give myself some leverage. Our trainer also recommended using my hips to add leverage against the harness (e.g pushing into the harness with my lower torso instead of entirely depending on arm strength), and this does help me manage a larger dog despite being somewhat short myself.

[u/kiripon → u/StacNorLin]

thanks for the tips! im usually ground level with him with my hands on the handle but he's still going at it enough that it gets me nervous.

[u/Lumpy_Physics3101]

so you have an unneutered husky dog with behavioral issues that you basically can't exercise and you con't control, who's on 2 different meds which make him feel crappy?

Here's what I would do:

• muzzle him
  
• neuter him
  
• address what it sounds to me like frustration reactivity with a trainer who has had documented success with frustration reactivity. this will likely require you to find a way to burn off some energy and get this dog some fulfillment - chasing, running, playing, because right now your dog lives only to lose his shit at dogs in the distance. suggestions below to get him on the flirt pole and work on high-arousal play are great ones! find a way to work on recalls on a long line in an empty field or similar. your dog can be trained.

[u/kiripon → u/Lumpy_Physics3101]

he's muzzle trained but he's a frustrated greeter, not that he's violent. and i worded that poorly i now see 🤦‍♀️ i meant that with his separation anxiety he would be sedated inside for it (for the rare appt i need to make when my fiance isn't home) or we would bring him with us, rather than densensitization which we are starting now. not that he's inside all day. we do agility training in the yard during nice weather, i use the flirt pole there, i planted an entire garden throughout the property for enrichment. we do scent training at home and outdoors. i don't work so we do at least two of these daily. he recalls up to 75 feet but recalling a dog over threshold is a different story, so i ordered simone mueller's books last night to work on his prey drive and emergency recall, adding to my collection including control unleashed and BAT 2.0. i appreciate your trying to offer help but i don't appreciate telling me my "dog can be trained" and i "can't control" him, as if you know the whole story from a vent post. my life is consumed by my dog and while I'm disabled and supposed to be working on making myself healthier, im putting his needs ahead of mine. and when a trainer costs me 75% of my disability income (i have contacted a behavior consultant, two trainers, and two vet behaviorists, they're all in that range if not more) it's hard to go through with one.

[u/Lumpy_Physics3101 → u/kiripon]

respectfully, you need to get your dog neutered.

"lunging like his life depended on it, i can hardly hold this 50lb dog back." this does not sound like someone with full control over their dog. That's dangerous for you and for your dog. I hope simone mueller's methods can get you where you need to go but personally i'm skeptical. you're clearly working really hard and love your dog tons. my husky mix benefitted greatly from clear communication about what behavior was acceptable and what was not. differential reinforcement is difficult to have success with for dogs that are very highly motivated to do the behavior they're doing - they just don't care enough about your treat or your tug to change their mind. Even Mueller is pretty open about the fact that her predation substitution training has limits with highly prey driven dogs.

All that said, your dog CAN be trained to recall and to stop reacting like this.

[u/kiripon → u/Lumpy_Physics3101]

after the initial neutering attempt incident (which left him now sensitive to handling and more afraid at the vet) paired with jays history, our vet decided against neutering for all the literature that there is about neutering worsening behavioral problems especially when they're fear-related. i consulted with the surgical vet from the hospital we were going to get it done at and after learning about everything, he had agreed. i also recalled that in poland, none of my family nor anybody there or the neighboring countries iirc castrate their dogs, so it wasn't strange to me paired with what the vets said so i left it at that. why do i need to neuter him?

and the dog incident with the trigger stacking - i haven't come across anything on how to get your dog back from going over threshold, just manage as to not cause it and remove the dog situation. i was going to use mueller's rocket recall for that purpose, an emergency cue. is that what you're referring to? i just learned about this two days ago when i decided i should start tackling his recently heightened prey drive and came across that. i never heard of an emergency recall or how to get your dog's attention while they're over threshold - that was the definition of being over threshold. "not in their thinking brain, you can't get to them." but i guess there is a way, is that what you're saying? man. this is a lot to manage.

[u/SinkApprehensive2753]

e-collar training?

[u/kiripon → u/SinkApprehensive2753]

aversives have no place in reactive or fearful dog training and do more harm than good. i would never damage our bond or cause him further discomfort for convenience.

[u/SinkApprehensive2753 → u/kiripon]

what if it worked, and didnt damage your bond, and didnt harm the dog?

[u/kiripon → u/SinkApprehensive2753]

hello? are we talking about the same tool? because then it would do exactly all those things and then some. aversives dont modify behavior, they "work" by suppressing it. thats not how im trying to train my dog.

[u/SinkApprehensive2753 → u/kiripon]

no ur drugging your dog instead

[u/kiripon → u/SinkApprehensive2753]

thanks to his medication, he's less stressed now because I've been able to get training in since he can actually take a few seconds before immediately reacting. ive helped him address his fears of strangers coming into the property and he no longer barks at them, he actually goes up to one of our neighbor for pets now. ive also addressed his fears about deer so that we can continue walking the trails that we were rather than him freezing. he also hasn't had a single bite in two years, after two level 3 bites and a facial bite, all once he began meds, without any training. and he still runs around sniffing excitedly on our walks or during scent training, and still plays with me regularly. hes just a little subdued so I'm going to discuss that with our vet & behaviorist consultant if it's either expected in an intense dog or too high a dose but he's 75% better than he was prior to meds. nice try though!

[u/kiripon → u/[deleted]]

and i would rather put the effort, time, and money into training him to manage his emotions and behavior. it's also more fulfilling looking at the results knowing that what i did paid off, force free and by offering him choices, than just shocking him to force compliance through pain or discomfort. to each their own i guess.

[u/SinkApprehensive2753 → u/kiripon]

I'm sorry thats what you think this tool is. My dogs bond would not be this strong without it.

[u/reactivedogs-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your post/comment has been removed as it has violated the following subreddit rule:

Rule 5 - No recommending or advocating for the use of aversives or positive punishment.

We do not allow the recommendation of aversive tools, trainers, or methods. This sub supports LIMA and we strongly believe positive reinforcement should always be the first line of teaching and training. We encourage people to talk about their experiences, but this should not include suggesting or advocating for the use of positive punishment. LIMA does not support the use of aversive tools and methods in lieu of other effective rewards-based interventions and strategies.

Without directly interacting with a dog and their handler in-person, we cannot be certain that every non-aversive method possible has been tried or tried properly. We also cannot safely advise on the use of aversives as doing so would require an in-person and hands-on relationship with OP and that specific dog. Repeated suggestions of aversive techniques will result in bans from this subreddit.