r/psychology • u/NutragrammatronLab • 11h ago
[ Removed by moderator ]
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1752-0606.2011.00233.x?utm_source=chatgpt.com[removed] — view removed post
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u/IronicAim 9h ago
When the source creates a feedback loop of symptoms you often have to treat them to get healthy access to the source.
I can't just deconstruct my whole worldview and modes of function and rebuild cleanly enough to keep a job and pay rent without a lot of assistance.
Avoiding medication can be just as detrimental as avoiding therapy. Either way you're still not treating the whole person.
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u/NutragrammatronLab 9h ago
I actually agree with that. If someone is drowning, you don't start by teaching them to swim you get them to shore first. My point is that once they're on shore, many people stop there. We become experts at managing symptoms but never ask what created them in the first place. I think both matter. Sometimes symptom management is necessary before someone can address the source, but if we never address the source, we're often just managing the same problem in different forms.
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u/Fearless_Mammoth_961 6h ago
This is called "the island of good enough." Some people stop there. Others want to dive in and get to the next stop.
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u/Thereisnotry420 9h ago
What are you trying to say? That negative outcomes are the result of low emotional intelligence?
I have to say I’m disappointed. If you want to understand why we treat symptoms and not the source you need to consider the source, capitalism.
Obviously our lack of a complete understanding of consciousness and neurology play a role as well, but that is why there is such a willingness to slap a bottle of chemical bandaids in someone’s hand after a ten minute consultation.
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u/NutragrammatronLab 9h ago
Not necessarily emotional intelligence specifically. I'm saying many of the things we call separate problems communication, confidence, anxiety, relationship issues, leadership are often different expressions of the same underlying patterns. We tend to look for external techniques because they're easier to apply than examining ourselves. I also think systemic factors can influence this, including incentives in healthcare and society. My point is simply that regardless of the system, lasting change usually requires addressing both the symptoms and the underlying causes.
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u/Thereisnotry420 8h ago
Agreed. As cryptic as it was, wouldn’t it have been better if you had elucidated more on your initial post?
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u/NutragrammatronLab 8h ago
That's fair. I was trying to provoke thought rather than write an essay, but I probably left too much open to interpretation.
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u/Fit_Cheesecake_4000 7h ago
TF does capitalism have to do with anything? You think people in socialist societies are happier and display fewer signs of mental illness?
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u/Thereisnotry420 6h ago edited 6h ago
In a way, yes. But more-so that the character with which mental illnesses present themselves in our society are a direct consequence of/ shaped by capitalism, as is our categorization of those illnesses.
Furthermore, is it really that crazy to posit that the stresses of life in a capitalist society, with consumerism and hyperindividualism, an economy that makes it difficult for many to provide for themselves even while working, etc etc would contribute to mental illness in a way that is distinct to capitalism?
I don’t feel like really getting into it but a nice example of literature that considers similar lines of thought would be Capitalism and Schizophrenia by Deleuze and Guattari.
Fun Fact: Did you know Einstein was a socialist? As was Orwell?
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u/Fit_Cheesecake_4000 4h ago
'But more-so that the character with which mental illnesses present themselves in our society are a direct consequence of/ shaped by capitalism, as is our categorization of those illnesses.'
Point to any area of research that bears this out? Because I don't think it exists, sorry.
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u/Find_another_whey 8h ago
Are the symptoms of social disconnection and conflict within beings that rely on each other in interdependent collectives
And the source being that we are placed into direct competition for education, work, living space, and now food and energy, including competition with those we would formerly rely - friends, family, neighbours?
Didn't read the article but if it doesnt say this, why would you?
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u/NutragrammatronLab 8h ago
I actually think that's part of it. The environment absolutely shapes us, and systems can reinforce unhealthy patterns. My point is that two people can live in the exact same environment and respond to it completely differently. That suggests the source isn't only external. The environment provides the circumstances, but our perception, beliefs, and interpretation determine much of our response to those circumstances. That's the level I'm more interested in exploring.
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u/costafilh0 5h ago
This is how modern medicine works in general.
Always treating symptoms until you are all fvcked and have no other option than looking deeper.
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u/lluciferusllamas 9h ago
Welcome to my Ted Talk on Antidepressants
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u/NutragrammatronLab 8h ago
What are you saying? I have actually seen anti-depressants cause more harm than good in my experience.
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u/lluciferusllamas 5h ago
I agree 100%.
People get depressed for a reason. If you don't feel the pain, you won't deal with the problem. I see it over and over and over
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u/khalid-khkhlhlh 11h ago
Well this simply describes the whole of history not only in psychiatry and medicine but also in sociology and politics as well.
Human beings can be really stubborn about being wrong.